Recent reports says to be Middle Class today your income needs to be 64K-70K.
That's not me.

Is that per person in the family or household? It seems like poverty level for a family of 5 with today's prices.

Bb

That's gotta be area specific.


You do probably need 10,000 more dollars to live like you did 4 years ago though.

When I retired, I was middle. Know I’m the bottom of the heap!?

64-70k is the low end of middle class, if i remember right 160k is top end . We are middle in the middle class .

It’d be tough right now to raise a family on that amount. Doable, but wouldn’t be as much fun as it could be.

It’s a stupid thing to generalize. Vast differences in cost of living in this country.
I got quite a few guys making in that range before benefits though. Median household income is $74,000 and median home price in our area is
$335,000
Which follows the 1-4/1-5 rule for housing cost as a percentage of your income

Combined income ?

What’s median household income and home cost in your area of AK?

I guess I'm Middle Class

Henderson, NV
Median Income: $85,000
Median Single Family Home, Owner Occupied: $428,000

Nope, I'm below the poverty line.

A retired person living on SS plus the proceeds of his savings, 401K, IRS, and other investments, has very little actual income since he already owns the savings and he paid for the SS as he worked. Yet, even with little outside income, he could be living pretty well if he planned it right.

Its not doable if you plan on owning a home anf it would take living in a very poor area to survive on that for a family

$1M/year in a high priced city is like $50k/year in a town with good hunting.

I've never understood all of this.

We have been middle or under it all my life.
By the specs anyway.

When the top is 266% of the bottom, they ain't in the same class.

If $60k kept a family of 4 going here, they wouldn't go far.
A $10-20k increase is an absolutely huge increase.

Provided we are talking folks with way better money sense that average for Americans.


We got that $10k (after taxes) bump when our mortgage was paid.
It was unreal, suddenly we had money we didn't know what to do with.
But, that that better than average money sense.
Average sense would have bought two new cars on 8 year loans,
since we "could afford" them.

Working poor is what dad always said.

I'm right in that range as the sole provider for a family of four. We get by all right.

Working poor. I like that and can live with it.

Don’t know. Don’t care. I retired early, have everything I need and pretty much everything I ever wanted. I fail to see the need to compare that to what others have or don’t have.

Wife & I together, upper lower class if we were to be labeled.

I label me, debt free with income. Case closed.

Just a redneck livin inda hills,,,, wit a grin...

I'm low klass. And have many friends in low places. RZ.

Have to cancel your Disney+ account?

From what I read, that's an Individuals Salary.

Really?


Then no.

I guess not

Middle Class but Alaskan Poor.

Yer top of the heap to me Buddy!

it's a good life to be honest and not worry about how I can make more money or how I'm going to extract that extra dollar out of some one.

For folks that don't know what that means is that our household makes a middle income salary but I don't have a Supercub, 180, Woolridge, or a fancy Polaris SXS. Toys in Alaska equate to whether you are rich or poor.

Same here on the rez.


We have two 4 wheelers in the garage and a Ranger out in the driveway. And any one of those machines is worth more than my pickup.....lol
(maybe not the old 4 wheeler but still..)


All work related equipment though, no fun stuff like boats or campers.

"Middle Class" is very wealthy to me.

No, they equate to whether your upside down or not. I know a lot or people with a HELL of a lot less money than me who have way more toys. Then again, I have a buddy with all the toys, and his net worth is in the tens, if not hundreds of millions. Just because you have toys doesn’t mean you have money.

If that's individual, I'm screwed.
We ain't there.
A little overtime could get me there, but that's been missing for years.
Guess I'll settle for,

We live in a little town where everyone knows everyone.

Sorta.


You at least know the old families and what they own.

Some of them show their money and some don't.

Wife and I are retired now collecting SS some saving had to slow down from the way we used to live I'd say upper lower class now. I'm ok with that had lots of fun in our younger days. Hell, I ain't complaining owe less than $10k so I sleep good at night no worries about being in debt over my head.

At what age?

Ed(46 here), money has never been easier to make but it still takes work.

Literally!

I have noticed that the further east you go...the less flashy people get.


We got a bunch of flashy big wheelers in my county.


Some of those guys don't have a pot to piss in.


Go over east a ways and you might be talking to the richest guy in valley county and not know it.

Just remember

El Palacio de Varminto Diddler is 5,000 square feet

That's yuuuuuge.

Sam,

Trust me I know work. My point being my 25 year old successful son with two "babies" makes twice the above numbers renting in San Antonio and collects grocery coupons. One car payment the other owned. Where one lives and age matter. Their "luxury" is their faith.

That amount of money wouldn't go far here.
We ain't rich, but we do just fine.

That trait used to be much more common.


The richest guys wearing used work clothes.
And working!


3 guys come to mind.
A trucking company/coal mine owner, a driller, and a guy who owned multiple outfits.
Folks talked bad about all 3. "He dresses like he doesn't have a pot to piss in, and he is one of the richest guys in the county." 2 were double digit millionaires in the 80s.
All three were willing to get dirt, grease, or crap up to their shoulders at a minutes notice if need be.

Folks wondered about their "success"!🤣🤣🤣
A bit of luck, a ton of work, smart money management.
All three were dirt freaking poor as kids.


