http://www.channel3000.com/news/sheriffs-captain-accidentally-shoots-self/28090852

I wouldn't own a Glock. They are the most unsafe pistol I know. There are plenty of good striker pistols out there with real safeties.

I see nothing in that article that suggests it was a Glock...

Trigger just up and pulled itself! I swear!

I wouldn't own anything but a Glock. Well, I do own a Ruger blackhawk 45LC, so I guess that's not exactly true...

Then again, I know a thing or two about safety. You know, such things as muzzle awareness and trigger discipline...

Foreign concepts, I know....

Nothing states what model/make of pistol it is. Glock is an assumption.

As to their safety, I don't know of any that are safe to clean while loaded.

Cleaning a loaded gun? Could this be the cause?

Hug, you can own "my" Glock. I'll take a real safety any day. Sig, FN, Ruger make far safer striker fired pistols than any Glock.

So, he was cleaning it with a round in the chamber?

And glocks have that great safety feature where you pull the trigger while removing the slide....

Yep!

Sounds like he failed to do what we're all taught to do...

Check the chamber each and everytime you pick up the gun...

All you have to be is smart enough not to pull the trigger on a loaded pistol, unless you want to shoot something. If you aren't that smart, you shouldn't own any pistol.

Not exactly...

dry fire it, pull the slide back just a bit with one hand, indext the slide release with the other hand, then slide it off...

A glock along with all other guns are as safe as the person handling them. Never seen a car crank it's self and have a wreck and I've never seen a glock (or any other firearm for that matter) go boom without the trigger being manipulated either by a finger or any other foreign object that finds itself into the trigger guard. But know this, a loaded glock is going boom if you pull the trigger.

It's a world wide dumbest cop contest.

Note, that the one in the OP was enough smarter than the general population of cops to have been promoted to Captain.

Never hear anybody biotch about M & P 's, and host of other pistols without a manual safety. Haters gotta hate.

Even among people who are careful, the guns can go off upon being holstered, like say a cord from a jacket happens to get in the trigger guard while the gun's being holstered.

I went with a H&K P30LS, and yes it's got a safety.

this thread show the intelligence or lack there of of a couple people here

Rack the slide, drop the mag, and pull the trigger.. So simple to get out of sequence..

Per the headline - I would certainly hope so!
I pray none on that force are dumber than this cop! THAT would be scary!

Exactly! Pretty simple concept.

Some people just simply aren't capable enough to be trusted with firearms. They probably shouldn't be driving vehicles either. Hell, reading comprehension and posting on the Internet seems to tax their capabilities so I wouldn't expect too much from them in more complex situations.

The old Ford/Chevy moron debate again. If you can't own a glock, it's cause you really aren't sharp enough. I own both by the way.

A Marathon County sheriff's captain is recovering after accidentally shooting himself in the hand at a police shooting range.

Sheriff's department officials say Capt. Greg Bean was cleaning his handgun when the accident happened Tuesday in the Town of Mosinee.

I really wish they'd be honest about these negligent shootings. He didn't do this cleaning his gun at the range. The Glock trigger is to difficult to manipulate with your finger to not know you are pulling the trigger.

Since he shot himself in the hand here's my thoughts. He got the draw and grip out of sequence and had his finger on the trigger before he established a two hand grip on the firearm. As he drew the gun his finger went to the trigger and then he moved his support hand toward the firing hand. Unfortunately he was pulling the trigger as he covered his support hand with the muzzle.

Since the gun obviously had to be out of the holster to be "cleaning" it, he would have had to manipulate the trigger with his finger. Just how much cleaning of a gun can one do with the action closed? Wipe it down a little? And where was the range officer who allowed that kind of gun handling on the range? No one cleans a gun on my range. If a gun fails to function due to being dirty, then it is made safe, i.e. empty and open, and the range master will attend to putting it back in service. When I run a qualification any hot weapon is either holstered or on the line qualifying. If it's out of the holster for any other reason it is empty and open or you don't qual.

Sorry for the rant. They are most likely giving this guy a pass on his bogus story because of his rank. I'm not buying it.

