Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting how many guys have decided not to shoot.

how many guys have decided not to shoot, at an elk because they were afraid the rifle they were using either did not have the required flat trajectory or required accuracy to get a well placed hit?
EXAMPLE
about 12-14 years ago one of my hunting buddies sent in a 300wby to have the trigger repaired and by the time we were leaving on our hunt he had not gotten in back,he was really upset, but he wanted to go on the hunt he had paid for so he reluctantly borrowed my sako 375 H&H, I had him sight in at 3.5" high at 100 yards with 300 grain hornady boat tails ,about the 4th day of the hunt we were sitting under a large conifer watching the far canyon slope when a group of elk started trotting thru on that far slope at about 330-350 yards,(he said it was easily 400 yards but I had a range finder) he had the elk in his sights, he had a bi-pod and a good rest, but as I waited he didn,t fire, he was going to pass the shot as he was convinced it was too far for the rifle and caliber,he was using. I said shoot! and assured him it was well within effective range ,he said he had no really idea where to hold at that long range, I said just put the horizontal cross hair just barely into the hair in the spine at the shoulder and the vertical cross hair thru the front shoulder and squeeze off! when he fired the elk dropped almost instantly , he acted amazed, he said he always thought that he would have to hold a couple feet high with a slow velocity cartridge like a 375 H&H , as we walked over to the elk he kept telling me that even with his 300 mag and the 180 grain bullets he regularly used he would have held a bit high on a "400 yard shot"
(yes I chronograph the loads at 2589 fps average)

that and several similar events proved to me that most guys can,t judge range in the field and most don,t fully understand the rifles trajectory or why you sight in a bit high at 100 yards, and it proved to me the value of a compact optical range finder

http://www.hornady.com/store/375-Cal-.375-300-gr-BTSP/

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/d...;type=Rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

Quite a few years ago while guiding a mule deer hunter I had a somewhat similar experience. The client was a guy who'd used magnums most of his life, but was getting tired the recoil. He bought a .30-06 and loaded it with some 180's, then sighted-in 3" high.

This was before laser rangefinders, but I'd been using my scope's reticle estimate ranges for years. We four a little bunch bedded down ont he far side of a draw. He asked how far it was and I said about 250 yards. He shot and the bullet went right over the deer's back, and they all took off, jumping a nearby fence onto a ranch where we couldn't follow.

I asked him where the hell he'd held, and he said just above the back-line. I asked him why he did that, and he said because everybody knows the .30-06 doesn't shoot very flat.

He hadn't shot the rifle at beyond 100 yards, and hadn't bothered to look at a trajectory table (this was also before most computer programs), so I had him shoot at a paper target at 250. He was absolutely astonished when the bullets landed within a couple inches of where he aimed!

I have not passed on shots for those reasons as I don't shoot that far, but I have passed on a lot of shots that I deemed were not practical because of the angle

I have always suspected that the guy that shoots prairie dogs or ground squirrels a few times a year has a tremendous edge in the big game hunting fields. Familiarity with trajectory, confidence in one's ability, all makes a huge difference.
This seems like a good time to bring up the article I read a few years ago by a well respected gun writer that was in Canada on a hunt for trophy elk. The deal was, if you drew blood, you were done hunting. The gun writer imposed a 300 yard limit on himself and if memory serves me well, ended up still killing a magnificent bull. It would be interesting to know what factors figured into his self imposed limit.

Fred

Last year I used a load borrowed from Mule Deer, for the .375 H&H, a 260 gr Nosler Accubond at a modest 2620 fps. The RL-15 made for a very accurate load, and I had it sighted-in at 200 yards.

Stalked to 306 yards (lasers are wonderful) of a feeding black bear, held about 9" high from my intended point of impact, and one shot did the job - about as neat and easy as can be.

In 2009 my .25-06 reached out and took a Wyoming mulie at 400 yards, holding on hair. Used a 300 yard zero with the Berger 115, and no problem at all.

Some folks just need to shoot more. Sight in a good load, and put some rounds downrange. Given an accurate rifle & load, it's just not that tough to handle a 300 - 400 yard shot.

I have passed on shots when I wasn't stable enough in my shooting position for accurate shooting. Absolutely. If I don't think I can make the shot, I don't send the bullet downrange.

Regards, Guy

while Id prefer my 340wby as an elk rifle I could easily use a 338 win mag,8mm rem mag, 35 whelen 9.3/62 mm 375 ruger or 375 H&H for the rest of my life and never feel I was at any real dis-advantage hunting elk

The only times I've not taken a shot is because I didn't feel I was up to making the shot. Usually a poor shooting position or bad, erratic wind, etc. The simple rifle and loads I use are all capable of making shots well beyond my abilities.
Next time that happens, have him "check his sights" at a rock a time or two out here in the distance. E

Working for an Outfitter, guiding, your more likely to be hunting a fixed area and place your hunters where they are going to be shooting within range elk.
The very last thing you want to do is move elk around on private land or public land honey-holes.

