This is a hour and a quarter sermon. His message comes right from God's Word, the Bible. If you watch it, let me know what you think, please.

NO.

Nope.

Our current female pastor makes a lot more sense of the Bible than the last 5 male pastors combined. Too bad she's retiring soon.

No

If they're married, they do it all the time. "Speaker of the House!"

No.

Absolutely.

On a similar note, preachers shouldn't fondle little boy either.

There are many very godly and helpful ministries women can participate in. I often think women who want to occupy the pulpit are more about making a self centered statement.

Ooe of em got everybody ran out of Paradise. What could go wrong?

No

exactly !

No sir

Phagguts either

What could go wrong?

It's in the Bible.

Women shouldn't be preachers.


But, that doesn't mean they can't speak and minister to people.

My Mother was a woman, more than that she was a Lady, a Lot of the Faith I have today, she taught me.

I don’t know but I don’t see why not.

I’d be more concerned with getting rid of the male preachers that have no business preaching or being in the company of free citizens before I’d be denying women that love and know the Lord from spreading that love.

When Dad passed in 1988, we asked for donations to purchase new hymnals for our church which, at that time, had a female pastor.

My then-wife refused to attend the dedication service for the new books because of her belief that women cannot preach.

Your wife has Scriptural support. The female pastor is in rebellion toward God. It seems guys who will tolerate a woman pastor are close to being effeminate.

Only white conservative men should preach. Cmon man

MacArthur is generally spot on biblically. 1 Timothy 2 is pretty clear on the subject.

Let's forget 1 Corinthians for a moment. Let's discuss Romans 16, which seems to refer to several women who are active in the early church, including one that's a deacon.


Romans 16:1-12 (NIV)
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon[a][b] of the church in Cenchreae. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.

3 Greet Priscilla[c] and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. 4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.

5 Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

6 Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you.

7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[d] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

8 Greet Ampliatus, my dear friend in the Lord.

9 Greet Urbanus, our co-worker in Christ, and my dear friend Stachys.

10 Greet Apelles, whose fidelity to Christ has stood the test.

Greet those who belong to the household of Aristobulus.

11 Greet Herodion, my fellow Jew.

Greet those in the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord.

12 Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord.

Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.




So we note that there are several women noted throughout this letter, and not one word is said about them preaching or not preaching. In fact, Phoebe seems to be addressed as a church leader. What to make of this?

Honestly though, if we look at what was going on during early Christianity, we know that the scriptures had to be hand copied in order to be passed from one group of Christians to another. This was being done when only 5% of the population could read, and even fewer people could write. Many of the people copying these scriptures had their own views on things, and there was a debate in the early centuries of the Church as to whether women could be in positions of power. So I'm saying it's pretty likely that the verses in 1 Corinthians that bar women from preaching did not originate from Paul, but originated from somebody else who was transcribing these letters to pass on to somebody else.

Jim Bakker was white.

A prerequisite for a woman to preach should be driving a car well. And also she should be a good cook and have sex with her husband anytime and anywhere. Then it’s possible she’d make a good preacher.

What if he wants to do it during the sermon?

So is a male also making a self centered statement?

Sounds like Wabi’s church

No.... I've met several of them.

Paul covered this topic in 1st Timothy:


1 timothy 2:11-15 NIV -

11 A woman[ a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[ b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[ c] will be saved through childbearing—if they


Women can preach to women.

I got no problem with it. I know a woman pastor who’s conservative as all getout! She carries an AR-15.

My Mom too. Mom started volunteering as an organist at church when she was 12 or 13 and NEVER missed a Sunday until Mom had open heart surgery. Mom missed 1 Sunday when she had open heart surgery and 1 Sunday when she was battling breast cancer but that was it. Growing up Mom taught piano lessons and was the organist and choir director at church for extra money for the house since 5 kids were not cheap but that also meant that us kids went to church faithfully. All the time Mom was at church working so too we’re us kids. We’d usually be outside playing at church on Wednesday nights when Mom had choir practice. Our pastor was awesome…he was a MAN from the greatest generation and a chaplain in Korea that loved hunting. He’d know how much time I had to kill while Mom did her job/s and tell me that the starlings needed to be thinned out giving me something to do. I’d spent countless hours on church grounds hunting non-native species and having a blast. Hundreds or more likely thousands of hours I spent at that church and ALL my memories are wonderful memories of a simpler time.

Mom always said that if she hit the lottery she would continue to work and not miss a Sunday but she wouldn’t get paid. Mom was as close as I’ve knowingly come to living Saint. My mom was full of love, patience and kindness in quantities I’ve never seen since. Mom was slow to anger and quick to make up never carrying anger or animosity in her heart. Mom had a faith that I used to pray that I’d have someday….her trust in the Lord was amazing to me! I thought Mom was as perfect a Christian as anyone could be, including Mother Theresa, but as I’ve matured in my understanding and in my faith I realize that Mom was no better or worse in the Lord’s eyes but in my eyes Mom WAS PERFECT…the perfect mother, the perfect friend and ally, the perfect Christian, the perfect home maker and the perfect human. Based upon how lost dad is everyday since Mom has gone Home…….I’m sure that if I asked dad about his middle school girlfriend and lifelong partner dad would tell me that Mom was the perfect wife too. Mom was the perfect role model for our Christian faith for us kids when we were growing up and ALL of us have a close, personal relationship with the Lord.

The 2 things Mom had told me (I’m the oldest) in the later years that she desired most for us kids were 2 things that were already carved in stone and I doubt we could’ve changed them even if we wanted to. Mom wanted us “kids” to always get along and love each. Mom didn’t want distance or the busyness of life to get in between the love we have for each other. I promised Mom that since I’m the oldest I would be sure that us brothers and sisters stayed close and that no pettiness would interfere with our relationships. I’m fortunate because I don’t have to nurture and attend to the relationships of my siblings because we just naturally love each other. My younger brother is excellent about getting everyone together and he is 1 person in this world that if I or any of my siblings was in trouble in Shanghai he’d be on the first plane there and he wouldn’t leave until I was safe….I’m the same way. The other most important request for her children other than loving each other was to KNOW and LOVE God! Mom wanted each of us to know and love God like Mom loved God. I never thought I could be as close to the Lord as Mom was but I sure wanted to! Thanks to the example Mom set I feel that my relationship and love of the Lord is just as strong as Mom’s which is an extremely strong statement for me to make. My relationship with the Lord is the foundation of my life and my love for Him is what I imagine Mom felt for Him but I’m sure our individual relationship with the Lord is slightly different.

My Mom was as close to a Saint as anyone I’ve ever known and I so look forward to being reunited someday in the distant future….what a reunion that will be. I HAVE to do my best in this life so that NOTHING interferes with giving Mom a kiss and having her perfume linger on my whiskers….the little things that never even registered back then become sentimental memories of enormous happiness…

in my Christian church Luther wrote NO

Methodist church local here got sent 5 women preachers in a row it went to schit last I heard there’s 4 in attendance on Sunday including the organist and the preacher

The qualification for deacons are different than that for elders, among other more stringent requirements,elders must be able to teach and both must be the husband of one wife, so how can a woman be a deacon? The Bible is also very clear on who is qualified to preach(teach) in church….elders(men). A woman is instructed to learn in silence in a church setting. The man is given spiritual authority over his family by God. These things are very clearly stated in the Word.

A male is ordained by God, Who is the creator of the Church.

I find it amusing that some believe that women are not equal to men in God's eyes and that there are so many different perceptions about men vs. women in religion, which is why I do not and never will participate in organized religion.

As a man that has deep faith that considers Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savoir, I believe that upon our deaths, all of us (men and women) who are true believers and accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, will all live for eternity in heaven.

Personally, I prefer the company of women and have my entire life, men are not something I want to cuddle with, but I do enjoy drinking, hunting, and fishing with my fellow man. After that, it's ladies, all about the ladies, call me sick.

KB

No, women should not preach

No

Not publicly

If you know what the Word is, then you know the answer to your question.

I don’t really give a rip.

Only one stipulation - they should have someone else drive them to the church.

I don’t know if you get out much but based on your observations I’d say you probably don’t.

I’m undecided on the issue because I’ve always had a man for my pastor which is different from a “male” pastor. I do barely recall that Pastor had to get heart surgery and cancer surgery (iirc) and was expected to be out for a year or so and we needed a long term interim pastor. I was a child at the time and didn’t have any input but I quietly followed the process and overheard conversations. I don’t know how it went down but the “board” decided on a woman which I don’t think was well received. I thought she did an excellent job and she seemed to me at the time like a woman that had every qualification required by man and she certainly seemed to love the Lord. I didn’t consider at the time that were politics involved.

There are a lot of male pastors that are either most definitely gay or they are the epitome of effeminate. Some denominations seem to seek the most effeminate for their pastor and others seem to choose the most effeminate for their youth leaders so I don’t agree with your generalization.

As mentioned I’m undecided but if you met me I guarantee you that the last impression you would have of me would be that I’m effeminate. 😂

Amen brother! 😀

Never let a woman drive a car when you are a passenger unless you enjoy cardiac arrest!

KB

No

This Ringman dummy is great!


Like dumpster fire great.

You better not have anything heavy in your pockets when rapture comes....

Watch the sermon and then get back to me. The sermon is strictly from God's Word. What you call "generalization" is from studying God's Word.

I quit going to church all together can sleep in and score pu$$y and get a good breakfast👍🤣

AMEN BROTHER!

KB

That.

1st Timothy covers it. IMO. You can disagree with the Bible or the Constitution but you can’t in good faith pick and choose which parts you want to follow.

The number of catholic priests has declined by 40-ish% in the last fifty years.

I think a lot of women would like to be priests, and a lot of men would be priests if they could marry.

At some point, it's gonna be decision time if there's to be a continuation of the faith for generations to come.

Only after marriage........

Hell to the NO.

There certainly should be female priests. A 12 year old alter boy would be much better off being raped by a female priest vs a male.

LOL we were married by a woman pastor over 30 years ago and I know there are still some in my family who think its illegitimate. Hahaha. Plenty of men out there screwing up being pastors, I don't see why we should have to bear the burden of f'ing up Christianity...the chicks can share that misery.

Generally, I think the big rub is that some believe that no woman can be a pastor (true) and that any man can be (false). The gender restriction, based upon the order of creation, is but one qualification. Most men don't qualify either.

NEVER

I'd rather they preach than vote.

