http://www.inquisitr.com/1541821/ebola-is-airborne-university-of-minnesota-cidrap-researchers-claim/Ebola is airborne, according to a new report by the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) at the University of Minnesota. Researchers at the university just advised the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) that �scientific and epidemiologic evidence� now exists that proves Ebola has the potential to be transmitted via exhaled breath and �infectious aerosol particles.�
University of Minnesota CIDRAP scientists are now warning both health care providers and the general public that surgical facemasks will not prevent the transmission of Ebola. According to the airborne Ebola report, medical workers must immediately be given full-hooded protective gear and powered air-purifying respirators. CIDRAP has reportedly been a worldwide leader in addressing public health and safety concerns and preparedness since 2001.
An excerpt from the CIDRAP report reads, �Healthcare workers play a very important role in the successful containment of outbreaks of infectious diseases like Ebola. The correct type and level of personal protective equipment (PPE) ensures that healthcare workers remain healthy throughout an outbreak�and with the current rapidly expanding Ebola outbreak in West Africa, it�s imperative to favor more conservative measures.�
The University of Minnesota report goes on to note that any action which can be taken to �reduce risk� of Ebola exposure should not wait until a �scientific certainty� develops. �The minimum level of protection in high-risk settings should be a respirator with an assigned protection factor greater than 10. A powered air-purifying respirator (PAPR) with a hood or helmet offers many advantages over an N95 filtering facepiece or similar respirator, being more protective, comfortable, and cost-effective in the long run,� the CIDRAP report also adds.
The working theory about Ebola transmission currently being uttered by the CDC and the agency�s director Thomas Frieden, is incorrect and �outmoded� according to the University of Minnesota CIDRAP report. �Virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract,� University researchers concluded. Background information detailing why CIDRAP believes the CDC and WHO are function under an outdated mode of thought when it comes to how infectious diseases are transmitted via aerosols is also included in the new report.
�Medical and infection control professionals have relied for years on a paradigm for aerosol transmission of infectious diseases based on very outmoded research and an overly simplistic interpretation of the data. In the 1940s and 50s, William F. Wells and other �aerobiologists� employed now significantly out-of-date sampling methods (eg, settling plates) and very blunt analytic approaches (eg, cell culturing) to understand the movement of bacterial aerosols in healthcare and other settings. Their work, though groundbreaking at the time, provides a very incomplete picture,� the report said.
According to CIDRAP researchers, early aerobiologists were unable to measure small particles near an infected person and therefore made an assumption that such particles existed on far from the source and airborne transmission could of happened around 3-feet or so from the source.
Read more at
http://www.inquisitr.com/1541821/eb...p-researchers-claim/#8lwJRud29R0rHEY0.99
Good morning.
Good grief Charlie Brown.
Not good
There is a reason I always have facial hair when fit-testing time rolls around each year. No good seal with any of the cheap masks means I am ALWAYS wearing a PAPR hood when dealing with isolation patients.
Fearmongering.
No scientific credibility.
There's a difference in expelled fluids that certain PPE won't protect against, and "airborne".
Fearmongering.
No scientific credibility.
There's a difference in expelled fluids that certain PPE won't protect against, and "airborne".
I hope you're right. This was on my homepage (Yahoo!) awhile ago. Not that Yahoo is that great of a news source, but there it is.
Fearmongering.
No scientific credibility.
There's a difference in expelled fluids that certain PPE won't protect against, and "airborne".
This is correct, but the fact is they referred to "simple surgical masks" not, say, and N95.
Droplet precautions are "airborne" in a literal sense, but are not the same as airborne precautions.
Having worked with some of the people involved with that study, I would disagree with your assertion that it is without scientific credibility. Can you specifically point out where the scientific method was breached in the study?
Fearmongering.
No scientific credibility.
There's a difference in expelled fluids that certain PPE won't protect against, and "airborne".
This is correct, but the fact is they referred to "simple surgical masks" not, say, and N95.
Droplet precautions are "airborne" in a literal sense, but are not the same as airborne precautions.
Having worked with some of the people involved with that study, I would disagree with your assertion that it is without scientific credibility. Can you specifically point out where the scientific method was breached in the study?
From what I read, there is a disagreement in what should be considered "airborne" with the CDC coming down on the side of the more liberal definition and developing protocol the researchers feel is itself not conservative enough due to that. The CDC itself has never recommended "simple surgical masks" but rather N100 respirators. They don't go as far as the researchers do in their exact recommendations but N95 and N100 aren't exactly the same thing.
Fearmongering.
No scientific credibility.
There's a difference in expelled fluids that certain PPE won't protect against, and "airborne".
This is correct, but the fact is they referred to "simple surgical masks" not, say, and N95.
Droplet precautions are "airborne" in a literal sense, but are not the same as airborne precautions.
Having worked with some of the people involved with that study, I would disagree with your assertion that it is without scientific credibility. Can you specifically point out where the scientific method was breached in the study?
Perhaps the failure the meet the criteria of "airborne"?
Airborne means if you breathe it you're fugged. Spitting to the other side of a room doesn't make it airborne.
That's what I was always taught anyway. But I think the media and the schit paper companies are using this disease to increase profits, so flexing the definition of airborne probably helps with that.
Travis
As recently as the 'nineties,Vets were claiming that Parvovirus could not be transmitted thru the air. A lot of us dogmen saw too much evidence to the contrary to believe them.
I don't know what their position is now since I don't rase dogs anymore.
Everyone west of Texas better stop breathing.
Airborne means if you breathe it you're fugged. Spitting to the other side of a room doesn't make it airborne.
That's what I was always taught anyway. But I think the media and the schit paper companies are using this disease to increase profits, so flexing the definition of airborne probably helps with that.
Travis
If they keep us frightened, we will tune in and buy more papers. It's really troubling to think what they do to us, especially since Hitler did the same thing to keep his people under control.
Anytime you cough tiny particles from your lungs are spread into the air. This why you cover your mouth and wash your hands when you cough. If you are close enough to the person coughing then you could breath in these particles.
My wife is an ER nurse in the Houston area and was just told yesterday that the N95 is ineffective at preventing Ebola. She has to go in today so that she can get tested for higher level PPE.
The working theory about Ebola transmission currently being uttered by the CDC and the agency�s director Thomas Frieden, is incorrect and �outmoded� according to the University of Minnesota CIDRAP report. �Virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract,� University researchers concluded. Background information detailing why CIDRAP believes the CDC and WHO are function under an outdated mode of thought when it comes to how infectious diseases are transmitted via aerosols is also included in the new report.
Hmmm. I've read through this post and the cited article twice now, and I'm not seeing any real "news" here.
The finding that Ebola can be transmitted by aerosolized droplets is not new. This was clearly demonstrated in lab monkeys during the Kikwit, Zaire outbreak in 1992.
The assertion that surgical masks are ineffective and that ONLY powered PAPR apparatus is adequate for healthcare workers is a loooong stretch. It doesn't even begin to address the spectrum of "healthcare workers" who must have some form of protection, and it seems to deliberately ignore the concept of putting surgical masks on
infected persons rather than healthcare workers. Again, this concept was tested in Zaire and was to a large degree effective.
