Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters AR advice

My son 15 is interested in shooting an AR, and I'm looking to purchase one for us to shoot together and for him to ultimately keep. We hunt and shoot regularly, but this will be the first AR. I have read a lot and discovered lots of differing information on quality. The only hunting I anticipate with it would be opportunistic shots at hogs. Quality is the main criteria. Most shooting will be offhand or with an improvised rest b/n 25 and 100y. I would like to use a 1-4x scope for familiarity. What brand/model/configuration, i.e. rock river or colt? Adjustable stock seems like a good idea, so does a 1:7 twist to enable use of heavy bullets. I don't mind spending $1200 or so, but don't want to go much higher. Are the cheap ($750) options even worth considering? What is recommended zero distance?

Not a writer. Get a Colt if you feel you need a real AR. For the money, a Palmetto State Armory is every bit as good as the Colt. PSA lowers are $129 (today's special) and uppers were $199 last week (another special). Had to add a bolt carrier group and charging handle to the upper to make it go.

I have two Colt's and two Rock Rivers... am just as satisfied with the PSA rifles.

Some say PSA uses FN for their uppers and lowers.

Then again, I am not a writter so take it for what it's worth

geo

My suggestion is to go with a PWS MK1 or MK2. I have 2 (MK118 556 and a MK220 308) and my brother has two as well. All are extremely high quality and require no after-market work to run flawlessly. They come from the factory with all the good parts (MAGPUL etc) already installed.

The PWS uses a long-stroke piston action vs the original gas-impingement system. Basically you are getting the accuracy potential/ability of a high end AR with the rugged bullet-proof operating system of the AK. They shoot great and the long-stroke piston is the way to go. Recoil is very mild even with full power 308 loads. The 556 is so soft shooting. Even Armalite themselves is now working with PWS on using their piston design of the AR.

Having fired a few of the Short-stroke piston AR's (Sig, Ruger, LWRC) I found the long stroke-piston to be much nicer on recoil. Its a gentle push vs a sharp slap.

In my experience you should stay away from the cheap versions. They will cost you way more in the long run in upgrades and you still will have a lower quality barrel and looser tolerances.

If you don't want a piston action for some reason (try one, the piston really is better), the LMT's I have seen seemed to have the highest quality on the gas-impingement rifles.

Its possible to custom scratch build a nice AR using quality parts, but I think you need to be more AR-experienced before trying that option. In your shoes, I think it would be better to just buy a nice quality rifle fully set up and ready to rock.

Mark in GA

Hey Geo, the Georgia boys are teaming up answering today. Ha Ha....

Mark in GA

It's a good day!

CDNN currently has a Colt at $800 - I bought one, for a little less money several months ago, for a parts kit to rebarrel in .204.

For a hog or game hunting rifle (not a plinker/varmint) I might buy a first tier - better than Colt - from a maker of better than mil-spec to get something better - for hog hunting a Wilson (or equivalent) in a larger than .224 bore and pay the price.

I don't doubt that it's possible to spend less than a Colt and get a bargain but for what it costs in time and research I'd go ahead and buy a Colt when the Colt is cheap enough.

Many of the Colts and others at CDNN and elsewhere for a little more money can be worth the difference if the features are wanted and still stay under $1000 depending on local transfer costs. Colt is having its troubles staying afloat and there should be some bargains out there.

For an AR I'd stick very very close to the original, direct gas, AR platform unless there's a particular reason to vary. There are arguments for a piston system but I'm a believer in starting with a cleaner sheet of paper to make drastic changes so my piston style is from IMI.

Ask this on the AR forum here. A LOT of informed AR shooters that have shot the AR more than a few rounds... wife and I used to run 20K a year through them.

Folks there might be as informed or more so than some gun writers on the subject.

My personal input, from having burned out many barrels...

Depends on exactly what you want.. if MOA or a bit more is all you need in accuracy, and you are reloading, the just about any old AR will do.

If you need better accuracy, the place to spend the money is in the barrel. Some say trigger too, and of course a better trigger makes it easier to shoot better, doesn't actually make it shoot better if that makes sense.

Floated barrel isn't a bad thing either.

A solid mount, but I've found it doens't at all have to be a La Rue unless you take off and on all the time and want it to return to zero exactly...

Pistons are not needed and are less accurate. I've shot ARs more than a lot of folks, and have done well, and not just plinking, in national competition quite often.... pistons are much overrated. I can find no reason at all to get a piston gun.

Colt you pay for name mostly.. they are generally not as good an accuracy as say a cheap Wilson SS tube on an RRA gun. But they hold resale.