You brain washed bible thumpers are so f====d up

Closet gay and open gay pedo preachers are the biggest problem.I’ll be fugked if either teach my children anything on the Bible.About as far as women in the church should go is Sunday school teacher.

Huge difference between a woman teaching her children about the things of God (which they, as a parent, are commanded to do) and leading/preaching in a congregation of believers (which they clearly are not commanded to do or even shown to be allowed to do).

Nor should they drive or appear in public without a head covering.

Nothing can interfere, if you are in Christ.

If you are not in Christ, nothing you can do will be good enough.

All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Faith alone, by grace alone.

God saves sinners, by grace, through faith in Christ alone.

Mine was a woman too Wabi. Dad was a man though.

AMEN Tarbe, that exactly what I believe.

God bless!

KB

I'm not going to tell a woman who has been called by God to preach, not to preach. That's honestly between her and God.

Johnny Mac is a good pastor, but he has used the name of the Lord to chase the almighty dollar pretty hard in his lifetime.

If God wants to talk to me through a woman, who am I to argue?




P

According to a lot of Clergymen, no.

Then he’s not a good pastor. The teachings of Jesus are complete at odds with materialism. It’s impossible to follow the teachings of Jesus and accumulate wealth simultaneously

How many of use could do a better job?

No!

Ron

I don't agree that you can't be a follower of Christ and accumulate wealth. That's not found anywhere in the Bible. But, it doesn't make you wonder when Ol' Johnny Mac has 3 mansions and a net worth of 14 mil.

My Aunt is a Methodist Minister and a darn good one. Her sermons are filled with real life experiences and she is one of the most down to earth people I have ever met.

Hahaha!

Yep.

Which begs the question, do trannies still count?

Can we start a "why is Christianity shrinking" thread next?

And then scratch our heads and say I dunno.

Maybe it has to do with Male Pedophile Priests?

KB

Women can totally be spiritual leaders.

But only in certain religions.

Having read that many times over the years, I also went to the NIV and found this:

"A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet."

To date, I don't have a strong opinion in either direction, and so far am unable to stretch that Scripture to read "A woman cannot preach".

Is it not plausible that the statement above has to do with how a woman should "learn", and that she is not to "teach or assume authority over a man".

Please enlighten how that translates to "shall not preach", in the sense of presenting a sermon. Thanks.

Or millionaire preachers in their mansions and private jets?

Unequivocally and not worthy of debate…NO!

Where in the bible is that? Is that something Jesus said?

I am positive that all Levite priests were men. And I've been told that back in the day only a married man could be a Rabbi. An East Indian that I knew was a believer in Jesus and he believed that Jesus being a Rabbi would have been married.

It does seem that lady preachers/pastors and deacons/elders/trustees are a recent thing although in the 1800s Mary Baker Eddy ran the Christian Science outfit.

Except she is in disobedience to the very God she to serve.

I don’t care for lady pastors, wifey doesn’t either

Except she is in disobedience to the very God she to serve.

I answered this in another thread. I is very simple. Evolution, in any form, is anti God. It has been force on the public schools for a couple generations now. What else would you expect?

Watch the video.

The Bible says NO. However, with modern religion such as we see today, it's up to each church to decide.

[Matt 7:13 KJV]
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:


I don't go for popular or woke.

I humbly seek guidance from the Word.

We don't have women preachers, nor do they teach men. We feel that is how God intended it so we follow that policy.

Why shouldn't they? The have plenty of practice from doing it at home for years. Regardless of what God said.

They should do better if getting paid for it, whores sure do. Regardless of what God said.

Come on, guys, WTH does God know?

Oh yeah, I forgot. HE knew that to keep JESUS form sinning, HE had to tell Him not to marry any women.

In my younger days there were plenty in the preceding generation that believed it was wrong for a woman to work outside the home for pay. Farmwives were not given demerits for helping out on the family farm and black women and poor whites were ok for picking cotton or hoeing crops for pay on the farm they were housed on or a neighbor's farm they were loaned to.

No.

Actually it's you.


You are the reason.

Oh My!

One thing is for sure about you Jim, you don't sugarcoat your answers.

It's a good way to be. Cuts down on confusion.

"Nor should they drive or appear in public without a head covering."

Whatever the mythology of your choice dictates. To be safe, follow them all.
RB

Speaking of religion

If one is humble, the Scripture is quite clear what women's station in the church is.

Sorry, Charlie. Folks were leaving the church before I became boisterous.

There's nothing in the Bible that says that wealth is a sin. What it does come down to, paraphrased, is
1. did you get it honestly and honorably?
2. would you give it up willingly if God asked you to?
The bible covers those 2 questions thoroughly.

Depends………

So, you folks that think women shouldn't preach.

Do you make your wives and female kids wear a head covering?

Ankle length skirts?

Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed reading this.

Those are a misreading of scripture. It appears in a couple OT books that men and women are prohibited from wearing each other's clothing as it's an abomination to God. It's not talking about women wearing jeans. Styles of clothing are determined by the local custom, not by anything in scripture. These verses are talking about cross dressing, trying to be the opposite sex. Transvestites. Sound familiar?

OK, but what about the head covering?

https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-6.htm

nobody is listening anyway , so let them preach.

I think you are correct on this and anyway there weren't any blue jeans back then. Moses had a lot to contend with as he governed his nomadic tribe and he couldn't put up with a bunch of homo cross dressing or behavior. A lot of Mosaic law was grounded in promoting health and harmony.

I don't think head covering was an OT thing. Where is that in the bible?

You didn't get to God's definition of head covering. 1 Corinthians 11:15
"but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her. For her hair is given to her for a covering." Whose the Giver?

It all sounds so familiar for some reason...

Here comes the rule book.

I grew up in church but I must’ve missed that day….what happens to the heathen woman preacher? Let’s assume that her knowledge of Scripture is thorough, her message accurate and her teachings are sound but she is a woman that preached God’s word, loved Jesus as her Lord and Resurrected Savior and performed as good as any man at spreading the Good News?

Never mind the fact that she sometimes wore pants and only wore a head covering when she wore a ball cap to her son’s baseball game alongside her devoted husband. Her husband gave up preaching to help his wife at her big church….(just a little fuel for the fire of misogynistic angst and confusion 😀)

No amount of twisting things around like a two dollar lawyer to two bit politician, the Apostle Paul said let a woman keep silent during services. That is the end of the debate far as I am concerned.

Women make great cops, soldiers and firemen, why not preachers…

🤣🤣🤣

Nope. They can't be ordained into the priesthood. But there are plenty of other duties they can and should attend to.






If you can't trust them to vote and participate in government, how the hell could you trust them with your soul?

No flame intended.

It's ironic how we folk think we have to help God keep His church going on earth when in reality He is in total control of everything and does not need our helping hand in the "continuation of the faith".

By saying this, we are putting God at our pathetic level. He does not need our help for anything. All we have to do is follow God's word (in this respect, no women pastors) and let God do the rest.

..... because God said no. Who are we to say otherwise?

I’m pretty sure that was tongue firmly in cheek

Wasn’t there a thread awhile back about declining number of folks going to church?

And y’all worried about who brings the message to those that do attend??

#sheesh!

In retrospect, you're probably right. More coffee will fix that oversight.

Read post #18370609

Good Lord, only someone unmarried would post that question

What did Jesus say about that? You quoted that letter writer who claimed he could talk to Jesus, saw visions, and went on a trip to heaven. Most likely he was gay, bipolar, or schizoid with a heavy dose of narcissism.

You're right, Jesus did say that.

What He didn't say is that ALL would be deceived which means that not all that come in His name are false prophets.


If you count Paul as a false prophet, you have taken the bait.

This thread beats the best chainsaw threads hands down. Hahahahaha

+1 wow

Are you sure?

LOL.

Like there was ever any doubt about Hastings.

Let me ask a question to any of the "because God said so" people.

Taking into consideration that you are reading something that God told the early church more than 2000 years ago, is it just possible that God didn't want women preachers then because of the social status that women held? Is it just possible that a rule given 2000 years ago no longer applies especially considering other scriptures like Gal.3:28?

When Jewish men prayed, they covered their heads with a prayer shawl. In the NT, Paul said that men should not cover their heads. But, he was talking to the Greeks, not the Jews. It's not a conflict of scripture but rather a conflict of customs. It's how you show respect to the Lord. They used to pray holding their hands in the air. Now the prevalent custom is to bow the head. In some churches you see both.
When I was young, all women wore hats in church and men always wore ties. Now days, very few do. In Bible times, prostitutes wore their hair short. I don't know if that was a law or advertising their businesses. Virtuous women wore their hair long. Those customs no longer exist.

My opinion is that dress codes vary with the times. As long as you honor the Lord, do clothes matter?

I don’t need to watch the video and have not.

Someone made the observation that a woman who wants to preach may be doing so to stroke her own ambitions. I know of such a woman. She did preach. She was later exposed for the tremendous sin in her life and she lost her profession in ministry.

Men and women are equal in God’s eyes. But they have unique and distinctly different roles in the church, in marriage, and in the family.

Another person made reference to the NIV translation. Please consider using either the NASB or ESV translations. They are more of a word-for-word translation whereas the NIV leans more toward being a thought-for-thought translation. Be careful in selection of a study Bible - the Life Application study Bible has some comments that directly contradict the scripture they are explaining.

We cannot cherry-pick the scriptures. Jesus is the manifestation of God’s Word. To cherry-pick the scriptures is to create your own version of Jesus - and your created Jesus has no power to save you.

When we debate the “rightness” of a scripture, we are placing ourselves above God and believe our judgment is superior to his.

If you reject any or all of Paul’s writings, you are cherry-picking.

However, there is one situation that I don’t know how to answer. What about the situation where there is no male preacher? I have a female Christian friend in China whose preacher is a female - there is no option for a male preacher. None of the men are willing to step up and become a preacher. I would appreciate hearing the perspectives from fellow believers.

Good points! It is the heart and the intention of the heart that matters, not the law.
That is the meaning of 2 Cor.3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”

I appreciate your insight. A bunch.

Hebrews 13:8 KJV Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.

Women in the pulpit, is in actuality, more a biological than theological concern...

Men Preach.
Women Screech!

women preaching is like when we gave women the right to vote .i have seen what both have done to this country ..and it is not for the good liberal or conservitive .women base their decisions on emotions ,not facts or what it right.notice most women preachers are pushing the gay agenda in the churches

No.

