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Unless it's next to a trophy buck, it's bang flop.
If I've got a firearm, coyotes never get a pass.
We tell anyone hunting with us "If you see a coyote, you're no longer deer hunting, you're coyote hunting, and are expected to kill it"
Unless I'm in the middle of a stalk, they get smoked.




Dave
I never pass a shot on a coyote.
I skip the Shovel and Shut up part. grin

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Originally Posted by Pugs
I skip the Shovel and Shut up part. grin



Go straight to the head on a pike part?
Dead coyote
Plenty of opportunities for deer in my area
I enjoy watching it.
Dead coyote.

One of the nicest deer I've taken was after killing a coyote on the way to my stand..
I only get 1 week a year to deer hunt. The coyotes get a pass 75% of the time during that week.
Not head on a pike, but been known to do it this way before. This one was shot while deer hunting.

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Shoot them and I carry a call in my pocket for when the occasion pops up.
Flatten the coyote every time.
Where I deer hunt, my brother hunts coyotes from a plane with a shotgun. He says there is a coyote every square mile, but we do not usually see them on the ground, except dead hanging on a rancher's fence or in a big pile dead when the kid's annual round them up with snowmobiles or in a pile dead in the back of a trapper's truck.

I see one alive on the ground every few years, but I hate to fire a shot at a coyote if anyone else is with me and hunting for antelope, deer, or elk.

But if I am by myself I will shoot at the coyote.

If I see a coyote any time, my first thought is to kill it. Period.
I shoot suppressed as well, so don't worry near as much about the sound as I used to. Sure, you can still hear it for a ways, but the sound doesn't carry for miles either.
I don't shoot coyotes when deer hunting except when fur prices are high or I feel like shooting a coyote.

Years ago when coyotes were sky high money I hunted the last day of mule deer season with an older friend who was a crotchety pro wolfer, and his son-n-law. We wanted meat and he forbade his son-in-law and me to shoot a coyote unless it was a sure thing shot. As it got light I was hiking up a pine timbered ridge and spotted a pair of coyotes in a pasture far below. Too far. Not a good place to call. Kept climbing.

I came to an ideal calling ambush. Hmmm... Called with my old Weems and both coyotes disappeared. A few minutes later they both showed up 75 yards below me in a steep meadow. Not a sure thing. They came on and a third coyote joined them. At 15 feet I decided that this was pretty close to a sure thing and shot two of them.

I've shot them and not shot them. One day still hunting deer I paused on a timbered bench and while I stood there a coyote walked past within 20 feet of me. I let it go, then regretted it because coyotes have been hard on fawns in that area. About that time its mate came along following the lead coyote's tracks. Bang.
Kill them on sight if i don't miss. ED k
Scorecard 2016:

1- 4 point Muley
2- coyotes
Called this one in while looking for deer the previous weekend.

He got Trumped.

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Same day. Later in the afternoon. He was out catching some sun.

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I will shoot them especially if I haven't seen any deer. Bang/flop a coyote in our area and the deer come out to see what happened almost every time. I have no clue as to why.
I'll kill them anytime I see them.
If I have a shot...
Bang! Deer hunt suspended.
I`ve had same experience with deer being curious and showing up shortly after I had downed a coyote.
The noise doesn't seem to bother the deer
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Last year, about a half-hour before I shot my deer, I shot a mangy litrle coyote. I probably did him a favor.

I NEVER pass up a shot on a coyote. Deer don't get nearly as frightened by a rifle shot as some folks presume.
He's dusted if I see one. If coyote is in the area then there's rarely deer in the immediate vicinity so I don't feel I'm hurting my hunt by shooting one. I have seen deer a few minutes after killing a coyote, so it doesn't seem to mess up the hunt if I shoot one.
Originally Posted by joes64gto
I`ve had same experience with deer being curious and showing up shortly after I had downed a coyote.


The coyote / deer has happened to me too. Shooting seems to make them nervous but curious. Also last time in Alaska, I dropped a bull moose. Just as I got my hands into the mooses guts, I looked up and about 200 yds away stood a very nice caribou watching me. I rinsed my hands picked up my rifle and then had two big animals to clean and debone. I won't make that mistake again. I know the caribou had to have heard my two shots at the moose
Used to kill everyone I could
Now I just watch them.

Unless I am going to eat an animal or it is trying to Bite me
It gets a pass.

The way I see things anymore I am not going to kill something and just let it lay.
Yea that includes snakes.

