Here�s the deal- I was contacted by this person on a rifle I was selling on the campfire classifieds on 12/27/11. He asked all the standard questions, like would you sell it without scope and so on. After a couple of PM�s back and forth he then drops the bomb.

deerhunterjj : �Well i will have 2650.00 around the 13th. The guy thats buying my cooper his gun shop is closed until then. Hes sending payment around the 11th to 14th If your willing to hold onto it for 2 to 2 1/2 weeks i will buy it. I hate to ask ya to do that but thats what im up against. Please let me know thanks�.

I ask him if I have this straight � He wants the rifle and will pay the price but wants me to hold it for two and a half weeks.

deerhunterjj : �Yes sir it will be the 2-2 1/2 weeks before the money gets to me. I will get you a money order soon as my money hits my hand. Am i making an since�.

ME: �I can hold it for you for the allotted time but the price is firm at 2750.00. Let me know if you agree to the terms and I will take you on your word and post it sold pending funds�.

deerhunterjj : Sounds fair to me. Just as soon as I get the money order I'm waiting on it will be headed your way. Thank you for working with me on it. If you could pm me payment addy I will let you know just as soon as it goes out. Thanks again�.

So on 01/16/12 this is what I get from him.

deerhunterjj : �Hello well i heard back from him hes having problems with a sale he had so im not sure how long it will be now.. Im really sorry i was 99% sure it would not of been an issue. I want to thank you very much for giving me a chance at it. If something changes and you still have it then i will go from there. Again im really really sorry about this�.

ME: �So what you are saying is you don't want it now or you are still waiting on the money to get to you from another person? I have waited this long and do not relish having to put it back up for sale on all the sites it was listed on. So if you still want it and are having money problems let me know and we will work something out�.

deerhunterjj: �Im still waiting on the funds to arrive. Im not sure how long its going to be for sure. I hate having you hold onto it for how ever longer and it not work out on my end. Its up to you i would like to still have it im just not sure whats all going on with the sale of my rifle now. The guy that bought my rifle is having issues with his buyers payment arrangments. I guess all i can do is give it a day or two and see if i can get more info on the money issue and get back to ya�.

ME: �Well, if you still want it, and I've been patient thus far. I say you send me a down payment and the rest can be worked on�.

Deerhunterjj: �I will see what i can get done i will get back with you tomorrow�.

It has been two days and I have not heard a word from this person. So I�m writing this to warn all others not to deal with this person for he is not a man of his word!

I have absolutely no patience for such dealings plus I never make an offer myself that I can not deliver on immediately. Poor ethics there.

Thanks, 1 minute. That is what I thought.

These threads never end well....

I hear you.

The simple answer of course is not to do business here.

Yeah poor ethics, but do not get discouraged. The good people to trade with out weigh the bad.

This is not a tragic story. You did not lose money. Your fault for agreeing to wait. First person with cash wins in my book.

Sorry Gentleman, but had to get it off the chest.

Repost it for sale and move on.

I would've got some earnest money (non-refundable) as a holder.

We used to have to do that when my family was in the horse trading bidness. People can play the "fake out" if they want, but when I had 10% of their money, they stayed with the deal. If not, no sweat off my balls.

Earnest money is always a good way to go when selling, and yeah, I like the 10% figure.

I've just learned that to do business here is just not worth the downside, which is of coarse a public piszin' match that sullys the reputation of both parties involved (there are always two sides -- at least -- to every story).

I've been pleased, and disapointed on transactions, but fortunate that I was never on public display, and have decided to keep it that way.

Unfortunately it happens. My advice is to suck it up and move on. Continuing pondering on it just gets you down. Life is to much fun for that.

I don't really see what's bad enough about what happened to publicly call a fella out for it.



Things didn't work out like he anticipated and he let you know instead of keeping you in limbo.


It's aggravating on your end but it's not like the other guy tried to get one up on you.

Spot on. [bleep] happens, just relist it.

+1.

Not like he swindled you out of money for chrissakes.

Certainly an inconvenience but it doesn't appear he was intentionally deceitful.

+1

I don't know the details here, but if he put up "I'll take it" on the thread he ought not to have done so. If you two worked this out over PMs as posted then it sounds to me like he is being 100% straight up. He thought he was getting something he isn't getting and doesn't want to keep you waiting. Seems fair to me.

You agreed to the wait. He is having problems from the other transaction and has kept you notified. He is in a bad spot because things did not go as planned. I believe he is sincere and will not do this if he knows it will be a wreck. You come off as having a temper tantrum when you agreed to the wait. You have to figure that the best lais plans can often go south.Quit whining and put it back up or wait for him.