The level of protection required depends in large measure on the level of risk. Healthcare workers in a triage setting (say, folks in the parking lot outside the ER) do not face the same risk as workers who are hands-on caring for patients with florid Ebola hemorrhagic symptoms. Even in the Kikwit outbreak they knew to have "spacesuits" for the people giving direct care for the actively sick Ebola patients.
I hate to accuse a research organization of sensationalism, but the U of M's press release seems to be exactly that. Maybe Yahoo's newswriters made it sound worse than the UM people intended... but you've got to expect that in today's world of "journalism".
Never let a [bleep] leave Africa, we shouldn't have done it then, and we shouldn't do it now.
remember the rabies example I provided earlier?
Same thing
Snake
cal masks on infected persons rather than healthcare workers. Again, this concept was tested in Zaire and was to a large degree effective.
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
Doc, around here, people were saying that you have to touch someone to get Ebola. The UofM was responding to that assertion, and pointing out that it is apparently easily spread in close-quarters as a droplet from a cough.
As usual, you are seeing a small fraction of the story and background sensationalized by the media.
The working theory about Ebola transmission currently being uttered by the CDC and the agency�s director Thomas Frieden, is incorrect and �outmoded� according to the University of Minnesota CIDRAP report. �Virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract,� University researchers concluded. Background information detailing why CIDRAP believes the CDC and WHO are function under an outdated mode of thought when it comes to how infectious diseases are transmitted via aerosols is also included in the new report.
Hmmm. I've read through this post and the cited article twice now, and I'm not seeing any real "news" here.
The finding that Ebola can be transmitted by aerosolized droplets is not new. This was clearly demonstrated in lab monkeys during the Kikwit, Zaire outbreak in 1992.
The assertion that surgical masks are ineffective and that ONLY powered PAPR apparatus is adequate for healthcare workers is a loooong stretch. It doesn't even begin to address the spectrum of "healthcare workers" who must have some form of protection, and it seems to deliberately ignore the concept of putting surgical masks on
infected persons rather than healthcare workers. Again, this concept was tested in Zaire and was to a large degree effective.
The level of protection required depends in large measure on the level of risk. Healthcare workers in a triage setting (say, folks in the parking lot outside the ER) do not face the same risk as workers who are hands-on caring for patients with florid Ebola hemorrhagic symptoms. Even in the Kikwit outbreak they knew to have "spacesuits" for the people giving direct care for the actively sick Ebola patients.
I hate to accuse a research organization of sensationalism, but the U of M's press release seems to be exactly that. Maybe Yahoo's newswriters made it sound worse than the UM people intended... but you've got to expect that in today's world of "journalism".
Thanks for your take on it Doc. It's surprising to me that so many thought that any mask was good enough when the supposedly fast-and-loose CDC has themselves recommended N100 level protection, unless I'm mistaken.
goalie... agreed, the media is not helping the situation here.
I'm currently re-reading Laurie Garrett's account of the 1992 Zaire Ebola outbreak. Interestingly, she points out that the haphazard reporting of the epidemic and public health efforts to combat it actually fanned the flames of panic and greatly exacerbated the situation.
That was in Zaire, where western "journalists" had to really work to get into the epicenter, so there were few of them. And CNN was the new kid on the block, and internet news outlets didn't even exist.
The mess we're looking at now is orders of magnitude worse, potentially. Panic is almost guaranteed. The degree to which it cripples the nation is the only thing we can't predict at this point.
Anytime you cough tiny particles from your lungs are spread into the air. This why you cover your mouth and wash your hands when you cough. If you are close enough to the person coughing then you could breath in these particles.
Yes and that's one of the ways the flu is spread and we know how many folks sicken from that virus every year. If this is the same as the flu, it has a MUCH higher mortality rate than most flu's with the same mode of infection unless I'm mistaken. That is cause for alarm.
EE... again, the level of protection must be commensurate with the level of risk.
If you're wandering around in Cowboys Stadium this Sunday, you really don't need any protection at all. If you're going to be working in the ER at Presbyterian, you might like to have an N95 mask, but you probably don't need it.
If you're an nurse or doc in Presbyterian's ER dealing with patients who are actively vomiting and feverish but probably not Ebola, you'll want a higher level of protection yet, but still not the level needed for people providing hands-on care for active Ebola victims.
In my little ER out here in the sticks, where we currently have a minor epidemic of viral gastroenteritis (vomiting and low-grade fever, sound familiar?) and a reaaaaallllllyyy low chance of seeing Ebola, we're going with a more moderate level of protection. But we're also educating our public... stay home unless you're vomiting for more than 24-36 hours, etc... and we've got equipment and procedures ready should someone come in with true Ebola symptoms.
This situation SHOULD be manageable with relatively little fuss & bother, but as I've been saying for some time, the golfer-in-chief and his minions had better get a handle on the travellers coming in from Africa and start putting some serious resources into eradicating the outbreak in west Africa.
The mess we're looking at now is orders of magnitude worse, potentially. Panic is almost guaranteed. The degree to which it cripples the nation is the only thing we can't predict at this point.
One needs to prepare for the panic as much, or more so, than use their common sense in dealing with the Ebola threat itself.
EE... again, the level of protection must be commensurate with the level of risk.
If you're wandering around in Cowboys Stadium this Sunday, you really don't need any protection at all. If you're going to be working in the ER at Presbyterian, you might like to have an N95 mask, but you probably don't need it.
If you're an nurse or doc in Presbyterian's ER dealing with patients who are actively vomiting and feverish but probably not Ebola, you'll want a higher level of protection yet, but still not the level needed for people providing hands-on care for active Ebola victims.
In my little ER out here in the sticks, where we currently have a minor epidemic of viral gastroenteritis (vomiting and low-grade fever, sound familiar?) and a reaaaaallllllyyy low chance of seeing Ebola, we're going with a more moderate level of protection. But we're also educating our public... stay home unless you're vomiting for more than 24-36 hours, etc... and we've got equipment and procedures ready should someone come in with true Ebola symptoms.
This situation SHOULD be manageable with relatively little fuss & bother, but as I've been saying for some time, the golfer-in-chief and his minions had better get a handle on the travellers coming in from Africa and start putting some serious resources into eradicating the outbreak in west Africa.
Many thanks for the info Doc. I've got plenty of N95 masks on hand and will admit to having just placed an order for 8 N100's. Sounds like I'm gtg.
Many thanks for the info Doc. I've got plenty of N95 masks on hand and will admit to having just placed an order for 8 N100's. Sounds like I'm gtg.
I just stay the fugg away from everyone...
No need to panic guys just accept that 2/3rds or more of the population in the US will die from Ebola and you will probably be one and you can get on with whatever life you have left.
I'm serious this virus will go through the US like a house on fire. There's no way to contain it especially in the large metropolitan urban areas.
