Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting New RAR Predator 6.5 Creed.... UBER Ghetto: 700 yards for $700...

So admittedly..... most of my remaining dignity has been stripped long before now.... I figured why not kill it all.... and grab a RAR?

I've talked a little trash on these rifles.... so when I saw one of these Predators in 6.5 Creed for only $379... I put my money where my mouth had already been.



Hell, for the dough, even if it only shot an inch.... and felt like a milk jug.... it would be a great deer/pronghorn/elks rifle for the kids... and cheap loaner.

Slapped a 12x SS on it... so as to be UBER.... and took it out yesterday. I grabbed 1 box of factory 140 HPBT loads, Shot one round at 40 yards.... adjusted the scope, and sent 3 rounds at 100.... you can see how that went (.375"). OK... things are getting interesting, but I know enough not to fall for the single 3-shot group banana in the tail-pipe... however, it's a good start... especially with factory ammo that can be had for $20/box.



Took a look at the dope, spun it for 300 (+2.2).... clang. 400... clang. 500...... clang. 600? why not........ clang. So I'm 8 rounds deep into this gun.... and have already made first round hits at 300-600.... with a sub-$400 rig.

I did a little research and loaded up some 'factory dupe' loads... though I switched the powder to IMR 4350 and went with a WLR primer. I brought those along just to see if they'd shoot.... second 100 yd group (5-shots, .9"). Guessed the velocity at 2700, spun in 3.9 Mils... and let 3 fly at the 600 yard plate.... here they are on video.

[video:youtube]1YOTmkws60g[/video]

After shooting those 140 Amax handloads, I shot the rest of the factory loads at 300-600... and never missed. Then took the 140 Amax looking for a coyote. Didn't find a volunteer, but did shoot rocks out to a little over 800... and was amazed at the level of performance I was getting for the money.... it won't be displacing the Tikka CTR .260, but it only cost half the money. I'm looking forward to some 123's vs. Prairie Dogs...

Nice!

Looks like good fun on the cheap. That model come with a 20" barrel? If so it'll be interesting to compare velocities between it and your Tikka 260.

It's a 22" barrel. I'm looking forward to 123 Scenar/Amax at 2900+....

I couldn't get 2700 in the CTR with the 140 Amax and H4350...

Should add..... Barrel was broken in properly using the: Shoot 36 rounds then clean method. Fouling wasn't anything I'd not consider normal.

Next stop, Boyds, for a proper laminated stock and a Savage metal trigger guard. I got the Heritage style for my RAR-P in 204.

2nd stop, your favorite internet vendor for a Timney trigger.

3rd stop, RAR-P nirvana?

Very Nice.

I think JB wrote in one of his articles about long range shooting that "one could shell out a few bucks for a ruger or savage whatever model in 6.5 creedmore and add a case of Hornady factory ammo and just go shoot and have fun"..... where is the Loonyism in that though.
Dogshooter just proved this and with a SWFA Scope the package was probably what 800 bucks?????
Kinda makes lot of of guns on the market look silly. Heck a Remington needs that much money in work just to be usable most of the time.......

P.S. Dogshooter, do not clean for a while and report back on how long it takes for the fouling to cause inaccuracy, then the real loony's will be along to blast you about improper gun care and the accuracy left on the table.....

Dog, I done the same thing a couple weeks ago. Only have had mine out to 700, with a Vortex 6-20 off one of my AR's . I did spring for a EGW 20 moa rail tho..... And then did a paint job on it.

Very nice! What rings are you using on that rifle?

Thanks

EGW low splits

Appreciate that...

What caliber?

Nice paint job. I did my RAR-P in 223 in satin Hunter Green with matte sand splatter all covered with clear satin.

Yes, almost every McMillan stock that I've ever bought has cost more than any of the five RAR-Ps that I've bought.

6.5 Creed like Dogshooters. The name Apollo, however, was taken a few months ago by my Hawkeye Predator 6.5 creed.....

Don,

when it comes to stock painting, you are quite the Rembrandt.

very very nice sir...

wyo.... I just did the math, and I came up with $689 total in the whole thing. That includes tax, CO's lovely $7 "background check fee", 1 box of factory ammo, and the SS Scope/Rings that I bought off some college kid headed to Alaska....

The factory loads I shot are under $200/case right now on Midway....

Don... I dig the paint job. Mine is sitting in a little bedding right now and wearing a new paint job. Though mine is far more utilitarian. Don't think I'll need the 20 MOA rail... as I've got a skoosh under 20 MILs to play with.... plus the other 10 on the glass.

I figured "Apollo" was kinda run of the mill.... but "Nicene Creedmoor" didn't have the same ring to it....

