if we lose this election? Hear me out here. Hillary pretty much only has to win four or five toss up states and she wins most likely. If she wins this time, I'm not sure a Republican ever wins again.

Now, I don't have much use for Republicans but the future looks pretty much like Americans against everyone else and the Americans are way outnumbered in our own country. We've been bred out. A slightly less horrific version of South Africa is in our future.

I don't think the country as a whole can be saved, but I think parts of it can.

I agree, it's been coming ever since the Reagan administration.

Jim

You won't be allowed to secede.




Dave

That is immaterial to the discussion. The question was if you would be ready. And it will happen eventually whether it is allowed or not. Economic collapse will eventually do the trick.

Right.

Don't like it, enter stage left the US Military.

Not enough muscle? UN forces would be all to happy to step in and help.

The only options as I see it is sit tight, vote EVERY opportunity you have and hope the tides turn, or emigrate to another country. But what country is "better" than where we live now? As a gun enthusiast there are no freedoms anywhere else like what we have here currently.

The writing is on the wall though...how many years till we are Venezuela?

Succession won't happen...

Kansas - Cattle, grain, oil/gas
Oklahoma - Cattle, grain, oil/gas
Texas - Cattle, oil/gas, coastline
Arkansas - water
Louisiana - Coastline, oil/gas, controls the Mississippi
Arizona - Outpost to guard our western flank against the Kalipornians trying the reverse the Grapes of
Wrath.

If the Soviet Union can break apart more or less peacefully, anything can happen. I'm pretty sure ours will be more like Yugoslavia though. There is some serious bad blood building. Let it simmer for another twenty years or so.

Spot on.

No. I am not yet ready to secede.




Dave

Are you ready to lead your state to secession?

It's not exactly an individual choice.




Dave

Sure it is. People start talking about it more openly and realistically and over time, consensus builds. Then you just need something to kick it off. In the US the event will be the collapse of the dollar. When that happens there will be complete disarray and state and local governments will step in to fill the void. Some of those will decide they don't need or want the Feds. Why should should a state allow its crops to be taken and sent to feed people in cities a thousand miles away if it means its citizens will go without? Some won't allow it without a fight.

Our union is incredibly fragile. The emotional and cultural bonds that hold it together are being stripped away before your eyes. Soon the only thing keeping it together will be economic. When the inevitable economic crash comes, that bond will be gone as well and the union will actually become a millstone around the neck of states and regions.

OBunghole has done his work well.

Nice theoretical discussion, like "... How Many Angels Can Dance On the Head Of A Pin ..."

No matter how many say they are ready to leave ... at the end of the day there would never be enough to see it through.

And ... as stated above ... Big Brother in Washington would not sit idly by ... there would be a fight. Sort of "... been there ... done that already ..." and it didn't work too well for a lot of folks.

What might work is this: A Convention of States under Article V. of the Constitution.

See: http://www.conventionofstates.com/

I believe that everyone understands your frustrations. However, as Dave says, "It is not an individual choice." Should a state secede with a majority in agreement, what do you do with those that don't want secession? What do you do with those receiving government subsidies? And, the most important question, what do you do about the 14% of Americans over the age of 65 that are relying on Social Security? Tell your Mother and Father that you're sorry but they will just have to fend for themselves. Additionally, what do you think the stock market would do if there was a secession attempt? The world would be affected so profoundly that the government would have no choice but to send in the Army to enforce unity, just like in 1861.

Secession is an interesting thought but there is no way it can be allowed to happen. To prevent any possibility of it happening, we the people must get off of our couches and vote. If that happens, I believe your question becomes moot. If not, then the voting republic has spoken and that is what the country will have to live with. If we don't agree with that outcome, we can try to change it during the next election cycle or move to another country. Which I guess would be an individual secession.

The union is not eternal. It will happen eventually. It might be more accurate to call it a breakup instead of secession but ALL THINGS END at some point. 200 trillion dollars or so in liabilities that are due over the next fifty to sixty years tells me that we have put ourselves in a fatally flawed position.

