It appears that the USPS and US Customs do not have the same rules for shipment of Optics to Canada.

If you use PayPal or Click-n-Ship to create a paid label, part of the process is checking off a box confirming that you are not shipping and prohibited or restricted items as defined here:

http://pe.usps.gov/text/Imm/ce_003.htm#ep6216933

But not so fast. I had a scope being shipped to Canada seized by our stalwart Homeland Security guys (US Customs) because they claim I needed an export license for it.

After hours on the phone (all you get is "we're to busy to talk to you" recordings), I handed it off to my US Senator. Doubt I'll ever see the scope as it will probably be "sold" at some Customs Auction held at 2 AM on Christmas Eve.

The meaning of those bumper stickers "I love my country, but fear my government" is getting more clear!

You will get your scope back, but its going to cost you a holding fee. I think I paid a couple hundred dollars to get mine back after the same thing happened to me. Bad thing is, I asked the USPS before I shipped it and they said no problem.

Well I'm paying no fee as I conformed 100% to USPS regs.

It is not their employers (us) problem they they can't get their acts together.

Nice thing about being from a state with <500K people and two U.S. Senators...... they take an interest in every voter.

I'm just wondering how a scope going from WY to BC ends up seized in Chicago. There may be more to this than meets the eye, given Chicago's record of complete corruption for decades.

You can find help here, oldman..

http://www.wamhsac.org/

Can't believe that I clicked on that link.

Have shipped scopes to Canada with no problems, just declare what they where and value my Canadian friend had to pay duty when it was pickup up in ontario, used USPS in July.
Good luck
Anie

Shipping scopes to Canada without jumping through a bunch of hoops is not legal. If it was hassle-free you broke laws and got away with it. Unlikely you will be so lucky next time.

Karen
If you had a clue it would be even better... You just fell into an end game with that scope and it will cost more to recover than the scope is worth.

Those auctions are well advertised and available. They really want people to know about them and make them as easy and well-timed as possible... It is a revenue stream for them.

Routing of stuff to Canada always goes through a USPS US Customs Port... Chicago may be the closest route.

I sure am glad you are posting now instead of Framis. I mean he is like all confused all the time and does really stupid stuff...

Oh wait! Are you sure you aren't Framis?
art laughing

Well maybe I got away with 1, when you walk into the post office and telling them what you are shipping you think they would have stopped me! Declared a $300 value on a conquest from camerland and my friend had to pay about $30c

Well here are the facts (which you and I will agree are totally stupid), but they are the facts.
1. The Post Office does not set the rules for what may or may not be shipped w/o an export license. They will accept anything that you ship as long as it does not violate their Safety regulations.
2. The Department of Commerce is in charge of what requires a license and why.
3. Several years ago the USA entered into a treaty with other OAS countries to attempt to stop the flow of inter country shipments of firearms, ammo, explosives and so on. Some idiot bureaucrat added all optical sighting devices to the list. From there it went into legislation (which we know they pass w/o reading), then into the Federal Register (which no one reads) and then into Commerce Dept Regulations.
4. Since Canada is an OAS member.... bingo, if you send a scope w/o a license you are violating a Federal law. If you send it and lie about what is in the box, the Black Helos will be landing on your lawn.

I spent at least 12 hours on the phone with my US Senator, Commerce Dept., the Post Office & US Customs. Also countless hours were expended with this document:

http://www.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html

If you look in section 744 Category 0 you will find optical sights under "Misc." with a code of 0A987 on page 8.
You will note that one of the codes applied to scopes is "FC".
That stands for the "Firearms Convention" which was the outcome of the OAS treaty. If you find the country code chart, you will note that Canada has an X in the FC column. That means anything with an FC code cannot go to Canada w/o a license AND you need a new license every time you send an item to a different addressee. In the case of Canada, the addressee ALSO has to get an import license from Customs-Canada !

Now, maybe because of the intervention of Senator Barrasso, I
MIGHT get the scope back and I MIGHT not be fined. We'll see.

The Customs guy in Chicago told me that they were really stepping up their enforcement efforts relative to shipments among OAS countries because they have has quite a few incidents of boxes labeled "gift" being full of weapons ,ammo, explosives etc. (Weapons, ammo and their parts are under The State Department which has it own set of Regs as does Fish & Wildlife, the FAA and so.)