What loads you shooting?

Just loaded up a couple 123 Scenar ladders to see what we can see...

Hey. You can use 'Apollo'. I call mine 'Polly', for short, anyhoo.....

I had 17 mils on the turret, and another 8 on the reticle, and was still WAY short on the 1970 yard gong at the Icebreaker.....Montucky Hold-over still works, tho.

still running 140 amax factory loads. When they're gone, I have a bunch of 140 Bergers to burn up.

I think when I run outta elevation...that's far enough. Though it is fun to send those mile+ shots. I should be able to get to 1600 yds on the turret alone, much further than I normally shoot.

Couple measurements for those interested:

Magazine length: 2.85"
140 Amax lands: 2.870" COAL (2.205" BTO)
123 Amax to the lands: 2.855" COAL (2.205" BTO)
123 Scenar to the lands: 2.825" COAL (2.195" BTO)

Can't run either of the Amax in the lands... but that hasn't been a problem in the past. I'll still seat the Scenars back a little, as there wasn't but .1" of bullet in the neck at 2.825"

What is the magazine situation on the Predator?

If you are going with savage trigger guard, does that mean the rifle is a blind mag?

No, the Savage metal trigger guard just replaces the RAR's plastic unit. A one for one swap, just like the Marlin X gun guys swapping their plastic trigger guards for the metal units from the Marlin rimfire 981s or 983s.

got it, thanks.

On my 45 minute commute, I keep pondering what it would take to make one into a blind mag.

Thought someone already worked it out.

Holy Shiit. Who'd have thought? A $700 LR rig. You could throw in a Boyd's, sell it as a package for a grand and still make 20%. LR package 1000 donuts...

I don't want to take market share from Flave Precision.....

Not sure why everyone is so quick to yank the stock. A few minutes with a file, a little bedding, some plastic bags, and a little paint will fix them right up.

As is.... it'll get a lot of play....

What are the plastic bags for?

Packin home the groceries....

Seriously though.... I stuff them into the hollow stock for a little acoustic dampening.

Dogshooter, I'd appreciate a simple, but detailed instruction of your few minutes with the file, bedding, and plastic bags. I may be attempting something similar. Any advice you can offer is appreciated, actually.

Jason.... I didn't so much bed the action, as bed the stock. As folks have eluded to here... the stock seems to be the weakest point of the gun. As far as ergos go, it's fine... it's just that it's flimsy... as I'm sure you know. I took a file to all the molding lines in the stock... some of them you could nearly shave with. Then sanded it a little to provide a little adhesion area for the Krylon.

It seems to me, that the way the rifle is attached to the stock, via the V-Lugs, is a pretty good system. I didn't really experience any shifts in POI while beating the crap out of it for 3 hours... so I'm convinced the action will stay where it's told in the stock.

The stock staying away from the pipe is another story, and I felt it was the biggest cause of the little fliers (.5-.75moa) I was seeing at 400-600. It would pound a couple in the middle... then a wierd high right hit. Not enough to miss... but certainly outside the majority of other shots.

I took a rasp to the inside of the barrel channel to relieve it, especially on the left side. I could see almost immediately that there was no way to get enough gap, because the stock was flexing back by the action... right at the front screw. So I mixed up some JB Putty, roughed up the action, and stuffed the putty in about the first 1.5" of the barrel channel from the lug forward. I sprayed down the action with OneShot, and snugged it into the stock just like I was gonna shoot it. Let it dry a couple hours, popped it out, trimmed it up, and viola... no more stock touching barrel without some serious effort. Don't know that it'll help with the "accuracy"... but it should help with the consistency. I know some folks will bemoan the use of the putty.... but come-on man... it's a plastic f'n stock... if I'm in a situation where the JB Putty is failing... the stock has long since melted.

Thank you Dogshooter! That was more detail than I expectd, and exactly what I wanted to know. I know exactly what you're talking about with the flimsy stock. I've gotten vertical stringing on everything I've shot so far. Not bad, but taking away the stringing, it'd be a half-moa shooter. I like what you did there with the putty. Part of the magic of the cheap rifle is the ability to 'redneck' it guiltlessly. I'll play around with a few things this week when I can get out next, and will likely try something like what you've done there to add stiffness to the stock.

I appreciate it, man.

cool posts. nice read.

I have had good luck using neoprene O-rings around barrels to isolate the barrel from the stock on rifles with mannlicher-style stocks and on rifles with flexible stocks. The neoprene is soft/flexible, so it doesn't produce a "hard" pressure point against the barrel.

Good info Dogshooter. Thanks for posting it.

