Befor i start and people start bashing, im going to say that im just curiouse about this and if i were to hunt cape buffaloe i would use a bigger gun than a 338.


How do you think a 338 win mag will do against a cape buffaloe? I know that a 375 is a pretty popular gun for cape buffaloe with barnes TSX and solids, but i was looking at barnes bullet selection and the weight of the 338 and 375 and theirs not a huge difference. You can go clear up to a 250 grain in both solids and TSX for the 338 and in the 375 you can go up to 300 grains. I was also looking at the Swift A-Frames and they go clear up to 275 grains in the 338. I know that the 375 will have far more punch than the 338 but it seems like the 338 has the potential. What do you think?

Actually, I would use a 338 with reasonable confidence.

Anything will kill a Cape Buffalo. The question is under what circumstances and how fast. If you consider the safety of the hunting party then I would think the old standard 375 to be minimum.

When the perfect shot is made, most anything will do. But...... how often is that perfect shot made? When I wonder into the thick stuff I prefer my 470NE. When in open country and longer shots are the norm I prefer something in the 416 class. JMHO.

For what it's worth I prefer Woodleigh 500 grain soft point and solids, and 350 grain Swift A Frames in the 416. Let the flames begin.

you can get 300s in .338 and 350s in .375.

Would a hunter using 338 in a country with 375 minimum caliber regs be technically committing a Lacey act violation?

Not everyplace in Africa has a 375 minimum.

338WM's have killed lots of Cape Buffalo....

338 bullet quality plays a critical roll here. Get the good stuff, high BC's and high SD's

Personally, I like the 375 Ruger, but the 338WM is plenty enough gun for the job.

Those 416's are pretty too, can't argue that!

I can tell you from experience that the older 250 gr steel jacketed solids fired from a .338 Win will shoot all the way through a cape buffalo from almost any angle. you just need to have the right address on them.

I just have absolutely no use for .338 as I have yet to find anything that can be done with a .338 that I can't do with a .375--and with less recoil.

The .338 WM is perfectly capable of taking Cape buffalo. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. It is a perfect one gun African battery where legal.

also this calibre is not popular amongst many ph's. seems this rifle is somehow( flinching?) responsible for a lot wounded animals. i have red to many times in hunting magazines and web forums that a min of a 338mag is recommended for plains game. then the overseas hunters rocks up over here with a new 338 that he has far less experience with than say his trusted 30-06.

but to answer the topic question. you will be surprised sometimes how easy a buff goes down. i would not be surprised that the calibres in africa that took the most buff would be between a 303brit and 7x57maus. so can a 338 take a buff? most probably. should i take a buff hunt with a 338? no!

Elmer Keith used to like the 300 gr W/W load. (.338)
The .338's I have test fired are to light and kick like Missouri mules.
If I were in the military I might have a use for the .338 Lapua but for hunting I would go to a .375 H&H magnum and never think twice about it!
9.3X62 would be a good choice for pest control for a farmer!IMO

+1.....

There I fixed it for you

LT DAN,

While a great many American gun writers do recommend the .338 as perfect for African plains game, this is yet another example of American gun writers recommending cartridges more powerful than most guides would recommend. Almost to a man, the African PH's I know recommend the .30-06 for plains game. Amazing, isn't it?

As for the original question, I have never hunted Cape buffalo with a .338 but know several people who have. Without exception, they have killed their buffalo neatly.

Amd why wouldn't they? The .375 (or 9,3) minimums for buffalo were put in place a century ago, when bullets weren't nearly as good as they are now. A good, heavy .338 bullet is going to do as much damage to a buffalo as any other mid-.30 bullet.

I also saw where somebody on this thread brought up the old notion about a bigger rifle working better when the shot isn't perfect. This simplies that you can shoot a buffalo around the edges with a .375 but you can't with a .338. This has always been BS and always will be.

FWIW, if you shoot a little 125 pound impala in the gut with a .375 H&H, using one of the finest premium bullets available, a 270 grain Swift A-Frame, it still runs off to die sometime overnight.

Ground squirrels are no different. I made two one shot kills on ground squirrels with Hornady 270 gr Spire Point from a .375 at a measured 200 yards. However, a ground squirrel hit with a 225 gr. Hornady SP from a .338 WM at an exact 100 yards was merely wounded and had to be dispatched with a size 10 Danner boot. Placement is key.

