I'm not an optics snob and I give every scope a chance to win me over. However I have been less than impressed when I have had the chance to look through either friends guns with Vortex scopes and also when I have looked at them in various stores. Everything from eye relief to the quality of the glass just didn't impress me for some reason. I have always said that their marketing guy is brilliant as they have great advertising and have branded and packaged their product to look very similar to other very high end reputable scopes while slowly elevating their price point from a cheaper mid range quality scope to all of the sudden a high end lower priced mid to high end scope.

In any case the reason for the post is that I have a new rifle on the way and I want to get it set up. It's a Savage 10 Precision Carbine in 223 that will mainly be a fun gun that may get a little bit of Yote hunting use and a little bit of prairie dog use. I say a little bit of PD'ing as I have a very good prairie dog arsenal because I have three sons and we have no less than 9 dedicated rifles set up with big, high quality glass and all the bells and whistles.

The Precision Carbine will get a Farrell 10 MOA rail and either some Farrell, Leupy MK4 or badger rings. Scope is TBD but I am looking at Zeiss conquest in 4.5-14X44 with Turrets (found some lightly used and might have a line on an open box) and then a friend suggested this and told me that this is a better scope than the conquest (really?).

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/18...10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte


I have Leupy VX3's, VX2's, multiple Zeiss Conquests, a Nikon or two, a redfield, 1 Swaro Z5 and a mega spendy Nightforce on my 338 Lapua.

So is this Vortex tactical scope better than a conquest? Better than a VX2 or 3 even?

Convince me and I may try one and save myself a couple hundred bucks.

thanks in advance for the feedback.

I feel much the same way about vortex. They have marketed this company and taken the optics world by storm in a way I have never seen. that is really the key to what they have done.

ask yourself what is vortex and who are they. quite simply they are a marketing company and a good one at that. They make absolutely nothing. They just merely work with factories in japan and china as well as other areas and have them put a vortex label on the product. of course this is done to the specs and requests that vortex makes for the product. this isn't uncommon in the optics industry even leupold has some overseas stuff that they put their name on in addition to the product they make. bushnell, weaver and sightron also to my knowledge make NOTHING themselves either.

for me vortex has some great product the viper line and razor line come to mind, but the problem I have is this product is updated and changed on a frequent basis. why is that bad, RESALE value. if you buy a $1500 Razor spotting scope, what is that scope going to be worth in 5 years?? doug will have blown out the model of razor you have 2 years prior for half the money. my point is I would not buy their expensive stuff. I would possibly buy into the viper line if it fit exactly my needs.

the other thing is vortex has an amazing customer service program, I have sent several product suggestions to them and gotten an answer back. no other optics company has treated me this way. I suspect this is why the online crowd speaks so glowingly of the company.

I agree with you guys too. I hear all the rage about Vortex, and I can't dispute it. In my narrowmindedness though, I say they don't have anything someone else doesn't already have that's proven over a longer time frame. Kudos to them, as cummins said, on their reputation for solid CS. That's commendable. Even though I really like the Razor 85HD spotter, I can also turn that around to make a point. The ZenRay HD spotter is just as good for much less money. It appears to be a SwaroHD clone. Can't really warm up to the Minox stuff either though.

Haven't drank the kool-aid on the scopes, but the binos were a great value. And the CS was great when needed after several years of hard use.

Having said that, long term value and dependability in their scopes are something I am sure of with the other names such as Zeiss and Leupold. Hope the Vortex scopes are still rolling in thirty years like my old purple Leupy.

stumpy

It's funny cumminscowboy that you mentioned resale as that was a point I made to a friend this morning. Well taken care of high end optics hold a lot of their value when it comes to resale whereas others just don't.

I am so tempted to try this tactical Vortex scope but in the same respect if I pay a couple hundred more and get the Zeiss I know what I am getting and I am done.

Just mailed the check for the new gun, need to get a scope on the way so I know what rings to order. Fun stuff.

Haven't tried one myself, however, I stopped off at the gunshop on Sunday and noticed that most of the optics they had on hand were Vortex. When I asked about that they told me that they have been selling so much Vortex stuff lately that they haven't been ordering much of anything else.

Like most of you and most everyone I know, I don't like change and don't trust new. I don't have a lot of rifles anymore so the optics I have are tried and true scopes that I have had for years....all but one is a leupold, 3x9's that have served me over two decades. The one odd ball is a Mueller which I think isn't even a company anymore. It has served me well but it took a lot of convincing to get. As far as Vortex I will wait and see if they pass the test of time. It will take a few more episodes of Meateater for me to be sold in other words. Until then my 20 year old Leupy's will serve me just fine.

If Zeiss is within your budget, get the Zeiss .
Where Vortex shines is when Zeiss is NOT in your budget. They make very good optics at the $500 or less bracket, and the higher end stuff is excellent. I don't think they hold their value as well as the old standbys though.
I am very happy with my 10x42 Vipers and my 3-9x40Viper, they are an excellent value and they have held up well to hard use. Definitely recommend them, even more so when purchased on closeout.
That said, I am waiting for the Vortex PST 2.5-10x44 to go closeout.