I already answered all that. There will come a day in the not too distant future when the dollar is worth nothing and the only thing the Feds offer is a share of a massive debt. When that happens, none of those things you mentioned mean a thing.

Eh, I got nothing else to do. This house b itching thing is getting old.

Sadly, we can't vote our way out of this.
But, we must try.

No. You didn't.

1,000,000 like minded people can't do anything. They need to consolidate the power.

You ready to tackle that project?




Dave

When the government is worse than dead broke, there will be a power vacumn.

Yeah.

And then you're going to see warlords take control.

But that's not true secession. That's 3rd world chaos.




Dave

When it happens, it will most likely be Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas. Lots of the shadow leadership is the same. All three voted for Lyin' Ted and have ties going back beyond the USA. If you have an expanded version of this, you have quite a few states that voted 60% or better against Obama. They would make a good new country. All are in the south or west. West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Idaho and Utah.

What you're saying may be true. The goal would be to avoid that and transition peacefully. The trouble is, a lot of the political shadow government on "our" side have the same goals as the other side, which is to enslave you and take your wealth.

Free your mind and your ass will follow. You can't lead a horse to water...asses are smarter though.

There would be nothing peaceful about it.

That's fantasy.




Dave

No, you'll see some state governments come out AND THAT will be secession. Most countries don't have the dual systems we do. There will be chaos in some places and more order in others. But by the time it happens, there will be few to none on any side of the issue who feel any allegiance to the federal government.

That is why the question is if you will be ready. Doesn't mean you are going to march on the capital tomorrow. It simply means that you will cross that Rubicon in your mind where you realize that it isn't getting better, will not get better, and cannot get better under this system. If you realize that, then you'll be ready for something new.

That is the first step. The American Revolution built up for thirty or more years before it happened. The Civil War for eighty. But once enough people get it in their heads that thing won't work and that something different must be tried eventually, then it is inevitable.

Pffffttt. I've been ignoring authority and laws since I was five.

But I'm the minority.

Good luck.




Dave

I finally got that ticket yesterday more than two years after my registration was out, so I'm there with you.

I too, understand the frustration. My question is what about all the "Fifth Columnist" already here??? Take Texas for an example.

There's a pollo asado stand or taqueria on every street corner from Brownville to Dalhart, El Paso to Beaumont. Some have been laundering money for the cartels for decades.

There is still a vibrant reconquesta attitude present in the southwest.

So it will be a two front affair???

So will it be Texas or Cohuila e Tejas???

Not being a smart-azz just asking what I think is a legitimate question.

A very complex situation.

I think there will be ethnic cleansing like there was in Yugoslavia eventually. In your heart of hearts, you know that when the forces of which we speak finally take over the federal power structure completely, it will be unbearable for us and for anyone who thinks as a traditional American. These groups do not have the traditional Anglo/Saxon view of law and order that restrains us today. Once they gain control, they will begin to ethnically cleanse us under the auspices of the government. It is coming as surely as night follows day. It isn't a question of politics, it is one of survival. So once that gets going in earnest, will people fight back?

I don't know all the answers. They are unknowable. But they are demonizing white people in the US like the Germans did the Jews. You can't feed people a steady diet of that for sixty years and then put on the brakes once the minorities take control. They will want payback.

Amen...

++++++

Amen.

This!!!

Pit family against family. Brother against brother. Cousin against cousin.

Very bad situation to say the least.

Hillary elected, Hillary chooses Supreme Court nominees, Hillary court overturns Heller, Hillary laws ban all semi-auto rifles/shotguns/handguns..

Well, what comes next is rather obvious.

Empires ALWAYS become polyglot and they ALWAYS founder on the rocks of "diversity". We are really seeing that now with school districts having over forty languages and the like.

You forgot New Mexico.......

A lot of Americans think Arizona borders Texas, but I'm surprised an Okie does.....

That is food for thought.. Maybe form a union between the border states and Mexico and then change their government from within. The average Mexican citizen aligns more with me (in regards to work ethic, family values, God fearing, etc.) than the average East (and West) coast liberal does!

The cartels are a huge problem, but at least they are easy to identify and legal to shoot!