On the other hand.
The guy in the car business 10 years ago.
30's moving a ton of used cars. Expanded, big lot, garage.
His name on cars everywhere.
He bought the house, the boats, the bikes.
Then one day the cops took him, the banks took the cars.
He got behind, (surprise) started not buying the promised warranties.
Held the title work, used the money to prop up the floor plan. Didn't let the bank know the car sold...

If that dumbass had lived poorer for a half dozen years, bought the toys as he
could afford them. Instead of on credit. He would own a damn nice house, all those toys, and be pulling in a million a year now. Instead, he lost it all. And left in his family in a bind while being a guest of the state.


Old folks used money to make money.
Today it's important to show money. Even if the show breaks you

Richest guy I know drives a 20 year old s10 pickup.

He got it after driving another s10 pickup for 20 years.

Guy has more money than I could ever dream of.

You would never know.

My buddy has some big wheelers on his road.

Lots of nice things. What's the big deal right?

Well....after spending all that money on new shiny things....they couldn't afford a big enough tractor to plow themselves out in winter.

Buddy's dad drives several miles with his tractor to plow them out.



Oh well.

My wife and I are happy, we have no debt and I bring in enough to continue happily for the remainder of our lives. We are blessed but not rich. Where everyone else is on that scale is of no concern to me.

Don’t think so, certainly not rich.

My brother in law gets his clothes from the school lost and found. His net worth increased by 1.3 million last year.

Me and the wife made a little over $320k last year. Her car is newest, a 2015 Altima. My personal vehicle is a 2007 F-150 XL longbed. Haven’t had a car payment since 2009.
Built the house in ‘18 for $425k and will have it paid off soon.
Retirement accounts fully funded every year.

I don’t know how people get by on 65k, and still manage to drive $70k vehicles and live in a $400k house.

Sure is nice watching your savings grow and not having to worry about paying off debt.

https://howmuch.net/articles/average-income-of-top-1-per-cent

i super glud my fingers tagether

Would be interesting to see just how much/what stuff a "middle-class American" had in say 1965. Cars, where the price fell in the average cost of cars of the time, number of TV's, number of phones, cottages etc.

Seems like what we feel like we "must have" to be comfortable these days is quite a bit more than feeling like "we've got a good life" back then. Hell there's a thread here where a guy has 5 TV's and is complaining.

I mean - just how much stuff do you need to be happy? Today vs back then?

Feels like we're less happy today - regardless of what our money is buying.

I got all that stuff, but I couldn’t afford a tire for one of your tractors…

Not quite that far back, but say in the early 70s my parents had one land line (but you had to pay for long distance) and one TV that picked up 3 over the air channels. The amount of money that friends pay for digital subscriptions, apps, cell phones, etc. is quite high. Back then I would consider our family (small business owner) to be middle, middle class.

Yes

Their would be signs !

The thing is, to get along with what you have.
Neighbors down the road raised 6 children on 120 acres, nether parent worked off the farm

Bruh, I'm pretty sure you have an old gun that's worth more than our house...

My man!^^^^^^^

I was never in the middle of the class. They always set me back there in the very back, next to the radiator pipes covered in old rotten asbestos insulation.

All I'll say is, FJB!

Dollar store glue? Regular or gel?

We run between 40 and 50 thousand for the household.

It feels pretty middle classy for this area.

It all depends upon the price of Armour potted meat in your area.

It’s pretty good metric

If stores do not carry it, then you Hi Society, you in a Rand Paul neighborhood

Growing up middle class was a house with a Chevy or Ford station wagon in the driveway.

Upper middle class (as in regular MDs, and other professionals) was a Buick or Olds in the driveway.

Only the rich had Cadillac and Lincoln cars...........and posers owned Mercedes and such.

I don`t owe nothin .

We was an AMC Matador wagon fambly

If the roof over your head keeps you warm and dry, you have safe potable water, enough food in the cupboard and you feel safe when you go to bed….
You’re doing better than 75% of the world minimum.

There is no such thing as poverty in the United States other than the willingly destitute ie. addicts, homeless etc. and even then they normally have access to food and shelter.

Ain't nothin but a fancy name for a Rambler............................


y'all was puttin' on airs an sech.

Only in America do our poor have an obesity problem.

We were right on the median income for my area last year. This year is looking better. The numbers quoted are a good bit higher than our area's median. Middle class..? I guess not, but we are happy.

Median fam income here is 55k, house is 234k. Which I would gather is up quite a bit since I moved here 9 years ago. 2 bed homes are up 68% YOY and 3bed are up 26% YOY.

That might be true, in part because the "average " American family is smaller than it was for us boomers., so they are likely calculating middle class with today's family size in mind

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183657/average-size-of-a-family-in-the-us/

Here in dog town the median family income is $49k, 30% poverty rate, median property value is $104k.
(2021 data)


My little worker bee wife makes about $60k and given the recent bump in the cattle market I will make about twice what she does.

So needless to say we do okay here on the rez living in a little house and driving old vehicles.

My Grand Father had a green Rambler station wagon !

We dont get anything from filling out those FASFA forms


Say we make too mutch

but they still require we/college kids fill that chit out

According to those numbers, we should be middle class. But maybe I'm living in the past, because I just can't enjoy myself like we used to do. We used to go out for dinner every couple weeks, have a pretty nice steak or slice of prime rib, 2 or 3 drinks, just relax and enjoy the evening, not worry about the money.
I priced the menu at the entrance on the nearest dinner house the other day, 36 for 14 oz ribeye, 14 for the salad, rumor has it simple mixed drink is 12 minimum...so for 2 of us we are looking at 150 bucks just for dinner and 4 drinks...then more for dessert and tips. I'm pretty sure I'm not middle class anymore.

