I’ve got the typical shotguns to hunt with. But, I have a hankering for an older, high comb dbl bbl to carry on some walk about shooting. I’m not retiring my others but just want an older more traditional shooter. Probably a 20g as a weight saving measure.
What is your experience w SxS?

I have and have shot a Stevens model 311 in 20 ga since 1976. It's a great gun for $127 new.

kwg

I have several that I hunt with still.

Great for upland rising birds, especially english stocked OK on decoyed ducks.

2 springfield 5200 16s, an AYA 16 (its like pointing my finger), and a dickenson 12.

Sounds like a great idea. But I have to ask...why a high comb? A shotgun which fits you well is the best answer.
Rick

Model 24s are classy old double guns if you can find one.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...s/8217508/WINCHESTER_Model_24_20_Gauge_D

The older ones I’ve pointed have such drop that they don’t feel right. I’ve pointed one 12g w higher comb and it comes up to cheek very naturally. That’s my finding.

My two hunting shotguns are an Ithaca 100 20, ic and mod, and a Navy Arms 12 ga muzzle loading double, cyl and cyl

Years ago, while TDY to Oklahoma for the military, I was invited on a bird hunt with a buddy of mine working his dog (planted birds). I said sure, but being TDY from Alaska, I obviously didn't have a shotgun with me. Another military TDY guy had an old 1921? Ithaca Lefever 12 ga SXS double trigger. I'd never shot a SXS double trigger in actual hunting, normally using my Winchester 101 OU.

That Lefever was the most natural pointing, shooting, just don't think- react shotgun I've ever shot at actual birds. We cleaned out the partridge that my buddy paid for to train his dog. There were still tons of pheasant on the property that the owner told us to go ahead and take (he later told me that my buddy's dog was the best he'd ever seen, and just wanted to keep seeing her work).

I ended up taking 12 pheasants with that SXS, mostly head shots. And 2 of the birds were true doubles. I gave the guy who loaned me the SXS $200 on the spot, and took it home with me.

I have a beautiful SXS CSMC 20 ga in the classifieds here. Might be what you are looking for.

It is the only long gun I own.....for: hares, pheasant, partridges.



From American classics I recommend A.H. Fox of Philadelphia, Utica or Chicopee Falls. In modern American try to find trigger plate actioned Ruger Gold Label (commonly called round action). New production with reasonable price tag would be Turkish Akus shotguns sold in USA by several companies. There are always used affordable Birmingham made English shotguns in 12ga from extra light 2" guns to 3" wildfowlers. In vintage English guns you want something with heavy proof or 1&1/4oz or more to shoot standard American game loads. There were also numerous game guns from: Italy, Belgium, Japan, France, Germany, Austria and Spain. If you want best bang for buck in game gun it would be old Sakaba (Ithaca-SKB), Ugartechea 30 or a new Akus field grade from Cabelas. These are made and well established pattern of Anson & Deeley sytem of Westley Richards fame. The downside of old guns is they are not steel shot or other hard non-tox shot compatible meaning wit will he very expensive to use them in the future.

Love my SXS's. If anyone has a mint Browning 26" MOD/IMP and wants to sell it let me know

I've got an SKB 12 gauge, the old kind manufactured in the 1990s. Much higher quality than the current versions. Also selectable barrels, flush mounted choke tubes, and an adjustable comb. I hunt with it but prefer my 28 gauge O/U. It takes awhile to get used to the sight plane.

AYA model 2.

I’ve got a nice Yildiz 410 that I’m setting up as a turkey gun. My buddy in Alabama has a stoeger 20 that he likes to turkey hunt with. The yildiz is around 5 lbs and a dream to carry. Nice gun for the money.

It's all I use when I am able to get out. I do have a high comb 410 O/U if you're interested.

I have two 20’s by SKB. A 280, 26”barrel quail shotgun and another that I think is a model 300 ? with 28” barrels, both with English straight grips. I shoot both of them really well...they just fit right.

AYA Matador, 20 gauge, sweet. I traded a 22/250 PO Ackley for it.

I have a 20 gauge Ithaca double. Light as a feather.

