http://www.wbay.com/story/26375754/officials-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-instructor

This is so wrong on so many levels!
Sad situation indeed.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Sounds pretty much like it was self inflicted by the instructor...

Sorry, but stupid should hurt.

I feel bad for the kid though. That will be tough to live with.

Yup, that pretty much defines stupid. You see enough safety lapses with kids that age on a trap range with an instructor standing right next to a shooter and the instructor handing one shell at a time. The instructor keeps it safe so errant shots hit the back of the trap house at worst. Something unexpected happens and it all goes to hell, even a failure to feed that one shell when the action closes.

Poor girl will feel that sting the rest of her life. Prayers sent for all involved. Very sad deal, and will probably have big repercussions.

Darwin Award and/or Gene pool cleansing.

Nine yo is too young to handle a firearm.

I don't think so.
I bought my oldest daughter her first rifle when she was 6...she killed her first deer when she was 8.

Damn, someone should have let my old man know. I was shooting at 5.

Stupid on many fronts. One being allowing a 9 year old to handle anything but a .22 single-shot.

To young to handle THAT firearm. My boys were both shooting at 7.

Really depends on the individual and circumstance. Even in a very controlled and closely supervised setting, 4-H trap, some kids can't do it safely even with individual instruction. We explain the safety issues to the parents and invite the kid to try again next year. Others do wonderfully and I wouldn't mind hunting with them, closely supervised of course. Most fall somewhere in between.

My daughter passed hunter's safety, including range exercise, at age 9 and 1 month. Hell, I only beat her score by one answer (the only one she got wrong).

Carried a gun in the field, completely safely, since she was ten. Matter of fact, I'd rather have her around me at 9, than my son at 14.....

No absolutes about when kids are mature enough.

Yes. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. What kind of trip was that parent on? A 1/2 second lapse of attention with kids, and life can go terribly wrong.

I suspect there are many here that were shooting independently at relatively young ages. Started as a teen in my case, and it was only luck that got me or someone around me through with no injuries.

Several of my friends spout off pre-teen experiences, and near every one of them can relate a couple "near hit" adventures.

Some of the ages I hear today, will land a parent in jail if something goes wrong.

A college buddy of mine raised his two kids on a ranch with guns in every corner. At a reunion with about a dozen of us around a couple of us questioned the practice. Trusted them to no end, as their curiosity about arms had long since passsed. One day about a year later, little sis was late coming home from school and found her 12 year old brother dead in the parent's bedroom. Seems he decided to toy with dad's 44. The marriage did not last either.

I tend to error on the conservatice side. Two issues: 1. I love the kids, and 2. I'm not about to give up my net worth in a lawsuit.

I don't know if the question is whether SOME 9 year olds can handle guns.


But more the question of what justifies it?


I didn't get to shoot a gun, outside of a few very limited instances, until I was old enough to get a hunting license. No harm done here.

BB guns are plenty of gun to keep a kid excited.

Fond memories of my dad teaching me how to shoot (safely!) at a range and the first time hunting when I was ten. (Yes, legal. There was absolutely no excuse for me ever violating a law.) Didn't shoot anything, didn't even see anything to shoot at. Still miss the old man very much. BB gun first, and it was treated like a firearm at all times. Stored away from me too when not in use - guns were considered family property with access only when there was a good purpose and as Dad saw fit. A good ploy for safety.

I just have to wonder how many of yall have kids. 9 is plenty old enough to shoot. Not old enough to shoot automatic weapons, but certainly old enough to shoot. Both my kids started with single shot 22s off a bench at 5 years old. They soon progressed from there to other appropriate rifles and handguns.

The parents and the instructor were very wrong to allow this to happen. I feel for the girl having to live with this. The problem however was not 9 year olds shooting guns but adults without the sense to know what is appropriate and what isn't.

shooting a fully automatic handgun is not safe for most children. some maybe, but not most. this happened a few years ago as well with a young man shooting a small full-auto handgun except that he shot himself with it.

that gun range is liable for allowing that in my opinion. WTF were they thinking?