I'm gonna brush up on my Spanish..

The government that didn't want you to secede would pour money into Mexico/cartels and let them have their way from the south.

Which would result in two fronts.

Good luck.




Clark

I don't think secession will ever be necessary. I think the federal government will collapse first and it will be up to the states to fend for themselves. Like-minded states will naturally move towards unions among themselves. We've been in the decline stage of our republic now for about 80 years. With FDR, the populace discovered they could elect representatives who would give them money out of the federal treasury. They have continued to do so ever since, and that is something that no republic in history has ever survived. We won't be the first to do it, either. I don't think it's coming in the next decade, but at 45 years old I figure there's at least a 50/50 chance that I'll live to see it happen. I'm thankful I don't have children.

Yeah, you're probably right Clark.
Guess I'll just go to Montana....

Any American working towards secession is helping the communists weaken our country.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

If I lived in California, I might say that too. For the rest of us, not so much.

So your thought process tells you that if your "Team" can't win you should start to consider secession for your state? Does your state have the ability to operate as a nation? In other words do yo have everything you need within your "Nation-State" to function as a Nation? You sound like a 4th grader who was not picked to play kickball at lunch time.

I have said this for the past 8 years...Start running a candidate that can win not just appeal to the small slice of America called "Conservative" Your party is aging out and you have nothing to offer younger non-white voters.

THIS /\ /\ /\ /\

Don't delude yourself into thinking anyone will secede.
The only reaction will be (more) incessant whining on the internet.

Yes, my state has everything it needs to function as a nation with an area bigger than France and a population almost as large as Canada.

There are no doubt some folks in Chechnya, Georgia, and Ukraine who would take issue with your statement...

Boundaries/borders don't matter in 4th Generation conflicts.

But you're welcome to stay at my place regardless.




Clark

No.

It doesn't.





Dave

Chechens are Jihadies. Georgia and Ukraine have had disgreements with Russia as independent nations.

Absolutely it does. Oil, gas, timber, farm land, and international ports.

Thank you sir.

It doesn't have national sovereignty, and never will.

Forget the pipe dreams and stop wasting your energy on fantasy.

Examples include Trump ever being elected!

You got a fugkin' navy and an air force?

Because you're gonna need it.



Dave

Ha!!! If you think geography is the enemy, half the battle is already lost..here a chip....there a chip....every where a chip chip....old McDonald HAD a farm....eee...iii...eee...iii...oooo.

Forget your constitution? The states are sovereign. They are not subsidiaries of the national governments nor creatures of it.

Your fantasies all include COCK!

And lots of it!



Dave

You keep thinking that if it makes you feel good.

Didn't you say the other day that the Constitution was irrelevant now?

Or do you just make bullshit statements at any given time to support your bullshit?

found it:

I'll stay here in the northernmost colony.

It is irrelevant but sovereignty is a matter of law and not necessarily fact.

I think it's time for you to take a break.




Dave

By law the states are sovereign. Disagree with that?

In 2016?

Yes. I disagree with that.




Dave

The current admin will not seal the national borders. Our nation is no longer sovereign. What makes you think the states are?

Secede-in-place. Put the run on those commie bastards and make them vacate the premises.

The country can't be saved because conservatives are cannibals, and apart from gutting each other, they won't get their hands dirty concerning lieberals.

Once lieberals get the upper hand, everything will change nearly instantly. They will not give anyone a chance to regroup, ponder, or organize. They can't and they know it. The internet and most communications will be quickly abridged and thoroughly monitored, guns will be gone and possession likely a capital crime, rationing will go into place, old people will face genocide, as will staunch conservatives, naysayers, and anyone else opposing the agenda, and a brave new world will be in place.

But rather than doing something now, while we still can and very likely the last time we can, we wait for the trains to start running to the ovens.

Has the law changed?

No. Not at all. The Civil War never took place.

Have you checked on a navy or an air force on Amazon yet?




Dave

Says the retard that cries about Trump all day.