Mart

I was right next to a cop--sorry, a police firearms instructor--who was showing off his quick-draw capability when he shoved his 40S&W Glock back into his holster with his finger on the trigger. Screw foreign objects, he forgot to take his finger off the trigger, and he blew a furrow in his leg and a crater in the concrete floor. On top of which, his quick draw wasn't really all that quick, and he couldn't hit the side of a barn after the draw anyway.

I don't shoot with him anymore.

So how would a safety make a difference in this situation?
He pulled the trigger on a loaded gun while his hand was in front of the muzzle.

Here's a hint (It's NOT the gun's fault)

I went to Gander's indoor range and shared a booth with a friend? He's an ex cop and now small jet first Off. Dumpsheet wanted to practice quick draw and both times got screamed at by the RO to stop. Needless to say I don't go shootin with this turd. He calls and wants to go shootin couple times a year. Funny how I'm always busy.

This is my thought.
What heck is the dude cleaning a loaded gun for. Stupid.
People can't deal with fault, so it's the guns fault.
He should be glad he didn't shoot someone.
Hurt is pride and his hand some.

Ask Plaxico Burris what he thinks about Glocks.

I've seen more ND's with guns with Safeties than without.

Yep.

I like Glocks but that feature is an absolutely piss-poor piece of human engineering. It plants in the subconscious the concept of routinely pulling the trigger without consequences.

Since most Cops ain't recreational shooters they may end up pulling the trigger to disassemble and clean it more than they do to actually shoot it.

Ya I know anyone who doesn't follow the rules of firearms safety shouldn't own one etc etc etc......

But, even the most careful humans are fallible, which is exactly why pilots for example, use an actual physical pre-flight checklist, even though they could recite the whole thing by memory.

Birdwatcher

Good call. I'd never use a suppressor either because they actually make gunshots louder.

I love the internet.

Cluelessness now extends to your knowledge of firearms as well...

Strange, but I don't recall anyone ever complaining about the lack of a manual safety on a revolver..... The safety on a Glock is the same as the one found on a revolver; KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER unless you're shooting something.

my dad God rest his soul, was a carpenter. He said to me "measure twice and cut once" good advice for the glock nimrod, check it twice. On the other hand you just can't fix stupid.

I cut that board TWICE and it was still too short...

Um, no.....

YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER AND PULL IT.... before you can take down a Glock to clean it.

Additionally, that Glock comes with a 5.5lb short travel trigger quite unlike the 8-12lb long travel trigger of a DA revolver. Neither does the process of pulling the trigger on a Glock give other cues the gun is about to go off as in a rotating cylinder and rising external hammer.

Cant readily tell a Glock is loaded either just by looking, unless one takes the time to peer through that little slot in the chamber, in good light.

Birdwatcher

Bullchit storyline by the OP. There is nothing in the story both in print and video that says the handgun was a GLock or any other model. The accompanying photo is not a Glock either.

Once again, "operator error" creates a topic which obfuscates the truth. Typical of the OP.

Nowhere has it even comfirmed the weapon in the above case was a Glock

Or disassembling it.

You have to press the trigger to dis assemble them, but you should drop the mag and clear the chamber first, you also have to take the slide silghtky out of batteryand press down on the little levers, and a convienient eay to do that is with your hand over the mizzle and top of the slide

Guess I should have read the rest of the thread before replying.

Um, yes. Doesn't matter if the trigger pull is 5 pounds, or 50. It won't go off if you don't pull the trigger. If the fact that your finger is pulling on the trigger isn't an indication that it's about to go off, then you really shouldn't be handling a handgun.... Yes, you have to pull the trigger to breakdown a Glock, but how hard is it to make sure it's unloaded before doing so? Not doing so can lead to unwanted lead punctures in your hand......

wildlbill59 has consciously made a false statement concerning the safety aspects of Glock pistols. The reality is that human error is the cause.

No firearm, no matter the manufacturer, makes an idiot proof gun. None.

Some firearms are more conducive to being idiot friendly. Some are not for amateurs at all...

Glock has a proven pistol. Those that like them can like and use them all they want. I'm happy for them.