Last line says it all.
Should have been loaded w/ a single round.

Was this one of those "shoot a machine gun!" ranges they advertise all over Las Vegas?

Lots of kids start shooting at the age of 5 to 6,but it's pretty moronic to put an automatic weapon in the hands of a child so young. Where was the possible motivation for this? I find it hard to believe the kid said, "Daddy, I really want to shoot a .50 BMG, but maybe I should start with a smaller machine gun....."

Anyone who would allow a kid this age to do this is just plain WRONG.

Any range that would allow a child this young to shoot an automatic weapon is wrong also.

This poor kid's gonna be scarred for life.

Another Darwin Award

She did as the "instructor" told her.
Worse last line than "hold my beer and watch this"

Full grown men have a hard time learning to fire full auto hence the reason the M-16 eventually had a three round burst limit.

That sums it up completely for me.

This here.

Instructor got what he had coming putting an UZI in the hands of a 9 year old. That poor girl has to live with it though.

Black Tshirt
BDUs
Shaved Head
Oakleys
Gloves

Dude was a walking stereotype. Range was probably hiring on looks, not ability.

Poor girl, but you just watch the parents file a lawsuit.

If there's any up side here it's that at least the kid wasn't the one shot.

That was last time.

funny how someone mentioned stereo types. with the gun market growing and in particular the tactical gun market. it seems to be attracting quite a few military wanna be types. maybe its the video games I don't know. go over to snipers hide or ar 15.com lets just say I don't fit in over there. most guys over there are know it alls and can't be taught anything.

I wouldn't have let a 9yr old girl shoot that gun, but if I was going to have I would have been standing behind her with my hands also on the gun.

I just read this story. It was an extremely sad event. The kid is probably most blameless. Her parents are probably blameless as well. I'm sure that they were told that the course was 100% safe. Were I to assign blame, it would be with the deceased.

A month or so ago, I took a friend who had never fired a gun, her 18 year-old son who had fired a gun, and her 13 year old daughter who had never fired a gun to a local indoor range. They were shooting a Browning 1911 .22. The 18 year-old had it wired. I stood beside him for a few shots and realized he had it wired. The 13 year-old was naturally precocious. She took to it pretty darn quickly. He brother helped her out. After a couple mags I was confident that she had it wired, so I sat on a seat right behind them & kept my eye on 'em.

The mom was an effing nightmare. Sometimes I think she has a screw that needs a lot more of righty tighty. Anyway, I loaded the gun and handed it to her with it pointing down range. I stood within inches of her left side. At the report, she shuddered in some emotion and began turning toward me with the muzzle of the gun moving left. I immediately grabbed the gun while it was still in her hand and forced the muzzle back downrange. She had perplexed look on her face. She asked why I was mad. I told her that I wasn't mad. I told her that I had merely reacted in order to prevent a catastrophe. Had she killed me or, God forbid, another shooter, then I'd of been mad. The point being that I was responsible for her handling that gun.

The deceased instructor, while I feel bad that he has lost his life, was 100% responsible for that kid firing that weapon. He's dead and she might wind up brain dead. Everybody lost.

My Dad learned to shoot on a single shot, I learned to shoot on a single shot, my kids learned to shoot on a single shot. Always made sense to me.

Some folks think it's mighty cute to have their little kids blazing away on weaponry way beyond their abilities. Things like this happen to such folks.

You really do have to feel for the kid. Parents need to know their kids' limitations.

Instructor and parents are at fault here.

Yeah, I heard about this on the radio yesterday. Tragic. It immediately occurred to me that the left would figure a way "not to waste" this tragedy, though, to paraphrase Rahm Emanuel.

+1

That was either a Mini Uzi or a Micro Uzi, because it has the side folding wire shoulder stock. The Mini Uzi has a cyclic rate of around 900rpm, and the Micro Uzi has a cyclic rate of over 1200rpm. BOTH are a handful for an experienced shooter. What the hell were they thinking?