I always say the customs like Wilson are rip offs. To me they really are, because for the same or often less money, you can get one built for what YOU want to do with it exactly. The accuracy in these guns are in the barrel. I think I said that before.

where to start, get a gun with a free float rail if you can afford it, a Daniel Defense gun like the V7 or V11 is better than a Colt and costs more, I have both, get a 5.56 chamber and a 1-7 chromed barrel, don't buy the BS that a chromed barrel won't shoot go visit the AR forum and the 100 yard challenge thread and then follow on to think to axe yourself will my gun ever get rained on or be used in a humid environment and then think Remington 7400 jam master for which I have seen dozens in gun smith shops with rusted chambers and shells stuck in the chamber so chrome lined or Stainless steel 5.56 or Wylde chamber no less than 1-8, get a good scope mount I guess the PEPR mount is OK I prefer Larue LT104, another dude here who does it for a living prefers individual rings don't know what kind, the SWFA 1-4 classic is $400 bucks and it seems to be a good scope revered by many, get Pmags if possible. I avoid Bushmaster, CORE, Windham, and all off brands, I am not crazy about RRA but they seem to work I had one but you have to ask for the chromed barrel or get a SS.

Of course these are just my opinions and I am not a professional nor do I play one on TV.

Depends on what you want to do with the rifle. For general shooting at the range and a little hunting, all of the major brands should be fine. If accuracy is important then a free float hand guard is a good idea. The mil spec or better guns are a bit less likely to fail under really hard use but most people probably don't really need that level of robustness.

I have had Colts, a Bushmaster, RRA's and lately have been using Bravo Company (BCM) uppers on the various lowers. I think the BCM uppers are a good deal, especially the ones with 410 stainless 1/8 barrels. They shoot really well and are very solidly made for the price. They're mil spec and I like the new KMR free float handguards.

I would suggest figuring out the configuration you want and then see what is available that matches it.

I think your idea of a 1-4 scope is a good one. Recently I've been using a Burris 1-4 MTAC (30 mm). It works great for me and can be had for $350. Think carefully about what kind of reticle you want as people seem to have stong personal preferences about this.

The high end brands like Noveske or KAC are great but offer slight advantages for quite a bit more money. The same is true for scopes.

yep the BCM stainless is criterion. The chromed are green mountain, again take a look at the challenge thread on the AR forums. Lots of people talk, few shoot.

I've also heard that Criterion makes the BCM stainless barrels. At any rate they shoot well. I agree with the point that for accuracy it's all about the barrel. I have a new Nordic barrel on a BCM upper that is shooting very well. But I don't think the OP wants to rebarrel or build a rifle.

If it were me I would look for a rifle with a 16-18" 1/8 SS barreled upper and a good free float hand guard. I would want a good trigger in the lower like a Geissele SSA-E but that is probably a replacement for the stock trigger. And I would try to get a good adjustable stock on the lower. It requires a bit of work to figure out the configuration you want.

If you are staying with the gas system make sure you get the "mid length" and not the "carbine length" gas tube. Trust me.

To me the lower is insignificant - they are all essentially the same piece of aluminum. I have a RR upper and it works great for 3 gun (so it works every time I pull the trigger).

Timeny or Jewel triggers are great.

Not much to an AR - unless you feel the need to unload your wallet on a Daniel Defense or White Oak Armament. Mine works out to 800 yards (farthest I've shot it so far) and that is good for me.

I see the advantage of the piston design but haven't shot one - there is simply no recoil to an AR to worry about - regardless of recoil system. Obviously the gas system [bleep] where it eats.

One more comment. I flirted with shooting high power and had an white oak armorment upper for a while. Beautiful upper and shot great but it was pricey.

I agree on the mid-length gas if it's a 16" barrel and rifle length gas if it's an 18". I forgot to mention that.

this again, but I know nothing.

DD M4V11 LW
LaRue LT-104
SWFA SS 1-4x24

I just zero my gun with a specific load at 100 yards as I hunt in Georgia.

all the info you will need on zeroing.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?65679-AR-15-Zeros-and-Trajectories

come shoot the 24HC black rifle challenge.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...9834630/1/24HC_Black_Rifle_Challenge_Thr

I've shopped around for ARs and ended up just building my own. If I didn't have that option I'd be hard pressed to find a better build for the $$ than the M&P 15T from S&W. They spec them right. I believe the barrel is actually melonite/nitro carbed which is a very durable finish. The 1x8 twist will stabilize all but the heaviest .223 bullets and still let you shoot the lighter (and cheaper) 45 and 55 grain pills accurately. Check it out here:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/..._757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

I agree with rost495: Go to the AR forum. Not many of the gun writers who's respond here are AR guys. I'm certainly not. I own one (a Bushmaster carbine) that has been slightly modified, mostly with a Timney trigger, but all I use it for is occasional varmint hunting and ammo testing. It shoots great and is very reliable, but certainly isn't the sort of Rifle Loony AR that you'll get advice on at the AR forum. (You'll probably get as much advice on how to spend money there as other loonies provide about spending to improve a Savage Axis.)

However, I do get to shoot quite a few other AR's because of what I do, and also agree with rost that piston AR's aren't as accurate on average.

a side note, because some don't believe... my 6.5 twists shoot 52 bthp match under MOA at 200 yards all day long...

I gave my son an AR for Christmas a few years ago. A complete upper with lower parts kit and stripped lower. We had fun assembling it together. Just a suggestion.

Here's an example on sale at Midway now. Just add a stripped lower and have at it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/64..._now-_-federal_ss109_20150526_1-_-Banner

Thanks. Lots of good info to ponder.