Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 338 win mag VS. Cape buffaloe???

Knowing you it was either a Whelen or a 404, cuzz u don't like belts!

Those were the two I took to Africa... .

Shot the buff with a 400 gr Barnes solid, in the head at about 50 ft. In that case, I'm pretty sure the Whelen 250 gr would have worked too. But when we were looking each other in the eye in the grass 30 kilometers from the truck, I preferred the .404, thank you very much... .

Not to say a .338 wouldn't work...just that I'd just as soon not prove it .

Dennis

...and it walks all over the 35 Whelen...



I guess the Whelen is just a plinker.

It's my favorite plinker!
If I ever feel the urge to shoot a Cape Buffalo I will load up some Barnes originals 275 gr. to make him think twice.
It seems to me bullet placement would be more important than caliber, especially when they are a few feet away. My wife tells me I have been wrong on occasion though.
whelennut

My 9.3x62s have mostly had 26 inch barrels and I always loaded either the 300 gr. Swifts or the 320 gr. Woodleighs both soft and solids to about 2400 plus/minus FPS with RL-15 in those long tubes..

Considering the 375 shoots a 300 at 2500 to 2550 FPS in my gun,all things seem about equal..

The 338 shoots a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS so again all is equal.

I know the cross section is different and but the SD of both the 9.3 and the 338 beat out the .375 so it might be a push, but in fact I will give a slight advantage to the .375 as I am a beliver in cross section of bullet on big game..

But in the end, the differnce isn't of much concern, at least to me, and I have used all three a good deal, mostly on buffalo. Frankly you cannot tell any difference, and if you can its only in your imagination or your basing it all on written figures.

I must add that if you have any such concerns about the above 3 calibers on big bad stuff then you need to use a 416, 404, 458, or even larger to bolster your need for more soup! I personally prefer the .416 to about any other caliber for the big stuff, it makes me feel a bit better armed for no particular reason..

Ray,
do you prefer one .416 over the others?

Ray,

I am not discounting the 338wm's capacity to kill a cape buffalo, what I am disputing is that the trajectory of the 338wm compared to that of the 375H&H isn't a significant advantage, even at extreme range. And moving to 300gr 338 bullets makes the 375H&H the flatter sooting of the two.

JPK

Jwp475,

If the photos you posted show groups that were shot with a 338wm hunting rifle, I am impressed. I would be really impressed if the shooter didn't know the range in advance of the shot.

JPK

threads like this about 338 on cape buff, is one of the reason local African hunters show almost no interest in hunting forums.

"They don't value our experience and don't listen to our advice, if it wasn't for the almighty Dollar we wouldn't tolerate them here"

this comment was removed from the phasa minutes not so long ago.

JPK,
Why would the 375 shoot flatter under any circumstances than a .338 in that the .338 with the same weight bullet has a much higher sectional density and will maintain its velocity better than the snubbier .375 bullet?? I shoot both and my .338 is flater shooting. I know that the 375 with any bullet cannot shoot as flat as my .338 with 210 Noslers at 3005 FPS with one of my handloads...Not degrading the .375 its one of my all time favorite calibers.

KJ,
Inasmuch as I build my own rifles, also sell custom big bores, I prefer a good full blown custom Mauser .416 Rem to all the rest, but a Win. M-70 or Ruger 77 is always a viable option at less money.. I would demand iron sights and control feed options.

Lt. Dan,
I see your from So. Africa but you post doesn't indicate that your are, in fact it indicates that you are not?? At any rate I know as many PHs in Zim, Botswana, Tanzania, not to mention RSA as anyone around and I have never noticed them to be caliber concious to any great degree.

I have on many ocassions had the tracker carrying my .338 for plainsgame and I my double and coming across a buffalo in thick stuff and the PH tell my to use my scoped 338 and stick a bullet through a hole in the bush..Most of the PHs I know cull buffalo with 30-06s and 308, even cull elephants with .308 Military firearms. 99% of them shot their first buffalo, Lion and elephant with 30-06s...

[quote=atkinson

Lt. Dan,
I see your from So. Africa but you post doesn't indicate that your are, in fact it indicates that you are not?? At any rate I know as many PHs in Zim, Botswana, Tanzania, not to mention RSA as anyone around and I have never noticed them to be caliber concious to any great degree.


[/quote]


??? so now what sir? should i let you test me if i am from sa. who are you to question me from were i am? this attitude only confirms my previous post. i hate to repeat myself but for you i will do it again. " can a 338 take a buffalo? most probably, is there something better to use ? yes! but like i said who takes a locals advice, and you proved my point. luckily by far the majority of overseas hunters that visit are humble, gracious and most important has a wonderful sense of humour. these kind of guys has long ago formed my view of a foreign hunters of which American hunters are often the majority. skilled hunters that are mature enough to recognise good advice when they hear it. there is also previous post in which i said that that 303 and 7x57 are probably responsible for the most dg kills in africa. oh ! now of course you realise that you didn't read that, and simply past judgement. i have said it before and i will say it again. the most important thing you should bring along to africa is not the right calibre or clothes or range finder ,but most important bring a good sense of humour!!!

so now that i have said what i wanted to say lets continue to see if i am from s-africa: wie is jy? en van waar is jy? ek dink jy soek net moeilikheid! or lets try another local language : ke mang? o kaye? o watella moena!! haukla? granted my SeTswana spelling is BAD!