.

Works for leupold.

dave

I just ordered a Zeiss Conquest, 4.5-14X44AO MC #43 w/ target turrets from Cameraland NY. $699.00. $200 more than the tactical Vortex, worth it.

On to Ken Farrell web site to finish things up.

I happen to be one of those guys that lives within 60 miles of the Leupold factory. I used their products since the early 60's. In those days, they performed quality control and sometimes discounted scopes made on the night shift as there was no quality control then. I can't prove the last statement, but am repeating from an insider. Nowdays, they use so many parts from China, that they cannot say "Made in USA", only assembled in usa.

As for the Vortex, the recommendations I got for their scopes, came from Sniper Hide. The reports on the glass and internals was good, especially for the money. I could buy two of the Vortex 6-20 for the price of one Leupold. Did not take long to figure that out. Pretty expensive insurance for a Leupold scope. One other point to remember, it is difficult for Leupold to compete when they have 700 employees and provide good wages and benefits.

There are 6 of the vipers on the guns of us varmint hunters that spend time together. We have no problem with the quality of the lens, the adjustments, which are used a lot, always come back to zero.

If you desire to be a big spender, then go ahead. I just like their scopes and will continue to use them in shooting rockchucks and sage rats.

I was pleasantly surprised by both of my viper scopes but if they give you pause then buy what makes you happy - it's your gun.

FredWillis, hate to break it to you but Vortex doesn't make anything, and they use Chinese and Japanese parts too.

JG, I am very well aware of where the Vortex are made. I simply quit buying any companies products when the quality goes down hill as they are with Leupold. I am concerned with quality/price ratio and customer service.

If I am going to buy products made in Japan or China, I am not going to pay an inflated price for them.

Here in Wisconsin I think half the people buying them think they're made in Wisconsin since the company is based here!

In 10 years there will be threads like "remember Vortex optics" and "where can I get my Vortex repaired".

Not a fan yet, but maybe I bit too soon and was displeased with the first one. From what I hear they have improved from their first offerings.

Wasn't impressed with my Viper.

Vortex makes a great scope like the viper pst,, owned several. Owned many zeiss scopes, the zeiss is better.Doesn't mean the vortex isn't a good scope it's just a zeiss is a zeiss and always will be.

Thanks for all of the opinions as this was really was I was looking for. I just need to get on the phone with the folks at Ken Farrell in the morning to verify that I can get away with the low rings with my new Zeiss.

No, not alone! I had a pair of binos and have looked at the scopes more than once and not overly impressed. Choice and options are a good thing though, so if they work for you, happy!

the first viper PST scopes did have lots of issues. but somehow vortex handled the issues in such a way that no one complained. I honestly don't know how they pulled it off. I visit snipershide too and I would say nearly half the guys sent the scopes back. but in the end everyone was happy, I suppose thats really all that matters. recent reports are great after a few tweaks where made to the PST scopes. think of other companies who didn't get something right and corrected it later and how they are still reminded of it years later. vortex pulled off the impossible.

most companies like vortex have stayed with the lower end stuff for a reason. and resale is likely why most people aren't willing to pay huge money for optics not from leupold or the german big 3. I bought a leupold spotting scope in 2005, kept if for 7 years and sold it for more than I paid for it in 2005. this makes upgading to new optics doable. another case is leica has new geovids out. I am thinking about upgrading, I do so with the knowledge that I will be very close to what I paid for the now old style geovids at resale. but vortex is likely to sell quite a few of the razor line because its sold just about everywhere, one thing I noticed is I think they are not bashful about giving away optics to certain people on youtube and they also make sure their logos and products were on gun related TV shows. whoever is running the marketing department could make millions doing other ventures if they wanted.

The Zeiss is a better optic all around. Vortex is made to compete in a lower price bracket (sub $500) and does well there.
Ive briefly owned a couple Viper PSTs , couple pair of binos and have mounted 4-5 HS series scopes on other peoples' rifles.
These all had fair optics and nice features but lacked, for me, an overall quality experience.
They have their niche but Zeiss quality will always trump them.IME.

Disagree. The Zeiss Conquest has similar build quality to the Viper, IMO. The upper-end Zeiss stuff is a different story.

Think there must be a hefty profit margin on the Vortex as certain dealers really push them.

I rate them with Tasco, Simmons, Swift, etc. Just another Chinese scope that is being branded Vortex and advertised to the hilt.

Geo

Agreed.

Some things about the Viper HS LR I like more than the Conquests I've had.
I think the cheesy plastic turret caps on the Conquests belong on a Nerf gun scope.

My Viper ain't Chinese and it's miles above the crap scopes you mentioned with regard to just about everything.