Please read Romans 13:1-6 and tell us what you think. Hitler, Stalin, or Biden probably like(d) that chapter.

Do I think the Bible is God’s inspired word. So that being said do you think God has power over all things. I do. So I don’t think God would allow his word to be misinterpreted. Or for that matter translated wrong.
But we have a lot of dominations. Each have their ideas on how to improve Gods word. Hasbeen

OK, but that doesn't refute my question in the least. That scripture doesn't mean that God doesn't change the instructions he gives people over time and situation. The scriptures are full of examples of how God's instructions changed over time and according to situation. All that Hebrews 13:8 proves is that God has always changed instructions over time and situation.

Thanks for your thought.

No matter how much I dislike the current administration, I am subject. The only time I would not be subject is when I would be forced into sin by the leaders.

God will allow us to be subject to bad leaders - look at all the examples in the Old Testament. This is discipline from God. He disciplines us because we are his legitimate children. Today, Christians badly need God’s discipline - we are living in great sin. The circumstance will not change until we repent, confess our sin, turn to God and pray.

The only way God could keep anyone from misinterpreting ANYTHING would be to take away your freedom of choice and only allow you to think only what he wanted you to think.

I've heard that bit before mostly from someone wanting to give more credit to his particular version of the truth. What we all need do instead is to look at scripture from every possible angle and in every possible light and use the Holy Spirit in us to find the truth. I honestly think really saved people know truth in their heart if they can get all their bias out of the way.

I would agree but I look at the situation from a different aspect. I don't see God as a king sitting and punishing his subjects for doing wrong by making them suffer. That bias comes from interpreters living under a monarchy.

Human beings simply can't learn or grow without struggle. That struggle requires that you make choices. The pain and suffering are the result of wrong choices, and you cannot learn to make right choices without them. It's the yen and yang principal. It's why you can't have anything without opposites. There is no big unless you have a small to compare it to. There is no love without hate. God made the system because it is the only one that works. He did however give us some good instructions as to how to live the best lives we can and warn us what would happen if we didn't follow those instructions.

Not in my religion and you're nuts if you think I'm going to listen to an hour and a quarter sermon. If you can't say what you need to in 15-20 min, you need to find a new profession.

Anyone can preach.

The question that needs asked is why would you listen?

I take it you wouldn't have been eating any miracle loaves and fishes supper had you lived in Jesus's day?

Yes, and when someone starts to preach like Jesus preached in his day people will have a reason to listen.

Jesus just went around telling the truth. It's everybody else calling it preaching and their idea of what that means that causes problems.

Q: If your wife is hollering to be let in at the front door, and the dog is barking at the back door for the same reason, who do you let in first?


A: The dog, because once you let him in, he’ll shut up.

The bible commands ALL believers to go into the world and preach the Gospel, so yes, women are supposed to preach. As far as being the pastor of a congregation, NO! The bible is clear on qualifications for a pastor. Preaching and pastoring are not the exact same thing.

So the conflict, in wording or interpretation, would be between 1 Corinthians 11:10 , New King James Version

and 1 Cor 11:15 which doesn't mention her hair being a "symbol of authority"

Do we have any students of ancient Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic languages that can tell us which interpretation might be correct?

I mean, over the course of 2000+ years, might it be possible that "a symbol of authority" actually means a "head covering" and not the hair covering her head?

Here's the problem with your story. You say her message is accurate. If that's the case then she would include women should be quiet in church.

The answer is an unequivocal NO! Apostle Paul learned from Jesus. He told us the reason a woman should not teach a man or have authority over a man is because Eve was deceived. Period. You opinion of time not withstanding.

Jesus Christ is the same, today, yesterday, and forever.

You want to use One Scripture to neuter Another Scripture?

How'd women etc as pastors work out for UMC?

What was the need for Constantine and the Nicean Council?

Was Arius wrong?

How could God let that happen?

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving

Hahahaha. HAHAHAHAHA. What a leap.

The Apostle Paul was not even born when Jesus was alive. Most of the New Testament is attributed to Paul but his followers wrote most of it. Most of the Christian teaching is from the Gospel of Paul and not Jesus. Plus the Bible books have been changed many times to fit mans ideas of how people should behave and to control the population. That is a fact.

I don't know how much of Paul's and Jesus' lives overlapped or didn't but I believe they did. If you read the book of Acts from chapter 21 until Paul is eventually put on a boat for Rome it is pretty clear that the First Christians, the ones closest to Jesus had figured him out and Paul would probably not survived the exposure had not the Roman army intervened and gotten their agent away and so to speak put him in their version of a witness protection program.

Nothing else about that affair makes much sense. If the Jerusalem Christians figured him out and as Paul himself said "all of Asia has turned away from me" , those two things cast a tremendous doubt on Paul as a spokesman for Jesus. Especially when the book of James and the Revelation clearly dispute Paul's doctrine.

It's a shame for a woman to speak in the Church.

If you read the verses about women keeping silent in church in context, you can easily see that it is only said in response to a particular problem. New converts were coming into this new faith. Men started bringing their wives, but the men had been listening for a while. The women were asking questions so much during service that no progress was being made and so Paul instructed them to let them keep silent in church and instruct them at home, or in today's words bring them up to speed at home. Context means everything.

Paul did not give a rule from God for all time for women to be silent in church. There are also many good examples of women preaching in the bible.

1. “Outstanding among the apostles” (Romans 16:7)
The following women often get overlooked, but even though we do not have long stories about them, their leadership still is recorded in the Bible. There is Anna, who was a prophet (Luke 2:36) along with the four daughters of Philip who also prophesied (Acts 21:9). A “prophet” in the biblical sense, is a truth-teller delivering God’s message to the world — in other words, a preacher. More descriptively, a preacher who can pack a punch. There is also Phoebe, who was a deacon (Romans 16:1), and Junia, who the Bible describes, not only as an apostle, but an outstanding one (Romans 16:7).

Priscilla, along with her husband, is someone Paul names as a “co-worker” in Christ, and in Acts 18, Priscilla teaches Apollos, a “learned man, with a thorough knowledge of scripture.” Despite his considerable expertise, Priscilla is able to explain “the way of God more adequately” to him, and he expresses no dismay at her gender. In many of the passages where she is mentioned, Priscilla’s name is listed before her husband’s, which is noteworthy in a culture that usually placed husband’s names first, suggesting Priscilla, rather than Aquila, was the leader of this particular couple. So far the women in scripture are defying that “complementarian” business by a landslide, and I’m only just getting started.

2. “They told all these things” (Luke 24:9)
Did you know the very first Christian preachers were all women? In all four gospels, women are the first to learn of Christ’s resurrection when he appears to them, and they are the very first people to share this news with others. Depending on which gospel you read, the first proclaimer is either Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9-10 and John 20:17-18), Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew 28:8-10), or Mary, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and others (Luke 24:9-10). The first time the story of the resurrection is told, it is proclaimed by a woman. If women had “kept silent in the church,” there wouldn’t be a church.

3. “Because of the woman's testimony” (John 4:39)
We usually know her as the “Woman at the Well,” but I prefer to think of her as the "Woman Who Abandoned Her Water Jar," because after talking with Jesus, the Living Water, John 4:28 reports that she left her jar behind to go tell the people about Jesus. She left behind what she came to the well to do because she found more important work. Shortly thereafter, the text reports that many Samaritans believed in Christ because of her testimony (4:39), demonstrating she was quite the effective evangelist. The conversation Jesus has with her in John 4 is the longest recorded conversation Jesus has with anyone. Why would Jesus spend all that time talking theology with a woman if he didn’t want her to tell anyone about it? He doesn’t reprimand her for leaving her jar — her “women’s work” — behind. Rather, he encourages her spiritual pursuits and questions, then welcomes those she leads to him.

4. “Until I, Deborah, arose” (Judges 5:7)
So far I have mentioned New Testament women, but there is no absence of strong women in the Hebrew scriptures. Deborah, for example, is named in the Hebrew scriptures as both prophetess and judge. The people come to her for words from God; she leads, directs, and guides them, and no one seems to object based on her gender. In Judges 5, Deborah leads the people in song after leading them to victory in battle. She sings, “They held back until I, Deborah, arose, until I arose, a mother in Israel” (Judges 5:7). Without her leadership, the people would not fight on their own behalf.

Our English translations call her Deborah, “wife of Lappidoth,” but this phrase could also be translated “woman of Lappidoth,” noting where she is from, not who she is married to. Lappidoth means torch, so it is possible that the phrase “woman of Lappidoth” means Deborah is a fiery woman, which seems like an apt descriptor.

5. “Go and inquire of the Lord for me” (2 Kings 22:11-20; 2 Chronicles 34:14-33)
For some reason, Huldah (2 Kings 22:11-20; 2 Chronicles 34:14-33) is always overlooked by the men who say women can’t teach, though in her own day she was anything but invisible. As the story goes, King Josiah’s men were cleaning out the temple when they discovered a scroll of the Book of Law given by Moses. Josiah asked several men, including the high priest, to go inquire of the Lord about the contents of the scroll. Who did all those important men seek out for answers from God?

Huldah. A woman.

It is worth noting that Huldah was married, but they went to her, not her husband (which, for the record, made perfect sense, seeing as how she was the prophet and he was the keeper of the royal wardrobe). It is also worth noting that Huldah was a contemporary of male prophets like Jeremiah, Zephaniah, and Nahum. The king’s men had lots of great options, and they chose Huldah. She doesn’t just instruct men; men seek out her instruction. If the King of Judah wasn’t afraid to listen to a woman, why should we be?

6. “All the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing” (Exodus 15:20)
Miriam was the very first person in Hebrew scripture to be named a prophet (Exodus 15:20). I don’t mean that she was the first woman named as a prophet. She was the first prophet. Period.

Furthermore, Moses would never have led the exodus of the Israelites if it weren’t for his sister, Miriam, who kept watch over his basket in the river and ensured her baby brother was cared for. If it weren’t for his mother. If it weren’t the two Hebrew midwives, Shiprah and Puah. If it weren’t for Pharoah’s daughter. Then later, his wife Zipporah saves his life again (Exodus 4:24-26). If it weren’t for the women delivering him over and over, the deliverer of the Hebrew people wouldn’t be around.

Pretty much anywhere for that matter

not to men, nor teach ... NT is clear ...

Mine does to me all the time.

Holly Mac Aces, just read the above.

You won the lottery when it comes to having a mother that would have won "The Best Mother On Earth" award! You are truly a very fortunate man, indeed!