By the way I am 56 and have been hunting since I was 10.
Whether deer hunting with rifle or bow, I will take any coyote in sight. But I prefer t call them.
I'll sometimes hesitate if it's ML season, because I hate having to clean those nasty bastards. Muzzleloader, not coyote..
Originally Posted by bcraig
Used to kill everyone I could
Now I just watch them.

Unless I am going to eat an animal or it is trying to Bite me
It gets a pass.

The way I see things anymore I am not going to kill something and just let it lay.
Yea that includes snakes.



Yep. Plus one.
It commits Seppuku!!
Guess that includes roaches too? How about ants? Does a coyote have a great right to life than a yellow jacket?
Just kill the [bleep].

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If I am on a stand deer hunting they are left alone. If I am about to get up and leave anyway I'll shoot them.
I've passed several while on my stand, but if I see them when I'm walking in or out, it's bye bye. From now on, though, I've decided that if I see one at any time and I have my rifle, it's bang time.
I enjoy putting up fur so I only kill en in Nov. and Dec.
The rest of the year they get a pass.
I seldom hunt Deer any more anyway but calling Coyotes is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on IMO.

Coyotes don't do half the chit people say they do but if others want to kill em, leave em lay, and then justify it by thinking they're saving wildlife and stock it's none of my concern. One things for sure, we'll never run out of em.

Flame suit on....fire at will...
Wierdest yote kill of mine -

5 years ago I was deer hunting, and a flock of 30 or so Turkey were out 150 yards into a corn field near my stand. I was film them with a video camera, and all of a sudden 4-5 big tom's peel off to the right on a semi-fast run. The hooked around and started moving along the edge of the field which was 25 yards from my stand.

Then I saw a yote was in front of them and they were walking him out or at least staying. 10 yard from him but somewhat herding him. When the yote was directly in front of my stand I anchored him with my 260, boy the turkeys didn't know what to think... Pretty funny.

When hunting elk or deer,that is all I shoot.I'm not going to blow the chance on spooking game,no matter how small a chance it is.
If I am on the ranch or adjacent properties where I hunt antelope and the owner says kill any coyote I see, I do it.
Originally Posted by FieldGrade

Coyotes don't do half the chit people say they do but if others want to kill em, leave em lay, and then justify it by thinking they're saving wildlife and stock it's none of my concern. One things for sure, we'll never run out of em.


Studies I've read suggest they actually help bird numbers. I justify wacking them because like you said it's fun as hell. Never saw an area that had lots of coyotes that didn't have a lot of deer too.
Originally Posted by Snake River Marksman
If I've got a firearm, coyotes never get a pass.


soooo very true............
I focus on the cross hairs and shoot the coyote.
Originally Posted by Crow hunter
He's dusted if I see one. If coyote is in the area then there's rarely deer in the immediate vicinity so I don't feel I'm hurting my hunt by shooting one. I have seen deer a few minutes after killing a coyote, so it doesn't seem to mess up the hunt if I shoot one.


I had the opposite happen to me. I shot an 8 pt. with the muzzle loader and the deer ran into the woods and crashed. Out runs the yote and stops in front of me at 20 yards. He didn't know I was there and hung around a little too long and let me reload.

We just started getting yotes in the past 10 years or so. It seems as though they've caused the does to leave my area.

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Coyotes like to hunt turkey's; and so do I:

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This one got wind of some fresh pork after I shot this pig on stand:

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I shot a coyote and then shot a deer within about 30 seconds last year. Shots don't seem to bother deer at all most of the time.
I love calling and trapping them, but dont get too giddy about chance encounters anymore.
Usta shoot em, now I find it more enjoyable to watch them, especially when they have no idea your there.
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
I enjoy watching it.

Me too. One 'yote more or less means nothing. One deer in my freezer means something, something really good. I can hunt coyotes any time but most years I have only a couple, like 2 or 4, days to hunt deer.

(But I did learn to not mention I saw one to the other guys. laugh )
Shoot him!!
If I'm not hunting it, I don't shoot it.

Everything that's not on my hunt plan gets filed away as nature at its best. Don't blame anyone for shooting them, but to me, they're just wild dogs doing wild dog things.

If we had a lot of wild pigs, I might make an exception for them.
Shoot the damn thing.
Every coyote killed saves many deer.
Coyotes don't get a pass here on our Ranch, or the large Hill Country ranch I manage. Neither do hogs. Both get shot on sight.
We've got so many deer, that I can shoot one anytime of the day. Rarely do I even have to get out of the truck, if I'm shooting for meat.
Originally Posted by TBREW401
Shoot the damn thing.
Every coyote killed saves many deer.