Cash ONLY.

Spoken like a mature gentleman.

I agree. Poor excuse to call a guy out.

Amen you said it perfect. Let it go and move on

I can understand a warning if someone flat out lied to you, but to me on this deal it just seems like the buyer was counting his chickens before they hatched, but I do not see where he mislead you in any way shape or form, and it has only been 2 days since you last heard from him.

I could understand if you sent the merchandise, and were expecting a payment, but as long as you still have it in your possesion I do not see a problem.

This is just my opinion YMMV.

Quote: Winnie1300 Yeah poor ethics, but do not get discouraged. The good people to trade with out weigh the bad.

It does'nt seem to be that way, If you read the replys on the thread, I'm in the wrong according to them.

I guess their is very few real people left : Winnie1300, 1minute, slumlord, Miss Lynn, Rock Chuck :)Thanks

I haven't read but a couple of these,but need to check my post count. Bob

What are you out other than time, the guy told you from the beginning he did not have the money right away, YOU agreed to hold it, he thought he had a deal, chit happens, for [bleep] sake stop being a gawddamn pussy.

The way I see it you are pissed at yourself for agreeing to something you knew you shouldnt have agreed to, and now you are trying to save face. Hell you posted your entire PM exchange. For [bleep] sake just relist the damn thing and wash the sand outta your crotch.

And another thing I don't post much but, I read alot and all over this form is b!tch, moans and complaints about this politician or that politician not doing what they said they were going to do and everybody on here is up in arms. Yet when some person gives his word and then does not follow through it is no biggy.
Well I think alot of you guys should start looking inside at your own ethics before you B!tch about the politicians. Because if we are not accountable for our own actions then how can we expect our politicians to be? It is a slippery road you drive.
Have a good night.

Bubbajay,
I'm in billings Mt. why don't you come on over and we will see who is a Pussy.

You should have just taken his gun for your gun straight across trade. That way is could have been immediate without delay. I don't believe in swapping dollars for goods in any way. Barter for your goods and cut out the middle men that hold the money.

what would that solve, you have more than likely spent more time on this thread trying to warn everybody about a guy that told you straight up from the beginning his purchase was dependant on the sale of his own rifle. His deal fell through, chit happens, it was completely spelled out in the pm's that you posted.

I have no reason to go to Billings, but if your feeling up to it I am at the expressway suites room 122 Bismarck ND.

I'm sorry Kinsman, can't see this as a reason to call a guy out. He explained his situation to you from the beginning. Relist the gun and move on. You're making this into an issue of "honor" and "morals". Where did he go wrong? He said he would like the gun but didn't have the money at the moment. You agreed to wait. He's kept you informed throughout, explaining that he was trying to get the money. You agreed to keep waiting, at any point you could have said enough. But instead you decide to b!tch about it publicly.

With any luck, one of them will buy your rifle so you can STFU. Honestly, if this is the worst transaction you ever have, you are truly blessed.

No harm, no foul.

So, we're all cool with posting PMs when nothing dastardly occurred?

I forget; is the "P" in PM for private or just personal?

Try again.

huh?

Well, they may be real, but are they turdlike? This is the question.

I guess I'm not real either. I can see why you are frustrated, but look it like this. He made you an offer that was clearly contingent on the sale of his gun. You accepted it, with that in mind. His gun sale hasn't consummated; he can't buy your rifle, but that's according to the framework you guys laid out.

Or so it appears to me. It doesn't seem to rate a public flogging.

Good luck selling your rifle!

I've heard that's common in real estate too.

It must be winter.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

Agreed.

If you don't like tradin' horses, don't horse trade.


Travis

The guy just could not raise the funds to buy. Sounds like he informed you of his inability to pay in a timely manner. It was a calculated decision on your part to hold it for a period of time. It has not worked out so just re-post it in the classifieds and move on. Sounds like his only crime is wanting something he is unable to pay for. He was even apologetic maybe even embarrassed.

Told ya....

Any transaction must have both parties agree to the terms of the transaction. the potential buyer asked the seller to hold the item and the seller agreed. He asked for further concessions and (as I understand it) the seller further agreed. Finally,the deal went South. This is just an example of how not to sell something.

I've held guns for weeks and months for guys to come up with payment. No big deal.

I (about 2 years ago) bought a take-off barrel through GunBroker.com. I took it to a gunsmith to install on a rifle and he (after examining it) said that the barrel had been installed on at least 2 rifles based on the amount of metal removed from the shank.