My daughter was handling my LW .45 Commander by that age, and handling it well. And I STILL wouldn't put a mini or micro Uzi in her hands, even if I was standing right next to her.

The thing people forget...It's not the recoil that's the problem, it's the shooters RESPONSE to the recoil. And 900-1200rpm can be a scary thing for an adult let alone a little girl.

Hardly.

Yep.

Dumbazz Don couldn't get a T/F test right with only one answer offered.

I was shooting at 6, as were my cousins and more recently our kids. SUPERVISED, and with age and size appropriate weapons.

I disagree, and respectfully I hope by this post.

by the time I was old enough to have a hunting license at 16 I'd been prowling the woods and taking game by myself for about 4 years.

I started shooting at a very young age, 5-6 with a single shot .22, most often with it resting on my dad's shoulder to knock a squirrel out of a tree. and yes we ate those squirrels they're delicious.

for my own kids, it varied at what age they began shooting, my oldest a girl was 10 before she was interested enough to learn the first 4 rules of gun safety, recite them and tell me why each was important.

her lil brother, was able to do so by six.

he's dang near 21 now and I'm sure he's sick to death of me repeating myself by now. Whenever we pick up a firearm, I almost always tell him, "son that's an unforgiving sob you just picked up, do well to remember so"

Yikes!
Now they are showing this "incident" on national news via video of said tragedy!
F.M.B.!
Yeah the tiny girl was set up flat footed and her feet perpindicular to the target - nothing to do but recoil back into the spectators!
Reminds me of another tragedy that occurred about 15 years ago in Bellevue, Washington where a Church group went on an outing to an indoor pistol range.
SOMEONE set up a small gal with a S&W M-29 in 44 Magnum!
She fires the revolver once (flat footed and feet perpindicular to the target!) and the recoil of the first shot lifted the pistol to over head and pointing backwards when she, in shock, pulled the trigger again KILLING her "instructor" Church group leader!
People unfamiliar with recoil and or firearms should be cautiously introduced to shooting with extremely low recoiling arms IMO!
Should they not?
I feel terrible over the results of this accident and now for the negative news coverage.
Sad.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Never shot an uzi. Have been on the range with others firing one though. Like many have said. it would be easy to lose control enough to harm someone else on the range.

I know the fatal shot isn't on the video, but I couldn't watch it knowing what was about to happen.

With regard to ages when its ok for kids to start shooting, as many have said, it all depends on the person.

Last time I took kids to the range I had 4 ranging from 9 to 12. Kids were shooting everything from a Marlin 60, a Savage Rascal (single-shot) a pump action remington and a S&W MP 15-22. everyone started firing a single round at a time. Then load another.

Then we graduated to where I would load 3 or 4 in a mag. Switch to the next shooter and load 3 or 4 in that rifle's mag. Then I would let the first shooter begin firing. Once shooter #1 had safely shot a couple rounds, I went to shooter 3 and repeated.

After a while, I would allow the kids to have 5 rounds per mag. This was a process to get where I was comfortable enough to let them shoot at the same time. I was very pleased with their handling of the firearms, especially keeping finger off the trigger and muzzle control.

I agree. A high cyclical rate of fire is much harder to control than a slow rate of fire and both are a hand full.

There are plenty of you tube videos to prove the point in case anybody needs to know.

Our ranks seem to have no shortage of dolts like this instructor. The one that torques me to no end is the idiot boyfriend or husband who puts a heavy recoiling handgun, rifle or shotgun in the hands of his inexperienced wife or girlfriend and then thinks the results are hilarious.

DITTOS!! DITTOS!! DITTOS!!

Question ...

Does an Uzi have a selectable rate of fire as in semi vs full auto?