Yep. There was a reason the old shotguns of yore had a lot of drop in the buttstock. They wanted meat and that meant shooting in a hurry with head up and they werent worried about a bit of kick to the shoulder.
In those times they didnt consider busting a bunch of clays and wasting shells a good day of shooting.

High comb for trap, no?

Back when sXs were the standard, most had straight stocks and splinter forends. A good sXs points.

Other than waterfowl, for which I use a modern, 3 1/2" gas-operated repeater for open water divers, the only shotgun I hunt with any more is my Merkel 1620, double triggers, straight grip, VZ and 1/2 choke. I also have a Fox Sterlingworth 16 gauge and had an Ithaca 16 gauge SXS that my brother liked so..... I could get it back but won't. Occasionally, I'll use my 12 gauge Ruger Red Label 12 bore, an early 80's gun that has proven to be bulletproof. I usually use the Ruger when I'm going with a group I've never hunted with before and don't want to look too high-falutin', but also don't want to miss anything.

For the life of me, I don't know why anyone with average means would want anything but a refined, 16 gauge SXS to hunt upland birds with. All this blather about chokes and shot sizes....a 16 gauge sxs choked ic and mod or mod and mod or mod and full with 1 1/8 ounces of 5 shot will do anything anyone wants it to do. Quail maybe? okay, 71/2's.

Go with minimum 28" barrels. The short-barrel shotgun nonsense has been exposed as such for decades. A shotgun is all about smooth, coordinated movement: not herky-jerkey throw the sucker up and let off a blast. Don't give me any bullschitt about "Oh, in the New England fugging jungles where I hunt...." No one has hunted grouse and woodcock in thicker schitt than I have. Those who think chopping a couple inches off the barrel of their shotgun (or rifle for that matter) gives them some great advantage would be better off losing 20 pounds and learning how to shoot.

Man, I'm starting to sound like a curmudgeon, aren't I. About fugging time, I've earned it.

I started using an AYA 20ga SXS double at 12, 61 years ago. I shoot a few autoloaders now, but I prefer at DT SXS in general. They have the fastest barrel selection and handle much faster than pumps and autos. Since drillings are essentially a SXS+, I lump them into SXS DT doubleguns.

This Kreighoff Trumpf Dural is light and feels like a find double. I shoot it a lot as an upland double.



This high grade Simson 16ga didn't point well for me, but the new owner says it is radar guided for him.



My favorite is the 12ga SXS half of my two barrel cape gun/SXS set.

I have collected dbbs for 40 years,also International trap O/U.The ou's shoot better but always load a Sxs


when hunting.dale06 has a galazan 20bore in the classified section fancy wood with good stock dems,I think he close on a fair price.The gun is cased in as new condition.JMHO pipeliner

I'd like to find an Ithaca SKB 20G quail special, IM/IM, 25" barrels, a buddy had one one and It's a nice shooting light SXS.

They are all I own, 12's, 16's and 20's.

I like the wide area of the side, by side. My father taught me to point a shotgun, not aim. Up, and lead, shoot. Birds get far away fast.

Well, in West Texas you will lose 20-40% of blue quail you down with 71/2 because by the time you get to where the broke wing birds fell they will be 75 yards away uphill or in desert sand you cant run in or 2-3 feet down a badger hole or burrowing owl hole or under several hundred pounds of pack rat nests 2 feet high and 6 ft across built up through 12 branches of a spreading mesquite.

With low base 20 ga 6's i will beat any gunner with a 12 and high brass 71/2's re birds in the bag at days end.
Wish I had learned to shoot with a sxs.

I have always preferred to go up in shot size, eschewing "pattern density" (a concept important only to gunwriters) for broken bones and penetration through to vitals from behind.

I shoot a lot of different SXS's but I love Philadelphia Foxes in 16 & 20 gauge the most. They shoot where I point or I send them down the road.

What is this??!!! A thread on hunting???
Not politics?

This slender and well-used 16ga Robust No. 4 French double looks like everything killed with it was clubbed to death by it. Ms. Scarlet wasn't too proud to be seen with it. The little SXS is a fast handling and pointing quail and grouse getter.




This slim 16ga Simson is a work in progress for me. I shoot it OK...just OK, though. I'm going to have the right barrel opened from what's now IM to IC.

it's the one on top:

Truth. Thats the difference in shooting them and getting them. 2 7.5s in a big quail going away is an iffy deal. 2 6s in a big quail going away and the odds are in your favor for getting dinner.