Tim, Ive been watching these posts and seen all kinds of opinions. If it will go through the US like wild fire, why hasn't it done the same in West Africa, where they are more crowded, don't have, use, or know precautions?
I understand that it can happen....but why hasn't it?
DD,
I doubt seriously that it will be rampant here as you say. If it has failed to wipe out 2/3 of Africa, I doubt it will here.
And there ARE measures to contain Ebola. Our POS in charge just hasn't implemented them... So, it falls to YOU to take precautions yourself.
I don't feel very threatened at this point, being as only a couple of people in the whole country have Ebola, and I don't plan on swapping spit with any of them.. But, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and my ass in the air either.
No need to panic guys just accept that 2/3rds or more of the population in the US will die from Ebola and you will probably be one and you can get on with whatever life you have left.
I'm serious this virus will go through the US like a house on fire. There's no way to contain it especially in the large metropolitan urban areas.
I heard that if you bath in fluoridated water it will kill the virus and ...
Eating canned sardines will boost your immune system and ...
Blue tape covering your nostrils will prevent inhaling airborne particles and ...
At the first sign of fever consuming large quantities of scotch (with fluoridated water ice cubes) will knock the chit out of the ebola virus and ...
If none of the above works ... shave your junk.
Don't worry DD. The campfire has your back. You're not going to die.
EE... again, the level of protection must be commensurate with the level of risk.
If you're wandering around in Cowboys Stadium this Sunday, you really don't need any protection at all. If you're going to be working in the ER at Presbyterian, you might like to have an N95 mask, but you probably don't need it.
If you're an nurse or doc in Presbyterian's ER dealing with patients who are actively vomiting and feverish but probably not Ebola, you'll want a higher level of protection yet, but still not the level needed for people providing hands-on care for active Ebola victims.
In my little ER out here in the sticks, where we currently have a minor epidemic of viral gastroenteritis (vomiting and low-grade fever, sound familiar?) and a reaaaaallllllyyy low chance of seeing Ebola, we're going with a more moderate level of protection. But we're also educating our public... stay home unless you're vomiting for more than 24-36 hours, etc... and we've got equipment and procedures ready should someone come in with true Ebola symptoms.
This situation SHOULD be manageable with relatively little fuss & bother, but as I've been saying for some time, the golfer-in-chief and his minions had better get a handle on the travellers coming in from Africa and start putting some serious resources into eradicating the outbreak in west Africa.
Many thanks for the info Doc. I've got plenty of N95 masks on hand and will admit to having just placed an order for 8 N100's. Sounds like I'm gtg.
I just pull my ol' bandana up over my nose and mouth.
But...... I don't carry openly while doing that.
It makes the cops nervous.
EE... again, the level of protection must be commensurate with the level of risk.
If you're wandering around in Cowboys Stadium this Sunday, you really don't need any protection at all. If you're going to be working in the ER at Presbyterian, you might like to have an N95 mask, but you probably don't need it.
If you're an nurse or doc in Presbyterian's ER dealing with patients who are actively vomiting and feverish but probably not Ebola, you'll want a higher level of protection yet, but still not the level needed for people providing hands-on care for active Ebola victims.
In my little ER out here in the sticks, where we currently have a minor epidemic of viral gastroenteritis (vomiting and low-grade fever, sound familiar?) and a reaaaaallllllyyy low chance of seeing Ebola, we're going with a more moderate level of protection. But we're also educating our public... stay home unless you're vomiting for more than 24-36 hours, etc... and we've got equipment and procedures ready should someone come in with true Ebola symptoms.
This situation SHOULD be manageable with relatively little fuss & bother, but as I've been saying for some time, the golfer-in-chief and his minions had better get a handle on the travellers coming in from Africa and start putting some serious resources into eradicating the outbreak in west Africa.
Many thanks for the info Doc. I've got plenty of N95 masks on hand and will admit to having just placed an order for 8 N100's. Sounds like I'm gtg.
I just pull my ol' bandana up over my nose and mouth.
But...... I don't carry openly while doing that.
It makes the cops nervous.
There was an open-carrier in the Pittsburg, Kansas Walmart the other night when we were in there. I'm not against open-carry at all, but gotta admit he looked like a dipshit. He would have looked smarter if he'd have had a 1911A1 instead of a Glock. They were stocking up on chocolate, the ineffective N95 masks and 270 ammo.
I am just a dumb ole country boy, so all of this microbiology and virology chit is confusing.
Arguing about the subtle nuances of what is, or is not 'airborne', is funny. I'd venture to guess that not a single respondent has a degree in virology, epidemiology, or disease control.
If the chit travels through the air, and if the droplets or whatever are still carrying a viable pathogen, as far as I am concerned, it's
'airborne'.
I sure hope this does not interrupt the broadcasting of Encore Westerns and Gunsmoke.
Tim, Ive been watching these posts and seen all kinds of opinions. If it will go through the US like wild fire, why hasn't it done the same in West Africa, where they are more crowded, don't have, use, or know precautions?
I understand that it can happen....but why hasn't it?
The US has more open travel than almost any other country in the world. Look at the nurse that traveled on the air liner the other day that has Ebola. Now the flight crew is guaranteed for 21 days but they have probably infected God knows how many, we'll have to wait and see see. Look at all the passengers on the plane and they went everywhere.
There are only four hospitals in the US that can handle Ebola patients but only a few at a time. No hospital in the US can handle a pandemic.
Then we have the 3,000 plus military personal in Libya. If you think they are going to come back infection free think again.
Oh yes, the medical people know that the virus lives for about 90 days in male semen. If you think men are going to suddenly stop have coitus think again.
Look guys I hope I'm wrong but based on the past performance of this regime I'm not holding out much hope and apparently neither is the stock market.
DD,
I doubt seriously that it will be rampant here as you say. If it has failed to wipe out 2/3 of Africa, I doubt it will here.
And there ARE measures to contain Ebola. Our POS in charge just hasn't implemented them... So, it falls to YOU to take precautions yourself.
I don't feel very threatened at this point, being as only a couple of people in the whole country have Ebola, and I don't plan on swapping spit with any of them.. But, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and my ass in the air either.
See reply to Ingwe.
The US has more open travel than almost any other country in the world. Look at the nurse that traveled on the air liner the other day that has Ebola. Now the flight crew is guaranteed for 21 days but they have probably infected God knows how many, we'll have to wait and see see. Look at all the passengers on the plane and they went everywhere.
There are only four hospitals in the US that can handle Ebola patients but only a few at a time. No hospital in the US can handle a pandemic.
Then we have the 3,000 plus military personal in Libya. If you think they are going to come back infection free think again.
Oh yes, the medical people know that the virus lives for about 90 days in male semen. If you think men are going to suddenly stop have coitus think again.
Look guys I hope I'm wrong but based on the past performance of this regime I'm not holding out much hope and apparently neither is the stock market.
I take comfort in the fact that you are never right about anything.
Travis
EE... again, the level of protection must be commensurate with the level of risk.