Sometimes we are are own worst enemy. We had a similar case here in 08 where it was an 8 year old who shot himself in the head due to the recoil causing him to lose control of the weapon. The "instructor" had walked away leaving a 17 year old in charge. The young boy's Dad was standing right there.

When our kid's learn to drive we send them to driving school and teach them. We have these cases where some think it's ok to put a gun in a child's hands and tell them to pull the trigger.

The antis just love it when such extreame stupidity goes on display.

I'm am sorry for that families loss but am so frustrated that this dangerous practice is still allowed at any responsible gun club.

No, the rate of fire is fixed.

Hardly.

This kid just shot a carbine match with us in Cody and beat some of the Grownups.



Of course he started out with air guns and .22s long before he turned nine. His dad bought the carbine for his 9th birthday.

Lots of things wrong with how that disaster in the OP went down but the age of the young girl was not the problem.

Most of these "shoot a machine gun event" draw in folks who have never even picked up a firearm let alone shoot one. That's the recipe for trouble.

I have seen such many times. I'm now at the age that when I see that coming, I'm going to get in someone's face. Nothing quite as comical as watching some 70 lb girl light off a 3-inch 12 gauge she can barely shoulder. Idiots.

How does anyone figure that the range has responsibility in this?

I've fired full auto Uzi's and they are a handful.



Travis

If our range lets you on it it's responsible. Whenever we have public events we have to take out a rider over and above our normal liability policy.

How much training do you think they gave her before they put the MP in her hands?

Like I asked before, I'm betting this is one of those rent a machine gun ranges they advertise all over Vegas.

I guess y'all's ranges are different then. Around here you rent a bay for however long you want it and go shoot. They don't supply an instructor, just a dude on a golf cart making sure you pick up your trash.

I'm assuming that the range owned that Class III Uzi, right? I'm assuming the range advertised for machine gun rental, right? I'm assuming that is their employee out there putting an Uzi in the hands of a 9-year-old child, right?

You're right - the range has zero responsibility. That range will be closed soon, because they will be uninsurable.

minimum age to hunt here. I had my son deer hunting at 9 or 10 just do to maturity. My friend has his 5 year old slaying me pretty big deer with a 22 Hornet. My son was ready and the next one may start sooner. Just depends on how mature he is. And I give them the bullet after the deer has entered the field. I do not give even adults I mentor a round until then or at the minimum until they are seated in a stand and pointed in a safe direction with me right beside them. Sometimes I hold the gun for adults until we see a deer. I am not looking to get shot.
I remember something like this happening at a gun show in Mass. some years back and the kid died. Made me sick to my stomach reading it.

My friends son is now 6 or 7 and took a few nice bucks last year with a bow. I think that is a bit too young but I am not his father nor do I fully know his maturity level.

On our range you buy a membership for a year and go whenever you want. We have a locked gate.

There is an alternative to full auto.

Load only one round.

She squeezes one round on a single - shot setting, then he reaches down and clearly says, "Okay - now full auto". 2 seconds later he's done.

I'm just commenting on the rent a machine gun ranges in LV..

If everything you assumed is accurate.....

I work at the original and busiest of those Las Vegas ranges that feature machine gun rentals. No child of that age and stature would be allowed to shoot that weapon. We offer a kids package that features exotic looking 10-22s. No shooter of any age that shoots a rental, other than ccw quals following instruction, is allowed to hold a firearm w/out an instructor w/in hands reach of the ejection port at all times. The Uzi would be about the last firearm I would hand a child. We average 12 million rounds downrange annually. We haven't had an injury in 25 years of operation other than suicides. I can't imagine that operation remaining insurable. Despite a flawless safety record our insurance cost is staggering. This unnecessary tragedy won't be good thing for anyone interested in guns.

mike r

To no one in particular.