Dayom i wish you could buy cheap low brass 5's. They would also be great for squirrels at 35 yards with an IM choke.

A good friend is one of the empty out the auto at every bird, the bird's in the next county by shot three!

I only have a couple but my Ithaca/SKB 200 is my go to. I also like my SKB 385. They both fit and point great!

Beautiful, Ed.

Every 25" SKB I've ever seen is choked Skt/Skt. I'd be curious to see the demarkations denoting IM?

SKB/Ithaca 100/200/280 are affordable choices as is the Charles Daly 500.

For a bit more coin if you can find one the newer late 90's SKB 385/485's are very good quality, have screw-in chokes, and usually had gorgeous wood.

Browning BSS, Beretta 625/626's if you can find them are also good choices that'll have a lot less drop than the guns from say before the 1960's or so.

The SKB 280E quail special is IM/IM, they only made them for a couple of years and didn't make very many of them.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/906203274/280E-Ithaca-SKB-Quail-Special-20-Gauge-In-Box.htm

Those Ithaca SKBs were real sleepers back in the day. They are finely made guns and point nice. I sold a few to knowledgeable customers in the late 1970s. They all came back to thank me. The 280 was about as Classic as they come.

I agree 100%. Bigger shot nails them better. When I rolled my own shotgun ammo I would load some 1 1/8 ounce 5 shot ammo just for quail, and some 1 1/4 ounce loads for the left barrel. 6s did a good job and had a denser pattern. Quail vanish into badger holes and into lava boulder piles and slides out here even when they're dead, I'd swear.

BINGO!

Indy,
I’ve owned a couple of SKB 500’s that I’ve enjoyed. Now my two sons are enjoying them quite a lot!

Hahaha, l2s. Great to see you on.

Yeah...well...

The three boys and I headed over to a ranch outside Fredericksburg 12/23/20 and had more than a lot of fun.

Blue quail are track stars w wings!

Precisely Wabi! I need to smell powder burn!

Dukxdog,
That is a gorgeous shotgun. Congrats.

Been shooting little but sxs for a long time. I've shot guns from virtually everywhere. The last time I was in the buying mode the best sxs gun for the money was, IMHO, an Ugartechea. In fact, Buzz Fawcett ran his shooting school with Ugartecheas and put an astronomical number of shells through their base models. If you can find a used one they can be a bargain as many folks don't recognize their value. Still have a xxv Churchill configured ejector grade and have probably killed more birds with it than any other. Wife has an extractor grade 28. They are often found under the trade name Parker Hale. Do pay attention to the stock drop on other older guns.

I haven't dedicated myself to them, but do love SxS's. Second week of Dove season I use an SKB 100, IC & Mod. If/when I get the chance to hunt quail or grouse, the SKB is what'd used.

Awesome thread men. Good to talk shooting again. I don’t deer hunt anymore. I do pig hunt, turkey hunt. Enjoy quail and dove shooting. I got both knees replaced on February 14,’20 and have healed well, w typical stiffness associated w cool and damp weather. I didn’t hunt last year and am ready to go again...I hope!

Two of my old buddies wanted a more traditional way of shotgunning, so they went blackpowder SXS, and loved it. It just seems like a lot more work to me.

My dad a had a Stevens 311 in 16 gauge. Until I bought my own side by side, I used it to hunt quail, dove and ducks in Oklahoma. I own a half dozen side by side today, a few Spanish made in Eibar, and a couple of Brownings, an old Ithaca, and a Turkish Dickenson set in .410 and 28 gauge. I still have my dad's old Stevens.

Only the fanciest SxS come hunting with me. Anyone able to ID this fine piece?

The only way to go. Cheers NC

Box says "Improved", sure it's not IC rather than IM?

The Quail Special is I/C & I/C. I/M is between Mod & Full, not a good quail choke.

I huntef with a side by side 20 for a few years. I did very well with it on quail. I'm not sure why it just swung well and pointed fast. I'm still interested in a light framed cz 28 but we don't really have quail in East Idaho and I don't think I'll ever move back to Boise.

Bb

Zastava (sp)?