Im just somewhere in the middle..

Spend that ‘going out to eat money’ on a 1/2 dozen 7lb ribeye roasts from Publix for $5.99 lb during Christmas sales.

carve them up at home, cut yourself some 2” thick ones and vacuum seal them.

Drink your booze at home too

Learn to be frugal, be disciplined and eat like a king at home

Hell with going to some joint and dropping $100.00 for some fuggin ambiance and snoddy cûnt waitress

Facebook selfies from home arent as cool as from the bar…

Same here man.


If I'm eating out there is 99.9% chance it's something quick and dirty from the hot case at the gas station. And that chit is $$$ enough!


Yesterday at Town Pump on the way home a 6 pack of Heineken, 6 pack of Claws and 6 chicken strips was around $36. It's the 666 Sunday Special they run.
(I shared the chicken strips with my wife and the dogs)

Just barely...until the Pandering Pedophile is re-installed.

They REALLY have a 666 Sunday special???? You must live among some interesting people.

I identify as Low Class.

No, I was just kidding.

Don't want to get Town Pump in trouble, they are a good store.

My kid says I’m cheap.

I prefer frugal.




P

My Scottish ancestry Canadian buddy says he "thrrrrifty".

Eggsfuknzackley, that is what bugs me, I can buy a 7 bone standing rib, USDA Choice for less than the price of a dinner out.

Word.

As we speak.

Merle Haggard, Working Man's Blues?

We like discounted fresh turkeys after a holiday.

They sell them dirt cheap.
I cut the breaststroke out, each makes a fine meal sliced, dredged, and fried.
The legs and thighs get roasted over a bed of stuffing.
The wings and carcass get turned into turkey soup.
Meat for 4 meals for $20 or less.





Sam,
You mention local average wages.
I fell much better reading our local averages than the national ones.

Thing is, we are frugal, but can do the things we allow ourselves to do.
Freely.

Our youngest went through a Joneses stage.
Hated out small house, hated that we don't drive now cars.

It took years, but now she understands that we one our home (for real now)
we own our cars. They don't own us. My home and car doesn't force me to
go to work, then take my pay.

We go out to eat when we want.
Order what we want. (If not, it's cheapness, not lack of ability to pay)
We go on vacation, paid in full as we do it.

We haven't worried about money in years.
And combined, we might touch $100k. Maybe.




I'm happier living my worry free life than most making twice as much and worrying
about mortgages and 3 car payments.

It's leftover night at Castle Conrad.


(not whining)

Andy says "WRITE IT UP!"

A guy at work and I were talking about that the other day.

Reminded me of a good song…

Regular Guy

Leftover corned beef and cabbage today. And damn, the brisket from the neighbor's stew was about the best my wife and I ever had. Last year's commercial corned beef sucked, tougher than shoe leather. One piece left, probably have that for lunch tomorrow too.

As for our County, I just looked up the numbers on the Census site. Seems we're doing better than many here, having two retirement incomes helps some I guess. Honestly I thought our poverty numbers would be higher.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/modoccountycalifornia/PST045222

I’ll never understand people bragging about being low to low/middle class. I remember when I was young and my dad told me he wouldnt feel like he succeeded unless I did a hell of a lot better than he and my mom did, and they did pretty darn well for themselves. As it stands, my income puts me well within the top 5%, and my wife’s puts hers well into the top 10%. But here’s the funny thing, we live a very solid middle class lifestyle. My truck is 13 years old and her SUV is 7 years old. I have never owned a totally new vehicle. We bought our boat used, and have only been on 1 expensive vacation as a family in 17 years, and we don’t piss money away. Yes, we try and do a date night once a month where we will drop $200-$250 on dinner, but thats much needed alone time away from the kids. I have plenty of friends who have a hell of a lot less money than me, but drive nicer vehicles, go on a lot more vacations, and generally look like they have a lot more money. I also have friends who are really LOADED and you’d never know it.

All defining income ranges into classes does is divide people. There's a reason they do that. You either make enough or you don't. Either way, you make your own decisions and affect your own outcome. Do what you want, spend what you want, save what you want, and stop worrying about what others are doing.

Putting people into classes just plays into the game. Don't be pawns.

I agree on all but one.


I look at folks who I know are in a similar or less situation to us regarding income.

The have gorgeous homes, new cars, motorcycles, SxS, boat, take real nice vacations...

Obviously all on payments.

But I still try to figure how this works over 30 years?

I know our mortgage payment bled a lot of our money.
One big car payment would have forced us to "manage" our money closely.
So how do they make it work?


What are we doing wrong?


My wife's take, and she is right in many cases, is that it's running on Mommy's money.

I've dumbfounded by the number of 40+ year old people whose parents continually feed them money. Buy cars, toys, pay for the grandkids activities...

You are a Genius... for saying just that.

I don't know where I land - I mean obviously on a w2 "this is what you made last year" I do but I seem to live well below people I know who make 1/3 of what I do (quads, boats, trucks etc) and way better than people who make 3x what I do (impulse gun buys without worrying about where I am in the pay cycle) so classification is useless.

The real question moreover is...

Do you have PHYSICALLY HOLD sufficient HARD COMMODITIES... to remain solvent when the ultimate economic collapse occurs?