The age should have nothing to do with kids shooting,just how mature they are.
had my kids shooting 22's when 5 or 6 and it was a single shot.
Then worked them up to larger caliber as they got bigger.
I found that they were not able to handle the larger calibers they went back down.
Safety was gone over all the time,still is.
Things sometimes don't work out as we hope,but i hope that the child is getting some help to get over this.
The parents are the ones to blame for this not the range and the instructor had a rather large hand in this happening.

story going around several years ago about the same thing happening at the machine gun shoot with a 10 year old.

kid wasn't prepared for the gun rising up on him and shot someone.

wow- couldn't find anything about the 10 year old but in 2008

WESTFIELD, Mass. (AP) � An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, police Lt. Lawrence Vallierpratte said.

The boy, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and "was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury," a police statement said.

"The weapon was loaded and ready to fire," police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. "The 8-year-old victim had the Uzi and as he was firing the weapon, the front end of the weapon went up with the backfire and he ended up receiving a round in his head."

Yes, I remember this. D�j� vu all over again.

Sad situation for all involved. All three of my kids have been shooting responsibly since they were 5 yrs old. Now 7, 11 and 14. But I don't think at any time I would have let them shoot a full auto weapon that wasn't shoulder mounted or easlily controlled. This doesn't help anything related to guns or the shoot sports. Prayers for all involved.

I have a lot of experience shooting many different automatic weapons. I have introduced quite a few people to the experience, including some fairly young shooters�.my sons started shooting these types of weapons when they were young, but they were never allowed to be the only person controlling the weapon until they were absolutely able to handle it. Even then, they were only allowed to fire weapons that were much easier to control than the mini uzi that the girl was shooting. The mini uzi is a blow back operated weapon that fires from an open bolt and has a very high rate of fire��.it is a hand full for even experienced shooters.

This "instructor" would still be alive if he had simply knelt behind this girl and held the weapon with her��.she would still have had the experience of firing it��..and he would still be alive.

Do I believe she should have been allowed to shoot the weapon��.yes, but only if an adult also had a hand on the front of the weapon to control the muzzle.

One moment of poor judgement ended one life and forever changed others.

Bamagun01: Good work on familiarizing the offspring with firearms and to use them responsibly.
The TV play is really ramping up regarding this incident!
Sad, sad, sad situation.
I am just heartsick for the instructors death and for his family - he was obviously "one of us" and we are diminished.
I think I will mourn for some more hours/days and then think about what if anything I/we can do to perhaps help the instructors family (children, wife) if he has them???
Prayers have been invoked.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Bullschidt. Uzis, like other 2nd-gen sub-guns are select-fire.

1st gen sub-guns like the M3, Sten, and Swedish K, did not. The grand-old Thompson was the exception.

Ain't it amazing that only the SF "poser" knows this? GF yerselves, if it applies.

That's a little harsh.

Good job, poser.



Travis

Google?

It's what sherp_a_knee lives on...

Gentlemen, gentlemen!
Lets take a breath and try to find a lesson here to prevent any future incidents of this type.
I simply had to turn the background TV off as the now "partial video" of this incident is everywhere.
I have fired quite a few fully automatic weapons from Tommy Guns to Uzis to MP-5's and many varieties of auto M-16's - I just don't think I would partake in sharing those experiences with a diminutive (tiny!) 9 year old girl.
Maybe I am over reacting - just so upset about this right now.
Hopefully the child will not be seriously scarred - scratch the hoping, I am praying that will be the case.
Can't bring those bullets back once expended.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Didn't need this to happen to know it's not the way to do things..

Let's say a 15 year girl old studies, then passes her written DL test - all on the same day - (mind you; zero practical behind the wheel experience)...

Would you ride shotgun (as her initial driving instructor on this maiden voyage) in a high perf sports-car?

Not a real good analogy if you've seen the video, but if I did, I don't think I deserve to die for it.

Yet another significant error chalked up to Kevin this week.

Sticking a full auto UZI in the hand of such an inexperienced shooter (regardless of age) is asking for disaster.

Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it (to paraphrase a movie) but it seems to be a predictable outcome from the Monday Mornin' Quarterback position.