From that comment you must have your head up your butt, I'm surprised you can look thru a scope at all.

FWIW, I run a few Vortex Vipers, one Kahles, a couple of Conquests, and one Leupold VX2. All are very good to excellent performers, particularly when prices are taken into consideration.

Oh I forgot...I've got a pair of 6x32 Viper bins..they're pretty good too.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php/binoculars/5-binocular-reviews/8-vortex-viper-6x32

I have only looked at a few vortex scopes in store . Don't own one. I will agree they seem pretty nice albeit a little on the heavy side and with a short mounting length. But when you could buy the 2-7 viper on closeout they were tempting. My biggest concern is like most imported items the importers are constantly changing their lineup to sell what is available be it sneakers or rifle scopes. So much has been made of their warranty and CS but wait 10-15 years and send in your trusty 2-7 and what are they going to replace it with since they don't make a 20-7 anymore.

They aren't bad but out of the three conquests I have two are on target / tactical style rifles and have target turrets. Their target turrets are very high quality and are very positive on the clicks.

I have always felt that the turrets on the Conquest feel and look very, very cheap. I am not a Vortex cult member, but I do have a couple. Their turrets, in my opinion, blows those on the Conquest out of the water.

I like the Conquest TT's, as well, but they're not as high quality or positive as the turrets on the Vortex Viper PST.

One of the major reasons that retailers stock and sell Vortex scopes, is that they are competitive and if there is a problem, then Vortex takes care of the problem.

I still contend, that if you buy on sale, they are the best value for the money and very reliable.

The HS I looked through at SWH was stamped Phillipines, not China if it matters. Tey are probably made near where Burris makes theirs.

I have two Vortex optics, both of which are Razor HD: the 5-20 scope and their spotting scope. Good glass.
I don't have any of their other lines, but they quickly move to the market and respond very well to customer requests.
I have a number of Leupold scopes and really like them (Mark 4's and VX-3's LR/T's), but it takes them what seems like forever to respond when it comes to changes in product lines.
Vortex on the other hand, improves their lines quicker while keeping great customer service.
I see myself getting more Vortex scopes in the future.
My scopes that I use for LR are: Leupold (Mark 4 & VX-3), NF, Vortex Razor, Sightron S-III, and Burris E-3.

Damn man, wake up on the wrong side of the world? Time will tell

So it seems that we have a pretty good balance of people that either love the Vortex products and others like me that are just "meh" and stick with what has worked well in the past. This was by far the closest I have come to buying one of their scopes and honestly even though I went ahead and bought another Zeiss, I have not ruled out buying the scope I linked to and trying it. After all I do have another gun on order right now that the Zeiss could easily work on while I could still buy the Vortex scope I linked in my first post for my new Savage 10 Precision Carbine... Seems like it would be a good fit for it and might change my mind on them.

In trying to decide what I want in a scope, it comes pretty easy what scope I will buy. Let's get one thing on the table right off.
Money dictates, that I want the best scope for the dollar.

I have watched some of the various websites and came to the conclusion of what to by, after seeing long range shooters are giving very good reviews on the scope and the company service.

I am not wanting to hunt big game, only varmints. So, out to 500 yards my needs are very different than the deer or elk hunter.

So how many of those $299 3-9x40 Conquests did you buy? That was the best deal on the planet for a while.

Just planted this Viper 6.5-20x50 with Mil Dot on my 264.It's as clear and user friendly as any of my Leupys after a few outtings.Good quality for the bucks IMO.

a friend of mine picked up one at Cabelas last weekend for that price. They had like 10 and of course one of the early guys in line wanted to buy 8 of them. They told him no and he threw a big fit and was getting ignorant with the kid working the counter. Meanwhile you have 10 guys standing behind the guy all there for just one scope. Gotta be one jackoff in every crowd.

Bingo! I noticed early on Doug's Vortex prices go in half when the new line comes out which you never see with Swarovski optics.

I HAD a new pair of vortex Razor 12x50 (2 years ago) and Kaibab's 15x56 (this year) both of were nice glass but I sold them soon after the hunt I bought them for was over. Didnt wait for their value to drop!!

Sorry JG, I don't buy 3x9 scopes as I have no need for them. I have cheap Leupolds in 3x9 I bought years ago when they made good scopes. I am a varmint hunter and don't hunt big game.

I got their little 6 x 32 bino, cannot remember the model number, its perfect a lot of the times where I hunt, and its light. I looked thru one of their scopes early on and did not care for it.

I remember long ago when I finally afforded myself my first Leupold varix III. I was [bleep] in high fricken cotton. It was the best in the world. Why? Cause it was mine and I paid "big money" for it.

A common theme whenever a Vortex topic comes up is that "they are good for the money" and I agree that they are.
But.....for the commodity shopper that makes decisions solely on price are settling for a good they can afford OR that is "good enough" for the price they are willing to pay.