If you're wandering around in Cowboys Stadium this Sunday, you really don't need any protection at all. If you're going to be working in the ER at Presbyterian, you might like to have an N95 mask, but you probably don't need it.
If you're an nurse or doc in Presbyterian's ER dealing with patients who are actively vomiting and feverish but probably not Ebola, you'll want a higher level of protection yet, but still not the level needed for people providing hands-on care for active Ebola victims.
In my little ER out here in the sticks, where we currently have a minor epidemic of viral gastroenteritis (vomiting and low-grade fever, sound familiar?) and a reaaaaallllllyyy low chance of seeing Ebola, we're going with a more moderate level of protection. But we're also educating our public... stay home unless you're vomiting for more than 24-36 hours, etc... and we've got equipment and procedures ready should someone come in with true Ebola symptoms.
This situation SHOULD be manageable with relatively little fuss & bother, but as I've been saying for some time, the golfer-in-chief and his minions had better get a handle on the travellers coming in from Africa and start putting some serious resources into eradicating the outbreak in west Africa.
Many thanks for the info Doc. I've got plenty of N95 masks on hand and will admit to having just placed an order for 8 N100's. Sounds like I'm gtg.
What seems to be confusing a lot of people is that surgical masks are not N95s, and even N100s still are only really N99.9s. The real danger with a mask of any kind is that it still allows the user to touch his/her face (especially the eyes as they're a great route to inoculate oneself) as well as allow airborne droplets to enter their eyes if they're in close proximity. The big advantage of a PAPR is that it prevents the user from directly inoculating themselves with body fluids. However, as doc mentioned above it's really a question of risk and unless you're a healthcare worker treating an actual patient none of them are probably necessary. You also have to realize the facemasks of any N rating require fitting and will leak if not suited to your face (especially if you have facial hair) so just going out and buying them because you "need" them is a waste unless you've been fitted for that model.
No need to panic guys just accept that 2/3rds or more of the population in the US will die from Ebola and you will probably be one and you can get on with whatever life you have left.
I'm serious this virus will go through the US like a house on fire. There's no way to contain it especially in the large metropolitan urban areas.
I heard that if you bath in fluoridated water it will kill the virus and ...
Eating canned sardines will boost your immune system and ...
Blue tape covering your nostrils will prevent inhaling airborne particles and ...
At the first sign of fever consuming large quantities of scotch (with fluoridated water ice cubes) will knock the chit out of the ebola virus and ...
If none of the above works ... shave your junk.
Don't worry DD. The campfire has your back. You're not going to die.
No worries on my part. At my age I have one foot in the grave and one on a banana peel.
I am just a dumb ole country boy, so all of this microbiology and virology chit is confusing.
Arguing about the subtle nuances of what is, or is not 'airborne', is funny. I'd venture to guess that not a single respondent has a degree in virology, epidemiology, or disease control.
If the chit travels through the air, and if the droplets or whatever are still carrying a viable pathogen, as far as I am concerned, it's
'airborne'.
As stated many times before, there are different levels of PPE (and the actual physical room a patient goes into) for "airborne" precautions and "droplet" precautions.
They both have a very specific definition in a hospital. The distinction matters, because the people dealing with Ebola patients and bodies overseas are wearing a higher level of PPE than the CDC is saying we need here.
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
lmao That's rich coming from you.
I am just a dumb ole country boy, so all of this microbiology and virology chit is confusing.
Arguing about the subtle nuances of what is, or is not 'airborne', is funny. I'd venture to guess that not a single respondent has a degree in virology, epidemiology, or disease control.
If the chit travels through the air, and if the droplets or whatever are still carrying a viable pathogen, as far as I am concerned, it's
'airborne'.
There's a big difference where the spread of the disease is concerned. You're not likely to be in the room with someone who was exposed to Ebola. But people are much more likely to walk into a room that had someone in there 24 hours ago; that's the difference.
Bloodbore pathogens can get into the air, but they're there for a very short time, short distance, and the pathogen typically doesn't survive unless it's encased in a droplet of some fluid.
Airborne pathogens either survive a long time in extremely small droplets, or can survive for long times "dry".
This is why a bloodborne pathogen can be contracted through aerosol when someone is in close proximity, but not if you are in another room. Whereas an airborne pathogen can be contracted by being in an adjacent room, or even the same building as long as there's a common air path.
If Ebola were TRULY airborne, you'd see everyone worldwide really freaking out right now. Hell, the CDC was far more uptight about Avian Flu and H1N1 than they are about Ebola.
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
Funny, considering I work at the largest hospital in the city with the second largest Liberian population, and, if we get a case, I am almost 100% certain to be in direct contact if I am working.
Fear, well, that would be refusing to go to work. Concern, well, that just might be warranted right about now.....
Another way to think about it...
An aircraft full of people, one person with Ebola.
Bloodborne - They're going to test everyone, but they're really worried about the person sitting right next to the Ebola patient.
Airborne - All people in the aircraft would be assumed to have contracted the disease and most likely hospitalized and put in quarantine.
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
Funny, considering I work at the largest hospital in the city with the second largest Liberian population, and, if we get a case, I am almost 100% certain to be in direct contact if I am working.
Fear, well, that would be refusing to go to work. Concern, well, that just might be warranted right about now.....
So your concern is a bit more justified. Most everyone else on this forum isn't anywhere near hospitals or Ebola patients. That's my point.
Regardless of how it may be transmitted, a HUGE difference between the U.S. & Africa on the speed of transmission across large geographical areas is the high level of mobility of the U.S. population.
The result will be that if there are very many cases here, it will spread much faster than it has in Africa.
I just cannot understand any justification in not stopping flights or any other means of travel from W. Africa.
And now we have 3,000 soldiers there who will certainly be infected to some level............what a waste & to what end?
MM
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
They've done such a remarkably great job with this one thus far, what could possibly go wrong?
Why, they have failed to follow their own protocols on Ebola that they advise other nations (Isolate, Control, Quarantine, Treat) by 1) allowing it to enter by NOT severely controlling/curtailing entry from affected areas; 2) NOT sending a team to TX immediately upon notification of a possible/proven case; 3) NOT quarantining off the affect area or staff of the hospital; and 4) NOT treating all exposures as likely cases.
Yep, we should all just sit back and let them continue managing this one as they have from the beginning.
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
Funny, considering I work at the largest hospital in the city with the second largest Liberian population, and, if we get a case, I am almost 100% certain to be in direct contact if I am working.
Fear, well, that would be refusing to go to work. Concern, well, that just might be warranted right about now.....
So your concern is a bit more justified. Most everyone else on this forum isn't anywhere near hospitals or Ebola patients. That's my point.
Considering the rate of travel of people from affected areas in Africa to unaffected areas (slow, on that continent) to the rate of travel of affected people here (like, say nurses) on this continent (fast, by plane), you don't have to be in direct contact with an area or with a hospital to be concerned right now.
You can almost bet that the number of officially reported cases will be lower than a snake's navel, for fear of showing any chinks in the fed armor.
