|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423 |
I've been running variable Leupolds since the the original 3-9s made on NE Glisan Street, here in Portland.
In fact, I was working in a gun shop (Cosby's) when they first became available and I went over to the little Leupold factory and watched mine being made.
Probably few remember when the black widow spiders all got loose and they had to fumigate the joint. The spider web was used to make the ultra-fine crosshairs and crosshair/dot reticles. They went to platinum wire after the last spider was history.
Anyway, I have owned literally hundreds of Leupolds over the years and have never experienced a failure.
Possibly the fixed-powers are arguably tougher, but I've never managed to break a variable Leupold. And I've done a lot of horse and mule work with them. It would be hard to imagine somebody giving a scope a harder workout than I've done over the years, so I kinda consider the choice of fixed as a fashion-play ... and that's fine, everybody wants to be in-style.
Seriously, given the choice between a fixed-power and a variable Leupold, I would absolutely choose the variable ... they are simply more versatile under all hunting situations.
Blessings,
Steve
PS. Just in case some were wondering ... I've never owned a Swarovski, a Schmidt & Bender, a Leica, a Burris, a Weaver, a Redfield or a Bushnell. My first big game scope was a BalVar 8 in B&L mounts and it worked superbly ... then, I started buying Leupolds.
Hey, my Leupolds were flawless and they were made within ten miles of our home. They still are made right here and I know most of the guys and gals at Leupold. They are gunny to the max and a lot of them use variables.
Please elaborate on your experience with the FX-3 6x42. Thanks, David David, Had two on loan. Didn't particularly like them ... had back-to-back Montana antelope/Alberta mule/whitetail/moose/ Montana deer/elk hunts. Different terrain, different critters. I just like the versatility of a variable. Hey, it's an opinion and based on about sixty years of hunting and more big game animals that most hunters kill. Don't care to quote numbers, but Johnny B would possibly vouch for me  Obviously, your experience is different. With equal years afield and big game animals killed, I would respect that. Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
The 6x42 is a good scope. I have one here now and have owned them in the past. But for the life of me I don't see anything to get so excited over... 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
David, Had two on loan. Didn't particularly like them ... had back-to-back Montana antelope/Alberta mule/whitetail/moose/ Montana deer/elk hunts. Different terrain, different critters. I just like the versatility of a variable. Hey, it's an opinion and based on about sixty years of hunting and more big game animals that most hunters kill. Don't care to quote numbers, but Johnny B would possibly vouch for me Obviously, your experience is different. With equal years afield and big game animals killed, I would respect that. Steve Steve, I appreciate the response. I went a long time without having a single variable fail, the last five years I've killed several. I think the primary difference is the increased volume of shooting I currently do and the practice at extended ranges. Once I started shooting a lot more and turning the turrets I started experiencing the failures. Still the failures were only part of the push to the fixed 6. For me I think it was the repeated sudden appearance of game at 20 yards or so and being unable to find them in the scope due to the magnification being turned excessively high. Once I had resolved that I wasn't gonna touch the magnification dial again, it was a short trip to the fixed 6 - the eye relief and optics of the FX3 are significantly superior to variables set at 6x. I do have some variables on some rifles still. I can't get away from the need for higher magnification for some situations and I find a fixed higher magnification scope is definitely a liability when hunting. My primary hunting rifles are fitted with FX-3's now and I have enjoyed using them. Still, I'm a relatively new convert to the Fx-3's and it's possible I will change my mind again. Regards, David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,947
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,947 |
I appreciate the response. I went a long time without having a single variable fail, the last five years I've killed several. I think the primary difference is the increased volume of shooting I currently do and the practice at extended ranges. Once I started shooting a lot more and turning the turrets I started experiencing the failures.
I have recently wondered whether a variable is more reliable if the settings are not constantly messed with – both magnification and elevation (turrets) adjustment. Additionally what is considered a ‘failure’? If it is a matter of the zero wandering an inch or two when changing powers, then maybe this just needs to be accepted as a nuance of the low-mid level variable hunting scopes. I think of fail as my scope won’t allow me to hunt ethically.