I don't own one for the simple reason that I don't like "plastic" pistols" as much as cold steel. That's why my Colt 1911 has been my constant companion for decades.

It is always interesting when I wear it in a holster to have the people come up too me and ask me "Do you know your pistol is cocked?"

And that's exactly how all the NDs happen. Racking the slide before dropping the mag. Ironic how you said it's easy to get it out of sequence

The Glock seemed to work just fine. He pulled the trigger and it went BANG!

I wonder if police persons have more 'accidental' discharges than the average shooter.

I doubt it.

Frankly, I think the new gun owners that Obama spawned with his gun control measures hold that title. They don't have a clue what they are doing.

Police have relatively FEW ND's. Especially since they are around firearms and handling them on a daily basis.

Which is exactly what increases the occurrence of accidental discharges. With familiarity comes complacency, which leads to carelessness.

I noticed that, scary....

If that was the whole story, there would be bullet holes and dead bodies in all the gun shops, no?

my goodness how did we ever survive revolvers being duty sidearms?

^^^This^^^

You'd be surprised how many gun shops DO have bullet holes..... I know of at least 2 different ones that I was friends with the owners. If nobody was hurt, they eschew the publicity and never report it. I think that what does lead to a lot of the ND's among police is the fact that a lot of cops aren't actually gun people. They look upon their firearms as simply more equipment that they have to use in their job.

Few things funnier than somebody that is "pro-gun" explaining that a ND is the gun's fault.




Travis

We didn't. All the cops were killed due to the lack of a manual safety.......

Well, yeah. Nothing is anybody's fault anymore. Hadn't you heard?

Boogerhook off the bang switch. Pretty simple, really..

They walk among us.

What DErby Dude is really saying is that if you put a Suppressor on a glock and use "standard" ammunition, it turns it into very loud Machinegun

I never could get comfortable with a pistol without a safety. To me it was like carrying a steel trap strapped to my belt, in the set position..

I have carried Glocks though but more and more now it's the S&W Shield or the Ruger LC9s, both with safety that can be swiped off before the pistol clears leather.

I cringe every time I see someone cram a Glock in a holster just thinking of the possibility of a stick or other foreign object being wedged between trigger guard and trigger.

No, I am not a Glock hater. I own quite a few and pick up two more every time my Blue Label eligibility rolls around.

HK USP are better

Snake

You, sir, have been awarded 100 cross thread points. Well done

Thank you

Tell us more.

Does a Glock with a suppressor get even louder than a 1911 gets with a suppressor?

Yes cause it makes it full auto

I'm pretty sure when it's suppressed it gets louder and when it's full auto it shoots slower. I talked to a retired Army Reserve SEAL Recon Sniper at the range one day and that's what he said.

Yea, but he probably fidn't know schiet cause he wasn't a cook

I have concluded from this thread that cops are too inept and untrained to use Glocks. They should all go back to revolvers and not be allowed anywhere near a full automatic weapon.

If you can't understand the operating system of a Glock and train w/ it to the level of unconscious competence you probably shouldn't own or operate firearms. DD needs to carry a Glock 23 AIWB.

mike r

Glocks are about as simple to operate as any handgun out there. As long as you keep your finger off the trigger when you aren't actually shooting they're pretty safe. You do have to be careful holstering and make sure that nothing gets into the holster that could depress the trigger. Some like them and some don't but they do work well, especially in 9mm, which is the caliber they were designed for originally.

With my single action 1911 and the thumb safety on I can pull the trigger all I want and the firearm is not going to go boom nor when I holster it will anything coming into contact with the trigger cause it to go boom. Many of the polymer pistols have de-cockers and even thumb safeties as well. Glocks are just unsafe pistols especially for the neophytes. I would never own a Glock even if it was the last pistol on earth. After shooting a 1911 all these years I'm sure I would shoot myself with a Glock as well.

Why would you be pulling the trigger unless you wanted it to go boom?

The real safety is between your ears.

You don't carry, do you?

Actually, you can -- and many do -- buy M&Ps with external safeties.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't even own a gun.