Dave

What about all the case law since the Civil War? Can the president order a governor or any state official to enforce federal law?

the problem we face now with any good succession effort is the carnivores in the world that would eat us up. think of mexico, canada, china and russia. maybe a few other's late out of the gate.

No. Not at all.

That's why the states do whatever they want.

They're sovereign.




Dave

Nothing gets past this guy. ^^^^




Dave

Its called dual sovereignty.

The Civil War was fought over states' rights; to wit: did states have the right to secede after they agreed to become part of the United States? Lincoln held the irrevocable view: it was a one-way deal; one you're in you can't leave, just like Hotel California. Keeping in mind that I'm trying to remember what I've learned better than 30 years ago in a 500 series con law course, I believe the US Supreme Court sided with Lincoln, which doesn't mean squat because the supreme court metes out political agenda, not justice.

Lincoln told the south that it could retain slavery if it agreed to remain within the union. Lincoln said that blacks and whites could not coexist. Lincoln had at least three plans to repatriate freed slaves. So Lincoln's war was definitively not over slavery. Lincoln was every bit as racist as was Jefferson Davis and Cecil Rhodes.

The fact of the matter is the Lincoln's war was 100% unnecessary. He should've let the south secede. It would have saved at least 1.5 million American lives. Within a decade, the south would've come begging to rejoin the union. The south was agrarian. The north was industrializing. Worse, because of slavery, much of Europe refused to buy southern cotton. The south would've been staved into submission.

In the end, Lincoln got himself a monument in Washington, D.C., and his mug on Mt. Rushmore when he oughta have been erased from our nation's history.

The die was cast during the Civil War: states have no right to secede. That's sounds awfully ironic since it was states that gave the federal government right to exist.

Hey, I remember than concept. Didn't we used to have dual sovereignty and a thing that was known as the 10th Amendment?

Oh.

Well then I guess I'll go back to having illegal aliens manufacture suppressors in my garage while I snort down this 8 ball just before I punch a queer for being a queer on my way to helping our governor shut down and outlaw abortions within our state.

SOVEREIGN!

In exchange for your stellar legal advice I offer an assist on building your navy:

https://www.amazon.com/2-4GHz-Remot...69730513&sr=8-1&keywords=rc+boat



Dave

We still do. The main way the Feds get compliance is by taking tax dollars from citizens and then giving them back to the states. So while they can't order a state official to do something, they can withhold that finding when he doesn't.

So, what will happen when the federal government can't do that because the dollar is not worth anything?

Nullification is already being practiced again as well. Colorado and other states bucked the Feds and legalized Mary Jane despite all kinds of threats and warnings from the Feds.

Yep, they're sovereign all right. Just ask Governor Faubus of Arkansas when he tried to prevent integration. President Eisenhower seized control of Arkansas National Guard. Faubus was sovereign as long as he didn't pi$s off the feds.

Dual sovereignty was erased from our nation by FDR. As James Madison admonished, fighting foreign enemies will result in liberty lost forever.

The SC ruled that you couldn't outlaw slavery in a state.




Dave

What will you do with your natural resources if you're prevented from selling them?

I think you need to go back a wee bit further.




Dave

This is easily my favorite thread this week.

Slavery wasn't the issue. The issue was whether states could secede. I believe that the court held Lincoln's view, probably because Lincoln probably threatened justices.

The weakening of Dual Sovereignty began with the Civil War, accelerated during WWI, and FDR erased it.

Correct. They ruled Tejas could not secede.

Unfortunately.




Dave

Ok.




Clark

Lincoln had to keep the Union together because several European Nations including GB saw an opportunity to take the South if it was allowed to break free. Lincoln made the hard decision to destroy the South because he felt that if GB took over the South that they would eventually make a "sandwich" play on the Union. Lincoln had tremendous advantages over the South with a larger population, central planning, telegraph networks, the miniball, and manufacturing advantages that overcame knowledge of geography, Southern ferocity and superior officers.

Lincoln didn't care one whit about the Supreme Court and rounded them up and told them what to do. Roger B. Taney attempted to force impeachment proceedings and Lincoln said no. He rounded them up and kept them in his pocket until the end of the war.