The truth angers those whom it does not convince
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423 |
David, Had two on loan. Didn't particularly like them ... had back-to-back Montana antelope/Alberta mule/whitetail/moose/ Montana deer/elk hunts. Different terrain, different critters. I just like the versatility of a variable. Hey, it's an opinion and based on about sixty years of hunting and more big game animals that most hunters kill. Don't care to quote numbers, but Johnny B would possibly vouch for me Obviously, your experience is different. With equal years afield and big game animals killed, I would respect that. Steve Steve, I appreciate the response. I went a long time without having a single variable fail, the last five years I've killed several. I think the primary difference is the increased volume of shooting I currently do and the practice at extended ranges. Once I started shooting a lot more and turning the turrets I started experiencing the failures. Still the failures were only part of the push to the fixed 6. For me I think it was the repeated sudden appearance of game at 20 yards or so and being unable to find them in the scope due to the magnification being turned excessively high. Once I had resolved that I wasn't gonna touch the magnification dial again, it was a short trip to the fixed 6 - the eye relief and optics of the FX3 are significantly superior to variables set at 6x. I do have some variables on some rifles still. I can't get away from the need for higher magnification for some situations and I find a fixed higher magnification scope is definitely a liability when hunting. My primary hunting rifles are fitted with FX-3's now and I have enjoyed using them. Still, I'm a relatively new convert to the Fx-3's and it's possible I will change my mind again. Regards, David David, That is a beautiful and well-reasoned post. For sure, we are all learning as we go through this life. And when we lose the ability to be flexible, we lose something awfully precious. In looking back at my past rifles and rifle/scope combinations, I can see a progression that was based on gathering experiences afield. Some of the combinations now look pretty silly ... a pre-'64 Winchester M-70 Varmint with a BalVar24 that weighed about 13 pounds was hauled around by a teenage Steve and I killed tons of mule deer bucks with it. Have a GREAT DAY, my friend. Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
I have recently wondered whether a variable is more reliable if the settings are not constantly messed with – both magnification and elevation (turrets) adjustment.
Additionally what is considered a ‘failure’? If it is a matter of the zero wandering an inch or two when changing powers, then maybe this just needs to be accepted as a nuance of the low-mid level variable hunting scopes. I think of fail as my scope won’t allow me to hunt ethically.
djb, I can only speculate as the increased round count and increased dial turning have gone hand in hand. I do believe that they are intertwined as the failures I have seen are typically found when turning the turrets (scope doesn't return to zero or track appropriately to new zero). For the scopes that I have killed, once they quit tracking, they won't hold zero either, even if you leave the knobs alone. The first failure I had of this type was with a Bushnell 6500 that I had found to be "completely reliable" for well over 1500 rounds. Groups which had been sub MOA started opening up, rifle became a 2.5+ MOA Shooter, the POI started to drift. I was so certain that "the scope wasn't the problem", that by the time I figured it out I had lost all confidence in the rifle and subsequently sold it. That experience kind of tainted me. When I see a scope start having any minor tracking problems now, it comes off for a trip to the service department. If it does it again, the repaired/replacement scope is sold and I try something else. So far I have had zero failures with the FX-3's and zero failures with the SWFA SS's (variables and fixed). I'm really hoping the FX-3's don't start making me doubt them, they have become a favorite! David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,944 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,944 Likes: 3 |
I've heard of people who were wristwatch killers. I resemble that remark. My iPhone is the best pocket watch I've ever owned.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,947
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,947 |
Canazes9, I agree with everything you have written.
Confidence is HUGE in any performance based discipline from hunting, to sports, or even asking out the ladies……Due to this I am drawn more to the fixed powers as I get older. I have tried to simulate the 6X on various rifles and it is just more magnification than I want for how I usually hunt - usually in the thick stuff and seldom sitting over large open areas. I put a Leupold fixed 4 on my 308 backpack rifle last year and really enjoyed it and the peace of mind when a couple hours walk from the trailhead; I took a cow elk at about 40 yds with it.