I am almost sure that where there are free roaming, wild cape buffalo there is a minimum calibre restriction that makes the 338wm illegal. IIRC, some locations, countries have a .375" minimum, some a .366" minimum.

But a 338wm will do the job.

JPK

"Placement is key."

If you take your "plains game" rifle into the long grass for buff, good luck, your going to need it.

IIRC the largest 'Buff Jim Carmichael (of Outdoor Life) ever shot was with a .338 and 250gr Partition. Stone dead on the spot.

I don't think I'd like the idea of a .338 as a stopping rifle. Many people consider that the PH's job and take whatever (well, you hope anyway) their comfortable shooting. If you have a "stopper" and shoot it well, all the better. If you can clobber what you're aiming at with a .416/.458/etc I doubt your PH would mind a bit. OTOH I'd bet many PH's wish they could get people to bring something they shoot well to begin with and not something they're afraid of but think is more appropriate.

for heaven's sake, give this man a beer. no truer words were ever written on a forum!!!!.

this thread is a variation on the 45 gov for dgame in africa threats one get. and after all is said and done ONE fact remains: why hunt with a calibre that might do it, versus a calibre that will do it?

I have shot a number of cape buffalo with the 338 Win. I used solids mostly but I have used the 300 gr. Woodleighs also..They kill buffalo as well as the 9.3s or the .375 H&H..If there is any difference I would say that a buff shot with a solid from a .338 Win will run another 25 to 50 yards further than he might if shot with a 375 H&H..and the .338 is the full equal of a 9.3x62 and that is no light praise...

I would have no hesitation to shoot more buffalo with the .338.

My favorite buff calibers are the .416 or 404 and I like the Woodleigh 450 gr. bullets and/or Northfork cup points. In a monolithic I like GS Cusoms HPs. For whatever thats worth.

To the many hunters who have not seen a 300gn Woodleigh Weldcore in .338, take a look at your small finger, that's about it right there. It has a gob of lead on its nose and remember that Geoff McDonald tries all his bullets on game, usually buffalo, before he sells them to the public.

You don't see the tweaking in spec's and shape like many other bullets. The homework is done before the marketing begins.

Shouldn't be too long before the wonder stories start with the 240gn .308 .30/06 bullet.

FWIW, The 250gn Woodleigh is also a good .338 bullet.

JW

to the many hunters who have not seen 300grn .338. there is a good reason for it . there are guys that do this business as as an 24 hour occupation on a continent that is unforgiving. take a look at your small finger, the calibre that is as large as your small finger is not recommended by african ph's on dgame. please respect our life long opinion. we want you to have a good experience and more important to leave alive.

Not speaking of cape... but 338 happens to be a favorite of mine... I doubt that I could have taken the caribou at the distance that I did, with a 375.
This is one of those conversations like elk rounds and such. As stated almost anything decent will do.. but in a crunch more ends up being better. If I were arming specifically for a cape, I sure wouldn't be thinking anything small like a 375....

[quote=rost495
Not speaking of cape... but 338 happens to be a favorite of mine... I doubt that I could have taken the caribou at the distance that I did, with a 375.
[/quote]

Not much difference in trajectory. I compared trajectories on Federal's web site. Comparing 250gr 338's to a 270gr 375 and using a 200yds zero, Federal shows only a .7", 8" and 3.2" differences at 300, 400, and 500yds. Going to the 225gr 338 and difference widen some, but then you could step down the 375H&H to 250 or 260grains for other than buff targets and the trajectory differences evaporate compared to the 225gr 338.

JPK

Rost495, shot his Carribou at over 800 yards if memory serves

802 to be exact.... one of the reasons I happen to like the particular diameter of .338... no flies on the 375 but its in no mans land to me... too big but not big enough.....

I tend to agree with this. If you really, seriously HAD to use one rifle for literally everything I might very well choose a .375. However, I'd soooo much rather have a .300/.338 (actually I have a .340) and a .416.

The caveat would be if the .375 is as far up the ladder as you could shoot well. If that's the case far be it from me to say it's inadequate. It's far too proven a caliber to make such a silly statement. It just wouldn't be my personal preference.

I'm not sure I could see a caribou at 802yds, I know I couldn't shoot one. Damn, that's far, my range finder max's out at 600yds.

What you all do not like about the 375H&H is exactly what I do like. It is adequate or more for every animal in Africa except elephant, for which it is suitable, but light. It is plenty flat shooting for any distance at which I would shoot. It is the perfect second rifle for any African DG hunt.