Like I said before, Vortex has feature rich scopes depending on the model but the glass just isn't there. It is mundane and boring, comparable to all the other scopes in their price class . The high dollar tac scope is an exception.

I have a friend that is a dealer and I can buy anything vortex for dealer cost and I choose not to. I have seen enough samples to know I will save my $ and buy something better.

The only Vortex I own is a Diamondback in 4-12x40. For the 2 bills I paid for it I couldn't be happier.

I've compared it directly to a Burris FFII, and a Leupold VX-II, and it gave up nothing to either one. Low light performance versus the Burris was dramatically in favor of the Vortex.

I have it on a .243, so it doesn't get hit very hard, but I haven't needed to remove a turret cap in the three years+ since I mounted and zero'd it. Not sure what else I can ask from it.

WTF NSAQAM?

What possess someone like you who, bragged that you voted for Obama twice, campaigned for anti second amendment politicians, supports firearms bans and registration, magazine bans and, confiscation to come and post on a firearms forum?

Is this a joke?

My Viper HS LR glass is at least on par with my Elite and my new VX-2 and that ain't a bad place to be.

I tested a Viper 4-16x extensively and found it an excellent scope, and not just for the money. The glass was right in there with Leupold VX-3's and Zeiss Conquests. The adjustments did exactly what they were supposed to, and were firm and easily heard, even by my somewhat worn ears.

The scope also has some pretty nifty features, such as an adjustable zero-stop, and reticle subtension marks alongside the magnification numbers on the power ring. I like it a lot.

There's a difference between actually testing a scope and looking through one in a sporting goods store.

MD,

Do you recall which model that was? Seems they make about 1,000 different "Viper 4-16X" scopes.


Travis

Could not agree more. All I hear from people is that "the glass looked good" and I think we all know that is not the end all when it comes to scopes, especially variables. Erectors, how well it is sealed up and its repeatability to shoot the 4" square reliably and accurately.

I'm certain for the money these are good scopes and it will be interesting to see how they hold up 20 years from now with the guys who get out and shoot frequently and test their gear under adverse conditions. Even though I went with a Zeiss I am sure there will be other opportunities to buy one and I likely will.

Travis,

4-14x44 HS LR.

Thank you sir!


Travis

I hear a lot of talk about how good Vortex is for the money...I don't know 3-9 Viper is $299. For that price I could have A Leupold VX-2 or a Weaver Grand Slam, both proven scopes with exceptional glass. I just don't see the draw of the Vortex.

I could not wait till I could afford a "REAL SCOPE".... LEUPOLD !! I have faithfully used Leupolds and had never had a problem.... till I bought a new 4 1/2X14. Junk right out of the box. Had to send it in and it took 2 months to get it back. Works fine now and I love it. Was looking for a good scope to put on my wife's 223 and didn't want to spend too much money and I bought a new NIKON 6X18 and it was junk right out of the box. Took 3 months to get it back and had to borrow another scope for the Pdoggin trip. Works fine now. Bought a new {then} Vortex Viper and it has been on 2 22-250s and now sits on my 280 AI and am shooting gongs all over the place.... running the turrets all over the place. UP.... down and back up. One day we shot to check "O" at 200 yards and then walked the gongs out to 600 yards and walked them back down to "O" and the last shot went in the same hole as the first. TRACKING seems to be OK, huh ?? Glass is as good as any of my VX2s or 3s. EVERYBODY pretty much buys and uses everybodys parts from all over the world to make their products anymore and as long as they do what they are supposed to do I guess I don't care anymore. I wish they were made in the USA but what is anymore ?? I really like my Leupolds and will buy another one someday. I will never buy another NIKON. Playing with their CS just pissed me off. But, I will probably NOT ever sell this Vortex and if they would offer a 1/8 minute target dot in a 6 1/2 X20 power or better yet a 8 to 32 with the dot in it I would be all over it. If spending 4 times as much as I did for my scope for you to think you got a better scope... go for it. I'm betting Vortex is here for the long haul. I just hope they don't ZIESS it up and price us out of some good scopes.

Can't say I disagree with almost everything in your post, almost. Especially the part about spending 4 times as much to make yourself feel better part - because now your trying to compare a Vortex to scopes like Nightforce and S&B and Leica's and so on which is not even reasonably debatable. I would say that my Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 on my 338 Lapua has more than a significant edge on any Vortex. And yes that is one scope that I own that I will say with confidence that was worth the money. I thought my ONE Swarovski that I bought used was a top of the line scope until I got my Nightforce.

As far as Nikon, I had a Pro Staff on a rimfire that didn't get shot much and I sold the gun with the scope on it. It worked fine for me but I have friends that have had monarchs and had serious strange issues with them and they had major issues with their CS and getting things lined out. I have more Leupold's than anything just solely because probably like you early on before I got a bit more educated on what else was out there I thought that Leupold was the end all be all scope. I have never sent a Leupold back and I just put 2 VX2 6-18X40's on two CZ varmints and while they have not been proven yet in the field so far they seem to be OK and I got them on a major sale (I seem to be able to find deals when I need a scope).

