So, over the past few months, I started looking at homes to potentially relocate and retire to in a couple years. Coincidentally, I also have a family member traveling to Ecuador in a few weeks. I began searching YouTube for Ecuador travel videos, and the search results return videos that sell real estate, presumably to folks from foreign countries (i.e., expats) looking to relocate to Ecuador.
I came across several homes in Ecuador that are amazing values compared to U.S.-based homes. Of course, folks will say it's all about location. However, let's set location aside and focus just on the material and labor costs of these homes. Something doesn't add up. In the examples below, I'll compare a 971 sq. ft., 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath home on a 5,227 sq. ft. lot located in North Carolina for $338,000 to a modern home in Ecuador. Honestly, the NC home basically looks like a shed. If someone told me that they purchased it as a kit from the local hardware store, I'd believe them.
Now, compare it to the five bedroom, six bath, two-story, mostly brick and glass home located on a very nice lot in a beautiful setting with gorgeous views in Ecuador for $275,000. Each bedroom has a private bath and access to a patio or balcony. There is at least one brick fireplace, and a very nice outdoor cooking area. Granite countertops in the kitchen and what appears to be marble tile in the bathrooms. A Covered car port is integrated into the design. The property includes about a dozen various types of citrus trees and more banana trees with an irrigation system to keep them healthy. The list of features goes on.
Obviously, the biggest difference might be the cost of labor. But, how many man-hours of labor could it take to build the NC house-shed compared to the brick and glass home in Ecuador? Even if the labor is cheaper, I gotta believe there is a heck of a lot more hours of labor and craftsmanship required to build the Ecuador home to balance out the cost difference. The cost of materials used to build the house in Ecuador has to dwarf the cost to build the house-shed in NC.
Furthermore, Ecuador's official currency is the U.S. dollar, for whatever that is worth.
Again, just comparing the cost to build these two homes and ignoring the location, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on with home prices in the U.S.? I suspect there is something rotten going on in our economy, and it's probably connected to all the other BS. There is no shortage of (or doesn't need to be) oil, gas, chicken, beef, steel, lumber, electricity, etc., yet these necessities are becoming less and less affordable for the average hard-working American. Now, you can lump basic housing into the mix of unaffordable items. Something tells me there are folks who don't want us to have these things, and so they are artificially being priced out of the reach of most Americans. By now, we've all probably heard the saying "you will own nothing and be happy." I think the way this is being accomplished right under our noses is by making it nearly impossible for anyone to own anything because of cost.
I'm sure some Campfire Capitalists will come along shortly to tell me that I'm just a broke-dick moron who is too dumb to understand economics and too lazy to afford things. That may or may not be the case. Regardless, if this keeps up, we are lost....
Please explain this to me in a way that passes the laugh test.
I'm sure some Campfire Capitalists will come along shortly to tell me that I'm just a broke-dick moron who is too dumb to understand economics and too lazy to afford things. That may or may not be the case. Regardless, if this keeps up, we are lost....
Please explain this to me in a way that passes the laugh test.
No, but you may be naive. Leave that house for 2 hours and it'll be stripped bare.
As you mentioned, it's all about location...location...location. There are areas of Raleigh, NC that used to be on "the edge of town" where shacks like you mentioned exist but sell for sometimes close to a million because they are in the growing, what's happening part of town. Same thing with older dilapidated houses inside the Raleigh beltline. Houses are cheaper in Ecuador because...it's Ecuador.
Several things contribute to the cost of construction in this country. Labor being a major expense. Compliance with building codes and government regulation is another which affects not only the project itself but every manufacturer and supplier that provides materials for the job.
I knew a woman whose father lived in Costa Rica and he died. She said she could not leave his home unoccupied because squatters have legal rights in that country and could move into his home and acquire title to the property. So yes location is a factor.
This is not to say we are not being manipulated. There is no secret the goal is for you to own nothing. Being happy is a state of mind.
I've traveled to Ecuador it's nice but it's been under a lot of political turmoil the past few years. That being said it's got to be safer than Detroit or Chicago. When ever I plan on traveling to a different country I hop on Facebook to see if there is a expat group for that country. It provides a wealth of information
No offense, but so far every reply has tried to explain this vast discrepancy only by location. Leaving location aside, how can the beautiful Ecuadorian home be built and sold for $275K and the NC house-shed be built on a miniscule piece of land and sold for $338K? Again, LEAVING LOCATION ASIDE, the materials and craftsmanship in the less expensive home are far more abundant and superior to the NC house. This would be like being OK with Toyota selling Land Cruisers in Ecuador for $20,000 and selling Toyota Corollas in the U.S. for $50,000. Then, having Toyota explain it by saying well, they are two different locations, so sit down and shut up. No, I am talking about the materials and production (i.e., labor) costs only.
It doesn't add up. I think we have been brainwashed to believe that a modest house in the U.S. built using among the least expensive construction methods and materials needs to cost nearly a half million dollars.
A few years ago when I started thinking about retiring, I never imagined I would need to spend nearly a half million dollars to buy a modest 3 bedroom, 2 bath ranch home on a quiet street.
Something stinks, and it's about time we figure it out. The American dream is lost for future generations, and it's happening by design.
If freedom is what you want, buy some acreage in the US, a chitty farm gate at the entrance and the biggest Airstream you can afford to beat the fuggin tax man.
My wife and I sponsor a young girl in Ecuador through Compassion. According to Compassion and our sponsored girl, it's not safe down there now. The government is unstable.
Why can't anyone here focus on construction and materials costs? This isn't a question of crime rates or political unrest.
Americans are taking it up the azz, and folks here are brainwashed into thinking it's all innocently justifiable through their righteous devotion to "capitalism."
When your dollar is worth about 75% of what it was a few years ago, that ain't capitalism. And, when the government seizes another 25% or more of your income while running multi-trillion dollar annual deficits, that ain't capitalism. And, if you believe the official inflation data, I have a home to sell to you in Ecuador. If official inflation numbers were calculated the same way they were in 1980, last year's 7%-8% CPI rate would've been closer to 20%. How convenient that the government changed its official methodology used to calculate inflation by messing with things such as substitution and hedonic adjustments, and these changes just coincidentally make inflation numbers lower.