Take Africa out of the picture and then the 338 makes a fine top end rifle for NA, though I think the 375 would do as well.

JPK

That makes it the perfect second rifle

Lots of comments by some that have not used the .338 on Buffalo or probably anything else for that matter based on their "asumptions"..It's a flat shooting son of a gun with a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS, a 250 gr. Nosler at 2750 FPS and a 300 gr. Woodleigh at 2500 FPS..A 250 Nosler btw will shoot through a buffalo broadside almost every time and a 300 gr. Woodleigh will also, but the 300 gr. woodleigh PP will shoot them lengthwise.

I will state flat out that you cannot tell any difference in a 338 300 gr. Woodleigh PP bullet at 2500 FPS from a 300 gr. 375 bullet at 2500 FPS and a 100 to 200 FPS either way will not make any difference...I will add the 9.3x62 with a 300 gr. or 320 gr. Woodleigh to that same equasion..

If The 338 Win., 9.3x62, or .375 do not suit you and they are so close to equal that you can't tell much if any differnce in the field, then you best jump to the 40 calibers or larger.

If I had to hunt buffalo the rest of my life with a .338 Win. or 9.3x62 and 300 gr. bullets it would not be tragic or earth shaking, but it wouldn't be my choice either, I'd pick the 416 Remington as a matter of fact.

There is more difference between the 338wm and the 30-06. .030" from 30-06 to 338wm. .037" between the 338wm and the 375's. Moreover, that difference in diameter is magnified in area.

Also, Federal lists the 250's at 2660fps or less, not 2750fps. I doubt that Federal loads the 338 down, or understates their load's performance. The 210's run 2830fps - not 3005, the 180's 3120.

The difference in trajectories is almost nothing between a 225 TSX and the 210 NP, at Federal's realisticaly achievable velocities, .3", .8" and 2" at 300, 400, 500yds, or 1/10th MOA, 1/5th MOA and 4/10's MOA. Impressively, the difference between the 210 and the 250 NP's is only .8", 1.8" and 3" at 300, 400, 500yds, or less than 1/4th MOA, 1/2 MOA and 6/10ths MOA. 200yd zero assumed for the differences noted above.

Except on the internet, MOST RIFLES AND SHOOTERS CAN'T ACHIEVE 1 MOA, AT 100YDS!

JPK

I can hold a minute with a good rifle.

But thats a decade after I started trying! And not with the big bores.

So, if you hold an MOA in the field, and the rifle shoots within an MOA, each pretty rare except amoung shooters and rifles on the internet (most shooters I see at the range, even shooting off bags, can't determine how accurate their rifles are because they cannot shoot well enough to limit group dispersion to that caused by the rifle by eliminating shooter caused dispersion,) dispersion cuased by the rifle's and the shooter's imperfection is 5x and 3.3x the difference in drop between the 210gr NP and the 225 and 250gr NP's respecively, AT 500YDS!

Since dispersion caused by rifle and shooter imperfection will cause high as well as low hits, consider that the rifle, shooter downward dispersion at 500yds shooting the 225gr NP, is 2.5x the trajectory drop differential. 1.65x for the 250gr NP.

In the field, the shooter will never see the trajectory differential.

JPK

Getting a .338 with the right 250 gr bullet close to 2900 fps isn't that tough. But if you want to try it, you'll have to do it on your own. 25" barrel, btw.

I was a back up on a hunt for a NW Red Buffalo in Cameroon, and I had a .338 WM with Failsafe bullets in my hands at the time. A frontal shot in the chest was taken with a .375 H & H with a 270 g solid that had no apparent effect other than to send the bull running across an open area for the long grass. I hit him with a 250 g Failsafe with a high shoulder shot and put him down on the spot. Now the Red buff aren't quite as big as the Southern Cape buff, but they are big enough for me to say a .338 will work, but it is not my first choice.

JPK,
I don't really understand your point..I handload and have no trouble what so ever getting those velocities that I quoted.

I understand a wider cross section is a better stopper, but a 300 gr. bullet is a 300 gr. bullet and the .338 has the better sectional density thus better penetration than a .375 and that has to count too, but all that is anal tech, the facts are you can't tell the differnce betweent the two....