Quite right... now is that the guns fault or yours? Think hard... c'mon you can do it!

I said nothing of the sort.

I never said anything of the sort either.

Wildbill59: It seems ignorant to me that you would jump to an anti-Glock conclusion based on an ambiguous news article like you linked to!
Ignorance is bliss - I hear some tell.
I have been around Glock pistols for more than 25 years now both professionally and privately and have as yet to see or hear of any of the many hundreds I have been around and fired alongside "goes off all by itself"!
I own and carry Glocks (note the plural) to this day, both privately and professionally.
NOTHING in the article you linked to nor in your "sensation" seeking post header gives me cause for concern in the least.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I've carried Glocks for almost 15 years, and have never had one discharge when it wasn't supposed to the pistol is not "unsafe". But operators sure can be

That was a parody of your theory on suppressors making guns Louder

I never said that either.

And I didn't say that.

And I know I never said that.

So you shot yourself with your 1911?

We know that you didn't say those things. We did.....duh.

But when we said them we were making fun of you, because of what you DID say about suppressors.

Not the gun's fault as such but the 1911 is much safer being a single action with a grip and thumb safety. Unless the gun is cocked it can't fire and when it is cocked it is locked.

Look I don't hate Glocks and people have a right, that I support, to own Glocks it's just that Glocks are unsafe guns and that's that.

If I decided to own a polymer gun and I have thought about it I like the FN FNX, possibly the Ruger SR45, or one of the Sig new striker models.

DERBY, this is what you said


A word of caution if the purpose is to reduce the noise of a rifle, most likely a .223, inside of a building one would have to use sub-sonic ammo in order for the suppressor to be of much of an advantage.

And this


A rifle using standard velocity ammo with a suppressor tend to be louder than without the suppressor.


Then you said this

Inside of a building the noise with suppressor is even louder.

And then this

I asked a retired military sniper why that is so and he said the suppressor reduces noise down range but blows the noise back at the shooter.

Glocks are no more "unsafe" then Sig Sauers, or DA revolvers

That's probably true. Because of the guns poor safety design it does require, it would seem, extra care in the safety area. It would also seem that younger people who have grown up with a plethora of modern pistols that weren't available to us old timers brought up on the 1911 would have a different safety mind set than us old timers.

Nope but I'm used to the operation of the 1911 a single action auto. I'm not use to the more modern double action autos that rely strictly on a double action heavy trigger pull for safety. To the best of my knowledge there were no striker fired autos in my day.

but im guessing there were loads of double action revolvers....same principle...

i dont care for Glocks but lack of a safety aint the reason....i just dont care for how they feel in my hand...

Umm, so you're saying the adage to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire is a new theory?

derby doesn't spread some extra dumb-ass on his pancakes this morning.




Travis

Yup and I stand by what I did say. There are a lot of you tube videos out there that back up what I have said. I found one where someone was firing auto handguns inside the house to see how load they would be and the guns were load. Hickok45 was firing a full auto M-4 5.56 outdoors with a suppressor and he finally put ears back on because it was so load. He also fired Remington Model 700 .223 with a suppressor and did fire that without his ears but it was loud too.

If all I had for experience was you tube videos I might be skeptical to but suppressors are now legal in Montana and I have been to our range when people were using suppressors and it blew me away as to how load the guns were with suppressors. Autos firing sub sonic ammo such as the .45 Auto can be very quiet with a suppressor but rifles not so much. It appears that a suppressor will reduce noise by about 30 to 40 db which will still put super sonic ammo well over 100 db which will still destroy your hearing.

A suppressor on a weapon firing super sonic ammo inside an enclosed area is not going to reduce the noise level sufficiently enough to prevent hearing loss or damage.

I don't care what you guys do it's your hearing not mine. I'm just trying to help prevent hearing loss.

Double action revolvers tend to have very heavy double action trigger pulls usually in the 12 to 15 pound range. My wife's model 34 kit gun has to have a trigger pull in the 8 to 10 pound range maybe even heavier.

I understand the double action trigger pull on a Glock is around 5.5 pounds which is pretty light if that's the case for that to be the safety on pistol. I would not want a double action revolver to have that light of pull in double action.