I only have one side by side gun.....a Beretta 471 Silverhawk 20 Ga. with 28" tubes and Mobil chokes. English stock and splinter forend.......every man should own one fine shotgun.

I have used it for Huns. Pheasant, Grouse and Rabbits and Tree Rats.....lightweight and a real joy to carry.

My other "Double" is an O/U 12 ga. Beretta 686 White Onyx......and it just hammers birds!

Used to have several but I sold them ‘cause Slurpy Joe endorsed such things. Soft spot in my heart for a WC Scott 20. Fit like a glove, handled like a wand.

Like two triggers. Tell rookies to put a finger on both at the same time, stand back and laff when they do their first ‘double’.

I use an Ithaca 20 GA. It was made in 1938. Bbls are choked full and modified. Great Dove and Squirrel gun.

That is Russian IZH. Most likely model once imported and sold by Remington as the Spartan.

In the early '70's\ I purchased a 20 ga Ithaca/SKB 280 25"M/IC. It was my only bird gun for years\, In the early 90's I bought a Winchester 21 20 ga 26" S|K & S|K2. The 280 is like fly rod, the 201 a 4x4. I rarely bird hunt any more so the 280 is availably to a good home. Face to face, pm me if you are interested

Used a Browning BSS in 20 gauge for years. But I pretty much quit hunting birds and sold it off. It was a really good gun and fit me well. Lots of pheasants, bobwhites, dove and grouse fell to that gun in my native CO.

Correct, "Improved" is what I meant, that's what I get for drinking and posting on a Friday night. LOL

Used a 311 old school syn stock duck hunting in maine circa 80 to 82.
Touch off both barrels sometimes.
Waylay some high flyers.
4oz of shot on the way Mr I got an O2 mask on...
LOL!!!

Hunted turkey down here in TN from 91 to about 04 with another wood stocked 311.
Installed a Fire sight on the Rib, put a camo gun sleeve on it
Cut a slice for the sights and the breech.
Killed alot of Toms with it.
40 yard gun at best.
Both barrels seemed to be regulated together at 35ish yds.
Both barrel touch offs at several doubles on FTCKY when the situation was right.

Dove hunted with it also.


I dont think I would touch off both barrels in a SxS or O&U if I had one now.
LOL!!!!

I had the same shotgun w/pistol-grip/beavertail. Also a 20/28". I lusted after one for ~20yrs before the $$ and the shotgun crossed paths at the same time. Alas, that 471 had too much drop for me and the only way I could hit with it was to add a 3/4" tall leather riser, covering up some exquisite lumber in the process. I shot a 13wk season of skeet, practice rounds, some sporting clays +/- 500 rounds trying to get things figured out. Last Dec it made someone else a fine Christmas present.

I got to shoot a round of skeet with a custom made for my friend 20ga Holland and Holland. I generously offered to trade him my SKB 20ga 100 for the Holland. He generously declined.

Find yourself an old 16 gauge sterlingworth. . . your search will be over.

BEFORE you buy read the book, "The Orvis Guide to Gunfitting" by Tom Deck..................................................

Thanks again all. Good to talk hunting and shooting again. It calms the beast somewhat.

I think you’re right, my 280 has 25” barrels and I could be wrong but I think it’s bored IC/Mod. The other is definitely IC/Mod with silver nitride receiver.

I like to do some upland hunting with an old Sauer 20.

My favorite is a Ithica 200e. It was choked M&F. I had Briley open up the full barrel to improved modified. I use number
6 shot on blue quail. Works for me. Hasbeen

This in 28 is my itch that needs scratching. Have in my safe a Beretta 471 Silver Hawk 12 gauge SxS, Merkel Model 8 12 gauge SxS, Ugartechea 20 gauge SxS Beretta 695 O&U 20 gauge and a Beretta 686 Onyx Pro O&U in 28 gauge. My Semi autos for waterfowl only.

I have a No, 2 in 28. It is sweet but I had troubles with barrel regulation; right barrel shot low. Basque's at the time brazed their barrels instead of soldering, which they may still do. It's strong but in smaller gauges can introduce distortion in regulation. make sure you have an understanding with whoever you buy it from, that they will stand behind it and HOW the problem would be resolved. If you buy used, check it ASAP. Good luck, they are sweet Mine is 25 years old.