If you think the news is fake, wait until you find out what "they" have you believing about the economy.
I'm all for capitalism as much as anyone here, but what we have got now in this country ain't capitalism. Folks need to wake up.
Why can't anyone here focus on construction and materials costs? This isn't a question of crime rates or political unrest.
Americans are taking it up the azz, and folks here are brainwashed into thinking it's all innocently justifiable through their righteous devotion to "capitalism."
When your dollar is worth about 75% of what it was a few years ago, that ain't capitalism. And, when the government seizes another 25% or more of your income while running multi-trillion dollar annual deficits, that ain't capitalism. And, if you believe the official inflation data, I have a home to sell to you in Ecuador. If official inflation numbers were calculated the same way they were in 1980, last year's 7%-8% CPI rate would've been closer to 20%. How convenient that the government changed its official methodology used to calculate inflation by messing with things such as substitution and hedonic adjustments, and these changes just coincidentally make inflation numbers lower.
If you think the news is fake, wait until you find out what "they" have you believing about the economy.
I'm all for capitalism as much as anyone here, but what we have got now in this country ain't capitalism. Folks need to wake up.
You make some good points. Things are ridiculously expensive here in the United States and only getting worse.
Land costs, based on location, is among the largest variables in building. You failed to mention that. You also seem to want to define capitalism through inflation. I'm no economist but you're going to need to explain that to me.
Here is a simple definition of Capitalism. "Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society. The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit." Inflation happens in every economic system. Like you, I don't like inflation and how it has diminished the value of the dollar but you can't blame that on Capitalism.
Supply and demand. Take that $338k house and plop it in downtown Asheville and it'll cost you more than twice that. Put it in downtown Breckenridge CO or on the beach in CA, and it'll be 4X.
Land costs, based on location, is among the largest variables in building. You failed to mention that. You also seem to want to define capitalism through inflation. I'm no economist but you're going to need to explain that to me.
Here is a simple definition of Capitalism. "Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society. The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit." Inflation happens in every economic system. Like you, I don't like inflation and how it has diminished the value of the dollar but you can't blame that on Capitalism.
How can you say I failed to mention location? I used the word "location" multiple times, but this post is not about location. That's my whole point. It's about the ridiculous prices of housing and construction costs in the U.S. no matter the location. Land costs? It's a frickin' 5,200 sq. ft. lot in NC! I would bet the materials used to build that house in Ecuador would cost more than the $275k asking price in the U.S. without even bringing location into the equation.
Do you truly believe the part I bolded in your quote exists today in America?
Capitalism, in its most basic form, is all about supply and demand.
I respectfully submit:
There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of land. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of fossil fuel. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of electric energy. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of lumber. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of bricks, concrete and cement. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of steel. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of beef. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of chicken. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of eggs. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of grain. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of milk. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of medicine. Etc. Etc. Etc.
To the extent that these and other necessities are in short supply, it is not because of capitalism. It's fake. It is because the azzholes running the world are making it so. It's for us to figure out who they are, what they are doing and how to stop them.
Why can't anyone here focus on construction and materials costs? This isn't a question of crime rates or political unrest.
Americans are taking it up the azz, and folks here are brainwashed into thinking it's all innocently justifiable through their righteous devotion to "capitalism."
When your dollar is worth about 75% of what it was a few years ago, that ain't capitalism. And, when the government seizes another 25% or more of your income while running multi-trillion dollar annual deficits, that ain't capitalism. And, if you believe the official inflation data, I have a home to sell to you in Ecuador. If official inflation numbers were calculated the same way they were in 1980, last year's 7%-8% CPI rate would've been closer to 20%. How convenient that the government changed its official methodology used to calculate inflation by messing with things such as substitution and hedonic adjustments, and these changes just coincidentally make inflation numbers lower.
If you think the news is fake, wait until you find out what "they" have you believing about the economy.
I'm all for capitalism as much as anyone here, but what we have got now in this country ain't capitalism. Folks need to wake up.
Dumbass jetboi should read posts like this, but he's too self absorbed while licking FJB's ass crack.
The beaches and beach goers are spectacular but you better drink outta a bottle. I got so sick there once I had to be flown to Gorgas Army Hospital in Panama in an OA-37, was the Ceviche I think.
At the base in Manta, the toilets were bolted to concrete with no fuggin plumbing and the slaves scooped the chit out with a cup.
OK, the lot the crap house in NC sits on, sells for $200k
Materials and labor and permits and enhancements to infrastructure etc... equate to $138K
Ecuador lot = $20k
Materials and labor = $254900. Permits = $100 or something trivial like that.
So, despite all your bitching and moaning about how we're not looking at materials and labor, and are focusing on location, location, location - well, it all boils down to just that: location.
OK, the lot the crap house in NC sits on, sells for $200k
But, it's not just that lot in small-town western NC selling for $200k. It's almost everywhere in the country, and there is no REAL scarcity of land or construction materials that would be driving those costs in a REAL capitalist society. It's a fake, perverted economy that has been orchestrated and foisted onto the world.
I find it hard to believe that folks are OK with the fact that a 971 sq. ft. poorly built shed-house sitting on a 5,200 sq. ft. lot costs more than a third of a million dollars, and everyone is fine with it so long as they're convinced that it's just how capitalism works. Why can't you build a house that is similar to the home in Ecuador for your same money here, with maybe some additional labor costs? It's not, or it shouldn't be, the cost of materials. I doubt lumber and concrete and copper and polished granite and glass and tools are in any shorter supply in the U.S. than they are in a near-third world country. There is much more available land here, too.
Never mind that a significant percentage of single-family homes are being purchased by Wall Street investors so that these homes can then be rented to people who can't afford to buy them because they are competing with Wall Street investors from who knows where or what countries and probably using interest-free money they receive from the corrupt federal government through phony housing tax credits while the private individual is expected to pay in full plus an 8% usury fee, um, I mean mortgage.