You said that a suppressor makes the gun louder than without it. Show us the videos DD.

You're too stupid to know how stupid you are.

That's not a new theory but having to worry about how one holster's an auto is pretty new at least to a 1911 shooter. I've never had to worry about my 1911 firing accidentally as I put a cocked and locked 1911 into it's holster. I don't think the Glock has a grip safety either but I could be wrong.

Blue, I just watched both of those videos.

You can distinctly tell the difference between a suppressed rifle and one unsuppressed, just as most of is already know. DERBY needs to not watch so much Hollywood


DERBYDUDE

Yes, the Glock trigger pull is standard at 5.5 pounds. However, unless you depress the toggle on the trigger, you can pull until the cows come home and it won't go off, the pull weight is insidnicifant, the fact that a Glock will not fire unless you pull the trigger is not

Just call up you tube there tons of them out there. To me at least the guns did seem louder when super sonic ammo was used.

I'm glad I'm too stupid to know how stupid I am because at 67 I still have plenty of hearing left.

Post #91752188

I must be extremely lucky them. Ive holstered/unholstered Glocks for almost 15 years and never has the gun gone off when reholstering...the gun isn't unsafe

I've seen more people shoot themselves and have Nd's with 1911's than anything else

Well I have to get going but I agree about Hollywood. Until I actually got near a suppressor I always thought all you got was a poof. I was surprised that hearing protection was still needed with a suppressor.

That's the problem as I see it the toggle gets depressed more often than not with stuff getting into the trigger area. That's never going to happen with my 1911.

Look I don't care if people own and shoot Glocks I'm just not going to do either because I think the design is flawed.

Yup I saw that and look at the DB levels. Still unsafe without hearing protection even if I'm wrong on it being louder to the shooter than it seems.

If I remember correctly, doesn't a Ruger .22 automatic pistol (Mark I, 22/45 etc.) have to have its trigger pulled before you remove the slide?

Nobody said you were stupid, I doubt there's more than one or two people that are even thinking it

Who is Hickok45?

A youtube super star.

DD, Not all of us that are 67 y/o are incapable of, or unwilling to learn.
I did learn more than 60 years ago to: open ears, shut mouth, pay attention to those who have knowledge and you can learn. It is never too late to improve yourself. Give a Glock 23 and AIWB carry some consideration.

mike r

I currently carry a Glock 19, but, to this day, one of my alltime favorite carry guns is still a 3 or 4 inch alloy frame 1911 (I'm particularly partial to Kimbers). Over the years, I've carried 5 & 6 shot snubnose revolvers, all appropriately sized Glock models, several S&W semi-autos, and numerous subcompact all the way up to full size 1911s. I've carried in my pocket, inside the waist, outside the waist (once it got more crowded inside), in fanny packs, belly bands, and in gun vests. Some had manual safeties, some didn't, but I never counted on a safety to prevent an accidental/negligent discharge. To do so is foolhardy, as any mechanical device can/will fail. The only foolproof method of avoiding an accidental discharge is to KEEP YOUR FINGER (or anything else) AWAY FROM THE TRIGGER.

I believe the average ear muffs reduce 32db. According to the video the numbers are similar with a suppressor.

Shhhh.... You're gonna confuse people with logic

derby is and always has been a fugging idiot.




Travis

Is he that one that shoots soda pop cans and knows everything about guns?

Yes

Does this equation make sense to you guys;

Glock = Box-fed double-action revolver

Ed

No.



Travis

Thank you for clearing that up.

Ed

You sure it isn't Glock= box fed loudly suppressed machine gun?

Isn't that what I wrote?

Ed

No, no, no...


It should be Glock = Fugly brick that goes bang.

Every damned time

I love the idiot's logic of a pistol needing a safety, so he can yank on the trigger and not worry about it going off.

It's all cause of those Loudeners

Hold onto your panties dude. The title was sarcasm. Of course guns don't go off unless the trigger isn't pulled except in rare instances.

I can recall two AD's with 1911's within a several month period in one military unit I was with in the late '60's. It's not the gun.