I used Oatey putty on my milkjug RAR stock, but only captured the forward portion of the receiver. The Oatey is white in color in the first pic below. The grey putty is Loc-tite but doesn't touch the barrel.

On the Boyd's plywood, I captured the nut and shank, along with the receiver but the system was sensitive to action screw torque so I removed the nut & shank bedding, leaving only the forward portion of the receiver captured (second pic).

The plywood stock adds enough mass where shooting it well is noticeably easier than the milk-jug. But my RAR is a 223 All-Weather with the lighter barrel taper.

J

Forgot to mention that barrel heat seemed to affect POI with the nut and shank captured. But I was ripping thru the handloads at a fast pace.

With the 223 All-Weather in the plywood, its a slick shooter for relatively low bucks. Pic below is at 490y. The 3-shots upper left were with a slight wind. 3 of the 4 in the green were shot when it was calm. Not sure about the 2 in the lower left but the string was done pretty quick.

I've only gone to ~600y thus far, but will stretch it out a little more this week.

Looks good 4th.... glad I'm not the only one who'll use a littlw redneck engineering.

I know you went Timney too.... worth is?

What's the weight difference between the factory stock and the Boyds? I've got a couple of the Prairie Hunters for SA Rems, and they seem solid... but chunky.

Great thread.

Huntsmann22, how does the accuracy of the American Predator match up with the Hawkeye predator?

Thanks!

My Boyds Heritage laminated stock weighs 39 ounces and the factory RAR-P stock weighs 23.4 ounces, so just under 1 lb. more. For me, the improved egrs more than off-set the additional weight, but it is now just over 9 lbs. with a Weaver V16 in Warne fixed Maxima rings. Not a vertical hunting rifle, but it never really was.

The Heritage style is, pretty much, the Prairie Hunter with a more slender forearm. Sort of the Boyds version of the Remington Hunter vs. the McM Hunter. I have several Prairie Hunters, but think that I might buy a couple more Heritage style stocks for my RAR-Ps in 223 and 6.5 Creed, maybe in blackjack and coyote laminate colors.

Can't see spending $100 on an extra pound of wood.... but I have low expectations of this rifle.

It'll be vedy interesting to see how it stacks up against rigs costing five to ten times as much down at the SRM in a couple weeks.

Got 5lbs of RE17 today to play with too....

$113.50, plus shipping, pays for different ergs, the weight is free. Since the RAR requires a trigger guard, magazine latch, longer screws, and recoil lugs, the base cost is a little higher than the average Boyds stock.

As I posted elsewhere, the RAR-P has the potential to become the sort of project that starts off as an economical shooter and, little by little, it becomes a money pit. Add $120 for a Boyds stock. Add $120 for a Timney trigger. Add $40 for a different Picatinny rail. Etc., etc., etc.

What is the "SRM"?

SRM is 'Sporting Rifle Match'..... I bet the average rig down there costs about $6000-$7000 for gun/glass/mounts.....

http://sportingriflematch.com

I think I'm going to run this rig down there in two weeks.... it would really suck to drop $7500 on a platform, and anally prepare each round.... then watch a guy make the same hits all day long running a $750 rig and factory ammo. I know one thing..... it'll be the cheapest rig on the line.

Where is 2MG to line this out????

LAFFIN.....

Few more measurements:

Again, Mag Box: 2.850"

To Lands:
136 Lapua Scenar-L: 2.885 COAL (2.215" BTO)
130 Nosler AccuBond: 2.815 COAL (2.205" BTO)
130 Berger VLD-H: 2.950 COAL (2.195" BTO)

Horn. Factory 140 Amax: 2.820" COAL (2.140" BTO)... this is approximately .065" off the lands in my rifle
Win. Factory 140 HPBT: 2.820" COAL (2.165" BTO).... this is .050 off the lands in my rifle

The Timney is great. They advertise 1.5 pounds, and I was willing to accept that... but mine goes MUCH lower. I don't have a good scale at home but I'm guessing its easily under a pound. No creep, and no over-travel.

Raton is just down I-25 from one of my MIL's ranches. Maybe I'll run down there the next time I'm out there.

Should be interesting how this rifle works out.
Pretty good so far.

This is just sick. Wonder if Darrik has one in stock...

Shoot him a PM..... He put my name on a .243 a couple days ago.

Grabbed a box of 140 Factory Amax to see WTF.... I'll try to get a few on film once the monsoons stop....

I hear ya on the rain. I had 3.75" at my house on Monday night....upwards of 5" where I deliver. It had sucked the last cpl of days...

You've been is a drought for how many years? That much rain should make some grass and grass will make ranchers happy, happy, happy.