I must say, up until I made this post, I would've felt like a total dumbazz for paying 1/3 million dollars to purchase a 971 sq. ft. shed-house in a no-name town sitting on top of a 5,200 sq. ft. lot without even a basement. I can't wait until a Booger King value meal costs me $50, then I'll know for sure that the 'Fire's version of capitalism is working.
But, I'm so glad I made my original post. I now realize what an idiot I am for questioning the "official" narrative about the cost of living in the U.S. and the fact that soon nobody will be able to afford a home. [bleep] our children. Let those poor, greedy little bastards figure it out. Let them eat cake....
Soon, no one will be able to afford even a modest home. Soon after, nobody will be able to afford a privately owned vehicle or the fuel to operate it. Then, no one will be able to afford clean, healthy food such as beef, chicken, fresh fruits and vegetables, eggs and milk, but I hear ground cricket flour tastes like chicken. Certainly electricity on-demand will be reserved only for the wealthy. And, this totalitarianism will all be accomplished under the guise of capitalism, so it'll be fine, and we can rest easy. Of course, our "capitalist" masters won't be giving up any of these things.
Well yeah, to an extent we are all being played. The market sets a value that is really not based on anything other than what someone is willing to pay at the time. Here in Arkansas there are areas where you can buy at $75/sqft and other areas you can't find a decent house below $175/sqft. Same land, same house, just different area. Demand today doesn't equal demand tomorrow. Prices might be good or bad, but who knows.
OK, the lot the crap house in NC sits on, sells for $200k
But, it's not just that lot in small-town western NC selling for $200k. It's almost everywhere in the country, and there is no REAL scarcity of land or construction materials that would be driving those costs in a REAL capitalist society. It's a fake, perverted economy that has been orchestrated and foisted onto the world.
I find it hard to believe that folks are OK with the fact that a 971 sq. ft. poorly built shed-house sitting on a 5,200 sq. ft. lot costs more than a third of a million dollars, and everyone is fine with it so long as they're convinced that it's just how capitalism works. Why can't you build a house that is similar to the home in Ecuador for your same money here, with maybe some additional labor costs? It's not, or it shouldn't be, the cost of materials. I doubt lumber and concrete and copper and polished granite and glass and tools are in any shorter supply in the U.S. than they are in a near-third world country. There is much more available land here, too.
Are you aware of land that is not owned privately and is available for construction of a private residence?
No?
That right there - that is scarcity. The supply is finite.
Since Hilljee is on speed and I have him on ignore while he's a member of the Dumbassed Junkyard Dawg Crew I'll have to guess he told us our beloved fake nues MSM wouldn't cover the truth up.
If he didn't say it then he should have as that's who he believes.
Supply and demand. That house in NC will be under contract next week. The one in Ecuador will be available whoever you decide you want it. Bob the builder can afford to pay more for the materials than Juan. Lowe’s knows this and charges accordingly.
So why doesn’t Bob the builder simply go buy his building materials in Ecuador? Import duties and shipping costs make it not a worthwhile endeavor.
the cost of government regulations, OSHA compliance, minimum wage, impact fees, permit fees, DEI employees............there are myriad things that drive costs in America that may not be at play in a third world country. A lot of government regulations also drive the cost of the materials.
First, you can't just declare that you don't want to hear about location as a factor in cost when you're talking about houses in two different countries. It's the primary factor. For example, what is the median income in Ecuador vs North Carolina?
Second, what is the difference in building codes? Presumably, the shed in North Carolina isn't likely to burn down due to shoddy wiring, nor is it going to collapse due to a poor foundation. Who built the mansion in Ecuador? Did they use quality material and techniques? Do you know? Can you find out?
But applying some common sense- if everything were equal except housing prices (standard of living, crime rates, personal liberty, etc) don't you think everyone would be trying to move to Ecuador? Or do you really think it's a well-kept secret that only you and the guy on you tube know about?
Land costs, based on location, is among the largest variables in building. You failed to mention that. You also seem to want to define capitalism through inflation. I'm no economist but you're going to need to explain that to me.
Here is a simple definition of Capitalism. "Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society. The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit." Inflation happens in every economic system. Like you, I don't like inflation and how it has diminished the value of the dollar but you can't blame that on Capitalism.
How can you say I failed to mention location? I used the word "location" multiple times, but this post is not about location. That's my whole point. It's about the ridiculous prices of housing and construction costs in the U.S. no matter the location. Land costs? It's a frickin' 5,200 sq. ft. lot in NC! I would bet the materials used to build that house in Ecuador would cost more than the $275k asking price in the U.S. without even bringing location into the equation.
Do you truly believe the part I bolded in your quote exists today in America?
Capitalism, in its most basic form, is all about supply and demand.
I respectfully submit:
There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of land. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of fossil fuel. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of electric energy. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of lumber. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of bricks, concrete and cement. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of steel. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of beef. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of chicken. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of eggs. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of grain. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of milk. There is not, or doesn't need to be, a REAL shortage of medicine. Etc. Etc. Etc.
To the extent that these and other necessities are in short supply, it is not because of capitalism. It's fake. It is because the azzholes running the world are making it so. It's for us to figure out who they are, what they are doing and how to stop them.
We are being played.
I think we're done here. Good luck in Ecuador. I'm out.
...I now realize what an idiot I am for questioning the "official" narrative about the cost of living in the U.S...
No. You're an idiot for asking for help to understand something, and then refusing to accept the truth, even when it is presented to you in black and white. You insist on comparing a particular, overpriced, ugly shack to some "dream house" half a world away.
It's a market. There is demand and supply. Apparently the markets you reference feel the demand justifies the price. If not the homebuilder (or sellor) will lose out. Alternatively, the buyer may lose out.
Did not read this entire thread, but saw a lot of mentioning of the capital system and its perceived failures today but none of the key to capitalism operation that being FREE ENTERPRISE. Free enterprise is being destroyed in America through gov’t regulation, unionism, cronyism, graft, featherbedding, and disqualification of competitive bidding. This is not an accidental occurrence either, when one reads the goals and methodology of the new world order (the great reset) promulgated by the world economic forum and United Nations it becomes clear , this is just part and partial of the plan to destroy all individual freedoms and create a dark ages style modern serfdom. A serfdom where you will own nothing, owe your entire existence to the state and by the way you will be happy.