On the other hand too many deer can be as big a problem. There are plenty where I usually hunt and anterless permits (based on herd surveys) are plentiful. Actually one of the last farmers I talked to (invited in for coffee when taking a break from the hunt) complained about crop damage from too many deer.
Shoot 'em.
I kinda like calling and shooting them the end of December and January, more times than not they win the contest. When deer hunting in November they get a pass.
Let them pass. Shot a small 3 point Mule Deer shortly after seeing a coyote run off a couple of weeks ago. Second time this has happened.

I shoot plenty other times of the year when we are hunting and calling for them.
I do let young yotes go.. if it looks like anything an adult there is no hesitation what so ever
Coyotes never get a pass from me.

I hear them most any evening right before dark, but usually only see maybe one or two per year.
If you live in an orchard we're on the same team. Coyotes and me.

See deer all over all the time. Can't kill enough of them.

Same with squirrels.........knock down 5 peaches and carry away one.

And that is just when you cruise thru.
I'm not of the theory that a good snake is a dead snake. Same goes for varmints.

When they are to many we shoot some.

In the meantime some of the most fun I've spent is watching them mouse.

Just killing every varmint you see doesn't work for me. But YMMV.
Nice
I love coyotes, but I also love shooting them.. Watched one for about 15 min. this evening catching mice.. It was a fun deal.. He got a pass because he was in a herd of cows.. Maybe tomorrow.. I have shot several bucks after shooting or shooting at coyotes..
Originally Posted by rost495
I'm not of the theory that a good snake is a dead snake. Same goes for varmints.

When they are to many we shoot some.

In the meantime some of the most fun I've spent is watching them mouse.

Just killing every varmint you see doesn't work for me. But YMMV.


Pretty much the same with me.I have come to the age that I don't need to kill everything that moves out there
BOOOMMMMM!
Display the carcass on the fence of a well traveled road for all liberals to see. GW

PS. Figure I am saving the lives of local quail, turkey, and domestic pets. Unfortunately they don't limit their meals to mice and rats. They seem to flourish here even with a shoot on sight policy of most farmers.

I've never understood the hanging of coyotes from a four strand.

Is that a tradition thing? It seemed to be common in Texas but I've never seen it here that I can recall.




Dave
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by rost495
I'm not of the theory that a good snake is a dead snake. Same goes for varmints.

When they are to many we shoot some.

In the meantime some of the most fun I've spent is watching them mouse.

Just killing every varmint you see doesn't work for me. But YMMV.


Pretty much the same with me.I have come to the age that I don't need to kill everything that moves out there


At what age does that happen?




Dave
I don't get it here either. On our lease the cyanide gunners hang em from mesquite trees. I suspect to show the owner they are actually accomplishing something. But if I was a trapper and you didn't take my word, we wouldn't be working together... no need to hang anything.

Although this weekend they had one hung with a lone star light bottle in his mouth.. it did get a chuckle from me, as stupid as I think hanging is.
Originally Posted by deflave
I've never understood the hanging of coyotes from a four strand.

Is that a tradition thing? It seemed to be common in Texas but I've never seen it here that I can recall.
Dave


Old time Ranchers thought that it deterred other coyotes from crossing into their property.
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by rost495
I'm not of the theory that a good snake is a dead snake. Same goes for varmints.

When they are to many we shoot some.

In the meantime some of the most fun I've spent is watching them mouse.

Just killing every varmint you see doesn't work for me. But YMMV.


Pretty much the same with me.I have come to the age that I don't need to kill everything that moves out there


That's something I did miss - we have way, way too many yotes where I hunt.. in places that don't have yotes i watch them too.

A few years back a pack of yotes tried to drive me off a deer I was gutting in the dark even though I had my truck headlights shinning on the deer in the middle of a corn field.
The place is hard to access without the yotes knowing it - so it's definitely shoot'em when you see them there. If it was closer I may trap, but that isn't an option.
interesting.

Lots of old timers thought culls were young deer and never shoot a doe either. Heck there is still more of that mentality out there than one would think.

I'd have thought if that was the case on yotes, they'd hang one at each crossing around the place, not all in the same place? And especially convenient to be seen by all the humans that drive by?
Originally Posted by deflave
I've never understood the hanging of coyotes from a four strand.

Is that a tradition thing? It seemed to be common in Texas but I've never seen it here that I can recall.




Dave


Local fences are not tall enough to hang liberals from and likely would be frowned on. So we settle for coyotes. GW
I shoot a coyote given the opportunity. I like selling the hides.