I took an oath to defend this nation (union) against all enemies, foreign and domestic and did just that for the foreign ones. Twice. The problem comes in defining, specifically, who the domestic ones are,,,beyond the terrorist.

Look folks, the rule of law went down the tubes with the o'bammy gang of thugs. The return to that rule wont be easy and wont be pretty. It will be civil chaos. His parting shot will be martial law.

There are sooooo many reasons to carve a chunk off and start over. Declare this government as corrupt and therefore null and void. It's really not a hard decision. Either surrender to controlling and corrupting forces or kick your way out. Our founders left over MUCH less than we deal with today. I think they would be shocked that we have let things get this bad without raising so much as a fuss. It all boils down to how many, in a given area, are willing to rush the door. A serious threat of this should bring the other side to the negotiating table pretty darn quick. They are counting on us to pay the bills, you know.

I already am.

Anybody secede yet?

I'm waiting for the signal.




Clark

There is no "serious threat"

The whining and complaining you see now is all there will ever be.

I've been hearing all this same drivel for the last 30 years.

If you think it will happen, lead by example instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

League of the South "Gray Book" crunches all the numbers. It is a very reasonable and real world possibility.

Ireland got their independence after several hundred years of tyranny and exploitation. The Brits had tons more money, tons more guns, troops, ships planes police intel people.

Texas can do it and do it NOW. If OK and others join they can do it.

1) Gotta get their gold back
2) Edwin Viera; re-establish a real State's Militia, divorced (like it should be) from the professional standing army.
3) Take a stand against the Feds and say NO. And don't back down.

It would work, it could work, it ought to work, and our founding fathers tell us this is the path to take.

You guys from Texas have a lot of bunny huggers in Dallas and Austin. You guys also have quite a few folks living the dream on government cheese who have made the move to Houston from LA via Hurricane Katrina. We had a rancher from West Texas in our shop today. He was a guy that believed in the old way. He explained to me that he shot three of his neighbors german sheppards when they went after his calves.

no

Still the accepted way here. Had a neighbor, that I do not like at all, come by the other day with a complaint about dogs chasing his calves. He thought that I still had Great Pyrenees dogs, which I do not, and one of the dogs chasing was a bigger white dog. I told Him that if my dog (a little white dog) was running his calves to shoot it, as it was within his right. He said the Sheriff told Him the same thing. Now, like I said, I do not like this man, but I did appreciate Him coming and telling me before shooting my dog, which was not involved. There is right and wrong, and then there is being a good neighbor. miles

This is cattle country and a cow-chasing dog around here is shot on sight.

That's not the old way.




Dave

... which is why we keep our rifles and ammunition...

Yup. If we knew who the dogs belonged to,we made a concerted effort to warn the owners. Heck, we all have dogs. I've even had to put down my own dogs for killing livestock. Damn hard. But our biggest issue here was with dogs that were dumped.

Indeed, amigo. Indeed.

I don't think Texas--or Texas + OK + LA, or any combination of states, for that matter--can succeed at seceding ( ) primarily due to economic factors, rather than political ones. Economics will drive the politics, of course.

The Federal government simply couldn't afford to give away our southern seaports and oil refineries, nor the Texas oilfields, nor the beef-producing farms and ranches in this part of the world. McDonald's is essential to the peace of urban America, and McDonald's sells beef. End of story. (My tongue is firmly planted in my cheek, here...)

But seriously, the oilfields, ports, and refineries are national infrastructure, and oil is the true money of the 21st century. The Feds can't afford to give that away... the national economy would collapse. Mexico, on the other hand, would look upon the Republic of Texas as oil-rich country that is rightfully theirs, and with the withdrawal of U.S. armed forces, there would be nothing here to prevent the Mexican Army rolling across at Del Rio and Eagle Pass and Ciudad War-Ezz and snuffing out Texan sovereignty like a candle in a hurricane.



Seriously? You read this stuff in some newsletter, or do you make it up on your own? Dude, you're s'posed to LICK crack, not SMOKE it!!!