I would suggest that you have not used the .338 Win. on buffalo based on your post..I admit its not the ideal buffalo round, but that is not the issue here, the question was will it work and the answer is it will, and it works rather well IMO..Would I prefer a .375? probably but its not a big deal to me one way or the other..I would feel equally armed with a 338 Win., 9.3x62 or .375, albiet perhaps mentally the .375 would provide a modicum of comfort! . I would feel like I had a very definate edge over them all with a 416 Rem., Ruger or Rigby or a 404 Jefferys.

With RL-22, I'd take?

A friend of mine killed 3 buff with 3 shots from his 338WM in Moz.

Load was the 250XFB in front of RE-22.

This group was shot at 300 yards




This target speaks for it's self





Here is another one





I agree that those Doubles won't do MOA at 100

Nice targets.

In many many ways, this is a very funny thread. Classic, really... .

And I have killed one or two things, including a Cape buffalo, but I wouldn't argue this point for anything... .

Dennis

Knowing you it was either a Whelen or a 404, cuzz u don't like belts!

Those were the two I took to Africa... .

Shot the buff with a 400 gr Barnes solid, in the head at about 50 ft. In that case, I'm pretty sure the Whelen 250 gr would have worked too. But when we were looking each other in the eye in the grass 30 kilometers from the truck, I preferred the .404, thank you very much... .

Not to say a .338 wouldn't work...just that I'd just as soon not prove it .

Dennis

...and it walks all over the 35 Whelen...



I guess the Whelen is just a plinker.

It's my favorite plinker!
If I ever feel the urge to shoot a Cape Buffalo I will load up some Barnes originals 275 gr. to make him think twice.
It seems to me bullet placement would be more important than caliber, especially when they are a few feet away. My wife tells me I have been wrong on occasion though.
whelennut

My 9.3x62s have mostly had 26 inch barrels and I always loaded either the 300 gr. Swifts or the 320 gr. Woodleighs both soft and solids to about 2400 plus/minus FPS with RL-15 in those long tubes..

Considering the 375 shoots a 300 at 2500 to 2550 FPS in my gun,all things seem about equal..

The 338 shoots a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS so again all is equal.

I know the cross section is different and but the SD of both the 9.3 and the 338 beat out the .375 so it might be a push, but in fact I will give a slight advantage to the .375 as I am a beliver in cross section of bullet on big game..

But in the end, the differnce isn't of much concern, at least to me, and I have used all three a good deal, mostly on buffalo. Frankly you cannot tell any difference, and if you can its only in your imagination or your basing it all on written figures.

I must add that if you have any such concerns about the above 3 calibers on big bad stuff then you need to use a 416, 404, 458, or even larger to bolster your need for more soup! I personally prefer the .416 to about any other caliber for the big stuff, it makes me feel a bit better armed for no particular reason..

Ray,
do you prefer one .416 over the others?

Ray,

I am not discounting the 338wm's capacity to kill a cape buffalo, what I am disputing is that the trajectory of the 338wm compared to that of the 375H&H isn't a significant advantage, even at extreme range. And moving to 300gr 338 bullets makes the 375H&H the flatter sooting of the two.

JPK

Jwp475,

If the photos you posted show groups that were shot with a 338wm hunting rifle, I am impressed. I would be really impressed if the shooter didn't know the range in advance of the shot.

JPK

threads like this about 338 on cape buff, is one of the reason local African hunters show almost no interest in hunting forums.

"They don't value our experience and don't listen to our advice, if it wasn't for the almighty Dollar we wouldn't tolerate them here"

this comment was removed from the phasa minutes not so long ago.

JPK,
Why would the 375 shoot flatter under any circumstances than a .338 in that the .338 with the same weight bullet has a much higher sectional density and will maintain its velocity better than the snubbier .375 bullet?? I shoot both and my .338 is flater shooting. I know that the 375 with any bullet cannot shoot as flat as my .338 with 210 Noslers at 3005 FPS with one of my handloads...Not degrading the .375 its one of my all time favorite calibers.

KJ,
Inasmuch as I build my own rifles, also sell custom big bores, I prefer a good full blown custom Mauser .416 Rem to all the rest, but a Win. M-70 or Ruger 77 is always a viable option at less money.. I would demand iron sights and control feed options.

Lt. Dan,
I see your from So. Africa but you post doesn't indicate that your are, in fact it indicates that you are not?? At any rate I know as many PHs in Zim, Botswana, Tanzania, not to mention RSA as anyone around and I have never noticed them to be caliber concious to any great degree.