So you do whatever you want, BUT if they catch you, you'll lose the item, pay a fine and if you lied about what you were shipping, they will land on you with both feet.

I have become an expert on Commerce Dept regs., not because I wanted to, but because I had to to figure out this mess.

More to follow.

Hope you stay out of jail

That doesn't appear to be a risk as Customs well understands what a confused mess for the ordinary USPS customer who assumes the USPS has the facts (which they do not) and, of course, the prescribed penalty under the regulation for my violation is a fine.

Bridger-Teton eh? can see it out our front door.

It takes an export permit from the US gov't to ship the scope out of the States to Canada, which takes 3 weeks and is free. The Canadian gov't doesn't care.

Exactly.

The problem is the export out of the US, not the import into Canada. It is legal for me to import powder, bullets, barrels,scopes, etc for personal use across my border without a permit. It is illegal for me to cross your border without the export permit with the same items.

This is actually a bigger issue than many people realise. Apparently you can't export a scope over x4 power outside of Europe without the same sort of export paperwork...

Real easy to avoid this BS Don't ship to Canada.......

bosslady, have spent alot of time on bobcat and wildcat mtns up the pilgrim creek drainage still very wild country today lots of grizz

And heaven forbid you try to ship something with a mil-dot out of the country. Dont ask me about that mess but you would think sending it to an active duty service man overseas via USPS would have been ok. Live and learn....

Karen
Where went all the bluster?

USPS employees are specifically NOT allowed to make ANY judgement about the legality of shipping anything. They may only say their rules do not allow such a thing. If they were allowed to make legal judgements they would actually have to know everything about their rules AND all laws... Pretty foolish to expect that.

You sure are getting fully engaged here since Framis left...
art laughing

You know SD, since you apparently don't know who you are posting to and are contributing nothing of value to this thread why don't just watch and learn from those of us who have ACTUALLY been through this process and wish to advise other members of the pitfalls associated with exports ?
In plain English, stop being a troll.

For those interested: I spoke with Customs Canada this AM and they have No requirement (as LongDraw stated) for an import license for telescopes and are not a signatory (sp?) to the OAS treaty that started the whole mess. So all the stupidity can be laid on our Congress and how the Commerce Department chose to implement whatever law the Congress passed.

What was the old TV show: "Incredible but True" ?

And some wonder why the Chinese will win in the long run?

Ignorance of the law is no excuse

SD knows very well who you are BL.

You claim to be Framis/Oldman1942/Larry's wife Karen but everyone here knows that you are merely pathetic little androgynous Larry of layaway rifle, I'll send the Secret Service after you, poor me infamy.
Come clean and step out of your gender confusion and into the harsh light of reality.

Karen
You are absolutely correct! I do not know to whom I am posting because you claim to be just Framis's old lady and even said your name was Karen. Many think you are just Framis trying desperately to be a part of the clique... Not me though, because I always believe it when a lady tells me something... even over the internet.

As to being aware of what is going on, anyone could have done a search here and found this topic from a number of earlier threads. On those I may have even posted somethign of value. I just find it extremely funny that you went to your congresscritter and made them go through a lot of work when you could have done it all yourself pretty easily... Assuming you did... But you are claiming to be a lady and ladies do not lie...

You kept ignoring my posts and you almost hurt my delicate feelers. Happy to see my message is getting through though.
art laughing

You are 100% correct, however when the USPS itself doesn't know the regulations, the average taxpayer is in a rather bad position unless she happens to be an attorney specializing in international commerce law.

Even the many people I have spoken with at customs and commerce admit it is a broken system because the agencies that oversee and ship exported goods don't speak to one another.

It appears from your avatar that you are a fisherman, just as an FYI don't try and export any bird skins with feathers (for fly tieing) to Canada or you'll be in the same boat as I am, except that you will have USF&W to deal with rather than Commerce.

Karen
USPS knows their regulations just fine, usually... It is just when fools try to go around those with good info...