Now I know why you turned out to be the exceptional man that you are.

KB

Not for them.

Scholars estimate that Paul was born between 5 & 10 AD. They also estimate that Jesus was born sometime between 10 and 5BC, during the reign of Herod the Great. Herod died between 1BC and 4AD. Dates aren't known but Jesus started his ministry when he 'was about 30 years old'. Jewish men at the time weren't considered mature enough to participate before they were 25 or 30. Paul would have been a teenager at that time if the estimates are true.
There are some big holes in what we know of the history of that time period. Much of what we know comes from Josephus, the Jewish historian. The Bible says that the census when Jesus was born was when Quirinius was governor of Syria. It's known that he was governor in 6AD which conflicts with him being born under Herod's reign. However, some scholars believe that he might have served 2 terms as governor, with an earlier one when Herod was alive. Times and dates are just too unknown to know for sure.

Paul appears to have been partially blind and he dictated most of his letters. In Galatians, he said "See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand."

What in the world are you talking about? Scribes through history have gone to great lengths to keep the scriptures as close to the originals as possible. If they find evidence that someone has made changes, they make the corrections to get it right. There have been some cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, who have warped the Bible to their own means but the Christian world doesn't accept their changes. The JW New World Translation is regarded as toilet paper by Christians.

Your post is total baloney. You need to check real history on a sight that is not antagonistic to the truth.

Im goin' out on a limb here and sayin' it doesnt matter?\

Its not like men and men associated with the vatican in particular have done such a bang up job thus far? Although I didnt mind John Paul much , I used to enjoy sayin' "Is the pope a polack?" when the veracity of what I was saying was in question.

Imagine the preaching when the PMS is kicking in hard for some women.

I haven't read the whole thread and I didn't watch the video....but:

You have to ask yourself whenever you get a bright idea about these matters, how many pages of the Bible do you have to tear out to make it work. For the chick preacher thing to work you have to tear out some of One Timothy. That's no problem for most Christians these days. They don't let the Bible get in the way of what they believe.

Some of the learned scholars that participate in these threads have torn out the bulk of the New Testament to make their beliefs work. They have me at a loss.

The bottom line is that you either believe the scriptures to be inspired or you don't.

If you don't believe they are inspired, IMO, you may as well forget all of it and join the Elk's club or something......but Ya'll do what you want.

I believe the Bible says the rocks will cry out if man doesn't. I believe if men of God would step up and do their job, women wouldn't have to. That being said, my niece is a minister. Not in one of the gay churches either! She loves our Lord!

I believe some of the NT was forged, some altered, some just made up. But I do believe John the Baptist, Jesus, and James, and The Revelation managed to be accurately portrayed.

Some of it is very obvious with its contradictions. 2nd Peter is pretty well known by serious scholars to be a forgery.

As to forgetting all of it and joining the Elks club, how would that substitute for a serious search for the truth?

I find it mildly amusing that both believers and non-believers can pick and choose parts of the bible, both new and old testament, to cherry pick and decide how it best fits them. In this thread people have blatantly said "dont listen to this verse but listen to this one for your guidance". The only constant is that whoever is pushing it is the one who justifies the word to fit into their own line of thinking and needs.
But.... Isn't it all the "word of god"? Seems like something like that should be concrete. I mean... do you choose which laws set by our government to obey and which ones to adhere to, or is it all the law.... well if you've ever speed in your vehicle then you know that answer. "Do as I say, not as I do"...or is it that " I am an individual, and I am above the law"

Christianity is already dieing on the global scale. And why wouldn't it be. We do a good enough job of disproving ourselves; do we really need any outside influence?Guess that none of the "Christians" have ever heard the phrase united we stand and divided we fall....

The "bible" isn't a book. It is a collection of books and even short stories, and letters written by who knows who. The OT is pretty well not in a position to be altered or added to. Not so the NT. It was put together in some cases by people with an agenda.

So, no it is not an all or nothing "word of God" but as for the NT it needs to be gleaned through to separate the wheat from the chaff and even the weed seed that has been sown in God's name.

I would much rather be taught the bible and hear the word of God from a straight women than from phags, trannies and child molesters.

Why would we exclude half of all Christians as inferior and unworthy to teach and encourage others to be godly because they were born with a Cookie instead of a Johnson?

Women can teach us a lot about faith and God.

Did you miss the Part where Apostle Paul teaches the same thing in every church everywhere? You would try to use examples to prove instructions in God's Word are to be disregarded? What is the context of "let two or three speak and let the rest pass judgement. If a revelation is given to another the first is to be silent."? Apostle Paul told Timothy women were not to teach a man or have authority over a man because Eve was deceived. It had nothing to do with local customs.

In order to obey God's Word one must first humble themselves. It is very difficult for an educated person to do that. I know only two educated people who have humbled themselves enough to obey God's Word. The rest try to give their opinion or someone else's opinion as fact to overthrow the faith of new believers.

What a fun post to read! Thanks.

Jesus says, "If you love Me you will keep my commandments." Apostle John wrote, "The love of the Lord is to obey His commands." Apostle Paul wrote, "If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize the things which I write to you are the Lords' commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this he is not recognized."

Women preaching vs women pastors. May be two topics.

If the Lord speaks to a woman and she has a word, better listen.

In Numbers 22, Balaam got a word from the Lord delivered by a donkey. Had he not heeded that word, an angel with a drawn sword would have chopped him into pieces.

So, sometimes we need to heed the word, not get sidetracked by the donkey. In fact I’m not so sure the Lord doesn’t have some donkeys preaching today.

Just an analogy. Nothing against women. The Lord has a sense of humor. He may just send you a word thru someone you don’t want to hear it from.

Heed the word. Don’t get distracted.

DF

Because God is the Creator and makes the rules. God's Word says Eve was deceived and therefore should NOT teach a man or have authority over a man.

Is God going to contradict Himself? When my wife became a believer she read the Bible and wrote an essay about twenty pages long on how women should live a Godly life. She was convinced then and is still convinced forty-five years later women should not speak in church or teach men. Do you have any command from God to show her she is wrong? Don't use examples. We have examples of someone who was the apple of God's eye. When he got caught in adultery, he murdered the husband and married the widow. Another example is a guy who actually walked with Jesus and healed sick people. But when the chips were down he committed suicide. Another when hard pressed if he knew Jesus, denied Jesus. Are we to use examples or obey God's instructions?

Isn't what you describe called manipulation, or misrepresentation, or some such skulduggery? Really? Christian scholars?

This thread has been an eye-opener when it comes to "interpretation" of Scriptures. Who has the key?

Hmmm - am thinking that you just used your wife as an "example".

I hear ya.

I know what the scripture says. I agree with those teachings.

I have been blessed by women teachers. I lean toward men pastors and men in leadership. I just wanted to say sometimes you hear a word from an unconventional source. Don’t discount the source, heed the word.

DF

God did not say that they were "inferior and unworthy" or that could not teach or encourage. Read the Bible.

That is such a BS cop out. I'm too dumb to have my own objective opinion and interpretation, I only know what I read. Do you really think God made you better or more qualified person than any women because he blessed you with a Johnson?

That is the kind of draconian interpretation of the bible that is chasing women and some men out of church. That and the fact that many of the men we have on the pulpit should be in a mental health institution or prison. Good luck with your narrow and self-serving interpretation of the bible and the future of your church.

You are going to need it...

Exactly.

Different roles based upon gender and in the best interest of family and society. Most of us here get that or at least should. The opposite of that is exactly what the left has been pushing for decades.

Ever see a hot chick preaching?

You call God's Word BS all you want. It does not change God's Word. Because I have a "Johnson" has no bearing on God's Word. Woman and men are not being chased out of the church. They are choosing to NOT participate in an organization they no longer like. I don't have a "narrow and self-serving interpretation" of the Bible. Just like I read your post and took it for what you posted, I take God's Word for what He says. By the way, I quit attending "church" more than forty years ago. So, "the future of" my church is not in any danger. Nevertheless, I continued studying God's Word.

I have learned that anyone can be competent at what they do whether simple stuff like the church or complex stuff like designing and building big stuff. Of course designing and building big stuff mattered most for me. I do not doubt what a women can do, just what most do.

No, but that would be super hot.

What do you make of: Romans 16:1
" I commend to you our sister Phoebe,
a deacon of the church in Cenchreae."

The Greek script uses the word, διάκονον (diakonon)
which according to Biblical concordances means
minister.

Strongs Concordance: 1249. diakonos

diakonos: a servant, minister
Original Word: διάκονος, οῦ, ὁ, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: diakonos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ak'-on-os)
Definition: a servant, minister
Usage: a waiter, servant; then of any one who performs
any service, an administrator.


1249 /diákonos ("ministry") in the NT usually refers to
the Lord inspiring His servants to carry out His plan for
His people – i.e. as His "minister" (like a deacon serving
Him in a local church).

Research the differences between a deacon vs an elder. Deacons are not required to have the gift of preaching or teaching; elders must have these gifts, among other gifts. Deacons are caregivers, instituted to take away the day-to-day burden of caring for the body so that the apostles were freed up to use their gifts of teaching.

What do you make of:
Romans 16:7
"Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who
have been in prison with me. They are outstanding
among the apostles, and they were in Christ before
I was."

When Pliny as Roman governor of Bithynia (Turkey)
wrote to Emperor Trajan about dealing with Xtians
he describes the females he interrogated as ministrae.
(Ref.Epistulae X.96)
English translators use 'deaconesses' in place of
the orig. Latin.

No, but wouldn't it be cool to bang one on the pulpit while the choir sings "I Surrender All" 😁

No, but I've seen some nun videos.

LOL - keep googling.

We are talking about context, within the scriptures.

You may as well quote me something from the Universalist Statement of Faith.

They biotch er preach everyday.

🤣🤣

I always thought it was hilarious that people say Paul was nearly blind from that verse. Isn't it more likely Paul was speaking about how weighty and important his letter was than apologizing that he had to make it the size of a bed sheet because he was nearly blind?

Women should keep their bitch asses in the kitchen baking me some pie. Until I tell them to go to the bedroom and open up.

I have come to realize that Paul was pretty smart to get on that boat and take his chances at sea rather than stay in Jerusalem or Asia Minor after the real Christians (the ones closest to Jesus) figured him out.

That right there is funny.

Judges 7:2-8.