Lt Dan
I don't care where you are from, but the most close minded people I've ever met on suitable cartridges are former farmers who are now selling hunta on their farms. Or maybe they are just Dutch.

Ray,

The 375H&H shoots flatter when comparing bullet weight to bullet weight, ie. a 250gr 338wm vs. a 260 or 270gr 375H&H. When comparing similar SD bullets then the difference is insignificant.

Your 210gr, 3005fps 338wm load (175fps faster than the Federal load though in line with Nosler book data) is similar in performance to the 235gr 375H&H load in the Hogdon book at 2965fps. SD is comaparable. 40fps don't mean squat, even at the longest practical hunting ranges.

225gr 338wm factory or book loads run from 2700fps up to 2840fps, 270gr 375H&H factory or book loads run from 2690fps up to 2800. SD is comparable. 40fps don't mean squat at even the longest practical hunting ranges.

250gr 338wm factory or book loads run up to about 2670fps, 300gr 375H&H factory or book loads run up to 2670fps, which is from a Federal factory load. SD is comaprable. No difference.

Also, if one was inclined to exceed factory or reloading manual velocities - which I won't do and can not recommend, the 375H&H has a lower SAAMI pressure max.

Editted to add: In my experience, PH's are very interested in the rifle cartridge a hunter's rifle is chambered for when hunting buff or, especially, elephants. And they are even more concerned about bullet choice.

JPK

JPK, as is it should be. the ph is responsible for a good hunting experience, the needs of the customer but most important the customers safety. this thread started in good faith with a question towards the 338's abilities wih respect towards buffalo. the answer will always be that the 338 can take a buffalo, it is possible. but the right advice, especially for a novice buf hunter, must be that there are more suitable calibres to use.

Why is the 338 not suitable to take a Buffalo? The 318 Westley Richardson had a good reputation in Africa and it is at about the power level of the 33 Federal

A token to valuable to just be buried.

Thanks, Lt. Dan.

PC / and $$ probably were the reasons why it was removed from the meetings minutes.

To bad.

Lt. Dan,
Hey I was not questioning you, I just wanted to know where you were from, as it was confusing..A simple yes or no would have surfised, and you didn't answer that even, but I withdraw the question, don't really care....If your on the prod, take it out on someone else..all this stuff is just conversation to me and I have no problem with discussion, but certainly don't want to get in a pissing match with over something like where you hang your hat...

JPK,
Your point well made, were not totally agreeing but were close!

Ray,

Over time, I've found Lt. to be on the up and up. He's legit.

Lt.-
Ray just wants to know your bona fides. He's been around the block a few times and is en guard for fools and pretenders.

Hatari,
I was not questioning him, not in the least, his heading said So. Africa and he referred to himself as one of us Americans, and I was a bit confused..No intention of ticking him off..I apoligize if he took it that way...Sometimes the written word indicates misunderstanding I suppose.

This thread can present some interesting angles if we go beyond the simple question, can the 338 wm drop a cape buffalo?
It can, many others have done it, and I've done it. That is not really the interesting question.

A more interesting question is "When" would one do it?

Obviously, someone planning a safari and travelling around the world will probably want a heavier 'thumper'. Personally, I would recommend more than the 375.

But that is beside the point if a person has two rifles. Two rifles means that some of the time a person is carrying one, sometimes the other. Now what happens when someone is tracking a roan antelope and comes upon a nice buffalo? WHat happens if a 338 is in one's hands? That is essentially what happened when Jim Carmichael was in CAR many a year back. One should carry some deep-pentrating ammo properly sighted in. A person can't just tell the buff to hang around while one gets the other rifle. The 338 will do the job. And the 338 can be loaded in some light TTSX 185 'antelope' bullets with 3100fps trajectories and 425BC for someone who wants to shoot a 300-400 yard impala or hartebeest. Or roan or waterbuck.

But the 416 will also do the job for buffalo.

Several on the thread mention the 416. I think that we are seeing a natural progression. If one has a 338 wm, the 375 HH is only a minor step-up in power. If one wants more power they would step up to a 416 etc. Something like someone with a 270 Win. If one wanted to step up, the 30-06 is really more of the same, with a minor power increase. OConnor and Carmichael called the 270, 280 and 30-06 the 'three-sisters'. Instead a person with a 270 would probably gravitate to a 300 or 338 mag.

Now if someone had a 375HH and wanted to jump up in power, they might think 458 Lott. But if they wanted that one-rifle versatility, then it would be a handloaded 416 Rigby. A pleasant, comforting recoil, and flat shooting, with 5500-6000 energy levels in handloads. (Though I'm glad that the 450 Rigby has also been brought into life, it's just a little too close to the 416 for me to justify another rifle. Now a 505 . . . hmmm. But it's just not as versatile as the 416. And the 416 is available in 'normal' priced, factory rifles.)