Depends, 80k in the Bakken or say Bozeman isn’t really that much.

A bit of brilliance in this thread.

Yup learned to do that, life teaches it if you are smart enough to listen and pay attention. I have less income than any on the whole thread. But my home is paid for as are my vehicles. Have the sptg goods I think I need and want
Gonna buy me a used hailed on 30' rv this spring and haul it up to Montana to load on Sam Olson or Conrad, maybe do a little farm and ranch work to pay my rent. Yeah and you know I got a new right knee this winter I had everyone else pay for because that is the only way you can afford one never mind your class. It's not how much money you make but how well you meet your needs with what you can afford to pay..mb

I have enough to do what I want, live how I like. That makes me Happy-Class…..

It’s the tapped out lifestyle. Every penny they will make for years to come is already spent. All that’s left is the payments.

Funny thing is, more money doesn’t fix the problem. I’ve had employees that did very well and I gave them raises or good sized bonuses, and it made absolutely no difference in their life. They were as broke at $40K as they were at $30K, back when that was great money around here.

By the OP metric, Yes - middle class. And a Millionaire according to Dave Ramsey. Sure doesn't feel like it. Wife and I drive 10 yr old cars, live in the same house for 25 years and live within our means. Bidenomics has taken a serious toll on our expendable income.

Dave Ramsey is an idiot.

Short on cash low on change.
But rich in love and other things.

J.J. Grey

Yep, that's why old Dave is broke and on hard times. Cause he is so stupid.

Started living that way Dec 2019! Best way to be.

Well, then he's a very wealthy idiot.

I've floated house payment for straight commissioned sales folks making 250K +/- more than once

Y'all besties then?
You know, birds of a feather and all.

DR fills a need.
Many people do not get any financial education from home whatsoever.
Try to imagine what it's like for someone with maybe a 9th grade education or less that works hard, makes a 'decent' living but just doesn't understand finances.
Often they wake up one day and realize that they are in way over their head, upside down in every direction.
CC companies and financiers make it so damned easy to do.

If those people will follow his advice it helps tremendously.

As for the people that get in over their heads with intent, I've not a fuq to give.

Having some sort of financial class in high-school would help some kids I think.

That and a good guidance counselor.

People with a grasp of math and finances likely aren't working in a high school.

Too busy handing out participation trophies and talking gender to do something helpful for the kids.

Ive been told I'm more of a "no-class" category.

That ain't no schit!

My parents were divorced. Neither taught me much about finance. Grandpa was very well off, never really taught me much as far as finance.

Took me a while but I started to see why grandad and one set of parents did very well and the other just seemed to scrape by at times.

I scraped for a few years until I quit trying to keep up with the Jones'.

Also started saving $$ for something I wanted but once I got to saving I realized I didn't want/need whatever it was I started saving for. Did pick that up from grandpa when I was actually listening to what he said.

I have some friends who always have 2 newer vehicles, newer boat, SxS and anything else they wake up and think they need. Been bankrupt 2x and never change their lifestyles while always worrying about money.

I have no use for someone who won’t educate themselves, as the information is easily available to those who want it. Ramsey is smart in that he has learned to pander to those uneducated people who can’t seem to learn how to not overspend. Paying off a house, especially when interest rates have been low for so many years? Absolutely stupid. I’m at 2.9% and the market has averaged 8% historically. If I paid it off that would be a loss of 5% per year plus the tax deduction on the interest……No credit cards? Available credit and oldest credit lines all affect your credit score. You know what high credit scores lead to? Lower interest rates on loans. Not to mention most cards now days pay 4% on gas purchases and or food purchases, so your giving up those savings by not using a credit card, though you should never carry a balance. Buying used cars? Only if you know exactly what the history is on them. You’re better off buying a new Toyota with a low interest rate and driving it for 250-300k miles…. 8% withdrawal rate on 401k’s? Most financial planners and professionals will suggest a 4% withdrawal rate, because 8% counts on historic averages, and totally ignores that averages are just that, averages. You don’t want to be forced to withdraw money when the market tanks. Ramsey completely ignores that. I could keep going and going, but Ramsey panders to the clueless, so for that, he is smart. But if you want to build wealth, his methods are about as stupid as you can get.

Haha, Shyte, it was given to me by a customer, after helping them out !!!

To "toys" !!!

Got lots, but .............................................

All old & paid for in cash !!

3 boats;

Mid 80's 12 ft Naden, 2 x working 9.9hp outboards & a trailer - Paid $1600
90's 14 ft Lund deep & wide, 1998 25hp Suzuki & trailer - Paid $2600
Late 90's 17 ft Lund Pike & 50 hp Merc & trailer - Paid $3200

Quads;

1991 Honda fourtrax 350 - Paid $1600
1988 Honda fourtrax 350 - Paid $1000

Sleds;

1994 skidoo MXZ 470 - Paid $1600
2009 skidoo Tundra 550 fan - Paid $3200
When I bought this, I gave away my 1994 skidoo 503R to an employees kid.

Camper trailer;

2007 Trail lite hybrid - Paid $3800
8 x 12 ft Ice Shack - Paid $1500

Debt;

4 years into a very manageable mortgage on our new place.
No business debt, other than monthly payables & Deb's 2021 Subaru is leased through the business.