Full auto is not for beginners. This does not seem to be a hard concept for those that shoot once in a while.

+1

bottom line is that this is a disaster for gun owners across America. The incident opens up another line of attack against us all.
Charges if irresponsibility, debate on the issue of full auto weapons, issues of children put into danger, chit, all sorts of crap is now popping up.
Our local left wing mullet wrapper has a big piece this morning on the sad story.

I've already been asked and already said one mistake does not have anything to do with the rest of us.

I don't defend that guy, he was stupid. When you say "that was stupid" and "that had nothing to do with her age" and "it was about inexperience, not age" and "full auto is hard even for people that shoot full auto a lot" then the gun-grabbing knuckleheads at least have to regroup and give it a thunk as an accident, which it was.

This incident has no more to do with me owning guns than I allow it to.

It only makes us all look stupid if we allow it to.

David_Walter: Unfortunately "I" think this "mistake" does "have something to do with the rest of us"!
The massive amount of bad publicity just so far will have a detrimental effect in many ways on those of us that keep and bear arms.
The "ammunition" this incident has provided the anti-Second Amendment types is significant.
On top of the tragic loss of life the harm to pro-gun types and causes will be real.
Again a sad situation on so many fronts.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Sure, why not? First gear, nice and slow and easy.

What I wouldn't do; is tell her to nail the throttle, dump the clutch and go as fast as she could.

See the difference now?

LRoyJetson and all: NOW... CNN is asking all possible Presidential candidates what their position is on 9 year olds shooting Uzis!
WTF!
I knew this was gonna be a bad one but hillary dillary cock clinton's answer to the Uzi vs. 9 y/o's was lenghty and lame (at best).
No question about the 18 Trillion dollar and un-repayable national debt just a set-up softball inquiry into the latest gun tragedy?
I fear for the future of our country.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yup, this is going viral and it's not good. One dumb [bleep] and the rest of us have to pay for it.

I guess I misunderstood the question. I took that to mean "is the cyclic rate selectable"...Now that I re-read the question, your answer is right. The UZI, Mini-UZI, and Micro-UZI all have a selector for Safe, Semi, Full.

The question could not have been more clear. Why don't you just admit you screwed up and got something fundamentally wrong again? Too proud?

BTW - The STEN had the option of semi-auto fire. What looks like a cross bolt safety on the Sten is the selector for semi & full auto. There is no "safety" on the Sten other than the notch for the cocking handle on the reciever.

Oh dear Gawd Hawk, grow the puck up.

My previous post was about cyclic rates, so I had that on the brain. I didn't read the question carefully and gave an inappropriate answer...and got it wrong. Lighten up.

A guy was doing that with his brand-new Uzi once when I showed up at a public range. Tossed a cardboard box out 10-15ft or so, held the Uzi out one handed, and squeezed the trigger. Recoil drove the muzzle up and over, and suddenly he was spraying bullets all over the place, hanging onto the gun with a floppy one-handed death grip so that it wouldn't "get away from him."

Sheesh.

I turned right around and went home. No range for me that day.

The first time you fire a full-auto weapon, shoot it a couple of times with one round in the magazine so that you get a feel for the recoil. Then shoot it a few times with two rounds, so that you find out what it does when it fires as it's in the process of coming out of recoil.

I have a French MAS 49/56 converted from 7.5 Swiss to 7.62 NATO that I never fire with more than two rounds in the magazine unless I'm shooting military-surplus ammunition with hard primers, because it's got a huge, heavy, jack-handle-ish free-floating firing pin that frequently slamfires commercial ammo. I can handle one additional slamfired 7.62 round from that gun with no trouble, but two--for a total of three--modifies my point of aim enough to be dangerous.

Well you were almost right. I researched you tube on the Uzi. To slow down the rate on the Micro you can put in a heavier bolt and it will slow down the rate. Go back to the normal bolt and the rate is higher and standard for the Micro. The guy in the video did just that and no problems were encountered.