Rumors are already abounding about local cases, which I'm sure are mostly just conjecture by gossipee types, but you can about guarantee someone with credentials will be sitting at the PR desk of facilities nationwide to keep any "official" reports at zero.
I'd say I am being a little tinfoiley, but you can make that statement after you see the �bamacare numbers, unemployment numbers, Secret Service prostitute scandal report, and the Bergdahl investigation reports - all due after the election...
Funny, considering I work at the largest hospital in the city with the second largest Liberian population, and, if we get a case, I am almost 100% certain to be in direct contact if I am working.
Fear, well, that would be refusing to go to work. Concern, well, that just might be warranted right about now.....
Stay safe brother.
I've got a niece that's a dental assistant in St Paul and frankly, I'm a little concerned about it.
You can almost bet that the number of officially reported cases will be lower than a snake's navel, for fear of showing any chinks in the fed armor.
Rumors are already abounding about local cases, which I'm sure are mostly just conjecture by gossipee types, but you can about guarantee someone with credentials will be sitting at the PR desk of facilities nationwide to keep any "official" reports at zero.
One must wonder about Patient Zero's family that is isolated and quarantined. Will/are the Feds using the HIPAA law to excuse not informing the public. Is the family infected and/or dead?
One must wonder about Patient Zero's family that is isolated and quarantined. Will/are the Feds using the HIPAA law to excuse not informing the public. Is the family infected and/or dead?
That's akin to Fort Hood being workplace violence, don't you think?
I just cannot understand any justification in not stopping flights or any other means of travel from W. Africa.
MM
At first blush that would seem right. But where infectious diseases are concerned, the number one factor in the spread is information and education. In places where the populace can be informed well and educated well, the spread rate drops dramatically. That's why it spreads so fast in Africa, because people are ignorant about it and continue their daily lives even after they become symptomatic and infectious.
I just cannot understand any justification in not stopping flights or any other means of travel from W. Africa.
MM
At first blush that would seem right. But where infectious diseases are concerned, the number one factor in the spread is information and education. In places where the populace can be informed well and educated well, the spread rate drops dramatically. That's why it spreads so fast in Africa, because people are ignorant about it and continue their daily lives even after they become symptomatic and infectious.
I'd not put the level of intelligence here any higher than there when dealing with infectious diseases. THEY are used to nasty schit killing people in ugly ways all the time. All we are used to is the friggin' common cold and every now and then a flu bug.
The open flight lines BS from there to here is suicide, and may well have been.
And now we have 3,000 soldiers there who will certainly be infected to some level............what a waste & to what end?
MM
WE are their best chance at beating this. We have the workers and the experts to deal with this, they don't. Their medical system has collapsed, so the only way we can deal with this at the source is to send our people and resources there. Not sure why we have soldiers there, that kinda sucks. But we need to send willing medical providers there to help deal with the situation or it will continue to spread and become pandemic.
If we stop all flights, then people will just smuggle themselves into nations that are flying, and either catch direct or indirect flights. By allowing the flights we at least have some control. By not allowing the flights, then people who want to get back to their families will start seeking other methods, and that will take much larger numbers of infected people to non-infected areas. If they come here directly, our medical system can handle it. The threat is actually LESS by continuing the flights. If we stop the flights, then we are really risking a pandemic when people start seeking alternate travel methods.
And now we have 3,000 soldiers there who will certainly be infected to some level............what a waste & to what end?
MM
WE are their best chance at beating this. We have the workers and the experts to deal with this, they don't. Their medical system has collapsed, so the only way we can deal with this at the source is to send our people and resources there. Not sure why we have soldiers there, that kinda sucks. But we need to send willing medical providers there to help deal with the situation or it will continue to spread and become pandemic.
If we stop all flights, then people will just smuggle themselves into nations that are flying, and either catch direct or indirect flights. By allowing the flights we at least have some control. By not allowing the flights, then people who want to get back to their families will start seeking other methods, and that will take much larger numbers of infected people to non-infected areas. If they come here directly, our medical system can handle it. The threat is actually LESS by continuing the flights. If we stop the flights, then we are really risking a pandemic when people start seeking alternate travel methods.
What a load of crap, KG.
The 101st Airborne is for killing people. They should be in Iraq, not Liberia.
If we were going to send anyone, it should be from CDC and NIH. I haven't heard that being the case.
Continuing the flights breaches CDC protocol, and all level of common sense, about how to stop an infectious disease outbreak. Shut down the flights from there to here (let Europe handle their own mess, as it's going there, too). Send in MEDICAL (not military) personnel to handle the medical outbreak. Where the F'K is the UN and WHO? This is international and those DSMFers have that jurisdiction. If they don't care, then neither should we. Ditto the African nations; they have direct knowledge of how to handle this disease (Nigeria, for example - oh, wait, they shut down their borders first... hmmm...)
The University of Minnesota is now retracting the tweet and associated information that led to the original airborne story saying it was based on a theoretical discussion and not necessarily factual. Yet another case of anyone and everyone trying to get their names in the spotlight and/or more money for their pet projects...
I agree on the medical people, that's what I was talking about. As for the military, I don't get why we're sending them, unless they're from military epidemiology. The two biggest experts on Ebola are the CDC and the US Army.
The 101st aren't medical epidemiologists. The CDC isn't going (and is bungling the handling of it here). NIH isn't going, though they eventually move the domestic cases to their facility just outside of DC.
We advise African nations on exactly how to deal with this disease outbreak and others. Yet, when it comes to dealing with it ourselves, we don't do one damned thing we have advised them to do (and they have proven that it works). Hell, Nigeria followed the long-standing guidelines to a "T", and their minister of health (trained at UAB) is now being credited with "Saving Lives - Millions at a Time" (yeah, that ought to frost some cookies) in that nation. Yet, we won't do the very simple things that he did in protecting his own nation.
So, tell me again, why is that?
Because we're not ground zero, nor are we a 3rd world country. We have a grand total of 4 patients.
I agree on the medical people, that's what I was talking about. As for the military, I don't get why we're sending them, unless they're from military epidemiology. The two biggest experts on Ebola are the CDC and the US Army.
There's a lot we don't know about what's needed in west Africa, what the 101st Airborne's role over there is going to be, and what other resources are being sent.
We do know that local military in Liberia, Sierra Leone and other nations are being utilized to maintain civil order, keep the
cordons sanitaires intact, etc.
The U.S. Army has more medical people appropriate to this disaster than most folks realize. They will need support and security, I'd expect that the 101st could be there to fulfill that role.
From what we know of previous outbreaks, the skilled docs/scientists working inside the contagious area are from all over the world, but many of them have background from CDC. Just because they're not immediately attached to CDC at present doesn't mean they're not affiliated with CDC.
We have a 3rd world president.
Because we're not ground zero, nor are we a 3rd world country. We have a grand total of 4 patients.
That's the exact hubris that got us any patients at all, and right now we only have 4 (that we know of). "We're special, and we're different, therefore we don't have to do anything that we advise other countries to do because we're just better than them."
That kind of thinking in a dangerous situation (combat, infectious disease outbreak, hazardous jobs, etc.) is the crap that gets people killed.