Doug asked me many years ago, why I had all old shyte, not new like everyone else.
Told him 2 reasons: First, because I can work on & fix the old stuff - 2nd & most important - You only buy toys you can afford to pay cash for !

Having some sort of financial class in high-school would help some kids I think.

That and a good guidance counselor.[/quote]

Don't sell yourself short Jim - It comes from HOME / PARENTING / COMMUNICATION.

From what I've seen, you'll not have problems with the Kiddos !

The absolute FIRST way to build "wealth" is to learn how be debt free. Dave teaches that better than most. While you are right about some things, you are missing a huge point about "educating themselves". When some folks have not gotten off a six block area their ENTIRE life it's hard for them to educate themselves on the finer things in Paris, France. (not to be confused with Paris, Texas)

Try not to paint with such a wide brush.

I used to do exactly that, but I've spent the last 6 years or so being "educated" on how people stay in generational poverty. Once you sit down and literally share a meal or two with folks you start to understand. Some we have pulled through, some we never will. Some actually like being willfully ignorant. Knowing would make them to be responsible.

Nice 99's

Son and I discussed our finances a couple of years back.

When I told him what his mother and I make[salary]
he said "no way, you couldn't have bought this property making that"
I asked him "have you ever seen us pull a sticker off of anything with wheels on it or buy a 'new' boat like so many of your friends families?"

Like Roy Rogers, and Popeye the sailorman, I yam what I yam

We live in a house I built in the late seventies. Working in the wood industry, lumber and plywood, came at substantial discounts. It's a moderate four bed, two bath. Haven't had a house payment since 1988. One garage and one shop built as dollars would allow.
When I was still working as the (boss) , I drove my pickups an average of 17 years. Guys that worked for me, one in particular, had five new pickups, while I drove the same one year after year. When I hired a new employee, and they showed up with a new truck in a month or so, I knew that they were committed to four or five years at work.
We aren't rich, our children make their own way. Successfully I will proudly add. During my last ten years of work, I made sure that new toys were purchased and paid for. Boat, camp trailer, four wheelers and such. I always figured what ever class people put themselves in, was what they desired or settled for. I will say I'm still buying ammo, primers when available, and lots of fishing gear. Low class not aspiring for anything else at this age, just enjoying life!

Total BS! If you want to make serious money, you have to borrow or get investors. Paying off a 2.9% interest rate on a house when the market averages 8% is not a way to build wealth. It’s financial suicide. I have a saying. “You can make a LOT of money off OPM!!” The real-estate market is a perfect example. I’ve carried some serious debt over the years while OPM paid my mortgages, and I built wealth. I’m noticing where the real-estate market is heading, and I’m about to take some large debts to diversify my portfolio. Debts that will pay off in spades.

JJ's going to own us all one day!

Book it!!!

I agree that a consumer math course should be a mandatory requirement of high school kids, as many of them, probably a majority of them, have no clue about how to manage money, credit, and debt.

Debit is, for some people, an addiction and like drug addiction, credit/debt addiction can be easy to start and difficult to stop once you start down that path. Just as drugs make the user feel good, rewarding yourself with new stuff bought on credit feels good too.

Nope. But I do understand Ramsey is a snake oil salesman. I bought my first house for $189k in 2002 during the liar loan days. I was 25 and making about $30k a year and there was no way I could afford it. BUT, I had two college roommates looking for a place to live so I rented out two rooms to them for slightly under market value. They got cheap rooms and I had 90% of my mortgage paid for. 6 years later I took out a HELOC against the house to buy another house after I got married. I rented my original house out to a needy single mom who paid cash, and I was positive cash low on the house. That loan gave me the 20% I didn’t have in cash for the down payment to purchase another house that I lived into when I got married. Fast forward to 2015 and we were looking for a lot to build our dream house. This time, I had the cash for the 20% down, but the market was doing great and interest rates were dirt cheap. I took another HELOC out to purchase a lot (I had paid off the first by that time) and took on more debt yet. We purchased the lot at about 3-4% on the HELOC, while the home prices and lot values were going up a hell of a lot faster than 3-4%. When it came time to build my house, I sold both homes (one on each coast), threw the money into the market, and took out a dirt cheap loan to build the house. I did all that going into debt, while using OPM to build my wealth. All that on an original investment of about $20k. That $20k investment is now worth close to $2 million, in just 22 years.

once again I UNDERSTAND, but likely 35% of those plagued with generational poverty cannot spell portfolio. I have two properties now at 2.65. Your point is understood to those that have been given the knowledge to understand.

If I ask a bum living under a bridge to give me a thousand bucks, it's a high probability he can't.....................unless I give him a thousand bucks first.
People cannot give something they have never been given.

And we should stop asking them for something they don't have until they have it.

Simplepeddler what WE fail to grasp is that people like JJ don't care one iota that some may have never been given advice to help navigate life.[those to the left only 'claim' to be kinder & gentler]

Luckily [for me],
it was explained in a crude way early on:
"do you want to be a slave to interest, or have interest be a slave to you"

Nobody ever force fed me this stuff. I learned it myself. It’s not hard, and anyone can do it.

I paid off my mortgage three years ago. Strictly speaking you are right, but my industry is so fluid I wanted the financial security that comes with no debt. That way I was free of the fear of foreclosure as a result of a layoff.




P

Education level?
Parents education level?

It's not only buying a new boat or car that "kids" need to be taught to wait for.