Look at the numbers to start with: Blacks make up about 12% of the population now, and Hispanics 30%, give or take a few percentage points. That means, according to your scenario, the new Big Bad Fed is gonna exterminate more than 60% of the US population?

You say they're gonna do it "...like the Germans did the Jews." Listen, you need to stop reading David Duke's emails. In Germany in 1933, prior to the Nazi pogroms, the German Jews constituted about 500,000 people, which was only 0.72% of the population of Germany. It was easy to mobilize national sentiment against them, because most Germans were a) an ethnic monobloc, and b) not in contact with Jews. Most Germans didn't even know a single Jew, personally, in 1933.

You can't even begin to compare that piece of Nazi political chicanery to the insane scenario you've just proposed.

Besides which, Hillary and her ilk will never let any real power go to "the blacks" or "the hispanics". Rich white folks from the East will always rule in Washington, and they know they need hard-working poor white folks in the Red states to keep working to feed their insatiable need for taxes.

It sounds to me, Dave, like you never lived in west Texas. It would not only the old way, it is still "the way".

Need to note that Arkansas' and Louisiana's Delta regions produce A LOT of rice, corn, cotton, soybeans, winter wheat. Could produce more but a lot of fields are fallow. Arkansas also has oil/gas and controls the Arkansas river.

I took Travis's post to say the same as you...that its not "the old way," its still "the way" for his area too. I know that is still how its done here in rural 'Bama too.

Good post. Especially this last little piece:

You're 100% Texas.

This much is certain.




Dave

I know you are a doctor and I'm not trying to be argumentative but you do get much higher if you smoke it.



Dave

A Canadian transplant that's lived in Texas less than a dozen years knows it all. Priceless.

He was talking about drugs?

It's about time you admitted it.

Dude. You're not being argumentative at all. Let me talk to Clark, now, willya?

You rang?




Clark

Thank goodness. I was skeert Dave had finally pushed you down the well.

So: lick, or smoke? Prolly both, I'd guess...

You are very much correct. There is no serious threat. I never said there was.

I am quite sure where you would stand if such a move is ever made....and that will make me happy.

You're [bleep] high. It is coming. I didn't say whites were going to be exterminated, I said they are being demonized like the Germans solid the Jews.

It is more or less official government policy that whites are responsible for all the world's ills. Anyone with a brain will acknowledge that. If you feed people a steady diet of that, they will believe it. They already do in the ghettos. Now, if that continues, what happens when whites are well and truly the minority in forty years? If you honestly believe the devil lives next door, then you almost have a moral obligation to root him out.

Interesting reading can be had on secession and formation of a new entity right here in Southern Oregon, in cahoots with Northern California- It's been going on since before WWII. In fact, many agree the bombing of Pearl harbor killed the movement. However, we still have activity to this day according to this information from Wiki.

In October 1941, the mayor of Port Orford, Oregon, Gilbert Gable, said that the Oregon counties of Curry, Josephine, Jackson, and Klamath should join with the California counties of Del Norte, Siskiyou, and Modoc to form a new state, later named Jefferson.[6]

On November 27, 1941, a group of young men gained national media attention when, brandishing hunting rifles for dramatic effect, they stopped traffic on U.S. Route 99 south of Yreka, the county seat of Siskiyou County, and handed out copies of a Proclamation of Independence, stating that the state of Jefferson was in "patriotic rebellion against the States of California and Oregon" and would continue to "secede every Thursday until further notice."[7]

The state split movement ended quickly, though not before John C. Childs of Yreka was inaugurated as the governor of the State of Jefferson.[8] The first blow was the death of Mayor Gable on December 2, followed by the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7. Those in favor of splitting the state focused their efforts on the war effort, which crippled the movement. Coincidentally, the "state of Jefferson" was one of the few places in the continental USA to be the subject of an attack during World War II, when Japanese pilot Nobuo Fujita dropped bombs on the Oregon Coast near Brookings on September 9, 1942.[9] San Francisco Chronicle journalist Stanton Delaplane won the 1942 Pulitzer Prize for Reporting for his articles on the State of Jefferson.[10][11]

In 1992, State Assemblyman Stan Statham placed an advisory vote[12] in 31 counties asking if the state should be split into two. All of the proposed Jefferson counties voted in favor of the split[13] (except Humboldt County which did not have the issue on the ballot.) Based on these results, Statham introduced legislation in California[14] in an attempt to split the state, but the bill died in committee.