I wasn't expecting much, but I thought for sure there would be at least a few folks who could see past the Ecuador/NC example to at least get a glimpse of the bigger picture regarding the state of our current economic system. Most people today wouldn't know free-market capitalism if it punched them in the face. What we have left of free-market capitalism soon won't be able to withstand the onslaught of transgressions it faces in today's world without help from someone or somewhere.
Free-market capitalism revolves around concepts such as scarcity of supply, consumer demand, profit motive and competition. What is currently happening in our economy reflects less and less of that each passing day. Instead we have a system orchestrated by an organized crime ring comprised of the federal government and a corporate Borg. There are a lot of folks who are convinced the federal government is corrupt, that the media is a propaganda machine, that Big Medicine trades off people's sickness instead of health, and that Big Agra and Big Food plies our food supply with toxic seed oils, GMO grains and addictive sugars such as HFCS. But God-forbid if you imply to these same people that what they think is a capitalist economy has been similarly undermined. Well, that's just a bridge too far, dammit!
Someone created a computer program recently to place multiple colored squares onto a square sheet of white paper, where each individual color represents ownership of a particular company. When the simulation is run through the program over and over, what you get is one giant black piece of paper, with a tiny white square representing individual stock ownership. The giant black blob is a corporate hivemind of most all large companies owning each other and the corresponding means of production. Black Rock owns Home Depot, State Street owns Lowes, Black Rock owns State Street, Vanguard owns Berkshire Hathaway, Berkshire Hathaway owns the mortgage lenders and maybe owns or "competes" against your local real estate brokerage. Etc., etc. And regardless of how many individual investors might own shares in these companies, they have no real input or control over how they operate. The incestuous corporate boards handle that.
Presently, on a level playing field (i.e., free-market economy), energy powered by fossil fuels and maybe fission beats the competition nearly every time, in all facets of the game. So why are expensive solar and wind and "clean" hydrogen and electric vehicles and the rationing of energy being shoved down our throats? Well, the government sees an attractive new playing field where it can set new rules in its favor and create more opportunity for its latest players. The corporate hivemind plays along and joins the fun. Why should they care? They own the oil companies and the solar companies and the wind companies and the electric companies and the car companies. They're in a win/win situation and pay the referees handsomely, and the rules of the game are rigged to ensure things stay that way.
News flash. This is not free-market capitalism. This is corporatist totalitarianism masquerading as capitalism.
I wasn't expecting much, but I thought for sure there would be at least a few folks who could see past the Ecuador/NC example to at least get a glimpse of the bigger picture regarding the state of our current economic system. Most people today wouldn't know free-market capitalism if it punched them in the face. What we have left of free-market capitalism soon won't be able to withstand the onslaught of transgressions it faces in today's world without help from someone or somewhere.
Free-market capitalism revolves around concepts such as scarcity of supply, consumer demand, profit motive and competition. What is currently happening in our economy reflects less and less of that each passing day. Instead we have a system orchestrated by an organized crime ring comprised of the federal government and a corporate Borg. There are a lot of folks who are convinced the federal government is corrupt, that the media is a propaganda machine, that Big Medicine trades off people's sickness instead of health, and that Big Agra and Big Food plies our food supply with toxic seed oils, GMO grains and addictive sugars such as HFCS. But God-forbid if you imply to these same people that what they think is a capitalist economy has been similarly undermined. Well, that's just a bridge too far, dammit!
Someone created a computer program recently to place multiple colored squares onto a square sheet of white paper, where each individual color represents ownership of a particular company. When the simulation is run through the program over and over, what you get is one giant black piece of paper, with a tiny white square representing individual stock ownership. The giant black blob is a corporate hivemind of most all large companies owning each other and the corresponding means of production. Black Rock owns Home Depot, State Street owns Lowes, Black Rock owns State Street, Vanguard owns Berkshire Hathaway, Berkshire Hathaway owns the mortgage lenders and maybe owns or "competes" against your local real estate brokerage. Etc., etc. And regardless of how many individual investors might own shares in these companies, they have no real input or control over how they operate. The incestuous corporate boards handle that.
Presently, on a level playing field (i.e., free-market economy), energy powered by fossil fuels and maybe fission beats the competition nearly every time, in all facets of the game. So why are expensive solar and wind and "clean" hydrogen and electric vehicles and the rationing of energy being shoved down our throats? Well, the government sees an attractive new playing field where it can set new rules in its favor and create more opportunity for its latest players. The corporate hivemind plays along and joins the fun. Why should they care? They own the oil companies and the solar companies and the wind companies and the electric companies and the car companies. They're in a win/win situation and pay the referees handsomely, and the rules of the game are rigged to ensure things stay that way.
News flash. This is not free-market capitalism. This is corporatist totalitarianism masquerading as capitalism.
None of this has anything to do with the housing market..
Well put coalcracker. And the heads of all those huge intertwined multinational corps get together at Davos Sw. ever year with leaders from all the other interests of the human endeavors to debate how best to hoist their draconian plans on the worlds population.
Ad hominem attack. Is that all you got while you age out and leave the country a mess?
Good talk.
Well, Mr. Smarter Than Everyone Else, what do your plans include to do about it?
Be specific.
For a guy who has such disdain for the opinions of Campfire members, even with your first post in this thread at the bottom of it... You sure start a lot of threads asking everyone's opinion about this and that.
Seeing the way you respond to the truth mentioned by many in this thread, I have to declare you got one thing right for sure...
You were correct in that I now consider you a "broke-dick moron" as you put it, and predicted.
Have a nice day invoking the argument and attention you so badly crave.
Ad hominem attack. Is that all you got while you age out and leave the country a mess?
Good talk.
Well, Mr. Smarter Than Everyone Else, what do your plans include to do about it?
Be specific.
For a guy who has such disdain for the opinions of Campfire members, even with your first post in this thread at the bottom of it... You sure start a lot of threads asking everyone's opinion about this and that.
Seeing the way you respond to the truth mentioned by many in this thread, I have to declare you got one thing right for sure...