Well, that text just cost me money....

took off the vortex and put on the LRHS from the hawkeye yesterday, and sighted in. While feeding my camels this mornin', I seen a jackass rabbit going across the field. Run back to the truck and grabbed the sticks and Creed. Whomped one, and 4 others took off. Was able to get 3 in 4 shots......

I can't believe you missed one. You need lighter sticks.

Your pastures must be as green as they have been in a couple of years.

yup. 6 inches of rain, just this month

Was out this morning too.... and can't believe how wet and green the prairie is. There's lakes in places where I've never even seen water.... and the pronghorn are looking awful fat and happy.

Saw a couple bunnies too.... though I gave them all a pass. We used to see jacks up here all the time.... but I've only seen a couple in the past few years, so I tend to give them a pass anymore.

Shot some factory 140 Amax today, it shot ok at 100 (1"ish).... but it still hasn't missed at 300-600. In fact, even a couple rednecks we ran into went 4 for 4 at 500.... and they'd never shot half that far.

Shot some 123 Scenars also.... they look mighty promising. More to come once I get chores done....

We were out too. If it gets dry all of a sudden, there's gonna be some hellacious grass fires.

Squirrel huntin:



Coyotes didn't like it when we got near their den:






Hard to see, but there's 4 of them in this pic, watching us to make sure we're leaving. One in the center, just to the right of that clump, two to the right and further away, and one over near the left edge. As we were leaving, I made a feint like I was walking up the hill to their den, and all four got up and started toward us.

Good read...

That being said I just ordered a RAR Predator .308 and SWFA 16x.

Im a pretty new shooter so hopefully this rig will make me look smart on paper . Hopefully it doesn't make me regret my first purchasing a Rem 700 SPS Tactical .223

Finding one of those RAR in 6.5 is not easy. After reading this and having one in .223 I have been looking all week.

I got mine from Cabela's, but Arms & Ammo in Fremont, NE, has had them in stock. A&A advertises as "oneclickshooting" on GB.

Another GB seller that has had them is "bwk9" operating out of Anita, IA.

My 6.5 Creed RAR puts every weight bullet I've tried into the .7's or less. No bedding. No trigger job. Nothing. It flat out shoots. I've got 120,130,140 loads that all go into the .5's......

I've got mine down at the SRM in New Mexico right now..... we'll see in a couple hours how $750 with of rifle running factory ammo stacks up against the $5k-$10k rigs.

Go get 'em, dog.

Can't wait to hear how you do. I love it when rifles I can afford actually shoot. I've overlooked the RAR so far. My bad. But, the kids need more guns. mtmuley

Kick Butt, Dog.
I like budget underdog rifles too!

As long as you don't have to recrown it while you are there you should be alright.............




I keed!! I keed!!

Spill your guts man.....

Update when I get a chance.

Short version.... I got my ass kicked, only hitting 31/60.

Something happened with the set-up somewhere around the fourth stage, and I was chasing some elevation issues the rest of the day. Investigation pending....

sounds like you got yer money's worth..........grin

Not sure what I got.... except for frustrated.

Good news was: it didn't miss anything I shot at during warm-up in the morning, then cleaned the first stage (12" rounds 550-690), I had a miss on the next stage because I shot at the wrong plate. So, it did hit 15 straight to start the day.... out to 1/2 mile. 15 straight would be one heck of a season shooting at Big Game and coyotes.

It's a bit unfair to treat an 8lb gun the way I ran it, and expect it to hang with guns that probably average twice that... and cost 10 times as much. It can for the fist few laps..... but then the weaknesses are exposed..... in the system and the shooter.

Do you get enough time between stages for the barrel to cool, or is it pretty much steaming as you get further into it?

Kinda depends.... there was a couple stages where the spent brass was too hot to touch. Shooting last at one stage, means you shoot fisrt on the next stage. If that next stage is only 30-75 yards away..... then you're starting with a hot gun.... especially when running a sporter weight(ish) barrel. There are times when you've got a mile hike between stations.... so everything should be back to ambient by then.

I know I 'cooked' more than a couple rounds, and that certainly could have led to several of the misses high.

I'll tell ya one thing Don...

you are certainly a Rifle Stock/Rattle Can Rembrandt...

VERY Nice looking rig as always...

You should hear his poetry, he's a regular on the cowboy poetry slam circuit.

Did you have any pressure issues with the "cooked" ammo?

Nothing that showed signs of excessive pressure.

Truth be told, the rifle could have been hammering all day.... and it could have simply been a tough course handing me my ass.

I'm working on a little write up on the whole thing.....Good, bad, and ugly. But, I wanna chance to shoot the rifle again before making any judgements.