I've always cracked up, in a sad sort of way, to see some 18-20 year old with a schiedtbox Hyundai or Kia and $4000 worth of wheels and tires on it. Likely financed.

They need to be taught to go to the goodwill store and get a used sofa, a used coffee table, and if need be get a hand me down TV from someone when they get their first apartment or house. Not only be taught to do that, but be taught it's OK to do that.

Then again, that might be...........................................BOOMERTHINK?

Mom had a high school degree, dad dropped out in 9th grade. I couldn’t afford a regular college for 4 years so I did 2 years at a CC with a sport scholarship before transferring to the cheapest state school there was. First one, and still the only one in my direct family with a bachelors degree. Econ was my minor, but due to stupid mistakes, was actually only 3 courses short to double major. I figure once I had my main degree, double majoring would only lead to more drinking and chasing tail, and my chances of double majoring would be greatly dimished. 🤣. Plus, I was ready to go to work and make money.

So imagine both parents with a 7,8,9th grade edu and then add yourself to the mix at that level.
There are way more at the level above than what we see. Many are very hard workers that are barely making ends meet and often times it can be some unforeseen setback that puts them in dire financial straits. A place where there appears to be no way out.
Those scenarios are DR's target audience IMHO

Not that DR himself didn't go down the tubes financially before he started his FPM many years ago.
And FYI- he lost it all via RE.

Use your words man!


I didn't understand anything of that.

Jetjockey, if not Ramsey then who do you recommend to read?

education
Dave Ramsey
In My Honest opinion
Financial Peace Ministry
For Your Information
Real Estate


Capeesh?

I think those education levels only exist in West Virginia, Kentucky, and the inner cities.

Believe what you will....

I recommend reading Ramsey to educate yourself on his beliefs, but also Suze Orman and Clark Howard. More importantly, just do the research yourself and find out what works for you. I LOVE going to dinner and date night once a month with my wife, but Suze Orman says it’s a waste of money. I refuse to pay off my house even though Ramsey says I should. The more you research yourself the more you’ll learn and understand because there is no one size fits all 100% guarantee. Google things like “how does Warren Buffet invest,” and “what kind of car lasts the longest.” Run a compounding interest calculator, ask about why you should back door a Roth. Those kinds of things. Ask yourself whats good to spend your money on (things that go up in value) and what’s bad to spend your money on (things like cars that immediately depreciate.) Knowledge is power when it comes to this stuff. The more you know, the more you’ll understand.

Jetboi givin wealth lessons LOL😂🤣

Your financial prowess as you compare it to what you think of some of us is outstanding.

I'm happy for you sir.

Just remember, there may come a time where your persona will meet head on with daily reality. That's when you will need to find your heart.

No, that’s when I need to find, and lace up my work boots. Nothing ever comes easy, and too many Americans want things given to them and to blame everyone else for their financial situation. The people I really do feel for are the people who come into health problems, and I really do feel for those people. Don’t get me started on our country’s complete failure to help those people.

He is quite passionate for a sockpuppet.

That is the nicest way I ever saw of telling someone to GFY!

Jetboi is as full of schit as a Christmas turkey

I’m sitting here smiling, because Jetboi sounds EXACTLY like Dave Ramsey. Word for word, concept for concept, exactly the same.

The pre-bankruptcy Dave Ramsey, that is. They could easily be brothers.

Like Dave Ramsey, Jetboii is one recession, one health issue, one tax change, one divorce, one child with “issues”, one lawsuit, one “pandemic” away from bankruptcy.

Youth and enthusiasm is a beautiful thing, but wisdom beats it every time.

Believe it or not, according to some sources, California only ranks higher than Puerto Rico in the percentage of the population attaining a HS diploma with 84.45%.

KY and WV are 3-4 percentage points higher than Cali.

Cali does have a good proportion of those going on to college degrees (or moving here from overseas)

Data from the Census dept, so believe what you will

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment

I tried........

Oh to be young and naive again.

Side note: Guess which US university has more Rhodes Scholars than any other?


WVU

Wow....and I used to think being a Rhodes Scholar was prestigious.....

Jetboi you finished that gunroom yet

Jetboi could sell stocks and pay off his house today not including my 6 months of salary in savings, zero debt, a fat enough 401k to probably retire tomorrow, and insurance against any health issues and not being able to work. I also married my best friend, so divorce isn’t an issue. But, that’s not the plan. The plan is to continue working until 60-65, then retire with enough money that I can draw 4-6% off my 401k and hand my kids about $4 million each when I’m gone. If that’s one recession, one health issue, one tax exchange away from bankruptcy, then our country is really screwed.

Dude,

first the comment about my dash cam needing to be waterproof,

Now basing on WV.

You feelin' alright? Caught something from my buddy slumlort?

I'm technically upper class, but feel middle class at best when I look at the prices of everything.

I make more then my grandparents did, combined and adjusted for inflation, and they had 20 acres in one area, 5 in another area, plus a modest house not on either of those two properties.

Looking at $700k homes that aren't anything special. Basic trucks like F150s that are $80k. Boats, Razrs, other toys... I don't feel upper class to have those things. I do see a lot of people who do and they either make a ton of $$$ or they have a ton of debt. Maybe both.