I have on many ocassions had the tracker carrying my .338 for plainsgame and I my double and coming across a buffalo in thick stuff and the PH tell my to use my scoped 338 and stick a bullet through a hole in the bush..Most of the PHs I know cull buffalo with 30-06s and 308, even cull elephants with .308 Military firearms. 99% of them shot their first buffalo, Lion and elephant with 30-06s...

[quote=atkinson

Lt. Dan,
I see your from So. Africa but you post doesn't indicate that your are, in fact it indicates that you are not?? At any rate I know as many PHs in Zim, Botswana, Tanzania, not to mention RSA as anyone around and I have never noticed them to be caliber concious to any great degree.


[/quote]


??? so now what sir? should i let you test me if i am from sa. who are you to question me from were i am? this attitude only confirms my previous post. i hate to repeat myself but for you i will do it again. " can a 338 take a buffalo? most probably, is there something better to use ? yes! but like i said who takes a locals advice, and you proved my point. luckily by far the majority of overseas hunters that visit are humble, gracious and most important has a wonderful sense of humour. these kind of guys has long ago formed my view of a foreign hunters of which American hunters are often the majority. skilled hunters that are mature enough to recognise good advice when they hear it. there is also previous post in which i said that that 303 and 7x57 are probably responsible for the most dg kills in africa. oh ! now of course you realise that you didn't read that, and simply past judgement. i have said it before and i will say it again. the most important thing you should bring along to africa is not the right calibre or clothes or range finder ,but most important bring a good sense of humour!!!

so now that i have said what i wanted to say lets continue to see if i am from s-africa: wie is jy? en van waar is jy? ek dink jy soek net moeilikheid! or lets try another local language : ke mang? o kaye? o watella moena!! haukla? granted my SeTswana spelling is BAD!

Lt Dan
I don't care where you are from, but the most close minded people I've ever met on suitable cartridges are former farmers who are now selling hunta on their farms. Or maybe they are just Dutch.

Ray,

The 375H&H shoots flatter when comparing bullet weight to bullet weight, ie. a 250gr 338wm vs. a 260 or 270gr 375H&H. When comparing similar SD bullets then the difference is insignificant.

Your 210gr, 3005fps 338wm load (175fps faster than the Federal load though in line with Nosler book data) is similar in performance to the 235gr 375H&H load in the Hogdon book at 2965fps. SD is comaparable. 40fps don't mean squat, even at the longest practical hunting ranges.

225gr 338wm factory or book loads run from 2700fps up to 2840fps, 270gr 375H&H factory or book loads run from 2690fps up to 2800. SD is comparable. 40fps don't mean squat at even the longest practical hunting ranges.

250gr 338wm factory or book loads run up to about 2670fps, 300gr 375H&H factory or book loads run up to 2670fps, which is from a Federal factory load. SD is comaprable. No difference.

Also, if one was inclined to exceed factory or reloading manual velocities - which I won't do and can not recommend, the 375H&H has a lower SAAMI pressure max.

Editted to add: In my experience, PH's are very interested in the rifle cartridge a hunter's rifle is chambered for when hunting buff or, especially, elephants. And they are even more concerned about bullet choice.

JPK

JPK, as is it should be. the ph is responsible for a good hunting experience, the needs of the customer but most important the customers safety. this thread started in good faith with a question towards the 338's abilities wih respect towards buffalo. the answer will always be that the 338 can take a buffalo, it is possible. but the right advice, especially for a novice buf hunter, must be that there are more suitable calibres to use.

Why is the 338 not suitable to take a Buffalo? The 318 Westley Richardson had a good reputation in Africa and it is at about the power level of the 33 Federal

A token to valuable to just be buried.

Thanks, Lt. Dan.

PC / and $$ probably were the reasons why it was removed from the meetings minutes.

To bad.

Lt. Dan,
Hey I was not questioning you, I just wanted to know where you were from, as it was confusing..A simple yes or no would have surfised, and you didn't answer that even, but I withdraw the question, don't really care....If your on the prod, take it out on someone else..all this stuff is just conversation to me and I have no problem with discussion, but certainly don't want to get in a pissing match with over something like where you hang your hat...

JPK,
Your point well made, were not totally agreeing but were close!

Ray,

Over time, I've found Lt. to be on the up and up. He's legit.

Lt.-
Ray just wants to know your bona fides. He's been around the block a few times and is en guard for fools and pretenders.

Hatari,
I was not questioning him, not in the least, his heading said So. Africa and he referred to himself as one of us Americans, and I was a bit confused..No intention of ticking him off..I apoligize if he took it that way...Sometimes the written word indicates misunderstanding I suppose.