I also came across a video on the Micro and Mini with the wire shoulder rest and the rest can close while firing the smaller Uzis. The guy had that problem in the video but being a young 30 something and being familiar with the weapon kept the weapon under control. He did shoot to the left and off the target when the wire stock started to collapse to the right side of the weapon.

That's not an "adjustable cyclic rate" that's just playing with the physics of the gun. There are some weapons that have a device to either alter (VZ61 Skorpion as an example) or make the cyclic rate adjustable (BAR as an example).

Ya I know that I was just trying to help you out. The bolt is real easy to change but I would not want to have to that in battle.

I would hope to never find myself in a battle armed with a Micro-UZI. They're the epitome of worthless. Cyclic rate is WAY too high, they're very difficult to control for any sort of meaningful accuracy. It's basically a machine pistol and just like all other machine pistols; worthless.

I guess with an extended shoulder stock on semi-auto it's better than nothing.

And you're too stupid to be posting on an internet forum...yet here you are.

My concern is they will ram some restriction on all firearms and age of use down our throats. Guaranteed to happen now in California, Connecticut , Maryland, New York and New jersey.

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste."

- Rahm Israel Emanuel

I've never fired a Uzi of any type but from the you tube videos I saw I would have to agree.

The full size Uzi especially with the solid wood stock would probably be good for close range work.

The reason the military went to a three round burst is that full auto is too hard to control, and shots after 3 or 4 are usually off target.

At best, he should have put 4 rounds in the mag just to ensure all rounds fired were down range.

Again, this is only a disaster for us if we let it be one.

No, the reason the Army had FN install that idiotic 3-shot burst is because a bunch of non-shooting moron officers thought it was a good idea. That is the same reason we got stuck (and still are) stuck with that stupid 92F. Non-morons who knew how to run a pistol specced the 92G, or a different gun entirely.

Around here, and perhaps elsewhere, we call these types of autos the 50/50ties...when asked why we say ya got a 50% chance of hitting the target and 50% chance of shooting yourself.

Now I'm not saying folks shouldn't have em' just saying that without a lot of experience the full auto recoil will take you by surprise. Not a lot to hang onto.

Wrong, again.

I got to say about this little political / media event which certainly seems to be gathering momentum.

......The shootee was NOT an "Instructor". He was a sideshow barker at a roadside carnival / freak show.

Calling him an instructor is just flat WRONG.

GTC

Yep. His job was to get money into the till, nothing more.

And yes, I see this was one of those "shoot a machine gun!" places advertised all over Vegas.

crossfire;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust this Labour Day weekend - spelled that way in honour of your expat status - finds you well.

Since I've been teaching the BC Hunter Safety course for more than two decades now, was an active certified PAL instructor and have been range officer at "shooting days" open to the public at our gun club, I've got to guess that I'm responsible for being the first time instructor for hundreds of folks now.

When I watched that video for the first time I was shaking my head and muttering at the screen crossfire - much like the recent vid of the guy whipping the horse - one knew it was a disaster in the making.

Anyway thanks for the confirmation this unfortunate fellow wasn't a trained instructor as that makes more sense, though it's a stark reminder to us who do instruct that when we're on the hot range there are no "do overs". Again much like handling horses in the mountains it strikes me.

Thanks again and all the best to you this Labour Day weekend sir. Stay safe down there in your border homelands.

Dwayne

BC30cal: And best of wishes to all Canadians here, near the end of summer - start of fall.
One of the very few things I miss about living in Seattle was the large number of decent and hard working Canadian folk that came down to visit and recreate in the Puget Sound area.
Where I live now I see very few Canadians camping or visiting - they do come through here on Interstae 15 by the hundreds of thousands but they are all heading south for sunbird country or Las vegas.
Again best wishes to all Canadians - you are very good neighbors!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yup, that's what they told us too. Said it was to hard to teach us dummies to fire 3-4 round bursts.