Good Lord some of you guys either have too much time on your hands, or are just little girls. Stop freaking out and let the CDC and the healthcare experts just do their job; the world will continue rotating. Buncha little biches.
The CDC is so f*cked it doesn't know if it's afoot or horseback.
The CDC just said you can't get Ebola sitting next to someone on a bus but you can infect someone sitting on a bus.
NBC just reported Emperor Obama is going to sign an executive order sending National Guard to Libya.
The regime is totally clueless as to what is up and what is down.
And now we have 3,000 soldiers there who will certainly be infected to some level............what a waste & to what end?
MM
WE are their best chance at beating this. We have the workers and the experts to deal with this, they don't. Their medical system has collapsed, so the only way we can deal with this at the source is to send our people and resources there. Not sure why we have soldiers there, that kinda sucks. But we need to send willing medical providers there to help deal with the situation or it will continue to spread and become pandemic.
If we stop all flights, then people will just smuggle themselves into nations that are flying, and either catch direct or indirect flights. By allowing the flights we at least have some control. By not allowing the flights, then people who want to get back to their families will start seeking other methods, and that will take much larger numbers of infected people to non-infected areas. If they come here directly, our medical system can handle it. The threat is actually LESS by continuing the flights. If we stop the flights, then we are really risking a pandemic when people start seeking alternate travel methods.
Boy you sure have drank the kool aid.
I agree on the medical people, that's what I was talking about. As for the military, I don't get why we're sending them, unless they're from military epidemiology. The two biggest experts on Ebola are the CDC and the US Army.
And the experts at the CDC are clueless idiots.
Because we're not ground zero, nor are we a 3rd world country. We have a grand total of 4 patients.
That's the exact hubris that got us any patients at all, and right now we only have 4 (that we know of). "We're special, and we're different, therefore we don't have to do anything that we advise other countries to do because we're just better than them."
That kind of thinking in a dangerous situation (combat, infectious disease outbreak, hazardous jobs, etc.) is the crap that gets people killed.
Well we disagree. I think your approach would accelerate the spread in African nations, and then eventually you won't be able to contain it in Africa.
I honestly think we'll have more than 4 patients, quite a few more. But if you think the US is going to get out of this completely unscathed even with a flight ban you're kidding yourself.
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
Because we're not ground zero, nor are we a 3rd world country. We have a grand total of 4 patients.
That's the exact hubris that got us any patients at all, and right now we only have 4 (that we know of). "We're special, and we're different, therefore we don't have to do anything that we advise other countries to do because we're just better than them."
That kind of thinking in a dangerous situation (combat, infectious disease outbreak, hazardous jobs, etc.) is the crap that gets people killed.
Well we disagree. I think your approach would accelerate the spread in African nations, and then eventually you won't be able to contain it in Africa.
I honestly think we'll have more than 4 patients, quite a few more. But if you think the US is going to get out of this completely unscathed even with a flight ban you're kidding yourself.
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
You're more than welcome to disagree with me, and with the protocols that CDC delivers to every other country when advising them about how to deal with Ebola, and a myriad of public health and infectious disease experts.
Flip this around: if this were any other hazardous situation (combat, highly dangerous job, etc.), would you be advising NOT following accepted and proven protocol as a means of dealing with the threat?
Because we're not ground zero, nor are we a 3rd world country. We have a grand total of 4 patients.
That's the count right now...how many by the end of the month? CDC predicted last month that the number of cases world wide could reach 1.4 million by January...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/world/africa/ebola-outbreak/index.html
Flight bans, travel restrictions, and refusing entry by anyone with a passport or visa originating in the epidemic zones would of been the obvious move.
The fact is, it would of cost mucho political capitol. The administration would of been blamed for trying to crash the economy with knee jerk Biden-esque reactions. So instead, they do nothing, hoping it will be a few cases and peter out in time for the elections.
You're more than welcome to disagree with me, and with the protocols that CDC delivers to every other country when advising them about how to deal with Ebola, and a myriad of public health and infectious disease experts.
Flip this around: if this were any other hazardous situation (combat, highly dangerous job, etc.), would you be advising NOT following accepted and proven protocol as a means of dealing with the threat?
The advice they're giving is for ground zero in a 3rd world nation. That's different from how we handle it. We're not 3rd world, nor are we ground zero of the outbreak.
You're more than welcome to disagree with me, and with the protocols that CDC delivers to every other country when advising them about how to deal with Ebola, and a myriad of public health and infectious disease experts.
Flip this around: if this were any other hazardous situation (combat, highly dangerous job, etc.), would you be advising NOT following accepted and proven protocol as a means of dealing with the threat?
The advice they're giving is for ground zero in a 3rd world nation. That's different from how we handle it. We're not 3rd world, nor are we ground zero of the outbreak.
You're right Kevin. We are vastly more important than some thirld world schit-hole....which is precisely why the protocols here should be alot more advanced than they are over there
You're more than welcome to disagree with me, and with the protocols that CDC delivers to every other country when advising them about how to deal with Ebola, and a myriad of public health and infectious disease experts.
Flip this around: if this were any other hazardous situation (combat, highly dangerous job, etc.), would you be advising NOT following accepted and proven protocol as a means of dealing with the threat?
The advice they're giving is for ground zero in a 3rd world nation. That's different from how we handle it. We're not 3rd world, nor are we ground zero of the outbreak.
Did you miss the part about that kind of hubris being what gets people killed?
Hubris only applies to those who can't handle it.
AKA, everyone else.
You're right Kevin. We are vastly more important than some thirld world schit-hole....which is precisely why the protocols here should be alot more advanced than they are over there
If we stop the flights, people will seek other method, below board. That will spread the disease in ways that are VERY difficult to control, to any number of nations, and can push the disease much further than it is now. That worsens the risk at the source, and everyone will tell you that the disease has to be beat at the source.
Relax, this is not the end of the world.
No need to panic guys just accept that 2/3rds or more of the population in the US will die from Ebola and you will probably be one and you can get on with whatever life you have left.
I'm serious this virus will go through the US like a house on fire. There's no way to contain it especially in the large metropolitan urban areas.
I heard that if you bath in fluoridated water it will kill the virus and ...
Eating canned sardines will boost your immune system and ...
Blue tape covering your nostrils will prevent inhaling airborne particles and ...
At the first sign of fever consuming large quantities of scotch (with fluoridated water ice cubes) will knock the chit out of the ebola virus and ...
If none of the above works ... shave your junk.
Don't worry DD. The campfire has your back. You're not going to die.
LMAO!!!
I'm screwed. We drink well water.
I did tell the wife to shave her junk, however.
The advice they're giving is for ground zero in a 3rd world nation. That's different from how we handle it. We're not 3rd world, nor are we ground zero of the outbreak.
The way I see it, if ANYONE has Ebola, it IS ground zero. Each patient has his/her very own ground zero when it comes to spreading/not spreading the virus.
It should be treated as such.
Whether we are a 3rd world country or not makes not a bit of difference to the virus.