Not saying you can't find a better scope than the Vortex but it is going to hurt to get one, ha !! I have a set of Sworo SLCs and they are VERY nice. I just wonder if we actually NEED the very best there is. I guess that is a personal thing. I was redoing old guns and the shop was doing well at the time when I bought the SLCs so I bought them. If I was rich I might be shooting the high priced spread But I doubt that the doe I shot at last light at 485 yards would have said " You can't shoot me !! That scope didn't cost enuf !!YA, Leupolds and my Vortex... and that nikon... are the only brands I have. They seem to get me by just fine. I can go shoot Pdogs for 5 days for the difference in price of the Vortex and the Zeiss.

ackley33806

You really make a lot of sense in your posts. I've had a dozen Leupolds and liked them fine. Could I buy a VariX III with the same power as my Vortex, the answer is yes I could afford it. But, do I need more quality than the Vortex, to shoot Rockchucks at 500 yards? No, I don't think so.

New people in the shooting field may think that x brand is a good, well advertised brand and it may be. But if one is doing their research, they will find there are good middle class scopes that are excellent values.

In fact, I have a Tasco that when mounted on a varmint gun, has shot more than it's share of varmints. Bought 15 years ago, it is now a back up scope and it was cheap at the time.

I've only got two Vortex scopes. Both 2-7x32 Vipers. One's been on my M98 9.3x62 for over 3yrs. The other one has been on everthing from a .243 up to a light weight .300 (it's on a .25-06 now). Nary a problem.

I've had a 2-7x32 Viper for 3 years now. It's been on two rifles and now is on a turkey shotgun. Nary a problem to report. I found the image to be fantastic at that price point - as good as some $500.00 scopes.

Ackley,


But with your and my way of thinking. Some would not be able to sheepishly let us know that theirs cost more than our's.


Take care, Willie

Well I have to retract my statement about that Vortex Tactical in that I may buy one to try it out. I finally got to talk to a guy who bought one.

This guy has two other Vortex scopes that he loves and he said that this $500 tactical vortex is a huge POS compared to his other two and he did not recommend buying it. He said anywhere from the glass quality to the turrets were just not up to snuff with his other two.

Just wanted to pass that along.

and wdenike I don't think your comment wast directed towards me. But if it was I don't sheepishly do anything and I don't ever get into anyone's business about what they buy or for how much and I prefer that people don't get into mine. Everyone has personal preferences, likes and budgets when it comes to everything they purchase and I completely respect that. I don't rub what I buy into anyones face but I have strong preferences on how I set up my rifles as once I set them up I rarely change anything if it works. Hell this scope is just going on a cheap Salvage rifle anyway that are as budget minded as they get, and everyone knows Salvages don't shoot right? I started this thread to get feedback on a specific product line and based on the feedback it seems that there are many who like and many who do not.

Interesting. I've owned and used a few Vipers, including a couple of regular Vipers and a couple of PST's. The PST's are superior in terms of optics, mechanics, and pretty much everything else.

and wdenike I don't think your comment wast directed towards me. But if it was I don't sheepishly do anything and I don't ever get into anyone's business about what they buy or for how much and I prefer that people don't get into mine. Everyone has personal preferences, likes and budgets when it comes to everything they purchase and I completely respect that. I don't rub what I buy into anyones face but I have strong preferences on how I set up my rifles as once I set them up I rarely change anything if it works. Hell this scope is just going on a cheap Salvage rifle anyway that are as budget minded as they get, and everyone knows Salvages don't shoot right? I started this thread to get feedback on a specific product line and based on the feedback it seems that there are many who like and many who do not.


No Sir wasn't directed at you. As if it was there would have been little doubt, and it would have been clear as mud. As I don't sugar coat anything. Just was speaking in general. As most optic snobs don't generally have the same attitude that you have expressed.


Take care, Willie

Who cares?

It's just Asian cheapo anyway. Whats the pride or gain in that?

Buy Leupold or Zeiss and save your self time.

when the big talk of vortex viper came around i drank the cool aid.I bought a new vortex viper,and a sightron s2 big sky.both were same power.i put them both on rifles and tested them.well it was like comparing a tasco to a leupold.in every aspect the s2 won. the viper had terrible eye relief.the glass sucked at max power and was fuzzy around the edges. i sold the viper rapidly and have never touched another one of their scopes.i had a friend with me and he had a nikon buckmaster on a 220 swift that i thought was a better scope than the vortex.

You must have gotten a defective one.

Agreed.

That or Vortex has vastly improved their quality recently.

My new Viper HS LR is, as JB stated, every bit as good as any VX-3 or Elite I've used.

Happy B'day Jordan!