Hunting myself, exploring a new area, I try to find areas that I can cover the most ground and get an understanding of the elk in that area.
My heart does not thump against my rib-cage as much when I have elk in the scope that look like little specks of moving rocks.

I picked up a Ziess Conquest, Z-600* just for this.
The ranging function is fantastic. The post above the cross-hairs is 6" at 100 yards. If the brisket - withers is taller then the post, game on. Smaller, too far, and option time.

I love hunting the fringes of more open areas, and have passed on a lot of shots.

*I have never done better on-line business then dealing with Camera Land, a site sponsor. We all hear it, it's true. Their fantastic to deal with!

Can't say I have ever not fired due to those circumstances.

I have held fire becuase of confidence limitations in my particular rifle. Specifically a shot I passed while carrying my old Sav 99 in 300 Sav. It just isn't very accurate past 200 or so yards. My confidence with it out there is worse than none.

It was a shot I wouldn't have thought twice about had I been carrying my .270 or .340 Wby.

I passed on a 400 yard shot just a month ago in Colorado. There were about 2 dozen elk feeding accros a canyon from me but the crosswind was STIFF! with 20" of drop and 30" of hold in-to....I passed for a better day.

It's not a well-reasoned question. The second part of it--the "required accuracy" is especially puzzling. Why would you even take a rifle hunting if the bullets don't go where you want them to? How did a rifle that lacks the "required accuracy" even make it out of the truck?

As for the "required flat trajectory," all rifles lob them in on some arc. It's just knowing your drop table. It seems strange that someone would wait until they had an elk in their sights to suddenly, for the first time, think that their rifle can't make the shot. If the rifle zeroed and grouped OK when sighted in, then the rifle can make the shot--maybe the shooter can't make the shot, but the rifle is fine.

Other than the "friend borrowing the rifle" scenario described above, I can't think of a situation where anyone would do that. And that's different than when you, the shooter, decide that you can't make a particular shot due to distance, wind, or lack of a steady rest.

I have past on shots because of wind, or cover, or not having a spotter, or the animal was moving, etc... Never because of an inaccurate rifle.

I did have a buddy last year that borrowed my rifle because his was not set up for shooting at a distance. I think if I had not been there he would have passed, on that shot, but then again he might have tried anyways.

I can see your point for ballistics, but the problem with these guys and treestand hunters is actually getting the shot off.

I'm pretty finicky about knowing where my guns shoot. I don't have faith in charts. No matter who made them. I'm lucky to have a local range that has targets out to 500yds. Not that i'd take that long of a shot, but I might be tempted for 400yds if conditions were perfect. I don't borrow guns, and I don't hunt my own guns without lots of testing.

The only thing that will stop me from taking a shot is strong crosswinds.

I think the example in the OP's post is the guy had his gun worked on too close to hunting season. My guns are ready to go months before season starts. The most crowded day at the range is the day before hunting season starts. Ridiculous! That had all year to prepare.

I passed on a 175 yard shot this year witha muzzle loader. I knew when I started the hunt that 100 yards was pretty much the limitation of the gun I was shooting. I have also passed on shots when I was carrying a Model 94 in 30-03 and Model 94 in 44 mag.
Kind of a rediculus question. Waders pointed out accuracy wise,but any gun has some distance limitations whether it be handgun or some rifle equipped to take game out to a 1000 yards. Sooner or later one has to say the animal is too far.

There have been many times I decided not to shoot. sometimes the reason was the rifle in hand, most times there were other reasons including my own limitations. More than a few times it was simply because I didn't want to ruin an otherwise perfectly good hunt with a lot of hard work.

yeah! as I got older and a bit smarter (now past 60) I tend to think a good deal more about how I,m going to get a dead elk OUT of some canyon BEFORE I shoot rather than after I shoot, Like I usually did in my 20s-30s I,ve spend many years hunting this and surrounding drainage s
become rather used to hunting canyons like this and resigned to the fact that once you shoot your going to spend several days packing out meat in 66-75 lb loads (about the max I know from long experience I can reasonably transport in a back pack)

The only way i'd shoot an elk there is if my Jeep was parked at the bottom. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be hunting there.

Been there, done that. No more for this old man.

I'm with Mauser Hunter - I hate packing uphill.

Last year was my first elk hunt. Having spent my entire adult life in Virgina, in an area where the sea level is 28 feet. I was about 7300 feet up on a mountain opening day of first rifle, on my knees coughing up a lung when my guide asked me if I could hit an elk at 700 yards. It didn't get any better as the week wore on. I had the shots, but my pulse just would'nt let me pull the trigger at extended range with no wind. I had practiced all year on long shots, the rifle could do it, but I hadn't prepared. I've read countless articles of clients who couldn't run those last 100 yards and make the shot on a monster bull. In my 20's and 30's I just shook my head. Then it happened to me in my 50's. Then I understood. This year I prepared. It wasn't needed.