You were correct in that I now consider you a "broke-dick moron" as you put it, and predicted.
Have a nice day invoking the argument and attention you so badly crave.
I know you will find this hard to believe, but you and I and most members here have waaaay more in common than you would think.
To answer your question, what I am trying to do about it is to raise the issue as much as possible in my personal and professional life and to try to set an example for my kids and other folks to take notice to what is happening to our country. I know it's not much, but if you're expecting me to say that I'm gonna run out and single-handedly take down the Death Star, well, I'm going to disappoint you. But, recognizing that there is a problem is typically the first step toward recovery. And, if the good people here think everything is just fine with the way things are, then what chance is there to convince others?
The disdain you pointed out comes from experience here. Every time a member gets off the reservation and even hints that there is something amiss with our current economic system, the capitalist cowboys come charging in to proclaim how wonderful free-market capitalism is, and I agree. Where I don't agree is with the notion that we currently have anything even remotely close to a free market system in this country, and it is getting worse by the day.
Being that I have +/- 1,000 posts in nearly 15 years of membership here, I'm not sure I agree that I "start a lot of threads..." about much of anything. But yeah, to the extent I ask about this or that (almost never related to politics), I enjoy hearing the opinions of others who might have more experience or insight into things I'm interested in at the moment. I don't recall ever impugning the character of anyone here, though, even if I disagreed with them.
And, who do you think increasingly controls all the economic resources necessary to have a housing market? And, who sets the rules as to how those resources can be used? Do you think it is you and me as individual buyers and sellers?
In a sub tropical environment where termites eat anything wood, and heat and humidity rust and corrode anything metallic. Maybe there is a difference in building materials and construction techniques? Last time I was in El Salvador, use of Asbestos is still common. It doesn't rust. Termites won't eat it. And people there don't generally live to be old enough for the affects of asbestosis to manifest. Nicer homes are typically built with poured concrete walls. Where the doors and windows are when the concrete is poured is where they are going to be. Where your outlets and lights switches are located when you pour the concrete is where they are going to be. Same for waterlines and fixtures. The importance of the enclosed car port is to ensure your car is still here in the morning. And don't forget living quarters for the security guy who guards/patrols the property at night. Remember to check if the perimeter wall has an adequate quantity of broken glass set in concrete along the top. Or at least have Mother In Law tongue woven into the barbed wire perimeter fencing. And at least one perro bravo in case the security guy falls asleep.
Almost forgot, does the property have an elevated water reservoir on stilts to gravity feed water during those periods (hours? days? weeks?) when the municipal water supply does not work? Also, a backup gen set for the regularly occurring power outages? Not if... When...
In a sub tropical environment where termites eat anything wood, and heat and humidity rust and corrode anything metallic. Maybe there is a difference in building materials and construction techniques? Last time I was in El Salvador, use of Asbestos is still common. It doesn't rust. Termites won't eat it. And people there don't generally live to be old enough for the affects of asbestosis to manifest. Nicer homes are typically built with poured concrete walls. Where the doors and windows are when the concrete is poured is where they are going to be. Where your outlets and lights switches are located when you pour the concrete is where they are going to be. Same for waterlines and fixtures. The importance of the enclosed car port is to ensure your car is still here in the morning. And don't forget living quarters for the security guy who guards/patrols the property at night. Remember to check if the perimeter wall has an adequate quantity of broken glass set in concrete along the top. Or at least have Mother In Law tongue woven into the barbed wire perimeter fencing. And at least one perro bravo in case the security guy falls asleep.
Almost forgot, does the property have an elevated water reservoir on stilts to gravity feed water during those periods (hours? days? weeks?) when the municipal water supply does not work? Also, a backup gen set for the regularly occurring power outages? Not if... When...
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but my larger point was not necessarily about comparing these two exact houses. I was trying to point out that a 971 sq.ft. house should not ,and doesn't need to cost more than a 1/3 million dollars in this country. I contend that if we lived in a freer-market capitalist economy, it would not. I used the Ecuador house example just as a way to try to show that there is no "concrete" reason why it needs to cost that much. We should expect a higher standard of living (including shelter) in this country than those in Ecuador, not less. The reason it costs that much is because of the market, and I fully understand that, but I contend that our economic system has been undermined to the detriment of the American people.
I'll try one other example. Let's say that Private Equity eventually owns and controls most all production of ammo, primers, powder and firearms in the U.S., including the natural resources and transportation systems necessary to move those resources. In other words, total top-to-bottom control. Then let's say for reasons other than a true scarcity of the resources needed to manufacture these items, the prices begin to increase well beyond the reach of most Americans. Let's also say that the federal government steps in and puts rules in place that benefit Private Equity arms manufacturers exclusively and to the detriment of small companies being able to compete, and so they eventually disappear. Do you see where I'm going?
Would it be reasonable for us to suspect that something isn't right in this scenario, or should we just chalk it up to the good ol' free market at work? Is it worth considering whether the government and the corporate hivemind would be doing these things to control people by limiting their access to a means to defend themselves and their country?
My guess is that a lot of good people would rightfully see right through this charade. But when it comes to things such as housing, food, energy, mobility and medicine, they're not willing to take that next step. I contend that controlling things such as housing, mobility, food and energy is at least as an effective method to control a population as controlling access to firearms.
What happens when our kids must pay 1/2 million dollars for a tiny house? What happens when our grandkids must pay $1 million for a by-then decrepit tiny house simply because it is sitting on top of a tiny lot in small-town NC, or any other decent small town in the U.S.? I refuse to believe such a possible scenario can be explained simply by the "free-market" at work. YMMV.
You can still buy houses for below the cost of building (including land) in some parts of the U.S. Unless you have liquid assets, do you think that an ordinary person can obtain financing for a property in Ecuador.
Finally, assuming you had the money, how would a person pay for that house, wire money to some dude in Ecuador?