Missed one on opening day this past weekend.
Originally Posted by 257_X_50
If you live in an orchard we're on the same team. Coyotes and me.

See deer all over all the time. Can't kill enough of them.

Same with squirrels.........knock down 5 peaches and carry away one.

And that is just when you cruise thru.


Yep....everyone has their own thoughts about killing different critters but it usually boils down to "whatever's good for them" not the wildlife population....

Funny story and a good example of that....several of the big wheat growers around here believe that Coyotes keep the Vole population down so they have big signs up telling you that Coyote hunting/shooting is prohibited. Fine it's their land and they can feel anyway they want right or wrong but one day when I was traveling down a road that bordered one of those fields but it had a big canyon on the other side that wasn't posted I saw a nice prime Coyote in there so I stopped and shot it. While I was retrieving it some lady came roaring up and started shouting at me about shooting "her Coyotes". I said no mam, I shot my Coyote. Yours are over there in that wheat stubble. She said a bunch of other stuff but I won't repeat it. grin
I'm like a kid in a candy store when a coyote makes an appearance.

I simply can't help myself, assuming the shot is safe/legal.
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by deflave
I've never understood the hanging of coyotes from a four strand.

Is that a tradition thing? It seemed to be common in Texas but I've never seen it here that I can recall.
Dave


Old time Ranchers thought that it deterred other coyotes from crossing into their property.


I did not know that.

But since Texas is the only state that I have seen it done, that makes a lot of sense.




Travis
We let some Indians go hunting the other day.


Of course they ended up shooting my 'pet' coyote.
(who I've seen all summer/fall)


And then they showed off and hung it over the fence where we would see it.

Really helping us out and all.....



Now there is a stinky ass dead coyote on the top wire, hopefully I don't have to fix fence in that area any time soon.


Tards.
Hey Jeff,

Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence?
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by 257_X_50
If you live in an orchard we're on the same team. Coyotes and me.

See deer all over all the time. Can't kill enough of them.

Same with squirrels.........knock down 5 peaches and carry away one.

And that is just when you cruise thru.


Yep....everyone has their own thoughts about killing different critters but it usually boils down to "whatever's good for them" not the wildlife population....

Funny story and a good example of that....several of the big wheat growers around here believe that Coyotes keep the Vole population down so they have big signs up telling you that Coyote hunting/shooting is prohibited. Fine it's their land and they can feel anyway they want right or wrong but one day when I was traveling down a road that bordered one of those fields but it had a big canyon on the other side that wasn't posted I saw a nice prime Coyote in there so I stopped and shot it. While I was retrieving it some lady came roaring up and started shouting at me about shooting "her Coyotes". I said no mam, I shot my Coyote. Yours are over there in that wheat stubble. She said a bunch of other stuff but I won't repeat it. grin


I ran one orchard where we had standard trees 18-22" diameter.

We figured up to 5 bushels per tree from deer. Couple of thousand trees.........

During the year sitting in a stand just watching deer 50 a night was the norm.

Destroy new trees too. Lose 1/2 a planting and your views change.
Originally Posted by 257_X_50


Destroy new trees too. Lose 1/2 a planting and your views change.


Like I said, people "views change" regarding wildlife depending on "their" needs.
It's human nature, nothing more.

Are Deer fences not cost effective?
There are very few exceptions whether a coyote will get a pass.

To name a couple:

If I am rattling in a known big buck wheelhouse.

On stand and drivers moving towards me.

I have had deer show up soon after I shot a coyote.

In this particular case two coyotes were trotting down a deer trail, shot the lead yote, the second one wheeled about and headed from whence it came, jacked another round in my 99-A and just as I got the scope on it I noticed a buck standing in the trail just ahead of it.

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Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by 257_X_50
If you live in an orchard we're on the same team. Coyotes and me.

See deer all over all the time. Can't kill enough of them.

Same with squirrels.........knock down 5 peaches and carry away one.

And that is just when you cruise thru.


Yep....everyone has their own thoughts about killing different critters but it usually boils down to "whatever's good for them" not the wildlife population....

Funny story and a good example of that....several of the big wheat growers around here believe that Coyotes keep the Vole population down so they have big signs up telling you that Coyote hunting/shooting is prohibited. Fine it's their land and they can feel anyway they want right or wrong but one day when I was traveling down a road that bordered one of those fields but it had a big canyon on the other side that wasn't posted I saw a nice prime Coyote in there so I stopped and shot it. While I was retrieving it some lady came roaring up and started shouting at me about shooting "her Coyotes". I said no mam, I shot my Coyote. Yours are over there in that wheat stubble. She said a bunch of other stuff but I won't repeat it. grin


Hooooooly Cow, that's funny. grin

She's all yours now, Ma'am.