Most of my variables are set at 4X and I doubt I would need to turn them up until beyond 200 yds. I guess I am ‘lucky” and have never had to shoot much beyond 150 yds. For actively hunting (ie walking) 4x is about right for me, but for targets or load development 10X is my preference. I seldom want/need any other magnification levels in between.
The truth angers those whom it does not convince
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,893
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,893 |
I'll play. I've loooonnngggggg flogged without ANY mercy,on a goodly sized herd of Reupold 6x42's. Yep...that is THE Definition of "gross understatement". To this day,NO other glass begins to offer what it do,at the weight it do it. None. It has the tube length to mount anywhere on anything,it has the eye-relief to fend Boomers of Magnificent Magnitude(largely shot my 378Wby to destruction,with said glass),it's eyebox and ease of acquisition are beyond legendary,it's erector travel rather copious for 1" tubes(60MOA+) and nothing in it's realm is even nearly as fhuqking tough. Nothing. And curiously enough,the dirty bastards track rather well and for countless inputs('nother understatement). Plus as an aside,I get to play in things knowed as "topography" and "weather"...daily. Hint. Now in piece meal,none of them thangs may shake the earth,but in compilation,they kick the schit outta all 1" offerings. They are a fhuqking marvel,given their trite mass and that's sandbagging more than a smidge. I've never knowed anyone,who's shot/got as much glass as I and to the chagrin of many,Safe Queens ain't my gig. I've broken more schit,than most could begin to fathom. 'Nother hint. I admittedly get a kick outta all these "Hard Use" stories and unashamedly do not fret a critique by me, as the stacks of worn out boots,pile of shot out spouts and broken/bruised stocks...quickly begin to paint poignant peectures,regarding what will reliably take a lick and more importantly,why. The fewer moving parts,the warmer/fuzzier things get. As per always,the proof is in the pudding. Hint. I've shot with alotta different guys,from alotta different backgrounds and alotta different levels of experience and when the dust settles,all have plunged 6x42 Reupold after trigger time. I simply wish I could accurately convey the magnitude of same,as I'm talking 100's and 100's of scopes purchased,due solely to gunning same in the flesh,in extrapolation to other 1" offerings. Hint. I've said it a bajillion times,in that "Joe Average assuredly ain't very fhuqking bright" and "he is over headstamped,under boolited and over glassed"...as these Threads eloquently attest,though obliviously.(grin) I'll save The MQ Fixed Fhuqker Talk for later,as these gals couldn't begin to savvy. If only to add a smidge,there are no "shooting hours" here on The Milford and such critiques do add to the fray. Nor do we get to travel by boat,plane or the like. Laffin'! The Flatlanders and Texans are always the easiest to sort out of the Clueless Crowd. Bless their hearts! I should dangle a pic of my newest rifle,as it has about 97 Lifetimes of wear on it already and the Red LockTIGHT runneth over,if only as per always. It's on my shoulder and in my mitts DAILY,as my 6 months of vacation a year allows. This schit is always funny! Just threw it in the backyard(yes...literally) for some Indoctrination Chronicles. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/912/zWUqe9.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/913/l0jrSV.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/540/PxzPGX.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/SK0cAT.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/540/3P0Plu.jpg) It's just shy of 1500rds and still Agg'ing in the realm of CRAZY Good,less having seen as much as a patch. Last month. ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/661/lfvzfN.jpg) Coupla days ago. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/910/7BeEwn.jpg[/img]Last Fall. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/537/fTL9hO.jpg[/img]Saw this guy yesterday and though a mile away,he smelled like 22-inches to me. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/901/kGhJmt.jpg[/img]Film at 11:00. Laffin'! (1000 more words) [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/837/w1nk.jpg[/img][img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/841/qm0c.jpg[/img]Gotta go Cast & Blast...prior to Mom's Day Dinner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,893 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,893 Likes: 12 |
Canazes9, I agree with everything you have written.