21st century[edit]
Jefferson is commemorated by the State of Jefferson Scenic Byway between Yreka and O'Brien, Oregon, which runs 109 miles (175 km) along State Route 96 and U.S. Forest Service Primary Route 48. Near the California - Oregon border, a turnout provides scenic views of the Klamath River valley and three informative display signs about the republic.[citation needed] The region retains this identity reinforced by institutions such as Jefferson Public Radio.

As of the 2010 Census, if the Jefferson counties were a state (original 1941 counties), the state's population would be 457,859: smaller than any state at the time. Approximately 82% of those residents live in Oregon. Its land area would be 21,349.76 square miles (55,295.6 km2) – a little smaller than West Virginia. The area was almost evenly divided between Oregon and California. Its population density would be 21.44 inhabitants per square mile (8.28/km2) – a little more than Idaho.[15] With the addition of the more modern Jefferson movement (Coos and Douglas and Lake Counties in Oregon, and Humboldt, Trinity, Shasta, Lassen, Mendocino, Lake, Tehama, Plumas, Glenn, Butte, Colusa, Sierra, Sutter County, Yuba, Nevada, Placer and El Dorado Counties in California), the population as of the 2010 Census would be 2,313,958, making it the 36th most populous state in the US.

In 1989, KSOR, the National Public Radio member station based at Southern Oregon University in Ashland, near Medford, rebranded itself as Jefferson Public Radio. It had built a massive network of affiliated radio stations over the previous decade, and the network's management had decided to promote its service area as generally coextensive with the original State of Jefferson land region.[16]

The recent movement for statehood started on September 3, 2013, when the Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors voted 4–1 in favor of withdrawal from California to form a proposed state named Jefferson.[17][18][19] The proposal was joined by the Modoc County Board of Supervisors (September 24)[20] and Glenn County Board of Supervisors (January 21, 2014).[21][22] On April 15, 2014 Yuba County supervisors joined the State of Jefferson movement to separate from California and create a new state of Jefferson.[23] On July 15, 2014 the Tehama County Board of Supervisors voted unanimously to adopt a resolution supporting the declaration of withdrawal from California[24] based on an advisory vote taken on June 6, 2014 where the public voted 56% to 44% in favor of splitting the state.[25] On July 22, 2014 the Board of Supervisors of Sutter County unanimously adopted a resolution supporting a declaration and petition to the Legislature to withdraw from California to redress a lack of representation.[26] On March 3, 2015, Lake County supervisors voted 3-2[27][28] to submit the question of secession to voters and on March 17, Lassen County supervisors made a similar declaration[29] that also has the voters deciding in 2016.[30] The Jefferson Declaration Committee is reportedly aiming to get at least 12 counties in support.[17]

On October 24, 2014, Modoc and Siskiyou Counties delivered their declarations[31] for independence from the state of California to the California Secretary of State's office. On January 15, 2015, three more counties, Glenn, Tehama, and Yuba, submitted their official declarations as well.[32]

The current revival is based almost entirely in California.[33] Although some individual residents in Oregon have lobbied for the movement, no county government in that state has endorsed the proposal to date.[34] As of January 2016, 21 northern California counties have sent a declaration or have approved to send a declaration to the State of California with their intent of leaving the state and forming the State of Jefferson.[35]


Flag and seal[edit]
The field of the flag is green, and the charge is the Seal of the State of Jefferson: a gold mining pan with the words "The Great Seal Of State Of Jefferson" engraved into the lip, and two Xs askew of each other.[citation needed] The two Xs are known as the "Double Cross" and signify the two regions' "sense of abandonment" from the central state governments, in both Southern Oregon and Northern California.[35]

Yet another REMF.

we going to have some of those hot, sleazy hippy chicks in our new state? this will have an effect on my decision.