Also, on the Big Sky, the glass is very nice on them but the adjustments felt mushy and indistinct. The Vortex Viper HS LR adjustments on the other hand are some of the most positive and distinct that I've ever felt.
Bar none.

Thanks, Ken

Also, your experience with the optical quality of the Viper mirrors my own.

[/quote]



Also, your experience with the optical quality of the Viper mirrors my own. [/quote]

Which differs from the experience of quite a few other owners and users on this thread.

Optical quality is not consistent in the vortex product line. I have seen it in other brands as well at similar price points but not nearly as prolific as I see in the Vortex PST and HS line.

You have to remember that the far majority of posters in this thread that are not happy with their scopes are talking about regular Vipers. Most of the PST and HS LR users say that they're comparable to, or better than, the VX3, Conquest, etc.

I've owned and used 4-5 Vipers and PST's, and so I'm not talking about one good scope that's an anomaly.

But I agree that the product line has more variability in it than I would like, as far as optical quality goes.

that may be possible it was prolly 2 or 3 yrs ago.the big sky was really nice.i recently mounted a vortex diamondback on my brothers 223 and it was alot nicer than the viper i had.

From reading this thread it would seem that Vortex has dramatically improved their quality with the newest scopes being pretty darn good.

I've owned at least half a dozen vipers and there not a bad scope for the $$$$$ but the glass kinda sucked on the higher powered scopes.The lower powered ones meet my needs but a bushnell 3200 does the same job and can be found cheaper.

I bought a pair of 10x42 Vortex Diamondback binoculars new in October. I have used them less than 10 days and was pretty happy with them until yesterday. I was wolf hunting and noticed something inside the binoculars was rattling. I called Vortex's warranty department this morning. The said they would repair them but getting a new pair was not an option even though these have barely been used. That's fine, no more Vortex junk for me.

I have not warmed up to Vortex Optics. I learned many years ago that cheap optics are exactly that cheep and not a value at any price.

I haven't and likely won't drink the Vortex kool-aid either.
I did purchase a new $50 crossfire 32mm from Doug for my 10/22 rimfire last Summer, and for the ridiculous price it seems to be a solid little piece with a lifetime warranty.
Spending any real dough on one over Zeiss and Leupy however ain't gonna happen for me.

Resale is also a huge factor for me.

Funny you should mention that. The Vortex CS rep told me that I could send the binoculars in to get repaired and then sell them on Craig's List because they hold their value so well. How's that for customer service?

That right there is messed up....

So Vortex said send them in, and they would repair them, and you're not happy with that? Why on earth would they give you a new pair before seeing if they could repair the ones you have?

Interesting that other companies, that would do the exact same thing, are great, but Vortex sucks for it.

I'm not a Vortex fanboy by any stretch, but people have to be reasonable.

Amen!

The biggest problem I have with them repairing the things is that I had hardly used them. I used them elk hunting 1 day, 1 day for deer and 7 days wolf hunting. When I wasn't using them they were in the case sitting on a bookshelf. Granted they are not the top of the line binoculars, but they should last longer than that. If stuff is rattling around inside them after less than 10 trips, what would they be like after a year or two? The dealer that I bought them from must have agreed with me because he gave me my money back.

Anyone is capable of shipping out a bad pair, but to each his own. I'm glad your dealer made it right by you.

The open-box Minox I bought from Cameraland had a nasty case of fish-eye out of the box, but Minox made it more than right when I sent it in. New scope, and even let me trade out for the German reticule.

I would just like some idea about where I can get a 4x zoom scope with VX-3 level glass, exposed turret with crisp adjustments, side parallax, zero stop, 30mm one piece tube, scratch resistant lens coating, 75 MOA of elevation, 24 MOA of elevation in each rotation, under 20oz, and a no questions asked lifetime warranty for $514.

Anyone?

Take care, Willie

You cant. At that price point, it has the most features and assumably the best warranty protection than any other scope on the market.
Problem is, at $514, the glass suffers. You cant have it all in that price bracket and I think you know that.

Both John Barsness and I, who both actually own one, feel the glass is at VX-3 level. And that level is pretty darn good.

You got me. I do not own the HS but have mounted and shot rifles with them. Probably have 150 rounds logged with multiple 4-16 HS. I have owned 2 PST, both the 4-16 and the 6-24, and both were marginal in the glass dept and both sent down the road.

Not keyboard quarterbacking here, just sharing my experience.

I've been shooting a Viper HS LR 4-16x50 for pdogs the last year and it is DEFINATELY not VX3 quality glass. In fact my other pdog gun wears a VX3 and I shoot them back to back often. The only negative about the scope is I wish the glass was a bit better. It's not bad by any means but not on par with the VX3 to my eyes.

I like Vortex on a case by case basis...some are OK, some are quite good, and others just flat suck.

I would rate the PST and HS glass at VX3 level easily.

My viper wasn't up to par with my vx3. It went down the road.

