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Canada has two pipeline projects in the works. One to take oil to the west coast of british columbia so they can sell oil to the asians. And the other that is supposed to head into the usa to service the american market.

It appears that the natives are going to stop the line from going to the west coast because it's proposed route is across untreated [no treaty] land and they feel that the risk of a rupture is too much to take with the salmon streams in their traditional territory. The one going into the american market is being stalled because of partisan politics.

Do you think either of these projects will ever be completed because we sure would like to sell off some of this oil we are sitting on??

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I can not speak of the Western Canada line, but the line through the U.S. needs to be built if the oil is going to be used in North America. It seems that most good things take time.


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There both going to go ahead. Having America and China competing for our oil is a very good thing for Canada. If we have only one outlet we're too easy to blackmail.

Obama will delay the south flowing one - till after the election - for political reasons. He has a lot of green voters he has to appease - he'll hum and haw - get their votes, get re-elected, and then go ahead with the deal - knowing by then it'll be too late for them to do anything about it.

The one going west to sell oil to China will also happen - it's just a question of how much cash will need to be handed out to the tribes - in order to make all their "environmental concerns" go away. wink

Last I heard, the Gitsan Wet-su-wetn had already agreed (in principle) on a deal. Enough cash to buy all the chiefs and council members a new pick-up truck and a snowmobile or two - and "poof" - no more environmental concerns. smile


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Of course, Canada could decide we could actually refine our own oil and sell the refined product to Americans and Chinese. I guess that would mean too many long term jobs and we wouldn't want that. Better to remain firmly seated in our role as providers of raw materials to those countries who do wish to manufacture goods. Go for the quick buck!
We will buy pipe from China and refined fuel from the US so we can build the pipelines to employ their workers. Hoo-rah. GD

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You've got that right!

The only oil we should ever export out of Canada - is oil we refined - HERE.


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Sure would be nice if we built some refineries here. There is no reason that we can't produce the finished product, both enough to sustain Canada and have plenty to export as well. SE Alberta could use the jobs that the refining side of the Oil Patch would create.
Yes it would be expensive to start up but over time both Alberta and Canada would benefit. I also believe it could be done in an environmentally safe manner. Any new refinery would be built using the latest technology vice converting older infrastructure.
There is no reason why we could not be a world leader in environmentally sound resource extraction.
Pipe dream.........maybe?

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Originally Posted by BCBrian
There both going to go ahead. Having America and China competing for our oil is a very good thing for Canada. If we have only one outlet we're too easy to blackmail.

Obama will delay the south flowing one - till after the election - for political reasons. He has a lot of green voters he has to appease - he'll hum and haw - get their votes, get re-elected, and then go ahead with the deal - knowing by then it'll be too late for them to do anything about it.

The one going west to sell oil to China will also happen - it's just a question of how much cash will need to be handed out to the tribes - in order to make all their "environmental concerns" go away. wink

Last I heard, the Gitsan Wet-su-wetn had already agreed (in principle) on a deal. Enough cash to buy all the chiefs and council members a new pick-up truck and a snowmobile or two - and "poof" - no more environmental concerns. smile


Apparently that chief didn't have the support of his community and the Gitsan negotiators that were involved in that little deal they brokered got fired the day after this news broke. The Gitsan are firmly in support of stopping the pipeling from being build and they probably don't appreciate your insinuation about pickups and snow machines......

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Just watch.

The deal will be approved - the natives will get lots of money - and when they get enough money - all of their environmental concerns will evaporate.

It's all about money - and money only.

All their doing now is haggling over the price.

Mark these words.


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They have been worried of late about the arms caches they have been finding....this one may not be about money, and it may be about the indians standing up and saying NO for a change? What do you think the odds are of Canada turning it's armed forces on the indians......

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We will let Canada bring the pipe down. For now Obama is in a catch 22. He talks jobs but need green voters. This is what happens when they sit on the fence. The conservatives will take over the senate and will keep the house. Hope we get a real president next year. States have a dog in this fight too. We buy oil from people that don't want us dead ( I think) and we get to refine it in Texas. Like a poster said why drag it all the way to Texas to bring it back up to where it came from. I hope the states totally do away with OPEC. I also hope this deal doesn't make enemies between us. Buisness can be a funny thing.


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I thought Obama was doing pretty good under the circumstances. He took office heading into one of the worst financial disasters our world has seen in centuries and he has held the USA together! You have to wonder why the opposition would stifle any job creation at this time if it wasn't purly self serving??

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I believe it is best for Canada to not build refineries as margins suck and will only get worse. Combine that with the very high cost for costuction up there and refineries are a no-go when the econimics are run. We came close to building one there four years ago. Took the money and invested in it in Qatar. We are just completing a large expansion down here that, with hindsight, should have never been approved. The oil from Alberta will feed this refinery when the Keystone pipeline moves ahead.

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Canadian Indian bands still hold legal title to the vast majority of BC, do you seriously think they are going to take a few tokens for allowing a potential environmental disaster into their hunting and gathering grounds?