Containment is all that will effectively stop this.
If there is another case of Ebola here, then someone wasn't contained or quarantined to prevent that spread.
The US has more open travel than almost any other country in the world. Look at the nurse that traveled on the air liner the other day that has Ebola. Now the flight crew is guaranteed for 21 days but they have probably infected God knows how many, we'll have to wait and see see. Look at all the passengers on the plane and they went everywhere.
There are only four hospitals in the US that can handle Ebola patients but only a few at a time. No hospital in the US can handle a pandemic.
Then we have the 3,000 plus military personal in Libya. If you think they are going to come back infection free think again.
Oh yes, the medical people know that the virus lives for about 90 days in male semen. If you think men are going to suddenly stop have coitus think again.
Look guys I hope I'm wrong but based on the past performance of this regime I'm not holding out much hope and apparently neither is the stock market.
Now what??? Libya???
The US has more open travel than almost any other country in the world. Look at the nurse that traveled on the air liner the other day that has Ebola. Now the flight crew is guaranteed for 21 days but they have probably infected God knows how many, we'll have to wait and see see. Look at all the passengers on the plane and they went everywhere.
There are only four hospitals in the US that can handle Ebola patients but only a few at a time. No hospital in the US can handle a pandemic.
Then we have the 3,000 plus military personal in Libya. If you think they are going to come back infection free think again.
Oh yes, the medical people know that the virus lives for about 90 days in male semen. If you think men are going to suddenly stop have coitus think again.
Look guys I hope I'm wrong but based on the past performance of this regime I'm not holding out much hope and apparently neither is the stock market.
I take comfort in the fact that you are never right about anything.
Travis
I'd feel better if Isaac would lay short odds on a U.S. epidemic...
You're right Kevin. We are vastly more important than some thirld world schit-hole....which is precisely why the protocols here should be alot more advanced than they are over there
If we stop the flights, people will seek other method, below board. That will spread the disease in ways that are VERY difficult to control, to any number of nations, and can push the disease much further than it is now. That worsens the risk at the source, and everyone will tell you that the disease has to be beat at the source.
Relax, this is not the end of the world.
Seek other method? Like what? Its a third world chithole...Mugumbo gonna ride a fuggin ostrich to the US?
They are quarantining and closing boarders over there. He'd likely get stopped on his ostrich before he even made it to the coast.
The measures that should be taken are not politically expedient, but that doesn't mean that they aren't the right call.
You're right Kevin. We are vastly more important than some thirld world schit-hole....which is precisely why the protocols here should be alot more advanced than they are over there
If we stop the flights, people will seek other method, below board. That will spread the disease in ways that are VERY difficult to control, to any number of nations, and can push the disease much further than it is now. That worsens the risk at the source, and everyone will tell you that the disease has to be beat at the source.
Relax, this is not the end of the world.
At the onset of The African outbreak, the only response our nation should have had was tactical nukes on the affected areas...full stop end of story.
Just as the response with the original turd in Texas should have been to isolate him and let him die, then douse his body with bleach and incinerate him. They knew they weren't gonna save him, why put our people at unneccesary risk
You're right Kevin. We are vastly more important than some thirld world schit-hole....which is precisely why the protocols here should be alot more advanced than they are over there
If we stop the flights, people will seek other method, below board. That will spread the disease in ways that are VERY difficult to control, to any number of nations, and can push the disease much further than it is now. That worsens the risk at the source, and everyone will tell you that the disease has to be beat at the source.
Relax, this is not the end of the world.
That's strange we can't stop people from coming here yet 3rd world chit holes have been able to do just that.
NEW HAVEN, Conn. � A Yale University student who recently traveled to Liberia is being evaluated for Ebola-like symptoms, according to a report from Connecticut's NBC affiliate.
Thomas Balcezak, chief medical officer for Yale-New Haven Hospital, said at a press conference Thursday that the patient was in "good condition" and remained in isolation at the facility.
NBC Connecticut reported that the patient was a researcher from Yale University, but hospital officials would not confirm that during the press conference, citing patient privacy concerns.
Balcezak said the patient had recently returned from Africa and had been monitoring their symptoms since their return. He said the patient contacted their primary physician as soon as they came down with a fever, and was quickly admitted for emergency care. Officials had not yet confirmed the patient had contracted Ebola, but a specimen was collected and sent to a testing facility in Massachusetts.
�We�re expecting that we should have the preliminary results to this test sometime in the next 24 hours,� Balcezak said.
New Haven Mayor Toni Harp told reporters that officials got news that the patient was exhibiting symptoms Wednesday evening.
�We hope this is not an Ebola case, and right now there is no reason to believe, but we are taking these precautions,� Harp said.
Richard D'Aquila, the hospital�s chief operating officer, said the facility was "well prepared to handle an event like this, adding that the facility had been preparing for dealing with Ebola cases �for weeks.�
The US has more open travel than almost any other country in the world. Look at the nurse that traveled on the air liner the other day that has Ebola. Now the flight crew is guaranteed for 21 days but they have probably infected God knows how many, we'll have to wait and see see. Look at all the passengers on the plane and they went everywhere.
There are only four hospitals in the US that can handle Ebola patients but only a few at a time. No hospital in the US can handle a pandemic.
Then we have the 3,000 plus military personal in Libya. If you think they are going to come back infection free think again.
Oh yes, the medical people know that the virus lives for about 90 days in male semen. If you think men are going to suddenly stop have coitus think again.
Look guys I hope I'm wrong but based on the past performance of this regime I'm not holding out much hope and apparently neither is the stock market.
Now what??? Libya???
Yup and NBC is reporting the Emperor is signing an executive order ordering a bunch of National Guard there as well.
A CORRECTION: I did confuse Libya with Liberia for some odd reason. My mistake. I should have said the troops were sent to Liberia.
Sorry.
If there is another case of Ebola here, then someone wasn't contained or quarantined to prevent that spread.
There's gonna be more...you can take it to the bank...
Once this guy Thomas Duncan became so ill he was vomiting & chitting his guts out, do you think he washed himself off with disinfectant so he wouldn't contaminate everything he touched on the way to the hospital?
Hell, we're not even sure when an infected person becomes capable of transmitting the disease in casual contact, but I suspect it's earlier than many professionals are openly admitting...with a 21+ day possible incubation period, I don't think this chit is gonna be contained as easily as the CDC originally predicted. I hope I'm wrong.
You want to trust the same CDC that let the 2nd Dallas nurse (the one with confirmed Ebola and being treated at Emory now) get on an airplane to cleveland and back?
That plane also made 5 more round trips before it was quarantined.
Google graphs of exponential growth. Guess how many cases there will be by April.
The dead guy in Dallas, Duncan?, was reported to have slept on every mattress in his apt. when he was sick.
Who does that?
The dead guy in Dallas, Duncan?, was reported to have slept on every mattress in his apt. when he was sick.
Who does that?
kneegars
The dead guy in Dallas, Duncan?, was reported to have slept on every mattress in his apt. when he was sick.