People used to build their own homes to save that part of the cost. Not so many people are able or willing to do that now so they are at the mercy of the builder and the lumber yard. The folks that sell lumber want the builders to stay busy and the builders want to be able to buy what they need and depend on getting it. Time is everything to many people. Around our area it's tough just getting put on a list to hire a contractor so they really have most of the balls in their court. You are not in a position to bargain. When I turned 31 after getting divorced I bought 31 acres in a rural area and built my own modest home. Still here. I'm shocked at how prices have went up but most new home owners I know are not. To them it's just part of their life. Location is important but so is perspective.
Ecuador is a very beautiful country beaches and rainforest unfortunately like most countries and exploit the people it should be a very prosperous country. Fortunately a few of the countries are starting to wake up like Argentina and El Salvador. Most of the people are nice and hospitable. Although for South American standards the woman of Ecuador are definitely not the most attractive
Those who have wasted their time responding to the drivel this attention whore Cracker has posted are being played.
Truth.
But attention whoring is probably a less sinister motive than what I suspect.
You guys crack me up!
I’m just some random dude sitting on his couch watching YouTube travel videos and who also happens to be considering moving to a new home in a few years.
So, having looked at some overly expensive homes in NC, I scratch my head and wonder how can such a beautiful home in another country be built and sold at that price when in the U.S. the same home would probably cost 10x that amount. And then I come up with a few theories and raise the issue here to test those theories, mostly out of boredom.
Now I find out something very “sinister” is at play. So sinister, in fact, that even I don’t know what it is, lol.
Those who have wasted their time responding to the drivel this attention whore Cracker has posted are being played.
Truth.
But attention whoring is probably a less sinister motive than what I suspect.
You guys crack me up!
I’m just some random dude sitting on his couch watching YouTube travel videos and who also happens to be considering moving to a new home in a few years.
So, having looked at some overly expensive homes in NC, I scratch my head and wonder how can such a beautiful home in another country be built and sold at that price when in the U.S. the same home would probably cost 10x that amount. And then I come up with a few theories and raise the issue here to test those theories, mostly out of boredom.
Now I find out something very “sinister” is at play. So sinister, in fact, that even I don’t know what it is, lol.
Tell me Columbo, what is your theory, lol?
Go outside and take a walk. Get some fresh air.
Been outside where the air is fresh. Also been in the barn a good bit, cleaning up after the grass eaters, where the air isn't fresh.
I took a look at your post history. And decided you're not a plant. Just a hard headed whiner.
Worried about your kids being able to get a home, well help them the [bleep] out. Like I am. Like most sensible people do.
Those who have wasted their time responding to the drivel this attention whore Cracker has posted are being played.
Truth.
But attention whoring is probably a less sinister motive than what I suspect.
You guys crack me up!
I’m just some random dude sitting on his couch watching YouTube travel videos and who also happens to be considering moving to a new home in a few years.
So, having looked at some overly expensive homes in NC, I scratch my head and wonder how can such a beautiful home in another country be built and sold at that price when in the U.S. the same home would probably cost 10x that amount. And then I come up with a few theories and raise the issue here to test those theories, mostly out of boredom.
Now I find out something very “sinister” is at play. So sinister, in fact, that even I don’t know what it is, lol.
Tell me Columbo, what is your theory, lol?
Go outside and take a walk. Get some fresh air.
Been outside where the air is fresh. Also been in the barn a good bit, cleaning up after the grass eaters, where the air isn't fresh.
I took a look at your post history. And decided you're not a plant. Just a hard headed whiner.
Worried about your kids being able to get a home, well help them the [bleep] out. Like I am. Like most sensible people do.
Been outside where the air is fresh. Also been in the barn a good bit, cleaning up after the grass eaters, where the air isn't fresh.
I took a look at your post history. And decided you're not a plant. Just a hard headed whiner.
Worried about your kids being able to get a home, well help them the [bleep] out. Like I am. Like most sensible people do.
I'm now off to go fishing.
Honestly, I'm glad to see that you're starting to warm up to me. I do grow on people, and I mean no harm.
I've been called a lot worse things than a hard headed whiner, and I can live with that. But honestly, if hard headed whiners weren't allowed to post in the Hunter's Campfire forum, I think Rick would have to close it up for lack of activity, lol.
My wife and I are blessed to have great kids, and we help them out as much as possible. Once we are set up into retirement in a couple years, we will take stock of where we are financially and do what we can to hopefully help them even more. They've always been responsible, hard-working (not hard headed like the old man, lol) kids, and I know they appreciate it and make the most of it.
Well, it it easy to find a quarter-acre lot in one location that costs more than a 4,000 square foot house on a quarter-acre, in another location.
So saying you want to leave out location makes me wonder how many houses/lots you have purchased in your life.
You cannot leave out location. It is the single most important thing.
I'm gonna take one last run at this. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I am beginning to sense a vibe that I'm soon going to wear out my welcome on this topic, or in general, lol.
Let's try to factor out the all-important location variable this way. Let's say I already own a fully paid-for lot located in the U.S. that is perfectly suitable for building the home in question. And, I decide I want to build the exact same house as the one I mentioned previously (I'm not gonna name the country this time lest more folks once again feel the need to explain to me the stark differences between living in the U.S. and the no-name country).
With the (obviously) little I know about home construction, I would argue that I couldn't even procure the materials to build the house in the U.S. for what the completed home on a nice, landscaped lot costs in the no-name country. I understand labor costs will be higher, so I'm focusing just on materials for the moment. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if the hypothetical U.S. construction crew had some of the same employees that worked on the house in the no-name country and happened to migrate north recently, lol. I can understand some variability in materials costs between different locations, but things seem to be getting out of hand lately. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I can understand if a Toyota truck cost more money in the U.S. than some other country. But, I wouldn't be able to understand if that same truck cost 10x as much in the U.S. than in some other country. If that were the case, I'd be awfully suspicious, and I would conclude that the U.S auto market is failing its consumers.
Let's just say I am skeptical about what's going on in this country, not just socially and politically, but economically as well. And just as Mr. Thornley put it in a previous post, I suspect something more "sinister" is at play. Something is rotten in Denmark (I had to name at least one other foreign country by name, lol).
You don't know what it cost to build the house in that other country. There are examples of real estate in this country selling for much less than replacement cost. Without more information, your conclusions are pretty much worthless.