That all women are thereby "inferior and unworthy" is an inference. Lapping water like a dog does not make one a better soldier. Women, like most men, simply don't meet all the job requirements. It's an age old problem (Mt 9:37) with a simple prescribed solution (Mt 9:38). Scripture is rife with disastrous examples of man trying to rectify "problems" with the Word based upon reason.

What a silly argument.

LMAO

#pastorMissy

I don't subscribe to the LDS (Mormon) faith but I do believe they got one thing right concerning the ministry. They do not have a paid ministry. That would weed out a bunch of pretenders.

As far as women preaching and teaching. It is OK if they are up to the job but the ones I've known of in the Methodist UMC are pretty bland in their delivery but then so are most men preachers in the UMC.

We have a Southern Methodist church about 15 miles up the road and I swear that old preacher would fit right in with the Methodists and Baptists from way back when. He told me he broke with the Methodist church decades ago when they OK'd social drinking of alcohol and now he thinks the UMC is in league with the devil.

Your post stimulates a couple of questions.

You use the term "paid", but are you certain that there are zero ways/means of compensation for those who assume speaking/decision authority in the LDS?

In reply to an earlier question on actual Scriptural direction regarding women preaching, some told me to read/accept only certain versions of Scripture. Another told me to watch a video of someone's sermon. You note the Methodist situation, and the interpretation may differ among denominations with some consistency by group. Do you have data on how various denominations interpret the earlier noted Scriptural 'direction"?

Was that a response to my comments? If so, let me clarify that the inference that women were "inferior and unworthy" was what he intimated as a straw man, not I. My reference to the winnowing of Gideon's men is in response to his concern that we are discounting half the population based solely on gender. I am not troubled by this "excessive winnowing" and reject it as an argument to overturn Scripture. I attempt no argument regarding the merits of a male only pastorate and will let Scripture speak for itself which it does clearly.

The thread is somewhat muddled by the nature of the question. Are we talking about the office of the ministry or simply building one another up. Some few are certainly advocating for female pastors and others are clear in their opposition. Many are a terse "No" without explanation. Perhaps, like me, they see no reason to justify God's word. The counter arguments generally start with the question: "Did God really say...?" See Genesis 3:1 where the whole kerfuffle started. There is nothing new under the sun.

No....numbnuts like Ringman should be the only prechers.

Especially if you don't want people in the pews.

My church is pastored by a husband and wife. He is undoubtedly the head of the church and she prieaches on occasion and leads part of the service. She helps him. I have gotten in this discussion a few times because I attend there and I deeply respect them both. It is hard for a woman to lead a man, BUT......


if that man or group of men are Sunday Christians and devote only an hour or two a week to worship and study then why is she not qualified to lead them in worship and study if she has devoted her entire life unto that pursuit?

If I read a couple medical articles a week and took a few health classes in college am I above a female physician because I'm a man?

Charles Stanley said in an interview about 20 years ago that he got saved after being led to do so by the preaching of a woman evangelist.

michellmountain,

You create a straw man with your doctor. Scripture says the sick need a doctor. Scripture is also very clear women are to be silent in church. Scripture also teaches women are not to teach or have authority over men.

Your woman preacher in in violation of the very Book she preaches from. If in fact she even uses It.

She violates only Paul's doctrine and otherwise only violates Hebrew and other traditions of a time when roles of women were tightly controlled. I don't know that Paul had any authority to prescribe rules.

Church in town got sent a Korean lady preacher couldn’t speak English worth a schit

Started to reply then saw the women be quiet in church part, not worth the effort. Carry on

Ringman has a very low opinion of women, and he uses God and the bible and the fire and who knows what other outlets as a crutch to defend himself.

He starts a thread and asks people what they think, then argues with everybody that disagrees with him.

His mind is made up, he is better than any women because he believes that is what it says in the bible.

Bigot, zealot, women hater.

Not worth the time trying to change the mind of or arguing with a hater.

This dude would fit in really good in Iran.

Not wasting any more time or breath on this loser.

How many of us have a university degree like all preachers, and how many of us would want to work for what they get paid?

Oh wow

There is a reason preachers preach. Some are sincere men and believe they are doing the Lord's work in pastoring a flock. But I believe that is a minority. A lot of them are fruitcakes with a gift for acting and have found a pretty good gig for an effeminate man that doesn't want to get out and mix it up competing in the real world.

The best and most sincere preachers I have found are men that have taken up preaching after retirement. I knew one that was a retired Colonel (Methodist) and another that retired from a state highway department (Baptist).

We presently have one that is 78 years old and gave up his life of sin and went into the SBC ministry at age 20. He doesn't relate well with the men and if we have an after service meal he sits with the ladies. Almost all the men segregate to their own tables and catch up on the latest.

As a side note unrelated to the subject at hand we have several members of the church and 2 deacons that openly admit to drinking alcohol and we recently quit sending money to the SBC and basically disassociated from the SBC.

Well...it was a "false" saving then.


You can't receive the Word from a woman.

3 of the closest friends I've had in my life are pastors, none of which fit that criteria. Good men, honest men who were open about how fallible they are. That being said all that glitters is not gold and a lot of proclaimed Christians bear no fruit.

Sarc?

Nope.

God would never send His Word through one of them deceptive creatures.

The last good solid preacher I seen was a solemn man WW2 vet didn’t open a Bible to preach.He preached on his life experiences and what he’d seen he preached on that alone and referenced off of that.The man lived to be 90 odd yrs old every Sunday was a different story worth hearing.
The most inspiring thing about the man was he checked on you and actually gave a fugk about his job.

They have long have and vajiners and such.


Ewww.....

Hahaha!


Come on....

You are creating a straw man, wabi. What does that have to do with this?

Don’t know about Iowa, around here preachers make big $$. Other than Mennonite, I’ve met very few preachers that weren’t making well over the average wage of the congregation.

I’m not impressed by the degree but I wouldn’t want the work. It’s a calling in most cases.

A few rich TV or mega church ministers aside. For the average small church preacher dealing with everything from paying the bills to finding Sunday school teachers, choir members, band members, ushers and church security, youth group leaders, to marriage and family counseling, funerals and grief issues, hospital visits, to dealing with personality conflicts between members, preparing a Sunday sermon or two along with a midweek Bible study, and often working a 9-5 around it and knowing that your own life and that of your families is somewhat under a microscope very few are in it for the money or a stress free lifestyle. There’s easier ways to rake in 60k per year than dealing with all of what a typical small church pastor contends with.

Most of the churches that I’ve attended averaged anywhere from 250 people at any given service down to about 30 with the pastor snaking toilets, mowing the lawn and doing just about every other side job that goes along with owning a building and juggling personalities.

I guess you didn't pay attention. I asked people to check out the video and tell me what they think. It appears no one watched the video. Everyone arrived here with a preconceived notion of what it says or doesn't say. So I guess you and just like them. You are responding like everyone who didn't watch the video.

We have one 78 years old, gives 4 lackluster rerun sermons about 20-30 minutes each a month, gets about $3600. While I do better than that there are several in the congregation make way less than preacher does and I told him to quit talking about tithing in his sermons. We have folks that are scraping by to keep their utilities on and pay for Biden gasoline for their old cars and trucks.

Tithing is a tough issue IMO. You should give 10% but I’d guess that well under half of a typical congregation probably closer to a fourth is regulars that actually do and that isn’t counting the kids that are probably another fourth of the congregation. Tithing pays the bills but it’s never a good look hearing a minister talk about it.

I've heard it said that a Baptist deacon will never recognize you in a liquor store....

Don't know that for a fact, just heard it.

Hmm...

DF

Baptists are the reason liquor stores in the south have those drive up windows around back.

Poor guess on your part - I did watch your video. However, you did not reply - at all - to my inquiries way back there - other than to say "watch the video". What a solid act that is.

Bapitists - wherever 3 or 4 are gathered, there's sure to be a fifth.

Gotta say it...... strawman 😂😂

Solomon had 300 wives & 700 concubines. Reckon he had some input?

That video is over an hour long. It is easy to figure out what the argument against women will be without wasting an hour. The ''apostate apostle'' Paul said for women to keep their mouth shut and that is that.

If the video didn't do that please give us the short version in your own words.

And also please opine as to whether Paul's letter writing campaign is the ''inspired'' word of God.

Putting a monetary number/percentage on salvation is ridiculous.

Jews don’t recognize Jesus and baptists don’t recognize each other at the liquor store. I grew up til the exact day I turned 18 going to a Baptist church 3 times a week.
No reason to ever darken the doorstep of a church again except for funerals I have no choice but to attend.

10% is the biblical norm. Nobody is buying salvation if they give more or bound for hell if they give less. IMO. It’s the generally agreed upon norm. Most give a lot less if anything. The other side to that is that I’ve never known a pastor that would refuse his time to someone that gave nothing. I wouldn’t attend a church with a pastor that did.

My post on the last page followed yours but wasn’t directed at you.

We could argue cheap labor and illegals until the cows came home but differences aside you’re a good guy IMO.

What do you give 10% of? Originally it was the produce of the land only. The wages of the hireling were not taxed and neither were a lot of other things. Such as commercial fishing, mining, etc. The whole country was run by the Levite priests on the tithe. We are talking the judicial system, law enforcement, social programs (if any), the religious system, all of it. It is kind of ridiculous to expect a tithe of a businessman that might take in a million dollars and make a profit of only $50,000 after all is said and done. What would a cleaning lady owe on her $500 that she takes in cash? Does she get consideration for her gas?

I told the preacher to build some corrals because I was going to pay my 10% in livestock just like the bible says.

Sorry, man. I sure didn't mean to denigrate anyone.

CCCC,

If you don't mind. would you repost your questions. please. I'm sorry I messed up. No telling how many others I insulted.

Somerset Maugham or some similar author stated, rather convincingly in light of present dangers, "Women should be obscene and never heard."

Ha!

Good one. Can I use that?

DF

Just so someone preaches. Even a young child, remember Jesus left behind in the temple?

Someone with reading comprehension skills. Someone that doesn't make assumptions without evidence. Someone that can filter out the BS that got added in.

I was on a search committee that hired a pastor last year. We found and hired a great pastor. Has a doctorate degree.

At his last church, he was mowing the yard and doing the janitorial work himself.

We are paying him $75,000 which is more than he was hoping for.

Sounds like you found a true servant of the flock.

DF

No.

Why not? Who says?

Women are best suited for wearing an apron and preparing chess pie, potato salad, and the like

Sure, why not... Does it matter the sex/ gender of who gives us the word of God?