Sounds like you could finish ur gunroom then maybe a few guns to put in it besides a empty fuqkin closet with Jimmy the talkin bass in tha wall JFC

You don’t listen too well do ya? Remember when I said the GC doesnt want to start until the snow is gone and he can cut outside? Guess what, another 10” yesterday, on top of 2ft two weeks ago. Btw, I have the guns, but you can never really have too many guns.

What the fuqk does snow have to do with inside work does evry body in Bumfuk hibernate like you

Well, both he and I would prefer my house not get loaded with dust from the saws. So, it will be much easier to just cut outside when the weather warms up.

Wouldn’t want to mess up ur phaagy carpets I agree👍

Ah yes. Hand knotted Persian rugs are now “phaggy” are they?

Love or hate Dave Ramsey, I'm glad he's around.

We did the Dave Ramsey FPU, it works, and I have no regrets. Still doing it, though I no longer pay to be a member. It was the best ROI I ever got for around $300 (2 years paying for his program starting mid 2018). My wife and I cleared off a little over 100K in consumer and medical debt in 1.5 years and now only owe $30K on the house.

Say what you will about DR, but we were in over our heads and needed help. The program gave us a plan, and it gave us a clear path out. We didn't have to declare bankruptcy, we didn't miss paments, and it made our marriage stronger without money problems.

The best thing was my daughter saw what we did, and we had conversations about how we as parents screwed our finances up. She now has a full-time job, lives in an apartment she pays for without roommates, drives a paid for 2006 Honda Civic, has six months of expenses in the bank,and has been contributing 15% to her own Roth IRA since she went to work the Monday after graduating high school. She has been an HVAC apprentice for three years now and will be eligible to test for journeyman in two years.

Sounds phaagy to me good luck cleanin cat schit outa those 😂

a good frend tells of armmdillas with leprasee on the nose

tru dat.

Was just lookin' back at the crackhead tree trimmer threads. Jeebus you two could be fun back in the day. Tell our friend I said hello.

I’m an orphan up for adoption. House trained and everything.





P

You obviously don't listen to Ramsey.

Or know many people across wide socioeconomic levels.

I'd bet you hang with college educated middle class and up.
The smart superior types, according to some.



It's amazing how much money some callers make, and how educated, they are.
Only to say, "Right now we are a million dollars in debt, and earning $450k/yr."

Dumbass me is thinking, "That's not a problem, live on $50k take home and not a cent more. Everything else, except 401, goes into the debt. In 5 or six years you'll be debt free and earning over $450k. You will be able to live like the (poor)rich. Because you will be there."

I've known many folks herewho lived at the poverty level.
They owned a home, even if it was a trailer.
Had a few thousand cash readily available. And could borrow pretty much by asking.

Meanwhile the smart car dealer mentioned above was moving millions per year and went flat ass broke. Declared bankruptcy, served time, and is probably still in debt to the IRS.

The poor badtards I mentioned earlier didn't graduate high school.
They ended up running businesses they built, worth tens of millions.

It's somewhat taught,
somewhat learned.
And somewhat common sense/instinct/impulse control.



Simple peddler is right on about generational poverty.
See it, know it, live amongst it.
It's almost a mental illness. Given a choice, they pick the worst option, almost overtime.


Young man, dirt poor, never had nothin.
He gets a great job somehow, making da money.
And he immediately buys the cool new car.
He WILL let his trash girlfriend drive it.
He WILL screw up the job, alcohol, attitude, or drugs.
After a year or so of making great money, if he is lucky, he keeps that now battered car. And it's all he has to show.

Seen that movie over and over.

Once in great while, one does good.
His family is pissed about his success. They continually make comment about
money, making having some sound bad.
Try to borrow, don't pay it back. "HE, don't need it!"
Pretty soon they stay away.
Family says, "He thinks he is too good for us."

Congrats to you and family for getting your finances in good order.

I find DR advice to be great for those who have little self control or no idea about money. I also see him getting extremely rich by telling others how to spend their money. If you need his advice, take it. Otherwise deicide for yourself how to best spend your own money and manage your own finances. Debt is not necessarily a bad thing if it's good debt. If you don't know that a 72 month, 9% interest car loan is a bad idea, then yeah, listen to Ramsey.

I manage my money well. Had retirement fully funded a long time ago. The big thing though is I spend and enjoy the money I make now. The idea that I have to work like a dog and hope someday I can actually enjoy the fruits of my labor is crap. What's the point if all you do is work and be miserable.

Again though, putting people into classes based on income is stupid. It's done to divide people. Stop being part of the problem.

Kinda silly though to get into any deep, meaningful discussions on finances when half the people here don't even understand why getting a tax refund is a bad thing.

I'm terrible at saving money. Fritter it away buying stupid chit on the internet. So far this week, 4 deliveries. German Grocery Store, Oregon Glove Company, TopGunAmmo and Chewy.
We just had $54 worth of pig ears delivered... And I don't even like pig ears!

But luckily I make 2/3 of my yearly income in one day. So all at once I have extra 'savings', which makes it real easy to make an extra 'large' payment on our only debt(rental house).

That is my way of saving money and it amounts to about 1/3 of my yearly income(think 20 year loan done in about 7). The rest of our money we save for bills, taxes and stupid (small)stuff.

$54 of pig ears 🤷‍♂️

Rez dog bougie chit.

When I live large we all live large.......lol

👍

Used to buy a bunch of those when I had
2 german shepherds.
They'd eat em like a round girl with a bag
of fun size snickers
Got too expensive

I can see that being an issue!