Manipulating a large market for any length of time is difficult, about impossible for anyone but the government and, in that case, generally accompanied by unintended consequences. IMO, the cost of housing (and building materials) is still mostly a supply and demand market. No doubt the government has increased the cost to play, but take away dual income families and a hundred and fifty million people and housing prices would be very different. my .02, dvnv
I wasn't expecting much, but I thought for sure there would be at least a few folks who could see past the Ecuador/NC example to at least get a glimpse of the bigger picture regarding the state of our current economic system. Most people today wouldn't know free-market capitalism if it punched them in the face. What we have left of free-market capitalism soon won't be able to withstand the onslaught of transgressions it faces in today's world without help from someone or somewhere.
Free-market capitalism revolves around concepts such as scarcity of supply, consumer demand, profit motive and competition. What is currently happening in our economy reflects less and less of that each passing day. Instead we have a system orchestrated by an organized crime ring comprised of the federal government and a corporate Borg. There are a lot of folks who are convinced the federal government is corrupt, that the media is a propaganda machine, that Big Medicine trades off people's sickness instead of health, and that Big Agra and Big Food plies our food supply with toxic seed oils, GMO grains and addictive sugars such as HFCS. But God-forbid if you imply to these same people that what they think is a capitalist economy has been similarly undermined. Well, that's just a bridge too far, dammit!
Someone created a computer program recently to place multiple colored squares onto a square sheet of white paper, where each individual color represents ownership of a particular company. When the simulation is run through the program over and over, what you get is one giant black piece of paper, with a tiny white square representing individual stock ownership. The giant black blob is a corporate hivemind of most all large companies owning each other and the corresponding means of production. Black Rock owns Home Depot, State Street owns Lowes, Black Rock owns State Street, Vanguard owns Berkshire Hathaway, Berkshire Hathaway owns the mortgage lenders and maybe owns or "competes" against your local real estate brokerage. Etc., etc. And regardless of how many individual investors might own shares in these companies, they have no real input or control over how they operate. The incestuous corporate boards handle that.
Presently, on a level playing field (i.e., free-market economy), energy powered by fossil fuels and maybe fission beats the competition nearly every time, in all facets of the game. So why are expensive solar and wind and "clean" hydrogen and electric vehicles and the rationing of energy being shoved down our throats? Well, the government sees an attractive new playing field where it can set new rules in its favor and create more opportunity for its latest players. The corporate hivemind plays along and joins the fun. Why should they care? They own the oil companies and the solar companies and the wind companies and the electric companies and the car companies. They're in a win/win situation and pay the referees handsomely, and the rules of the game are rigged to ensure things stay that way.
News flash. This is not free-market capitalism. This is corporatist totalitarianism masquerading as capitalism.
Actually, it is a ticking time bomb of scripted dances by hyper-enemies, cooperating just long enough to make you believe in their version of "democracy". If they succeed in painting that picture to enough "believers" (remember the Red Guard?), we are in for a long, ugly period.
It's goal is to eventually and surely eat you, yours, each other, and anything else that stands in its path for total control.
I'm not a huge Q guy, but as jag says, we are being shown the light (and great evil). It's up to us what we do about it.
If darkness (evil) prevails, Mao's Cultural Revolution, relocation and famine will look like a fraternity party.
We been played (brainwashed) into thinking we still have a Republic, a Govt that protects us and works for us, real money, a real CDC, Big Pharma and Big Business which care for us, an honest AMA and FDA, we need our Govt to protect us from Putin, Israel is our closest ally, the FBI AND CYA work to protect us, Wall Street isn't rigged and run up and down to enrich the Cabal, the MSM is on our side, etc.
We've been played into thinking we are free and elect our leaders, while all the time we are slaves the Puppetmasters bleed dry with illegal, unconstitutional fiat currency.
And we were played into thinking our DOD wasn't using our money to run 46 Internationally Illegal Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine and that we need to save Ukraine and Taiwan for the satanic Globalist Cabal illuminated ones.
Ecuador is a very beautiful country beaches and rainforest unfortunately like most countries and exploit the people it should be a very prosperous country. Fortunately a few of the countries are starting to wake up like Argentina and El Salvador. Most of the people are nice and hospitable. Although for South American standards the woman of Ecuador are definitely not the most attractive
If you like flat asses and big noses, you're in the right place.
So, over the past few months, I started looking at homes to potentially relocate and retire to in a couple years. Coincidentally, I also have a family member traveling to Ecuador in a few weeks. I began searching YouTube for Ecuador travel videos, and the search results return videos that sell real estate, presumably to folks from foreign countries (i.e., expats) looking to relocate to Ecuador.
I came across several homes in Ecuador that are amazing values compared to U.S.-based homes. Of course, folks will say it's all about location. However, let's set location aside and focus just on the material and labor costs of these homes. Something doesn't add up. In the examples below, I'll compare a 971 sq. ft., 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath home on a 5,227 sq. ft. lot located in North Carolina for $338,000 to a modern home in Ecuador. Honestly, the NC home basically looks like a shed. If someone told me that they purchased it as a kit from the local hardware store, I'd believe them.
Now, compare it to the five bedroom, six bath, two-story, mostly brick and glass home located on a very nice lot in a beautiful setting with gorgeous views in Ecuador for $275,000. Each bedroom has a private bath and access to a patio or balcony. There is at least one brick fireplace, and a very nice outdoor cooking area. Granite countertops in the kitchen and what appears to be marble tile in the bathrooms. A Covered car port is integrated into the design. The property includes about a dozen various types of citrus trees and more banana trees with an irrigation system to keep them healthy. The list of features goes on.
Obviously, the biggest difference might be the cost of labor. But, how many man-hours of labor could it take to build the NC house-shed compared to the brick and glass home in Ecuador? Even if the labor is cheaper, I gotta believe there is a heck of a lot more hours of labor and craftsmanship required to build the Ecuador home to balance out the cost difference. The cost of materials used to build the house in Ecuador has to dwarf the cost to build the house-shed in NC.
Furthermore, Ecuador's official currency is the U.S. dollar, for whatever that is worth.