Confidence is HUGE in any performance based discipline from hunting, to sports, or even asking out the ladies……Due to this I am drawn more to the fixed powers as I get older. I have tried to simulate the 6X on various rifles and it is just more magnification than I want for how I usually hunt - usually in the thick stuff and seldom sitting over large open areas. I put a Leupold fixed 4 on my 308 backpack rifle last year and really enjoyed it and the peace of mind when a couple hours walk from the trailhead; I took a cow elk at about 40 yds with it.
Most of my variables are set at 4X and I doubt I would need to turn them up until beyond 200 yds. I guess I am ‘lucky” and have never had to shoot much beyond 150 yds. For actively hunting (ie walking) 4x is about right for me, but for targets or load development 10X is my preference. I seldom want/need any other magnification levels in between.
Most often a variable scope set to 6x doesn't give a good representation of the ease of "getting behind" a Leupold 6x42.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,944 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,944 Likes: 3 |
My first chosen optic for my first hunting rifle in 280 Remington was the M8 6x42. I killed a lot of animals with that rig and never had need of anything else.
Once I was introduced to Swarovski I began to purchase their variables as the fixed power 6x's were scarce. I really felt skeptical of the variables but I have since warmed up to them. I have yet to have a failure of the 6 or so that I own.
They are all set on 6x and have never moved from that setting.
If Leupold offered a 6x42 with the optical quality & light weight of Swarovski, Leupold would dominate my optic purchases.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,223 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,223 Likes: 26 |
Which Swarovski optical quality level do you want, Z3 or the bigger scopes?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
I'll play. I've loooonnngggggg flogged without ANY mercy,on a goodly sized herd of Reupold 6x42's. Yep...that is THE Definition of "gross understatement". To this day,NO other glass begins to offer what it do,at the weight it do it. None. It has the tube length to mount anywhere on anything,it has the eye-relief to fend Boomers of Magnificent Magnitude(largely shot my 378Wby to destruction,with said glass),it's eyebox and ease of acquisition are beyond legendary,it's erector travel rather copious for 1" tubes(60MOA+) and nothing in it's realm is even nearly as fhuqking tough. Nothing. And curiously enough,the dirty bastards track rather well and for countless inputs('nother understatement). Plus as an aside,I get to play in things knowed as "topography" and "weather"...daily. Hint. Now in piece meal,none of them thangs may shake the earth,but in compilation,they kick the schit outta all 1" offerings. They are a fhuqking marvel,given their trite mass and that's sandbagging more than a smidge. I've never knowed anyone,who's shot/got as much glass as I and to the chagrin of many,Safe Queens ain't my gig. I've broken more schit,than most could begin to fathom. 'Nother hint. I admittedly get a kick outta all these "Hard Use" stories and unashamedly do not fret a critique by me, as the stacks of worn out boots,pile of shot out spouts and broken/bruised stocks...quickly begin to paint poignant peectures,regarding what will reliably take a lick and more importantly,why. The fewer moving parts,the warmer/fuzzier things get. As per always,the proof is in the pudding. Hint. I've shot with alotta different guys,from alotta different backgrounds and alotta different levels of experience and when the dust settles,all have plunged 6x42 Reupold after trigger time. I simply wish I could accurately convey the magnitude of same,as I'm talking 100's and 100's of scopes purchased,due solely to gunning same in the flesh,in extrapolation to other 1" offerings. Hint. I've said it a bajillion times,in that "Joe Average assuredly ain't very fhuqking bright" and "he is over headstamped,under boolited and over glassed"...as these Threads eloquently attest,though obliviously.(grin) I'll save The MQ Fixed Fhuqker Talk for later,as these gals couldn't begin to savvy. If only to add a smidge,there are no "shooting hours" here on The Milford and such critiques do add to the fray. Nor do we get to travel by boat,plane or the like. Laffin'! The Flatlanders and Texans are always the easiest to sort out of the Clueless Crowd. Bless their hearts! I should dangle a pic of my newest rifle,as it has about 97 Lifetimes of wear on it already and the Red LockTIGHT runneth over,if only as per always. It's on my shoulder and in my mitts DAILY,as my 6 months of vacation a year allows. This schit is always funny! Just threw it in the backyard(yes...literally) for some Indoctrination Chronicles. It's just shy of 1500rds and still Agg'ing in the realm of CRAZY Good,less having seen as much as a patch. Last month. Coupla days ago. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/910/7BeEwn.jpg[/img]Last Fall. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/537/fTL9hO.jpg[/img]Saw this guy yesterday and though a mile away,he smelled like 22-inches to me. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/901/kGhJmt.jpg[/img]Film at 11:00. Laffin'! (1000 more words) [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/837/w1nk.jpg[/img][img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/841/qm0c.jpg[/img]Gotta go Cast & Blast...prior to Mom's Day Dinner. 'Stick An education as always! Last picture didn't load for me, when I click the link it's a scope weighing the (incorrect) catalog weight of the FX-3 6x42 - what is that scope? Thanks, David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,383
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,383 |
Looks like the Adjustable Objective version of the 6x42.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,253
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,253 |
Hi Guys, I want to tell you guys about a Leupold scope Ive fallen in love with by pure chance, I bought a 65 or 66' Win mod 70 with the red W in grip cap in .225 win at a bargain for use as a truck gun, I have been a Leupold guy for many,many years, I may own 3 older Redfields, 4 or 5 German glass scopes and about 35 Leupolds, now that my eyes are 61 only 3 are non AO scopes all are 40,42 or whatever on the AO end, Ive just never liked the looks nor needed the 50 mm scopes plus I like em as close to barrel as possible,I like 20 dollar bill close!
OK back to the real story, this old win 70 came with a fixed, 8X ,AO duplex scope.... Dog Dam if Ive not fell heads over heels in love with that combo! I started looking around and buying so far 4 are all I can come up with! For whatever reason Leupold must have made them for just a few years?? Folks that have them seem to want top dollar for them as well. I am a loyal type fellow when I go with a product.. Die hard Winchester, very die hard pre 64, Leupold all day for my money as they just plain work for me plus American, they stand behind,fix their Boo -Boos, I do have and old 36X with an 1/8th dot that had gotten very dark and a little fuzzy, It probably needs a trip back for clean and tune up, I use it to see what each and every gun I buy 'will do' just my 2C, very best WinPoor
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,655 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,655 Likes: 2 |
I haven't had issues with a ton of scopes, and I still prefer 1.?-6 variables for most of my woods hunting, but they generally stay at 1.? Or 6x, and nothing in between, depending on conditions. My go anywhere/elsewhere rigs wear some fixed 6x, but right now, I'm liking the Sightron over the FX, but it's just personal preference, not really logical justification. Specs are very similar.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859 |
I don't own an FX-3 6x, but its the next scope I will buy. Have a .308 that needs a scope and thats what its getting. I too wondered if 6x would be sufficient for shooting at distance. I had my .243 out a while back on a grazing reserve where I could see a long way. Had rocks set up out to 700, and tried it on 6x. No problem on football size rocks at that range. I'm not good enough to be hunting at those ranges, but I know that 6x isn't going to be the limiting factor for me.
I need to sell off a Savage 99, then the FX will be on its way. Looking forward to trying it out.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,944 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,944 Likes: 3 |
Which Swarovski optical quality level do you want, Z3 or the bigger scopes? Z3's have served me well. I always utilize 40-44mm objectives. Don't care for anything larger. My only Leupold 6x42 was an M8. Comparing it to the Z3, I was an instant convert. I bought a 280 AI with a Swarovski 6x42 recently. I was unable to find one of those when I sought to replace the Leupold. Now that I have the Swarovski I can see it would have been the excellent choice I would have expected.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 1 |
I have the M8 6x. And the main reason is when I built my rifle I was in college with little money. I got the scope for $100.
Since then I haven't seen a good reason to change it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,742
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,742 |
Call to Leupold confirms FX3's have multi-piece tube. Also Alumina lens cover for the VX6 42mm have different threads so they won't work on FX3's.
|
|
|
|
|
560 members (222Sako, 12344mag, 007FJ, 2500HD, 219DW, 10gaugeman, 65 invisible),
1,831
guests, and
1,213
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,073
Posts18,521,691
Members74,024
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