Nice old gun, even appears to have intercepting sears and a rebated stock. I like the engraving which is a bit atypical for a German gun, IMO. How's the fit for you?

Good advice here. A quality made 16ga SxS should weigh in the neighborhood of 6.5lbs - running right alongside a similar 20ga in weight, allowing comfortable carry throughout a long day in the field. I've a short-chambered Sauer for which I use the B&P F2 Classic load (1 oz of #5s) - thumps the snot out of my ND roosters and sharptails. Also functions through my Remington M11, my Winchester 1897 (also short chambered), and my Citori - making it a do-all load for me, which I buy by the case.

FYI - Scheels in Fargo, ND has a Dickinson 16ga in their display case for $1599 - Straight grip, checkered butt, case-hardened receiver, 28 inch barrels with interechangeable chokes, extractors. I'm not in love with case-hardening and the gun felt a bit heavy to me, but it sure pointed nice.

Kaiser Norton

Where are Berger Helice SXS's made? Are they decent shotguns?

I saw this: https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...weight-sxs-bird-gun.cfm?gun_id=101560291

Ha, while looking on Gunsinternational, two SXS sold while watching.

There have been several recommendations for Fox Sterlingworths. Quite agree. There are many good reasons why. AH Fox guns have very few moving parts and their bolting mechanism is virtually self tightening because it employs a rotary bolt that engages a barrel extension. They also, in my experience have a nice dynamic feel. I have an ejector grade 20 with 30 in. tubes. It is sweet and a real bird smacker. As with all these old guns one needs to plan for a bit of stock adjustment. I restocked mine with an English style straight rhomboid grip. Did it myself and learned a lot about stock fit. If you do it yourself, you won't be out much using a plain grade of walnut. It was fun and the gun is a real classic upland piece. ;-{>8

Plus 1

It “should carry like a 20 and kick like a 12” which is perfect for a bird gun.

Looks French to me. The word Acier that is stamped on the barrel means steel in French. The very first shotgun I ever bought was French and had Acier Special stamped on the barrel. I still have it. For years I thought is was a boxlock but upon further inspection found it had a lock plate mechaniism, At first glance, that gun appears to have quite a bit of drop on the stock.

It “should carry like a 20 and kick like a 12” which is perfect for a bird gun. [/quote]


That's not how I remember it. ;-{>8

That’s how I remember it as told by my grandpa when I was a young kid. Maybe I got the cleaned up version?? He hated the full choked single shot 12 “that shot like a rifle and kicked liked a mule” while outback behind the house pheasant hunting or road hunting during the depression..

The sell phrase for the 16 gauge was, "It carries like a 20 and kills like a 12" which, depending on certain factors, is IMHO, true.

You can't put a 16 on a 12 frame and expect this to be true and like all other physics, you can't expect, nor do you need to, put a 12 load in it and expect not to get pounded.

You sound like you know what you're talking about, but as I recall the thing was stamped 'Baikal'. And yes, Russian made and sold under the Remington brand. Good call. It was kind of clunky but did fine when afield, but ultimately it was taken duck hunting in the salt marsh. After a couple of times getting sprayed with saltwater, on future hunts you could practically watch the barrels turning orange with rust before your eyes. So, it now lives in Texas with a hairy dude. Too much bother for me to have to meticulously clean a shotgun after every single outing.

I bought a Ithaca/SKB model 100 in 20ga from a fellah here a couple years back, and that little thing carries great and shoots damned well. Lots of upland critters--mostly birds--to its credit. I'm a 12ga guy really, but there's a lot to love about that 20. If it had an available third shot I'd take it everywhere, for everything!

25" or 26" bbls? I've owned 2 w/26's that were IC/Mod. The 25" I had was Skt/Skt.

THAT made my tongue hard!

Has 65mm chambers, too. The chokes will be real tight in a gun of the 65mm chamber vintage. It's been opened up underneath by someone who didn't know doubles. Still, it's a nice field grade SXS.

SxS are my favorite hunting shotgun. Might be because I started out with an old 12 ga Stevens 311 hammer double. Here is my Dickinson Estate 16 ga. A little chunky at 6 3/4 lbs, but works fine with heavy pheasant loads.