My PST on 6x is brighter and clearer than my FX3 6x42, which is brighter and clearer than my VX3 2.5-8.

OMG emericus is going to have a melt down.

Glass quality certainly seems to be subjective.

I put the most stock in my own experiences but JB's opinion carries considerable weight as well.

it certainly is, my subjective opinion is I have looked through a number of Vortex's and none of them looked near the quality of a VX3, or a VX2 for that matter but that is just my opinion.

I would imagine blind testing would yield some interesting results in some of these comparisons.

it would have to be double blind...... Because I never know what they mean when they say its a double blind test.

Take care, Willie

I like the Vortex SPARC I have. It is probably the best of the budget red dots. Also have a pair of Vortex Fury 6.5X binoculars that are good binoculars.

I bought one of the 2-7X32 scopes that Cameraland had for $200 about a year ago and tried one of the Diamondback 3-9X40's. The glass was clear enough, but both scopes went down the road. There is a lot more to a scope than the glass. The eye relief was way too short for my taste and I couldn't get past the looking through a cardboard tube view.

Sorry, but I don't get why you want someone to convince you. You say you've checked them out, if you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.

Means neither the person administering the test nor the person taking the test know which is which.

Gotta say this post makes a lot of sense.

hey I just wanted opinions of other shooting enthusiasts as at the time I was considering ordering that tactical scope I linked in my first post.

I ended up going another direction but it seems that there are many people who felt compelled to offer opinions which is not a bad thing as others may be considering this optic.


and for what its worth I am convinced, I won't be buying them at all as along with the many negative opinions on this thread I have gotten a review from someone I know personally and I also looked at a few models at a local gun shop this week and I saw exactly what I saw before. A scope pretending to be high quality with marginal glass, eye relief that did not work for me and fantastic packaging (A+ to the marketing and product manager). Not anywhere near VX3 or zeiss glass. My opinion.

I am sorry if your panties are getting in a wad over the thread continuing.

What do you want me to do? Delete the thread? geez...

Once again I put my stock in my own eyes with a dose of JB added for support.

Maybe my eye is not discerning enough because I see the glass in the Conquests, Minox ZA5, Elite (4200), VX-3, Big Sky, and the HS LR as being very comparable.

I did have the entire ocular lens fall out of the 2x20 Crossfire pistol scope but these are the bottom of the line Vortex and Vortex fixed them for free.

Not sure what this JB is you speak of but again, You've made your opinion well known and I respect it. Everyone can like and buy what they want.

To each their own.

John Barsness. Mule Deer here at the 'Fire.

You know, well known gun scribe and valuable contributor to this forum.

He posted earlier in this thread.

ahh yes. Read his book and am a self diagnosed rifle looney.

I'm not sure what test JB did but I'm assuming a brightness test. I haven't seen the test but I gather he says it's comparable to a VX3 in that regard. It may very well be but I can tell you it's quite obvious shooting the two scopes back to back that the HS LR isn't a good optically as a VX3. Others who I shoot with have commented on the difference as well. Don't get me wrong I like the HS LR in general but the optics are what you'd expect for a scope with all those features for so little $$$. The optics aren't bad IMO, just not quite as crisp as a VX3.

Back to subjectivity and optics, but I find the opposite to be true. Everyone has their own opinion on optics, but the general consensus among those in my circle who own Viper HS and PST, and VX3 and Mk4, the Vortex glass is every bit as good as, and sometimes better, than the offerings from Leupold.

The problem with Vortex, however, is that some of their other scopes are near rubbish, and each one must be evaluated on its own merits.

No, don't think anyone wants ya to delete the thread. I think everyone with an ounce of common sense. Has figured out that you had made up your mind before you posted the topic!! So why the hell did ya ask any of us morons? After all you have recieved a much more savy review than anyone on here gave you. And both you and your advisor are 100% right. It makes perfect sense to all of us. To spend two to three times more for something. That will last the same 25 to 50 years. And will do the same thing. With very hard to notice differance. I know what I call that. But will let the rest use their imagination.



Take care, Willie

"Once again I put my stock in my own eyes with a dose of JB added for support."

^this!

A good while back I replaced a brand new 1.75-6x32 VXIII that just didn't work for me with a Vortex Viper 2-7x33. The guy I sold the VXIII to,at a good price I might add,was well satisfied with the scope. I was happy enough with the way the Viper worked for me that I bought another one before they were gone.

I'll add that wasn't the first Leupold I've had. Soon after I bought that Viper I bought a NIB M8 2.5x20 w/hvy plex here on the classifieds. LUVIN" it! In the mid 80's a used(2yrs old)Leupold 3.5-10x40AO Vari-X III was the first high quality scope I'd bought. Served yeoman's duty problem free for 20+yrs. I did send it to Leupold when the AO ring got tight whereupon they fixed it and gave the scope a good going over. Swore I'd never sell it but a youngster here needed it more than I did so...........

somehow my math doesn't add us to yours. I paid $699 for my scope and the vortex I was considering was $500. And I was honestly considering it. My god it's just a thread where I solicited advice and my mind was not made up. And if I thought this site offered nothing but advice from morons I wouldn't be on it. You seem like the type of guy that gets aggravated if anyone doesn't share your opinion. Let go of the anger man, it's not necassary. I just wanted some advice and thank you all for giving it to me.