Its not going to bother me...

In a real Christian church, tithing has nothing to do with salvation. That comes from faith in Jesus. Tithing is a gift to God. There's no requirement to give it. It's free gratis, giving back a part of God's generosity.
That said, there are churches that require it. Stay away from them.

So, Balaam should have disregarded the Word his Donkey was preaching? Wouldn’t have turned out well for him.

DF

Guessing you like men better than women...

Sometimes we have a guest speaker. Likely 3 times a yr. They are not payed pastors. At our old church the pastors wife spoke on Mothers day. The women loved it . They are just different. I listened the whole service and at the end wondered what it was even about..... All the women thought it was the best though. As for me, I go to church every Sunday and rarely go in the sancuary. I help with Kids World almost every Sunday cause no one seems to care. Now that is a womans job. Talk about a mental beat up . We had 29 kids last week from 4 to 9 yrs old. A woman are way better than the guys and more of a ministry than those in the sanctuary.

Yes, someone should.

Paul is often criticized for prohibiting women from preaching. Fact is, Paul was very liberal with women. They were actually in church. The Jews prohibited women from even being in most of the temple. The temple had a court of the women and they weren't allowed beyond it. In a synagogue, the woman had to sit separate from the men. Paul gave women freedoms that were seldom seen in that day and age.

What do you base that position on?

It matters to God to the point He makes it very clear in His word.

I'd be more concerned with what bothers God than what bothers me. It's the safe bet in the long run.

SuperCub,

There you have it in a nutshell. Give honor to God, not men.

Bringing up this dormant post …

This past Tuesday, I intended to attend a Tuesday evening Bible study at a nearby nondenominational church. On Tuesday, I received an email with details and also mentioning that Sarah xxxxx would be kicking off the study.

This was a study open to all church members, not just women.

Leaving out some of the minutiae, I did not attend and pursued an email conversation with a male minister. I challenged him, telling him that their action to allow the woman to teach could not be reconciled with 1 Timothy 2:12.

His response was that the church does not permit women to teach from the pulpit on Sunday mornings, but otherwise their gifts of teaching would be used to benefit the whole church.

Since this Bible study was on Tuesday night and not held in the worship center, it was okay for a woman to teach.

The decision of this church does not line up with scripture. Paul did NOT write “I do not allow women to teach from the pulpit on Sunday mornings.”

Good post SuperCub. The more "woke" the culture (in and out of Church) the more traditional values matter to me but more importantly I believe God appreciates the effort.

Exactly right!

Remember the Emaciated Lesbian Pastor at St. John’s Church .

The Church of the Presidents ..

One Institution after Another..


Doctor My eYe’s ..

I’ve left the Open for to Long ..

no for being a pastor. no for preaching from the pulpit.
I think it is OK, though, for a woman to teach a Sunday School class (under the authority of the pastor)>

No to preaching, and while we are on the subject, let’s repeal the 19th amendment

Do you recall, "The hand that rocks the cradle, guides the nation"?

It's funny to watch all you dumb fugking Christians get duped by this idiot day in, and day out.

LOL

Non-essentials often become obstacles. This issue isn’t foundational to Christianity any more than is believing in the literal 6 day creation narrative in Genesis.

It's ok if they preach.

As long as the dishes and laundry are done, the house is clean and the lawn is mowed.

Who decided that?

You?

Hahahaha Hahahaha

Good Un

I believe it was, "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world"!

No

I don't know if I responded to this or not.

So this woman, in disobedience to God's Word, preaches? How does she and you justify it?

By having a clue what the scriptures are actually teaching. You are exactly like a Pharisee of old. They read in the scriptures that God commanded to keep his word before their eyes. They built little boxes and wore tiny copies of the law on their foreheads, thus proving that they kept the law but not having a clue as to what it meant.

This is a bit of a jump.

Where?

1st Timothy 3:1-2 "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;


Verse 1 notes that, "if a man" Verse 2 notes, "Husband of one wife" There's no way a woman can be the husband of one wife.

What if he just didn't mention women because they were so few. There were women listed in the book of Acts who were preachers and were not chastised for it. Mary Magdalen was the first ever to proclaim Jesus had risen.

The scriptures explicitly state that there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek, or male and female, as all are one in Christ.

Yes, Paul was against women preachers, though not in the verses where he is talking about women being silent in church. That was a different matter altogether. I do believe that it would not have been good for women to pastor or preach in those days in that place which is why we have the scriptures against it.

That does not however mean that no woman can preach ever in the history of mankind. You are just an idiot if you think that way and clueless as the pharisees about scripture.

It is the same kind of legalistic mind that has always sought to please God with his actions, as if he could be good enough, rather than just trust God unconditionally. That legalistic mindset is always prideful and boastful of its accomplishments. The one who trusts God just humbly asks and expects forgiveness as he stumbles through.

Women weren't allowed to vote when this country was founded, giving them the vote and standing by is no better than listening to a woman preacher...

I might be persuaded that that is a true statement. I too would rather hear a man preach, but I do not see that scripture forbids women from ever preaching. I can understand how someone might come to that conclusion based on some scripture, but there is simply too much contradictory scripture if you take that strict of an interpretation as there are clearly several women preachers in scripture. They are not ridiculed in any manner.

Perhaps you know more than Apostle Paul. He claims his writings ARE God's Word and uses Eve as the example why women should NOT teach men.

Would you mind showing from God's Word where Apostle Paul is in error, please? That way I can repent based upon the Truth.

Lucky to have 63 percent.

Since you claim in writing the Scripture contradicts Itself, how do you choose Which to accept?

Another request: Please give a couple examples of Scripture contradicting Itself.

I hear enough preaching at home from a woman don’t need to listen again on sundays

RCClark,

We're waiting.

Your normal personal attacks won't answer the questions.

Agree 100%.

Any thesis that starts with the words “[h]e claims” kinda equivocates and takes the capitalized words “ARE” and “NOT” out of the realm of absolute. I also highly suspect that the snake/apple thing is a fairy tale that renders any analysis based upon it that much more suspect.

I'll say, whoever preaches best, shall preach, and just so someone does.

Wabs I’m not listening to a fugkin womanz preacher you might but not me go grab some fugkin tux pads

To answer the OPs question...no...and either should men.

Hell, women can’t decide what to wear or where to go. Yeah, let’s let them decide our future policies. Holy fugging schidt.

🤣👍

Why are you bringing logic into an emotional thread? You're taking the fun out of it.

RHCLARK, where are you?

No, I'm not saying scripture contradicts itself. I'm saying that if you interpret it to say that God never allows women to preach, then you have made it contradict itself by your misinformed interpretation.

Sure, why not. It doesn't mean you have to listen to them.

For the life of me, I do not feel God would wish for us to prevent anyone from preaching the Gospel. If God gives a woman the gift of the ability to share his true word, Really could not imagine he would want that gift bottled up and not shared. If an individual, he or she is a false prophet, that is another matter entirely.

how many women have you guys ever met, that didn't think it was her right to preach to everyone she felt like it toward.

They are the type who never shut up and never think they are wrong... about anything.

Jesus never said the women couldn't or shouldn't preach or lead. That was some else that came along later that put that in a letter.

Maybe most women aren't geared up for leadership but some are and I can promise there are a bunch of men making a mess of leadership.

If a woman can do a job and can get around in a man dominated profession, let her do it. The Lord doesn't seem to mind, only Christians do.

Women have no business preaching. This place is going to hell in a hand basket.

Look at what Jesus does with scripture, and what scripture says about Jesus.

Jesus appears to be quite alright to put the authority of His own words above the authority of the words of scripture: He said in Matthew’s Gospel, “You have heard it said…but I say to you….” On the other hand, Jesus says that the whole reason for the scriptures is to point to Him. In John’s Gospel He said, “You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have life. But it is these that testify about Me.” In other words, if you get too obsessed with what the scriptures say, it’s like standing in front of a road-sign and studying ‘it’ rather than following where it is pointing.

Jesus is the main thing. Scripture is a road-sign that points toward the main thing. Scripture provides what it does so that we’ll know the main thing when we see it. The difference between scripture and Jesus is like the difference between the menu and the food. The menu describes the food (the life-giving substance), the food itself is that life-giving substance.

The main thing is the main thing. Jesus is the focus, NOT the minutiae that some choose to focus on instead.

Try stopping one. I dare you.

And they should not vote either.

I don't listen to anyone that thinks they speak and teach with the authority of Christ... I will listen to anyone that wishes to testify their faith.

Kent

So, deflave is a woman!?

No, I'm not saying scripture contradicts itself. I'm saying that if you interpret it to say that God never allows women to preach, then you have made it contradict itself by your misinformed interpretation.[/quote]

There is no interpretation necessary. One humbles himself enough to accept God at His Word or exalts himself and contradicts God. How do you explain Apostle Paul using Eve (you do believe Eve is real, don't you?) to teach "a woman should not have authority over a man or teach a man"? In the Passage Apostle Paul instructs....well I will just quote it.

1 Timothy 2:8-14

"Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wreath and dissension. Likewise, women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls, or costly garments, but rather by means of good work, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. An Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression."

You can rationalize all you want, but Apostle Paul is consistent in his teaching. Afterall, he tells us he teaches the same in all the churches and also tells us not to be arrogant and exceed what is written. No matter how much you want it not to be so, Apostle Paul wrote (recorded in 1 Corinthians 14:26-38,


"What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?

If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."

Please show us where God grants any woman authority to teach or preach to men.

Do you believe God's Word? See the response above. There are quotes.

I think it was Laura Ingram who said something like, "The beginning of the end of this country was when woman started voting."

It might have been the skinny blond woman with the Adam's apple who supported Cristy, though.

Some Methodists have gone woke. Big split from what I’ve read.

Curious which end of that spectrum are the ones you referenced.

DF

Hell they all do weather we like it or not....................................................

No

Say what?

There is no interpretation necessary. One humbles himself enough to accept God at His Word or exalts himself and contradicts God. How do you explain Apostle Paul using Eve (you do believe Eve is real, don't you?) to teach "a woman should not have authority over a man or teach a man"? In the Passage Apostle Paul instructs....well I will just quote it.

1 Timothy 2:8-14

"Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wreath and dissension. Likewise, women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls, or costly garments, but rather by means of good work, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. An Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression."