Again, just comparing the cost to build these two homes and ignoring the location, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on with home prices in the U.S.? I suspect there is something rotten going on in our economy, and it's probably connected to all the other BS. There is no shortage of (or doesn't need to be) oil, gas, chicken, beef, steel, lumber, electricity, etc., yet these necessities are becoming less and less affordable for the average hard-working American. Now, you can lump basic housing into the mix of unaffordable items. Something tells me there are folks who don't want us to have these things, and so they are artificially being priced out of the reach of most Americans. By now, we've all probably heard the saying "you will own nothing and be happy." I think the way this is being accomplished right under our noses is by making it nearly impossible for anyone to own anything because of cost.
I'm sure some Campfire Capitalists will come along shortly to tell me that I'm just a broke-dick moron who is too dumb to understand economics and too lazy to afford things. That may or may not be the case. Regardless, if this keeps up, we are lost....
Please explain this to me in a way that passes the laugh test.
OK, the lot the crap house in NC sits on, sells for $200k
But, it's not just that lot in small-town western NC selling for $200k. It's almost everywhere in the country, and there is no REAL scarcity of land or construction materials that would be driving those costs in a REAL capitalist society. It's a fake, perverted economy that has been orchestrated and foisted onto the world.
I find it hard to believe that folks are OK with the fact that a 971 sq. ft. poorly built shed-house sitting on a 5,200 sq. ft. lot costs more than a third of a million dollars, and everyone is fine with it so long as they're convinced that it's just how capitalism works. Why can't you build a house that is similar to the home in Ecuador for your same money here, with maybe some additional labor costs? It's not, or it shouldn't be, the cost of materials. I doubt lumber and concrete and copper and polished granite and glass and tools are in any shorter supply in the U.S. than they are in a near-third world country. There is much more available land here, too.
Never mind that a significant percentage of single-family homes are being purchased by Wall Street investors so that these homes can then be rented to people who can't afford to buy them because they are competing with Wall Street investors from who knows where or what countries and probably using interest-free money they receive from the corrupt federal government through phony housing tax credits while the private individual is expected to pay in full plus an 8% usury fee, um, I mean mortgage.
I must say, up until I made this post, I would've felt like a total dumbazz for paying 1/3 million dollars to purchase a 971 sq. ft. shed-house in a no-name town sitting on top of a 5,200 sq. ft. lot without even a basement. I can't wait until a Booger King value meal costs me $50, then I'll know for sure that the 'Fire's version of capitalism is working.
But, I'm so glad I made my original post. I now realize what an idiot I am for questioning the "official" narrative about the cost of living in the U.S. and the fact that soon nobody will be able to afford a home. [bleep] our children. Let those poor, greedy little bastards figure it out. Let them eat cake....
Soon, no one will be able to afford even a modest home. Soon after, nobody will be able to afford a privately owned vehicle or the fuel to operate it. Then, no one will be able to afford clean, healthy food such as beef, chicken, fresh fruits and vegetables, eggs and milk, but I hear ground cricket flour tastes like chicken. Certainly electricity on-demand will be reserved only for the wealthy. And, this totalitarianism will all be accomplished under the guise of capitalism, so it'll be fine, and we can rest easy. Of course, our "capitalist" masters won't be giving up any of these things.
Are people crossing into Ecuador illegally by the 10's of 1,000's daily to reside there?
So, over the past few months, I started looking at homes to potentially relocate and retire to in a couple years. Coincidentally, I also have a family member traveling to Ecuador in a few weeks. I began searching YouTube for Ecuador travel videos, and the search results return videos that sell real estate, presumably to folks from foreign countries (i.e., expats) looking to relocate to Ecuador.
I came across several homes in Ecuador that are amazing values compared to U.S.-based homes. Of course, folks will say it's all about location. However, let's set location aside and focus just on the material and labor costs of these homes. Something doesn't add up. In the examples below, I'll compare a 971 sq. ft., 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath home on a 5,227 sq. ft. lot located in North Carolina for $338,000 to a modern home in Ecuador. Honestly, the NC home basically looks like a shed. If someone told me that they purchased it as a kit from the local hardware store, I'd believe them.
Now, compare it to the five bedroom, six bath, two-story, mostly brick and glass home located on a very nice lot in a beautiful setting with gorgeous views in Ecuador for $275,000. Each bedroom has a private bath and access to a patio or balcony. There is at least one brick fireplace, and a very nice outdoor cooking area. Granite countertops in the kitchen and what appears to be marble tile in the bathrooms. A Covered car port is integrated into the design. The property includes about a dozen various types of citrus trees and more banana trees with an irrigation system to keep them healthy. The list of features goes on.
Obviously, the biggest difference might be the cost of labor. But, how many man-hours of labor could it take to build the NC house-shed compared to the brick and glass home in Ecuador? Even if the labor is cheaper, I gotta believe there is a heck of a lot more hours of labor and craftsmanship required to build the Ecuador home to balance out the cost difference. The cost of materials used to build the house in Ecuador has to dwarf the cost to build the house-shed in NC.
Furthermore, Ecuador's official currency is the U.S. dollar, for whatever that is worth.
Again, just comparing the cost to build these two homes and ignoring the location, can someone explain to me what the heck is going on with home prices in the U.S.? I suspect there is something rotten going on in our economy, and it's probably connected to all the other BS. There is no shortage of (or doesn't need to be) oil, gas, chicken, beef, steel, lumber, electricity, etc., yet these necessities are becoming less and less affordable for the average hard-working American. Now, you can lump basic housing into the mix of unaffordable items. Something tells me there are folks who don't want us to have these things, and so they are artificially being priced out of the reach of most Americans. By now, we've all probably heard the saying "you will own nothing and be happy." I think the way this is being accomplished right under our noses is by making it nearly impossible for anyone to own anything because of cost.
I'm sure some Campfire Capitalists will come along shortly to tell me that I'm just a broke-dick moron who is too dumb to understand economics and too lazy to afford things. That may or may not be the case. Regardless, if this keeps up, we are lost....
Please explain this to me in a way that passes the laugh test.
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