As to good info, please tell which non-CITES birds might be a problem between here and Canada. I just might know a little bit about that and I would LOVE to hear your version!
art laughing

Are you guys saying this lady is a man(cross dresser) I am out of here, want nothing to do with that, just saying

Don't care what country your shipping to [bleep] 2

What ever happened to NAFTA???

anie
Gender is a tough question in the case of BossLady on several levels...
1) There was a poster here and elsewhere under several different handles including oldman1942, Framis, etc. Said individual is noted for offering guns for sale on a lay-away system where you paid up front and were to get the guns months later... That would be pay in full and wait, not the usual a-little-at-a-time sort of layaway plan.

2) Said individual posted pictures of himself in "Unusual clothing" and S&M type appointments on another site.

3) Said individual posted pictures of a number of firearms.

4) Said individual was booted for major infractions (extremely difficult to get booted here)

5) BossLady showed up as a poster but was caught posting the exact same pictures as the former poster oldman1942.

6) BossLady claims to be spouse of said former poster... But only developed an interest in posting post her betrothed's dismissal...

7) All posters mentioned have a similar style and all make huge claims about all the legal damage they are going to do to those laughing at them. It is almost worth the time to look them up for comedic relief. Note the word "almost".

Please consider the above when reading the responses of others to BossLady...
art still laughing

Anie, if you wish to listen to and believe these trolls who stalk all my posts and try to sabotage any thread I post on.... well that's your choice.

I am not the topic, shipping to Canada is, so, as hard as it is with these trolls interjecting their BS on the thread, let's try and stay on topic.

Jordan, excellent question, rather than facilitating inter nation trade, out friends in Washington create a hodgepodge of conflicting, confusing and well, just stupid laws, regulations and rules that constrict trade and cause our economy to suffer.

Does anybody wonder why no major internet optical retailer sells out of the USA ?

Hosslady, [bleep] off!

Still waiting for enlightenment on CITES birds to Canada...

If you need "enlightenment" (as you do!) I suggest you call USF&W and ask them. Suffice to say they will not make it through customs without an export license.

Again, since you have missed it TWICE, the subject of this thread is: Shipping Optics to Canada..... BEWARE !

To the great ungulate: why don't you go away ? You are a classic troll defined as:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion"


I hope that for the ADULTS on this thread, some of this information will help you avoid a potential problem.

As events unfold, I will add posts providing updates. Thanks.

I have had no problems with scopes purchased from the States and sent to myself here in Australia.

After reading this post along with a host of others....I am amazed at the level of hostility among the posters here, no wonder I rarely visit. Matter of fact, time to hit the delete on my bookmarks. Other than JB's contibutions and a few others its not been than pleasant of a visit.

On the other hand....I prefer the banter that goes with posting on these forums.

Sure as hell beats the heck out of the staid, insular muck on the other sites.

I shipped a Zeiss to Canada last year...not the cheap Zeiss either. Thankfully it got thru w/o a problem, as I was unaware of this.The USPS said nothing about an export permit.

Karen
You made a post completely unrelated to optics shipping on this very thread:
"It appears from your avatar that you are a fisherman, just as an FYI don't try and export any bird skins with feathers (for fly tieing) to Canada or you'll be in the same boat as I am, except that you will have USF&W to deal with rather than Commerce."

And you wish to claim others untrack your threads? And you cannot list a single CITES bird that a fly tyer might ship that might get one in trouble if discovered?

And should I contact Agent Mendelsohn in the VA headquarters as I did a couple years ago with a question, or would Assistant Special Agent in Charge Steven Oberholtzer be the better guy? I mean, you know so much about this subject that you want to give advice on it; which of these two is the better choice?

These are both USF&WS guys... NOT US Customs... Care to explain the difference? Or is this another example of attempting to deflect the heat?

Now you claim you are doing this to help people avoid problems if shipping scopes to Canada... When they could get better info by doing a quick archive search...
art

No, if you think USF&W knows all the regs we are constricted by when it comes to exports you are naive. If you don't know the difference between USC and USF&W, well why don't you do a "archive search"? With all the name dropping I'm sure you shared a steam bath or two with Rowan W. Gould.

I did not bring up the feathers, one of the trolls did.

I noted several members saying they had done it and others suggesting how to lie to avoid Customs catching them.