$3 per ear.

$4 per ear at the co-op and those are from Brazil.


How in da fuuck does a pig ear cost more than a pork chop?

If my homesteadin' great grandpa knew what the future held he'd a bitch slapped all of us!


lol

I gotta connection on pig ears real close by ill get some intel 👍

Jeebus. Us po’ people swing by the local meat locker just before their land fill run and ask with hat in hand if they’ll cut us some dog bones.

But then, copper wire was invented when two Dutchmen found a penny……

Damn Dutch, I'll have to check with the butchers that cut up the neighbor's beeves. See if they toss bones still. Most places I've seen in the bigger towns cut them up and put them in display cases as "marrow bones", soup bones, or just plain ol dog bones and they ain't free anymore.

Our butchers just load it up in black bags and we bring it to the guard dogs.

You sometimes have to pick out a rubber glove or a pop can.

That's kinda funny.

Beware if you find a trojan though.

My freaking dog can eat those in 30 seconds.
No more I say, no more....

Brokedick.

Anyway....a pig ear sandwich is popular in Jackson Mississippi.

Just a poor azz farm boy.

Ain't gonna marry in the fall...ain't gonna marry in the spring....

I got silver in the stars and gold in the morning sun.

We were going to buy our daughters dog some bones for his kennel, at the grocery store. $3.50/lb! ! No mistake. Three fifty!

And they were cut about 2 inches long, kept in the freezer.
Choking hazard, Hoss has no bone.


We have one Butcher shop in this county, I think. Not certain they kill.
Locker Plant, and retail.



I really miss the full service shop of my childhood.
Most of their meat walked in the back, you could buy anything pig but squeals.
Puddin and scrappel that were worth eating, kielbasa too.

Was nice to be able to ask for anything, and they could cut it for you.

Lotsa chops on a pig. Only 2 ears. Supply & demand. 🤔

That might be the best overall nugget of wisdom posted in a long time.

Paying off a mortgage changes one's life if one does not go right back into debt for trinkets and toys. I kept on paying what I was putting on the mortgage into a tax free savings account. Doesn't take long for the funds to add up and that way and if you need a new vehicle or other essentials, the money is there.

The rich live like they're poor and the poor live like they're rich.

Paying off a mortgage changes one's life if one does not go right back into debt for trinkets and toys. I kept on paying what I was putting on the mortgage into a tax free savings account. Doesn't take long for the funds to add up and that way and if you need a new vehicle or other essentials, the money is there.

The rich live like they're poor and the poor live like they're rich.[/quote.



You are so right.

I’m putting the mortgage into 401, and don’t miss it.
Just wish that $10k per year was the same as when I started the mortgage in 2000

We did the same thing 4 years ago.

Previously we had 3 financial priorities:

Mortgage
Retirement savings
Boys 529 plan for college

I always wanted the mortgage done before my son started college as an added buffer in case. Once the mortgage was paid off, we focused on the other two and a high yield savings account to use as a bringing strategy until I start collecting SS at 65.

Now without the mortgage, my pensions cover the bills and some savings, the bridging money is going towards the taxes on a Roth conversion in Dec.

i always say people use to work to eat know they work to play and blow their money on it
my father grew up on a farm and they would not butcher a cow always ate chicken and pork because they could get more for the beef...that says a lot about how people use to get by, now they just charge it

My dad used to make silk purses out of those…

Thanks, as DR says, "I did a whole lot of stupid." I failed to comprehend what my what my parents were teaching. My bad habits I mainly picked up in the Army, keeping up with others of my pay grade.

While my parents taught me a little about money and a whole lot of hard work. I never understood that they only borrowed money on things that made work more efficient, or to buy land. My parents are millionaires by DR standards, but they look like dirt poor ranchers/farmers. Dad turned 83 in March and still running 250 pairs of commercial cattle by himself, for the most part with minimal help from us kids and the grandchildren. Down from the nearly 500 he ran 10 years ago when he sold down to 100 pair due to the drought.

It took a lot of stupid, before we realized we were out of control. I know there are many ways to take control of your finances, the amount of financial gurus out there selling their product proves it. Just find the one that works for you. We chose DR FPU because it was offered at our church. It was nice to know we weren't alone in our community with wanting to take control of our finances. We had people who weren't even in our church attend.

I think the thing that most people are bothered about DR is his financial advice is very simple. Live within your means, have an emergency fund, and save for retirement. The rest of his program is more of a mental health counseling, and correcting the behaviors that got you in financial trouble in the first place. A lot of people don't want to hear that they are the main cause of their own situation.

My wife grew up on a farm. She never knew why they always ate cheese corn and pork, but never killed a cow until I explained it to her. I guess if you are immersed in it, you don’t really think about it.

I've told I have no class, so there is that.

Depends on location. In NE Arkansas many would say I was upper class even rich. Some places where cost of living is high I would be poor. I think I'll stay around here to live.

Being debt free except for the mortgage has been essential for us as a with two kids and the wife staying home. We drive old cars. We don't have any big toys (ATV, UTV, motor boat). We can still have fun - lots of camping and canoeing in our $100 aluminum Grumman canoe. But we never take expensive vacations. Those sacrifices enable us to live very comfortably, and they honestly don't feel like sacrifices because it's been how we live since we got out of college. I would like to get an ATV someday... maybe when the boys have gone to college and the house is paid off.... a couple of decades from now haha.