That one looks pretty plain next to cheesy's 100+ year old German 16 built by Venus Gun Works on a Sauer forging. FANCY wood, horn trigger guard and buttplate, weighs just under 6 lbs.

Beautiful, thanks.

I'll say it. Side by sides are cool if you don't really care about hitting something.

my father was a sxs guy scoffed pumps and autos. That was the greatest generation, I'm a boomer. Beretta 390 for me

Looks like pot stirrer boredom syndrome to me.


Two word reply: Percy Stanbury

Merkel 141 Double,

8 x 57 JRS (8mm Mauser, Rimmed)



I call it the triple double!

Works for me.


and the Latest,



CSMC RBL Professional, SXS 20 gauge Sabot DR.........

Test target



Regulated for Winchester Sabots.


Hope to perforate some porkers with it in the next week or so!

Ya!

GWB

simson or merkel

Arrieta 903 SXS, 16 Ga.




Armas Ugartechea. 28 ga SXS

Arrieta 903 SxS, 16 Ga.




Hulu Ringneck, 28 ga. SXS


ya!


GWB

Pat Powell is a righteous dude, and hits more clays with a bent barrel shotgun than I can keep up with!

Ask me how I know!

ya!
GWB

The first shotgun I ever used, over 40 years ago, was a SxS, a 20 ga. Killed my first ducks with it, as well as a lot of rabbits.

I still have a soft spot for a SxS. A particular favourite is my Krieghoff, which not only has SxS 16 ga barrels but a 7x57R beneath, and yet weighs only 6 lb bare. That little gun handles and swings so nicely, even with its short barrels - only 22" or so. An ounce of shot, or maybe 1 1/8, seems to do anything I want to do with it, and I've taken various birds, rabbits, foxes, pigs, goats and other critters with it.

I also like the Brno ZP 49. These are a real sidelock, mine a dual trigger with ejectors and a straight-hand stock. Quite a light gun too, and again best suited to 1 - 1 1/8 oz loads.

I've shot a good number of others. A couple I remember fondly were my mate's Boss, which he inherited, a Dickson which another mate had, and (perhaps at the other end of the scale as far as fancy guns go) a Savage 20 ga which I borrowed one afternoon, with which I killed a running hare with each and every shot in the box of cartridges.

Yes, they do tend to have really nice wood on them, given their price range. Frankly I don't use mine nearly enough. Haven't fired it in probably 6 years.....overdue I reckon. I just couldn't get used to the looks of the pistol grip/Beavertail forend enough to want one....hence why I chose the English straight grip and splinter.....may make a difference. They sure are purty little things!

When I retire....I am hoping to spend the rest of my lifetime chasing enough birds to wear that thing out.....LOL

Frog---OUT

To be sure, there's words of wisdom in what Pat says. If you don't believe it.....attend any major Trap Championship and count how many SxS guns you see in use by the Top shooters......bet you don't need more than one hand. Hell.....bet you don't need one finger! LOL

Ya don't see many sports cars hauling wheat either.

You don't see too many trap guns in the upland fields either, for some reason.

I've hunted with sxs for over 50 years. Never had any trouble killing things with them, except grouse, which I still have a fair amount of trouble with, regardless of the shotgun. For pheasants these days, I prefer a 12 gauge Charles Moore hammer gun built probably in the 1880s or early 1890s. Prettiest gun I own and a hammer of Thor on roosters.

I wouldn't shoot anything else given the choice.

I understand your point.......however, for purely accurate shooting at a flying target, most experts tend to prefer a stack barrel. Now I agree, they don't have to lug those 30" plus guns across hill and dale......so people make concessions for the choices they decide upon.

Truth is, it's a love affair. I've owned and shot, in the field o/u guns but just cold not fall in love with them. And, I don't have to. Further, in rough shooting, I am not convinced of the superiority of an o/u, but if I could bag 20% more birds with one, it wouldn't matter. The whole sport is a love affair.

To many of my hunting buds the sport is a game where one keeps track of scores; not me. I am there for far more personal reasons than keeping score. Shooting a sxs is a connection to my father and grandfather. So is the entire sport. ;-{>8

That’ll preach Old Trapper!