Who does that?
Liberians that schit themselves.
Apparently...
Travis
And now we have 3,000 soldiers there who will certainly be infected to some level............what a waste & to what end?
MM
WE are their best chance at beating this. We have the workers and the experts to deal with this, they don't. Their medical system has collapsed, so the only way we can deal with this at the source is to send our people and resources there. Not sure why we have soldiers there, that kinda sucks. But we need to send willing medical providers there to help deal with the situation or it will continue to spread and become pandemic.
If we stop all flights, then people will just smuggle themselves into nations that are flying, and either catch direct or indirect flights. By allowing the flights we at least have some control. By not allowing the flights, then people who want to get back to their families will start seeking other methods, and that will take much larger numbers of infected people to non-infected areas. If they come here directly, our medical system can handle it. The threat is actually LESS by continuing the flights. If we stop the flights, then we are really risking a pandemic when people start seeking alternate travel methods.
Boy you sure have drank the kool aid.
KG is a known Koolaid GUZZLER.
KG is a known Koolaid GUZZLER.
Rapsberry's my favorite flavor.
I have friends on both sides of the isle, I often disagree with both Dems and Repub's. I consider myself a free thinker, and I never follow the crowd. That makes me unpopular with members of both parties, and I'm actually quite flattered at that. After all, it was Dems and Repubs that screwed this nation up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit critical of the CDC, they should have been well out in front of this for hospitals here in the US. But haven worked in hospitals a few times, I'm not even remotely surprised that the hospitals didn't get it right. They tend to take the least precautions until someone gets bit, and then after that, follow the pack. And then there are some hospitals that are truly excellent and get it all right, but even then you can still have a problem.
THIS is the Dallas hospital being scrutinized:
It is ranked the fifth-best hospital in the Dallas-Fort Worth region and 15th-best in Texas by U.S. News and World Report.
This was before Ebola.
THIS is the Dallas hospital being scrutinized:
It is ranked the fifth-best hospital in the Dallas-Fort Worth region and 15th-best in Texas by U.S. News and World Report.
This was before Ebola.
Well then that's a sad statement on the state of hospitals in Texas; they freakin blew it. And it's a market economy, so I'll bet their elective patient census has dropped dramatically. Well, they didn't take it seriously and now they'll take it in the pocket book.
The Sky is falling,the sky is falling!!!!Bla bla bla
Rapsberry's my favorite flavor.
Kool-aid was invented in Hastings Nebraska.
http://hastingsmuseum.org/exhibits/kool-aid/the-history-of-kool-aid
Kool-aid was invented in Hastings Nebraska.
nebraska was also the deciding vote for the passage of obamacare. What a coincidence
KG is a known Koolaid GUZZLER.
Rapsberry's my favorite flavor.
I have friends on both sides of the isle, I often disagree with both Dems and Repub's. I consider myself a free thinker, and I never follow the crowd. That makes me unpopular with members of both parties, and I'm actually quite flattered at that. After all, it was Dems and Repubs that screwed this nation up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit critical of the CDC, they should have been well out in front of this for hospitals here in the US. But haven worked in hospitals a few times, I'm not even remotely surprised that the hospitals didn't get it right. They tend to take the least precautions until someone gets bit, and then after that, follow the pack. And then there are some hospitals that are truly excellent and get it all right, but even then you can still have a problem.
You fancy yourself a "free thinker" when actually you are a card-carrying member of the Kool-Aid swilling Useful Idiot Society. I know of very few on here who follow the crowd any more closely or harder than you regardless of how you see yourself.
You fancy yourself a "free thinker" when actually you are a card-carrying member of the Kool-Aid swilling Useful Idiot Society. I know of very few on here who follow the crowd any more closely or harder than you regardless of how you see yourself.
If you don't see a "crowd" here or a "hive mind" at the Fire, you're either a HUGE suckup (meaning, you're REALLY insecure), or your powers of observation are just non-existent.
JeffZero considered hisself a "moderate".
Liberals often don't like to self-identify.
Just sayin'.
Correctly
EV-D68 IS airborne. More people (read children) have died from it and been infected by it, by a GOODLY margin, than Ebola.
No one is crying about that.
EV-D68 is not getting the attention it deserves.
flu kills 23,607 people per year on average. as high as 48,000 on a bad year.
about ten times the Ebola deaths in this outbreak.
Flu isn't as 'sexy'. Most people have had a flu infection and survived.
Ebola turns you into a virus shedding pool of bloody jello that is capable of still booking a flight on travelocity before killing you 60% of the time.
That's the stuff of irrational panic right there. Now excuse me, I have to Google "hemorrhagic virus flavored koolaid".
Ebola may become Natures version of the "death panel".
Airborne!![[Linked Image]](http://www.investors.com/image/RAMclr-101714-ebolagay-IBD-FINAL-COLOR-147.gif)
Here's something to think about ...
What happens when flu season hits and people start showing up at health care facilities with Ebola like symptoms?
The "people" will be asking and demanding answers to the question ...
Do I have Ebola?
Here's something to think about ...
What happens when flu season hits and people start showing up at health care facilities with Ebola like symptoms?
The "people" will be asking and demanding answers to the question ...
Do I have Ebola?
Exactly. And do you quarantine them all? I was looking at our hospital the other day. It was built about 2002 IIRC. It's really set up for a tent city. Looks like a good way to kill off a lot of elderly and sick folk that would be sucking up bunches of Medicare and Medicaid monies.
Flu isn't as 'sexy'. Most people have had a flu infection and survived.
Ebola turns you into a virus shedding pool of bloody jello that is capable of still booking a flight on travelocity before killing you 60% of the time.
That's the stuff of irrational panic right there. Now excuse me, I have to Google "hemorrhagic virus flavored koolaid".
That's exactly right. I don't know what the mortality rate is on all flu's combined, but it has to be way under 10%. That's nothing compared to 60-90% which is what has been seen in Africa.
ebola gay
You fancy yourself a "free thinker" when actually you are a card-carrying member of the Kool-Aid swilling Useful Idiot Society. I know of very few on here who follow the crowd any more closely or harder than you regardless of how you see yourself.
If you don't see a "crowd" here or a "hive mind" at the Fire, you're either a HUGE suckup (meaning, you're REALLY insecure), or your powers of observation are just non-existent.
I don't much GAF one way or the other about the 'fires group mentality or lack thereof. It is way down the list as far as what the rest of the USA or world does. You're a status quo Kool Aid chugger when it comes to the MSM. Unless we're talking fixing a gun, you're wrong most of the time and seldom realize it much less admit it. It's just rich as hell that you see yourself as some sort of rebel. You're the poster child for a follower. You should definitely vote for Ralph Nader again.
The National Guard is prepared to set up outside portable triage, for pandemics, with the assistance of the other service's medical corps.
The National Guard is prepared to set up outside portable triage, for pandemics, with the assistance of the other service's medical corps.
Obama just signed an executive order yesterday ordering the Guard to Africa. No joke. I read about it in the Tulsa paper.
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