This thread can present some interesting angles if we go beyond the simple question, can the 338 wm drop a cape buffalo?
It can, many others have done it, and I've done it. That is not really the interesting question.

A more interesting question is "When" would one do it?

Obviously, someone planning a safari and travelling around the world will probably want a heavier 'thumper'. Personally, I would recommend more than the 375.

But that is beside the point if a person has two rifles. Two rifles means that some of the time a person is carrying one, sometimes the other. Now what happens when someone is tracking a roan antelope and comes upon a nice buffalo? WHat happens if a 338 is in one's hands? That is essentially what happened when Jim Carmichael was in CAR many a year back. One should carry some deep-pentrating ammo properly sighted in. A person can't just tell the buff to hang around while one gets the other rifle. The 338 will do the job. And the 338 can be loaded in some light TTSX 185 'antelope' bullets with 3100fps trajectories and 425BC for someone who wants to shoot a 300-400 yard impala or hartebeest. Or roan or waterbuck.

But the 416 will also do the job for buffalo.

Several on the thread mention the 416. I think that we are seeing a natural progression. If one has a 338 wm, the 375 HH is only a minor step-up in power. If one wants more power they would step up to a 416 etc. Something like someone with a 270 Win. If one wanted to step up, the 30-06 is really more of the same, with a minor power increase. OConnor and Carmichael called the 270, 280 and 30-06 the 'three-sisters'. Instead a person with a 270 would probably gravitate to a 300 or 338 mag.

Now if someone had a 375HH and wanted to jump up in power, they might think 458 Lott. But if they wanted that one-rifle versatility, then it would be a handloaded 416 Rigby. A pleasant, comforting recoil, and flat shooting, with 5500-6000 energy levels in handloads. (Though I'm glad that the 450 Rigby has also been brought into life, it's just a little too close to the 416 for me to justify another rifle. Now a 505 . . . hmmm. But it's just not as versatile as the 416. And the 416 is available in 'normal' priced, factory rifles.)

Ive personally witnessed a cape buffalo killed at 20 yards with a .22 magnum ruger all weather rifle shooting cci 40 grain fmjs.

Of course it was tame in a pasture and we were there to butcher it.

Yes...

But that was before the mother had a chance to lick the afterbirth off it...

LOL no it dressed around 650 lbs if i remember right. I was a butcher and we specialized in coming to the customers house to slaughter the animals. A very rich fellow decided to raise some exotics for the freezer, bison asian and cape buffalo, elk, pronghorn and numerous antelope i cant recall. My boss shot the two buffalo and i shot the elk and others. That little .22 magnum killed alot of animals. All were with frontal brain shots except the elk as its head slopes it was shot behind the ear.

.22 mag...the poacher's friend...because it works, or so I hear (no smiley because I don't).

The .22 magnum is capable of killing anything i ever put a bead on, obviously i wouldnt advocate it for dangerous game. My intent on posting that would be to show that shot placement is key.

I'd slip the .460 into this caliber spread. It is a step up that is noticeable and practical with a trajectory near identical to the .30/06.

Personally, I would use a .338 for most anything with the heavier bullets loaded.

JW

"They don't value our experience and don't listen to our advice, if it wasn't for the almighty Dollar we wouldn't tolerate them here"

Well...not all of 'em.

In Zim it's legal to hunt lion with a .300.

My .300 is practically an extension of my mind.

I have many one-shot kills with it on things heavier than lion.

My PH said to bring a .375.

So I bought a .375.

I understand. I wasn't disagreeing.

for Aussie Gunwriter:

Yes, the 460 is also a flat-shooting, versatile, take-everything calibre. It's main drawback is the non-control-feed action in the Weatherby models. The 450 Rigby, on the otherhand, comes in the CZ550 with control-feed and should pretty much duplicate Weatherby loads when handloaded. Even better, one can load the newer, lighter 458 bullets for 'reaching out and touching' way down field. Unfortunately, the 450 Rigby is a custom-order job and about triple the price of the 416 Rigby. Which leaves average 'meat hunters' like me with the 416 and 338. With today's bullets the 416 and 338 truly do it all.