I contacted the seller who refused to do anything so I contacted GunBroker and they just referred me to their rules and wouldn't intercede. A lesson learned!

I agree with JeffO. When someone accepts an offer subject to a contingency, it means that there is no deal if the matter upon which the deal is contingent does not occur, as long as the offeror does not act in bad faith to cause the contingency to fail. It does not mean that the offeror is not a man of his word. I would never start a thread under these circumstances.

Well, I heard one side of the story. Now I'd like to hear deerhunterjj's side. Still, from what I know now I see no reason to go puplic with this.

Really not sure what the problem is. Things didn't work out. Minor inconvenience maybe but the man didn't seem to mislead in any way.

No real harm done, was there? It sounded like he was up front with things from his end, asked you politely to wait, and you agreed. You knew he was waiting on funds from a third party, and we all know how THAT usually works out. I agree, you were inconvenienced, but did he lie to you? Stop payment on a cheque? Sometimes things don't go as planned. Don't stress over it.

So it is unethical for people to B!tch about politicians, but it is all fine and dandy to drag someone's name through the mud because you are unhappy with how things worked out, when he TOLD YOU HE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY YET. Lesson learned...you knew he couldn't pay yet, but you still accepted the offer...YOUR FAULT.

note to self.....seems ok to deal with deerhunterjj cause he communicates but dont deal with Kinsmen cause if the slightest thing beyond your control goes wrong he is gonna beotch.....

firm believer in chit happens....see nothing to indicate deerhunter tried to [bleep] over anyone.....he was clear up front, didnt mean yah had to accept his terms....

I never mark an item SPF. It's not sold until the $$ is in. Meanwhile, if the $$ never shows, other people already think the item is sold.

Some people would b1tch if they were hung with a new rope.

"note to self.....seems ok to deal with deerhunterjj cause he communicates but dont deal with Kinsmen cause if the slightest thing beyond your control goes wrong he is gonna beotch....."

+1

I bought a 220 Swift here on the fire, on a deerhunterjj orchestrated deal with one of his buds, all went well and the rifle is more accurate than he described, and the 200 pieces of new brass was just that.

gunner

Kinda the way I see it too. Seems to me like deerhunterjj is a stand up guy. miles

+2

winna winna, tell he what he has won Ed.....seriously, you aren't out anything but time here. Re-list it and move on.

You are going to get slammed because everyone here believes these things should be handled via PM. Risk of doing business on the honor system sometimes. No slight against any particular person on here, but you have your good and your bad. The good far outweighes the bad IMO. As I said, it only cost you time. What exactly did you think would happen with this thread? There have been dozens exactly like it in the past, none of them turn out well.

money talks
b.s. walks
you aint gonna get that rifle in my 3 lock box............

I strongly agree here. The only thing "lost" was time....

I don't think it was right to call him out like that.

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here, it looks to me that you aren't out anything and deerhunterjj was honest and forthright, no need to take this beyond a pm matter

Posting those pm's in this thread was done in poor taste, you shoulda kept that private. Just relist your rifle and move on already.

Oops. Too late.

No harm, no foul.

Has the rifle sold yet?

If it were that big a deal, why didn't you just tell him, " If I still have it when you come up with the money, I'll sell it to you".

I no longer hold an item for someone; if I still have the item when you get the cash, we'll work a deal...until then it it still for sale. A few times in the past I've turned down offers because I was holding an item for someone, and a deal fell through. No more.

Calling his integrity into question when things happened beyond his control is not really warranted, in my opinion. There was no intent to deceive or defraud. He's probably as upset with the guy "buying" his gun as you are with him. Learn from this and press on.

Some of the guys make a good point. Do you want to know who it is that is not sending jj the money so you can do this to them also? That would seem to be the same problem for him, as you say he is to you. He isn't getting the money, neither are you. May as well go all the way.
Let's hear it jj, who is this unscrulpulous "dealer"?

i saw nothing wrong with what he did. he kept you informed and the deal fell thru.if you were hard up for the cash you could have pawned it or sold it locally. the only display of bad ethics i saw was the o.p. RAISING the previously discussed set price.

Sounds like sour grapes to me... Kinsman, was a sweet little profit involved? Otherwise, just sell it to Spanko..

anyone who has to wait for this to sell to fund that, or is waiting on a tax refund, or waiting on a settlement dosen't have discretionary spending money. does he deserve to be called out? not really because you should have said "well when you have the money check back to see if it's still for sale"

Where is that beating-a-dead-horse pic?

How old are you Kinsman?