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China seems to think the pipeline will be built, and sooner than later.

China dives into oil sands as U. S. balks

To lift a quip from Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Arctic sovereignty policy and apply it to the American view of Alberta's oil sands: Use it or lose it.

The Chinese government pushed its shovel deep into Canada's energy motherlode yesterday when it announced a $2-billion stake in a five-billion-barrel reserve of "dirty oil" that Americans increasingly find unworthy of fuelling their vehicles.

The 60% claim by Petro-China in two projects owned by Athabasca Oil Sands Corp., while small compared to the great gobs of capital pouring into oil sands expansion and extraction, are the global giant's largest investment in Canadian energy yet.

And China usually buys into products it aims to consume.

Sources in Washington predict politicians there will not be pleased at having a massive supply of secure energy on their northern doorstep slipping under Chinese ownership.

Well, too bad.

Under the greenish Obama administration, "oil sands" is becoming a dirty word as Americans take on the delusional swagger that they can be picky about which oil is good enough to buy in a recession when supply is temporarily ahead of demand.

Canadian oil sands exports are increasingly encountering U. S. political resistance at federal, state and municipal levels as low-carbon fuel standards move through the legislative process to erect barricades against an energy source with an extraction problem.

But it is delusional because there is no post-refining difference between conventional and non-conventional oil and banning it in one state or city merely moves it to another, with no corresponding reduction in carbon emissions.

Yet the difference between the American and Chinese views of oil sand imports suggests that Canada is nearing a moment of decision.

It can be forever held captive to the whims of U. S. refineries, which import 60% of oil sand production or about 780,000 barrels a day. Or it can create a battle of demand between the two energy-consuming superpowers that will soon find there is not enough oil to satisfy their combined thirsts.

That will require Canada, whose pipelines now head only north and south, to punch a hole in the Rockies and open up a crude flow to the West Coast, from where oil could head overseas.

Environment Minister Jim Prentice is no fan of a single-buyer market for exported bitumen, which actually sells at a discount in the U. S. compared with Middle East oil despite coming from a friendly neighbour. He'd like competition injected into the system.

"Doesn't it help Canada's exporters to have alternative market choices?" he noted in a recent interview.

"We need transportation mechanisms to ship it to the West Coast. Refineries in the U. S. have limited capacity and we don't have anywhere else to sell it. Having the capacity to ship it to the West Coast would keep everybody honest, so I think it's good policy."

That's so obvious as to be rhetorical, but the cost and complications of a new westbound pipeline may be prohibitive for the private sector to go it alone.

The proposed Enbridge Inc. Northern Gateway pipeline, which has been on ice for several years, is being thawed for reconsideration.

That's at least five years off and the project faces numerous environmental, aboriginal land claim and geographical hurdles, which is probably why they weren't talking about it yesterday --although they weren't ruling it out in the longer term either.

But to understand China's strategic investment interest, keep in mind that 2009 will likely go down as the first year when car sales in the Communist country beat the United States, making it the world's largest car-buying nation.

At the risk of stating the obvious, cars consume gasoline, gasoline comes from oil and the world's largest deposits of oil, albeit locked in tar, straddle northern Alberta and Saskatchewan.

If America doesn't want to use it on environmental grounds, they're only one pipeline away from losing it to someone else.

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Originally Posted by CanuckShooter
Canadian Indian bands still hold legal title to the vast majority of BC, do you seriously think they are going to take a few tokens for allowing a potential environmental disaster into their hunting and gathering grounds?


I ran into some of the local Indian elders at the airport here who were on a 2 week all expense paid trip to China, they seemed pretty excited about it.


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Originally Posted by CanuckShooter
Canadian Indian bands still hold legal title to the vast majority of BC, do you seriously think they are going to take a few tokens for allowing a potential environmental disaster into their hunting and gathering grounds?
At the present the Indians hold title to next to nothing.It's possible that in the future the courts or the Province may award them title,but at present that is not the case.They have CLAIMED over 150% of the Province(overlapping claims).As usual CS is jumping the gun. Monashee


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The American greenies are a noisy but small extremist faction, does not speak for the general population who drive cars.

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Originally Posted by Monashee
[/quote]At the present the Indians hold title to next to nothing.It's possible that in the future the courts or the Province may award them title,but at present that is not the case.They have CLAIMED over 150% of the Province(overlapping claims).As usual CS is jumping the gun. Monashee


Your not being upfront Monashee, it was actually 110% I believe because of overlapping claims. AND if you spent some time reading court rulings you would understand that all untreated land in BC under land claims still has unextinguished native titles to deal with.....

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refineries cost billions and you still need the pipeline to move the finished product , the gulf coast is only running 60% to 70% of the their refining capacity so shipping raw product to the states makes the most sense, unless you want the government to get involved and start petro Canada over again ?

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anyone who doesn't think the natives have a price does not give them enough credit they smell payday and will play hard ball to get their piece of the pie and it will be tens of millions not beads and trinkets like the old days. They are getting very good at getting what they want

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