You can rationalize all you want, but Apostle Paul is consistent in his teaching. Afterall, he tells us he teaches the same in all the churches and also tells us not to be arrogant and exceed what is written. No matter how much you want it not to be so, Apostle Paul wrote (recorded in 1 Corinthians 14:26-38,


"What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?

If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."

Please show us where God grants any woman authority to teach or preach to men.[/quote]







Check out Balaam’s donkey, surely not ordained. No mention of male or female. But if Balaam hadn’t listen to what the donkey was trying to tell him, he’d have been chopped up by the angel with the sword.

Sometimes it’s the Word, not the donkey, that’s important. I think the Lord may still have some donkeys preaching His Word.

Pay attention to the Word. Worry less about the vessel used to deliver it.

Or you may miss something.

DF

Old school god fearing folks don’t believe in woman preachers

Again, Charles Stanley said in an interview about 20 years ago that he got saved after being led to do so by the preaching of a woman evangelist. And he went on to preach the Gospel to millions of people worldwide for over 65 years.

Many left the UM here over the past month or two.
Most are now simply named "------ Church" by dropping the "United Methodist" portion from the name.
The 'bigger' Churches are having to buy the property back from UMC, the smaller country churches are mostly getting it back for little/nothing.

Wimmins & queers preaching just isn't all that to most of the more rural churches apparently.

Exactly

Nope,they need to cook,clean and suck cock.

Local baptist church has just about run off a closet gay preacher he’s “going on a leave of absence” now because his fugkin boyfriend that everybody knows about is going off to college.Wolf in a sheep’s clothing kinda ordeal ppls started noticing quirky schit and left.

Good post Sir, I agree!

As usual antlers and krp get right to the point and as usual I cannot agree more!

False prophets yes good point hunt app very much so in the story on the closet gay preacher fugk that around my family.

Kudos to the flock who flushed that one.

Maybe they'll become a bit more inspired with future choices.

DF

Trump is a false prophet and people fell for him hook line a sinker!

I think not care to discuss further while I’m in rant mode

I didn’t think so you didn’t answer the last question I asked you

I don’t know how the fugk they found this flake.He was a Methodist minister prior to that might explain things🤔Right after he comes aboard as preacher a members daughter who is lesbo finds him on a gay chat room🤦‍♂️

The only woman preacher I've known in my 56 years on earth has a drunk for a husband.

They persecuted true prophets, accused them of being false prophets.

So, be careful. Be sure about what you say. Know where you’re coming from. Don’t fall for anything, know and don’t guess.

DF

Where does your wife preach?

😂

Check out Balaam’s donkey, surely not ordained. No mention of male or female. But if Balaam hadn’t listen to what the donkey was trying to tell him, he’d have been chopped up by the angel with the sword.

Sometimes it’s the Word, not the donkey, that’s important. I think the Lord may still have some donkeys preaching His Word.

Pay attention to the Word. Worry less about the vessel used to deliver it.

Or you may miss something.

DF[/quote]

"Pay attention to the Word", you say. Is that God's Word. If so, God's Word tells us women are not to teach a man or have authority over a man. What is this "Word" you are referencing?

Do you believe the Bible to be God's Word? How about 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where we find,

"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false."

Did any person in a position of authority come out and explicitly say that women should keep quiet and not teach or preach?

Did Jesus, John the Baptist, or any of the 12 disciples that Jesus publicly chose or the one elected to replace Judas Iscariot make such a pronouncement?

Originals?

We have no originals..prof Bart Ehrman
has pointed out all we have is 'copies of copies of copies
etc, etc' and some of the earliest more complete copies
contain less than later copies.
..in other words later scribes of antiquity added to the narrative
...such is the case with Mark and even the John Xtians use today
is very much redacted.

Even the decades old oral narrative is highly questionable in its
reliability before being recorded in Gospels.

But you can change my mind by telling me who
recorded the exchange between Pilate and Jesus?
and who recorded the long-winded sermon on
the mount?



When it comes to Rome I mostly read heavily footnoted
Academia grade books by respected PhD types ,( eg: Beard,
Strauss, Goldsworthy)..I don't recall any putting Herod's death
at 4 AD...Can you cite the historians that date it so late ???

And when do your unnamed scholars say Quirinius possibly
had his first (earlier) governorship of Syria?

There is no interpretation necessary. One humbles himself enough to accept God at His Word or exalts himself and contradicts God. How do you explain Apostle Paul using Eve (you do believe Eve is real, don't you?) to teach "a woman should not have authority over a man or teach a man"? In the Passage Apostle Paul instructs....well I will just quote it.

1 Timothy 2:8-14

"Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wreath and dissension. Likewise, women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls, or costly garments, but rather by means of good work, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. An Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression."

You can rationalize all you want, but Apostle Paul is consistent in his teaching. Afterall, he tells us he teaches the same in all the churches and also tells us not to be arrogant and exceed what is written. No matter how much you want it not to be so, Apostle Paul wrote (recorded in 1 Corinthians 14:26-38,


"What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?

If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."

Please show us where God grants any woman authority to teach or preach to men.[/quote]






Once again you show your utter ignorance of God's Word. In 1 Tim 2-8, Yes, Paul is against women preaching. Notice him saying " I do not allow", not God does not allow. My best guess is because congregations were filled with pharisees just like you and it would have been useless for a woman to try.

What do you think of the part where Paul says it's because it was the woman who was deceived rather than Adam? Personally, I would rather hear from someone who was deceived into sin rather than someone who purposefully committed sin, as the scripture suggests Adam did.

The other scriptures you posted from 1 Cor. are not given to prevent women from ever speaking in church you moron. They were given specifically to the new church who had just allowed women to learn with the men. The church was quite chaotic with the women talking to their husbands during service trying to learn about this new Christian religion. The rule was only made for that reason. Paul is telling them to learn from their husbands at home. This was apparently necessary because the husbands weren't teaching their wives what they were learning at church. The women had to ask questions during service to find out anything and it was causing chaos in the service. We know this because Paul admonishes the men in verse 36 "What, came the word of God out from you, or came it unto you only." Paul is scolding the men for not teaching and sharing the word with their wives causing the problem in the first place.


Why don't you study all the women in scripture who have preached and been accepted as preachers? I suspect you won't because it might upset your theology of total ignorance.

"Once again you show your utter ignorance of God's Word. In 1 Tim 2-8, Yes, Paul is against women preaching. Notice him saying " I do not allow", not God does not allow. My best guess is because congregations were filled with pharisees just like you and it would have been useless for a woman to try.

What do you think of the part where Paul says it's because it was the woman who was deceived rather than Adam? Personally, I would rather hear from someone who was deceived into sin rather than someone who purposefully committed sin, as the scripture suggests Adam did.

The other scriptures you posted from 1 Cor. are not given to prevent women from ever speaking in church you moron. They were given specifically to the new church who had just allowed women to learn with the men. The church was quite chaotic with the women talking to their husbands during service trying to learn about this new Christian religion. The rule was only made for that reason. Paul is telling them to learn from their husbands at home. This was apparently necessary because the husbands weren't teaching their wives what they were learning at church. The women had to ask questions during service to find out anything and it was causing chaos in the service. We know this because Paul admonishes the men in verse 36 "What, came the word of God out from you, or came it unto you only." Paul is scolding the men for not teaching and sharing the word with their wives causing the problem in the first place.


Why don't you study all the women in scripture who have preached and been accepted as preachers? I suspect you won't because it might upset your theology of total ignorance.[/quote]"






What is/was a lady to do if she has questions and doesn't/didn't have a husband?

Hastings

I would suppose she would learn just like everyone else. Paul wrote the letter to a specific church to address a specific problem. I do not think Paul intended that women could only ever learn from their husband.

It would be like watching a football game with a woman who kept asking about the rules. If you could never watch without her interrupting, someone might tell her to learn the rules from her husband at home. That was the kind of situation Paul was dealing with.

Some can really sing.

What about the others 😂🤣

Especially when taking it up the............................

Oh fugk 🤣🤣🤣😂😂

How do you know this? Do you have a Scripture to support your claim? You want to use extra Bible info to contradict God's Word. Apostle Paul tells us he teaches the same in every church. Were all the churches have the same experiences? Examples don't cut it when they are not supported by clear instructions. Examples don't cut it when they contradict clear instructions.

If you will look at scriptures that support women preaching, you can clearly see that you are wrong in your interpretation. I am not going to go through and list every woman who has preached in scripture. You can easily find it in a google search if you wanted. You won't do that though because it might lead you to the conclusion that you are wrong.

Women have preached and prophesied since OT days. Men have sought out the advice of women prophets in the same historical time that there were well known men prophets. It's all in the bible if you wanted to search for it.

There is too much scripture supporting women preaching to think that you can take a couple verses out of context and place women literally below a donkey in your estimation.

I came to my conclusions by reading the original language interpretations from the top Greek and Hebrew scholars in the last 100 years. It's all available via the WWW if you really wanted to know.

Again you are appealing to examples instead of instructions. Instructions trump examples every time. I can show from Scripture a guy who committed adultery. In order to cover it up he committed murder. Should we follow his example? He was "the apple of God's eye." Another example of a guy who walked with Jesus and healed sick and cured blind. When hard time came he committed suicide. He was one of the original twelve. Should we follow his example? Example don't cut it. "Obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled by His Blood." Saint Peter says this.

For the first four years I was a Christian I used different Greek books and one Hebrew book along with different translations of the Bible. After all that study I discovered one can save a lot of time by using the New American Standard Bible or the New King James Bible and accept the translators knew and know as much as we do. Over the last almost fifty years I discovered those who wish to disobey God's Word appeal to outside sources or examples in the Bible. They do this because obedience to God is not generally accepted in the church.

You are simply an idiot and I will not waste any more time trying to teach you anything. You could simply google women preachers in the bible and find multiple scriptures that prove your conclusions are wrong. I'm not wasting my time on you anymore. I might try to show someone else what an idiot you are, though I think most have you figured pretty well by now, but I won't be arguing with you.

not to men ...

Whenever someone resorts to person attack they loose credibility. It's kind of like raising your voice in an argument when you know you are loosing. You refuse to accept instructions but love examples of folks who are not doing what God instructs us, who read His Word, how to live.

Exactly right.

Name calling is 3rd grade behavior.

People need to make cogent rebuttals. Don’t resort to personal attacks. We all need to be better than that.

It is my understanding that when women are found preaching in scripture it is an act that represents a judgement against men for failing to carry out their responsibilities. Therefore, it is a sin that reflects Adam and Eve in the Garden.