When looked at in the other direction, if one has a 416 rigby and wanted another plains rifle as a back up, where should one turn? The 375 is a bit 'same-ol'same-ol' after the 416, often in a heavy rifle model. The 338 can be gotten in very light, inexpensive models, yet packing the punch for non-dangerous game at long range PLUS being able to take a buffalo cleanly with good bullets should the situation arise.
Double plus: last year my son took a nice guinea fowl with a 338wm. The sun was setting, the guinea fowl were out in a meadow pecking at the grass after a rain, and the 338 cleanly dropped the bird without meat damage. Just aim into the upper half over the breast. It's a great confidence builder in a rifle when it's sighted in to do that. So far I haven't used the 416 on guinea fowl, mostly we just used 270 or 222/223 on spurwing geese or guinea fowl when the taste for bird arose, but don't have those rifles anymore where the guinea fowl are. Which reminds me of the Carmichael article I mentioned in a previous post. '3 rifles to hunt the world'. He chose 280, 338, 458 win. I'm not a gunwriter but have pretty close tastes in 270, 338, 416. I think that Jack O'C would smile on such a battery, too. Elmer fans might choose 30-06, 375, 505. I guess I like the 25-50 yards extra range that the 'light battery' has. It's not very significant, though, under 300 yards, which is 95+% of any African hunting. (And yes, a 270 will take a buffalo, but let's not discuss that. If walking around on an antelope hunt where buffaloes and lion roam, one doesn't happily reach down below the 338. At least the 338 or 416 needs to be along. We all have our lines to draw.)

PS: Elmer would probably just have a 338 Lapua/RUM/KeithT instead of the 30-06 and 375. then a second rifle in as large a bore as available.

i agree. we have enough problems over here in s-africa as i am sure you know. it is a constant fight to make a living and even stay alive . the last thing i want to do is to fight with fellow hunters. maybe we should contribute our strong opinions to the our dedication to hunting.

I certainly don't want to get into a debate with anyone over the perpetual CRF Vs PF but I will say that a single file (non staggered) magazine feed in my experience is as close to flawless as I have seen. The number of miss feeds and bolt jams I have witnessed from CRF is way into double figures and anything PF is very low single numbers. I have never seen, or experienced, a column feed jam or misfeed. That is not an argument, just my obserbvation over a few lustrums.

JW

Our current 338 is a Tikka with a nice column push feed and has functioned flawlessly when chambering. I hadn't thought much about the 338 feeding because it is a non-dangerous game rifle, most of the time. Taking a bullet out of the chamber and re-setting in the clip requires removing the clip, but that is done during 'down time' when no animals are present.

for Aussie

If I had a 460 Weatherby//450 Rigby, and I've considered the idea quite pleasant, then I might have thought in terms of a 375HH for plains animals. But those rifles are heavier and more expensive than the 416 + 338 combo. One's starting point of what is already owned influences the perspective.

Thank you.

those are nice pictures. Great teaching device.

And sometimes when switching languages the right word just doesn't come. It blocks. But we communicated.

jwp475; the scene from "Full Metal Jacket" comes to mind... marching around the barracks holding their "guns" in one hand and their "rifles" in the other!!! LOL!!!

What I liked was the 416 Remington, I had been told by others that the 458 Lott and 460 G&A are better. I think this is because they hunt in Africa more often. The 416 Remington will also shoot bullets such as the 350-grain Swift A-frame and that is a bit more bear insurance than a 375 H&H, which is also quite adequate for the big bears, as is the 338 and the 300 Winchester magnum. On the big stuff in Africa, the 416 will fair well and unless you are hunting over there often, I think the 416 is ideal, not that the 375 would not do well. It seems outfitters and PH are more comfortable when you know your way around a 416.

So assuming you had a 416 Rem, (and it shoots the same as the 'cool' loads of 416 rigby, which is to say wonderfully), would your second plains rifle be 338? And coming back full circle to the thread, would you consider a buffalo if the 338/second-plains-rifle were in your hands on the occasion?

I normally take a .416 to Africa with me when I go visit the camps that I book for...I shoot everything with it..I don't like to haul two guns all over the world, as I travel a lot between contries..
The original question was will a .338 kill buff..Yes it will about like a 375 or 9.3x62 or 9.3x64..If they rewrote the rules today they would include the 338 as legal IMO...It will shoot a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS in my gun..What else does it need to kill a critter raised on milk?

It is not my favorite buff caliber, the 40 calibers suit me best.

Ray,

dont know why but i had a sudden dream of you with a .416 and synthetic and stainless ... yes i know for you is like a nightmare but we dont have same dreams and nights lol ...!!!!