This thread just goes on and on. I suspect that many who don't like Vortex scopes don't have them mounted and have shot 400 plus rounds when mounted. Frankly, I am happy as HeII many don't like them as that keeps the costs down for those of us who do like them.

The 6 Vipers my friends and I use are have are just over 2 years old, so the quality of early models could come into question as many have said. In the comparison of the Viper to the VariX 3, there was no deficiency seen in the glass of the Viper vs Leupold.

I think we need to attempt to keep up with the changes made in scopes to give fair evaluations. Pay your money and take your choice.

I've got a couple, but I've yet to mount any of them and use them. One of these years...

JB said in one of my threads about scopes that he was sent one for evaluation and in the course of that evaluation he decided he liked the HS LR so much that he asked to purchase it for his own stable.
I believe that means he liked the entire package enough to put his own money out to keep it.
I was leaning to the HS LR (after the scope was pointed out to me) but JB's comments pushed me over the edge to make the purchase.

Glad you like the HS LR nsaqam. They're good scopes. I'm happy with mine too.

I'm running 3 of the midway special 5-15 mil/mil HS scopes. I like the features for the price and the size and weight. One is on my 7 pound 300 wsm and is holding up well and shooting well under 1/2 moa with heavy 208 amax loads.

I think they're decent scopes but I did notice my nitrex tr2 and even an old weaver grand slam I've had for over 10 years seem to have clearer glass. I also wish the eye box on the vortex was a bit more forgiving when on the highest power. The clicks have ran true though and they've held up so I'm pretty happy with them for the $400 they ran me.

I did notice something a little weird. I moved a couple of them forward in the rings and my groups went to crap. I moved them back to the original rings centered on the scope body sections and groups shrunk again. Thought it might of been my change in cheek weld but I think I may have been clamping down the rings on a part of the scope body that was putting pressure on the erector. I've been known to clamp things tight. Just seemed like the erector wasn't always settling back to the exact same place when the rings were clamped in the wrong spot. Kind of like when your scopes at the edge of its horizontal adjustment and your dialing some vertical and things start settling wierd.

Bb

Compared to the Vortex Viper HS 4-16 X 44 lr The Vortex has 30mm tube, twice the adjustment range for $150 less. The Vortex gets me out to 1300yds, the Zeiss wouldn't make it to 1000yds without a moa base, which would add to the price of the Zeiss for me. If you want to spend more for less features to get maybe better glass, I don't know which one has the better glass, I would hope the Zeiss does. That's OK But for those that are looking for the best bang for the buck, it's why Vortex is selling alot of them.

I have a friend with one of those 4.5-14 Zeiss, next time he's in town we'll have to compare.

Thanks so much for your input. I am well aware of the range of MOA adjustment on the Zeiss. I put this on a Savage Precision Carbine 223 that I don't plan on going long with as I have several other rifles that are set up specifically for long range shooting. I was planning on a Ken Farrell base and rings no matter what and since there is no price delta between the 0MOA and the 20MOA I went ahead and with with the 20 just in case I ever decide to shoot it way out there which I doubt. I buy the Farrell stuff as I appreciate the level of precision on the machining of their product as I have their stuff on several of my long range and bench rest rifles.

I think this horse is thoroughly been beaten to a pulp and again thank you for all your feedback and as I said before when I made my decision, to each their own. There seems to be a great following for this manufacturer and equal amount of people out there that don't feel that they are all they are built up to be.

In any case here is the finished product that prompted me starting this thread. I hope to shoot it today. You wanna talk bang for your buck? Let's talk Savage Rifles. I actually posted 4 of my Savages over in the Savage collector forum yesterday as I had them out so I took some pictures. Go check them out as they have some really nice optics on them that I would love to get some feedback on.....LOL Hope everyone is having a fantastic weekend.

I picked up a Viper HD 8x42 bino yesterday. I spent quite a bit of time comparing it to everything else of similar size in the case at Cabelas. To my eyes nothing was better than the Viper HD and most wont even close. Build quality and workmanship was much better than the other binos tested. Diopter and focus smooth as silk and very precise. Optically superb.

This thread moved me to go ahead and get a scope that I had decided to get and then after thinking held off.
Now I'm real curious to compare it with my VX-3's LR/T's of which I have several.
Viper HS LR 6-24x50. The XLR reticle is in the First Focal Plane. I like a good MOA reticle in FFP!
http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/sub_vpr_hs-lr_f_6-24x50_xlr_moa.jpg