Cleven observation.

Calling someone an idiot when they are one isn't name calling, it isn't even offensive.

Kent

I'm okay with ladies teaching the scriptures. They couldn't do much worse than some of the men. But they do tend to be a bit more secular.

I appreciate that, but it's still a fault and I shouldn't get so frustrated. I'm just as upset with myself as anyone and I'm also an idiot thinking that I could do any good arguing with one. I'm also an idiot for even commenting on a thread designed for no purpose except to argue.

You opinion about the object of the thread was exactly what was posted at the beginning. I was curious. Because you can't defend your position from the Scripture you want to lower everyone else who can.

Frank Turek and Jordan Peterson both habitually raise their voices
when their wonky theological arguments are tanking ..yet they tend
to get cheers-applause from theists
in the audience.


Prof.Bart Ehrman just recently again recommended the NRSV...as he did in
2012.

https://ehrmanblog.org/my-preferred-bible-translation-for-members/


"A number of people have responded to some of my recent comments by asking what my preferred Bible translation is. I get asked the question a lot – especially since my book Misquoting Jesus, where I talk about the changes scribes made in the manuscripts they copied over the years. A number of readers were alarmed and wondered whether I should let scholars know about these problems. In every case I responded that yes, indeed, scholars – all scholars of the Bible – do know about these problems. Intimately. Inside and out. This is the kind of thing scholars work on. Nothing in the book would have come as a shock to anyone in the field. Most especially to Bible translators, who have to decide which Hebrew and Greek words to translate before even starting to think about how to put them into English. And so, as a result, every modern Bible translator knows about and deals with these problems.

But back to the question: which translation do I prefer? It will probably come as no surprise to learn that I prefer the one that I was (in a very limited way) involved with. I think the NRSV is the best translation of the Bible available. And I especially like it in a study edition, such as the HarperCollins Study Bible".

We’re all guilty of that, heaven knows I am! Lately my frustrations with stupidity, pettiness and idiots has grown thin and I have to be conscious of becoming that which I don’t like with the “discussions” here. With that said I don’t think calling idiots out from time to time and letting them know that they’re idiots is necessarily a bad thing. It’s when guys follow others around and destroy every discussion with their teenage chick behavior that it becomes maddening. If it wasn’t for guys like us letting the idiots know that they’re idiots they’d never know that they’re idiots. 😉

Don’t think of it as name calling think of it as doing a public service for idiots….a version of therapy that necessitates honest, direct, assessments without a spoonful of sugar to make it go down easier. Some people pay big bucks for that kind of honesty but we’re willing to do it for free ..but instead of getting a thanks the idiots expect an apology. 😂😂

In any event….I can’t abide by anyone that puts themselves on a pedestal and thinks they’re approaching prophet status based on their works. I’m more than a little suspicious of those that “brag” about healing cancer and various other assorted illnesses or claim more authority on Christianity than us laymen.

RHClark….Your opinions and knowledge on these threads are always thought provoking and appreciated. The religious threads have always been a hotbed of emotional posts but lately they have been a lot more civil. The fact that these threads can get emotional is not necessarily a bad thing (imo). For the believers here I can understand why they can get emotional from time to time since our relationship with Jesus is a deeply emotional one. I guess what I’m trying to say (poorly) is that I appreciate your input and I find you, antlers, krp and several others here are most definitely an asset on here and I hope you continue with your intelligent, thought provoking posts.

Prof. Bart Ehrman is a specialist in Koine Greek
scripture , having gained his PhD at Princeton under
Metzger.

Ehrman in his YT video channel makes it very
clear that Paul named, accepted and highly
praised female church leaders , which you can
confirm for yourself in scripture.

Pliny as governor of Bithynia under Trajan
wrote that he interogated female deacons
from the small Xtian population.


"I became obsessed with studying Greek and decided I wanted to do a PhD working on Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, to gain qualifications to teach in a secular college or university as a (lone) evangelical Christian. The leading expert in Greek manuscripts of the New Testament was a scholar named Bruce Metzger. He taught at Princeton Seminary. So I decided I wanted to go there to study with him.,"
( Bart Ehrman blog: May 7, 2017)

It is a way of dismissing those who question or disagree with someone's beliefs - - - ''What would he know, he's just an idiot.''

It's neither an argument or a rebuttal.

Calling someone a liar who lies isn't dismissing... or someone that steals a thief... and so on.

Someone that constantly acts like an idiot, is one.

You don't get to dictate your reputation, it's what others say of you.

Ringman deserves his reputation.

Kent

All women preach, all the time, to whoever might be in close proximity. Whether or not they should do so from a podium is another question.

We should listen, to those that preach well.

Hey, speaking of idiots:

Did you fugking morons know that the meaning to a lot of Metallica and Danzig songs are debated by those that follow and study their music?

And that the the authors and performers of these songs are still fugking alive?

Or you call someone a liar because you don't like having your faith questioned, where calling them a liar is the same means of defense as calling them an idiot or a troll.

RHClark, I appreciate your insight. You’ve repeatedly shown that your position is clearly supported by scripture. And reading the original language interpretations from the top Greek and Hebrew scholars in the last 100 years bolsters that position.

The two passages mentioned in the New Testament that are restrictive of women were written for a specific situation in a specific church, and shouldn’t be used as a mandate for all churches in all times in all places. If God gives a woman abilities in speaking and leadership, then those abilities can certainly be used in the church. And if a really spiritually gifted person in a church is a woman, then she can certainly speak and teach with authority.

Those two passages in the New Testament have traditionally been used by some to say that women can’t speak in the church or have authority over men, and therefore can’t be pastors…when examination of the context of the passages, and the situation in which they were written…have been disregarded.

But these interpretations contradict other scriptures that clearly show that God sometimes puts women in positions of authority over men, and gives them authoritative words too.

Antlers,

Thanks for sharing. Your info seems well thought out and makes sense, doesn’t contradict other scripture on that subject.

Ps 119:160, “the SUM of thy Word is true”. Same concept when Israelites were instructed to eat the whole Passover lamb. They couldn’t pick and choose, it’s not a cafeteria plan. It’s the sum of the Word that’s Truth. If ya think it contradicts, dig deeper.

DF

Pretty words, Dirtfarmer. This is late, but apropos. Often I have asked people who claim the Bible is filled with contradictions to give me a couple. And yet none gave me a clear example. One .com friend told me something like, "Look at the resurrection." When I pressed him, he wouldn't answer.

Contradictions have been given time and time again, only to be ignored or dismissed without debate, time and time again.

Yeah, the natural man will never understand, nor can he.

I Cor 2:14, “But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

Pretty well sums up believers vs non-believers, Truth vs foolishness.

DF

Call it what you like, Carrie Underwood singing, Blessed Assurance, is making a joyful noise unto The Lord.

Assertions of belief, not truth. Truth is proven by evidence. Nobody argues over the existence of proven things, the sun, moon, other planets, etc. What is written in old scrolls is neither evidence or proof of the truth of the claims their authors make.

Southern Baptists finalize expulsion of two churches with female pastors

The Southern Baptist Convention was rocked in 2022 by a scathing report that found complaints of sex abuse by pastors and staff were either ignored or covered up by top clergy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...scathing-report-sexual-abuse-2022-05-22/

Gaggin’ at gnats but swallowing camels.

Deacon (deaconess is the word that is actually used) simply means servant, which is what I believe is being referred to here. I do not think it is referring to an official position, as the requirements for that position are listed twice in Titus and Timothy. I would also put forward that deacon is not a position of authority. It is a position of servitude, to God and to the congregation, that is granted to a willing participant, by the eldership (the actual spiritual leaders of a congregation) of a congregation to facilitate accomplishing the goals put forth by the eldership. i.e. serving widows, orphanages, etc.

Nowhere in the Scripture does it say that women cannot serve and the instances you provide above are definitely good examples of women being outstanding Christians and actively serving Christ and their congregation. I do not think the examples you give show women of any authority over a congregation, merely Godly women who were dedicated to serving Christ.

Edit: I also thought I would share some thoughts on the "position" of a pastor. The modern use of the word is not consistent with the Biblical use. Not my words, but I thought he said it succinctly.

"So what is a “pastor”? If we rely on modern usage of the term, various dictionaries define “pastor” as “a minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation” or “the leader of a Christian congregation.” Note carefully the understanding of that term today: the pastor is “the leader” (definite article) of the church and is “in charge” of the congregation. But how does the Bible use that word?

The Greek word for “pastor” is poimen. The term is found frequently in the New Testament and is only once translated “pastors” (Eph. 4:11). Every other occurrence of the word is translated “shepherd.” By definition of the Biblical word, a pastor is a shepherd. Now, who does the Bible identify as the pastors or the shepherds of the church?

The verb form of the word for “pastor” is poimaino, and that word is used in two key instances in the New Testament to identify who a pastor is. Look at Acts 20:28 and First Peter 5:2 carefully. Both passages identify the WORK that is to be taken by certain men—they are to “shepherd the flock of God.” Both passages identify the POSITION of these men—they are “overseers.” Both passages are addressed to “elders” (Acts 20:17; 1 Pet. 5:1, Also Titus 1 in the description of eldership requirements) What does that indicate?

In God’s organizational structure for His church, He designed the church to have no human authority or organization above the local congregation. Each local congregation is to be overseen by a plurality (always a plurality!) of qualified men (1 Tim. 3:1-7; Tit. 1:5-9), called elders/presbyters (same Greek word), overseers/bishops (same Greek word) or pastors/shepherds (same Greek word). The plural emphasizes that no one man can exercise oversight over a congregation—there must be more than one elder/overseer/pastor in each congregation. Thus, the oversight and authority within a congregation is not in “an elder” (or “pastor”) but in the “eldership.” No elder (or pastor) is above another.

The preacher is not by definition, then, a “pastor.” He is not “the leader” “in charge” of the church. He is one of the members (sheep) of the congregation and is subject to the eldership (like all members, including the elders). He is not on a level “above” anyone else or to be “revered” as such (cf. Psa. 111:9); thus, there is no special title (ex: Pastor, Reverend, Father) for him to wear or to be called (Matt. 23:5-12)."

The natural world doesn’t drive the spiritual world. It’s the other way around. The spiritual preceded the natural, created the natural. In the beginning was God.

The natural will never explain the spiritual. Speculation vs revelation. I’ll go with the latter.

DF

I’m not surprised