I am not "claiming" anything. I am relating a series of events, the facts surrounding them and attempting to help other members avoid all the BS I am going through.

You do your "archive search", I'll stick to real time events.

There is no "heat" to deflect. The rantings of a few trolls, all of whom are on "ignore" is of no meaning and does nothing to advance the thread. Just as you are doing with your post.

If you have any experience or expertise on the rules governing international shipping, I'm sure the other members following this thread would enjoy hearing from you. On the other hand, if all you wish to do is muddy the water, then may I ask that you read not write ?

Once again BL/Framis/Oldman1942 is confused and just plain wrong when he/she/it claimed that it wasn't it who brought up shipping feathers.

This is where it says it didn't bring it up.



And this is where it did in fact bring it up.



Come clean BL/Oldman and you'll likely feel better about yourself.

Oops another troll surfaces. Wonder what he is saying ?

Who cares ? Sad, sick, little man (?) YAWN

Yep, although I know you toggled my post like you do all of them I didn't post the proof of your lying/confusion for you to see but instead for everyone else to see.

Sad, sick little man who's pretending to be a woman.
That right there is classic!

nsaqam, ignore him like I do......nothing he says is worth a c_nt full of cold p!ss anyway.

You are very likely right that I should ignore the fool.

His dishonesty and his bluster just get to me though.

BTW, that is a very colorful description of what BL has to say.
I like it!

Heh....you must love politicians then!

It is widely used around here.

Pretty much describes him/her/it perfectly!..

I skimmed over this little jewel earlier, and thought I must have read it wrong because it made NO sense; but, I kept going over other posts with the intention of coming back to it later when I would read it more carefully and try to make sense of the scheme. Well, I've come back, and read it several times. I even took a break and reassembled a Ruger Blackhawk thinking that would clear my mind and that when I re-re-read it, it would make sense. I was wrong. What was the "hook", or incentive, to get people to participate in such a goofy, nonsensical, lay-a-way [sic] scheme?

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3809472/1

Bosslady is oldman1942

its to bad were all not at a bar this shem(half man half women stuff) is best with liquor, scotch is good to make ya talk crazy as i have alot of experience with that, nsaqam i will be in the woods this weekend by longeville,mn looking for a place to shoot a big buck if have any tied up let me know were they be? hope i dont see any cross dressers in the woods!
anie

The obvious privilege of doing business with Oldman1942! Sheesh! Isn't it obvious?

You know the lies do get rather boring.

You show me ANYONE on any auction site or bricks & mortar business that offers lay-a-way that delivers the merchandise BEFORE it is paid for. There are none!

Lots of stuff gets sold on GB via lay-a-way by quite a few sellers.

One again we have trolls running their mouths about something of which they know nothing. Not surprising as I have bought more stuff on this site than all of them put together.

Karen
Sorry, that was your spouse that was doing the ridiculous advertising... And it is linked for you to see... Go ahead and look.

Oh, and diverting the issue by insinuating I was claiming that people should get guns on a lay-away plan before paying is an obvious obfuscation on your part.

The offer was to pay for the guns and have them delivered months later... Yeah, that was special...
art

Well I must of been lucky I just received my scope from Calif. to BC.
Went thru US customs OK this time. I bought about six Leupold's this way over the last 2 or 3 years, so maybe its time to cool it for a while!!
Larry

Short-bus, window-licker special.

One has to wonder, with the volume of optics and firearms that Larry and Karen Root (Framis/Oldman1942/Framis/BossLady/etc) deal here and elsewhere...

Whether they are violative of the FFL requirements and the IRS "hobby" exclusion....

Just curious....

Well, as to that, and to whether they are paying sponsors here, as it's certainly presumable (if not clear) that they are running a business... And last time I checked, businesses run here needed to be paying sponsors to stay and stay in busines here.

Again, just curious....

Yeah, there are some.


Last I checked, banks are bricks and mortar businesses, and banks offer credit in many forms wherein the consumer takes possession of real property before that property is paid for.

Would that be a tacit admission of running a business enterprise here, instead of the infrequent purchase or sale, or the "hobby enterprise"?

IMHO, it'd at least be persuasive, circumstantial evidence.

Of course, YMMV....