TFF
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by 257_X_50


Destroy new trees too. Lose 1/2 a planting and your views change.


Like I said, people "views change" regarding wildlife depending on "their" needs.
It's human nature, nothing more.

Are Deer fences not cost effective?


They are pricey. And a lot of gates. Semi effective.

I was in special weapons ......two 9' fences with a High Voltage 8' between them.

Chase the deer out........they were soon back in. Couldn't believe it.

Some places have dogs with invisible fence. Chase deer to their hearts content.

In Missouri with friends with cattle.........it was different.

Like you said........as one needs.
Gottcha....
I must be lucky, I'm covered up with Deer on my place but I keep em out of my vegetable garden with t-posts and 6' field fencing. Have to run 2' of Chicken wire around the bottom too (the Rabbits are relentless) but it's just a small vegetable garden so no big deal.

Coyotes get a pass when I'm hunting deer. However when I'm hunting coyotes, coyotes get shot, as do bobcats.
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Gottcha....
I must be lucky, I'm covered up with Deer on my place but I keep em out of my vegetable garden with t-posts and 6' field fencing. Have to run 2' of Chicken wire around the bottom too (the Rabbits are relentless) but it's just a small vegetable garden so no big deal.



Yeah. I kept critters out of my garden with 2 strand of electric. One hi one low.

Peanut butter wrapped in aluminum foil on both.

Yes.......I watched. Lol
i don't bother with coyotes, leave them alone... now a wolf different story
It was a crispy cold morning just at daylight and I had been calling turkeys. Birds stopped singing and it got way too quiet. I got that creepy feeling that somebody was watching me. I looked around where I sat and for a while I saw nothing. Then I saw a shiny spot about 50 feet away behind some brush. As I looked more intently the hair on the back of my head stood up recognizing that it was a coyote, and it was watching me. A turkey load of #6 face on at 50 feet....
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Hey Jeff,

Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence?


Lots of yellow cat fishermen hung their big flatheads on fences. Kinda like some deer hunters do with big bucks on the wall or big racks.

Many years ago a lot of guys would hang a big bass head to dry with a stick propping its mouth open. On really big ones some would spray it with clear laquer after it dried to help preserve it and hang it on a wall or in the garage.

I guess it was a nice reminder of a good successful day. Not too PC now days it seems.

When I was a kid a place near Groveton always seemed to have a few big red wolves hanging on the fence. Man did i ever dream about getting one of them. Years later I did.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by 257_X_50
If you live in an orchard we're on the same team. Coyotes and me.

See deer all over all the time. Can't kill enough of them.

Same with squirrels.........knock down 5 peaches and carry away one.

And that is just when you cruise thru.


Yep....everyone has their own thoughts about killing different critters but it usually boils down to "whatever's good for them" not the wildlife population....

Funny story and a good example of that....several of the big wheat growers around here believe that Coyotes keep the Vole population down so they have big signs up telling you that Coyote hunting/shooting is prohibited. Fine it's their land and they can feel anyway they want right or wrong but one day when I was traveling down a road that bordered one of those fields but it had a big canyon on the other side that wasn't posted I saw a nice prime Coyote in there so I stopped and shot it. While I was retrieving it some lady came roaring up and started shouting at me about shooting "her Coyotes". I said no mam, I shot my Coyote. Yours are over there in that wheat stubble. She said a bunch of other stuff but I won't repeat it. grin


Hooooooly Cow, that's funny. grin

She's all yours now, Ma'am.

TFF


Ha, ha, ha. "You want to pet it?"
Wile E. Coyote never get a pass.


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Coyote first and the deer second
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Hey Jeff,

Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence?


You know, I had not thought of that, it used to be real common locally, but its bringing memories back, I do believe I have seen that place out south of Rocksprings.

Locally used to circle Lake Somerville and catfish heads were the norm on fence posts.
Yeah, they were all big cat heads.
If there's a gun in my hand I'm hunting coyotes. If a good deer happens by I might shoot it.
I have like to watch them and have never shot one.
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Hey Jeff,

Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence?


You know, I had not thought of that, it used to be real common locally, but its bringing memories back, I do believe I have seen that place out south of Rocksprings.

Locally used to circle Lake Somerville and catfish heads were the norm on fence posts.


Yup, here too Jeff. But I think all the big catfish have been all caught out on our section of the river. Then again I don't think anyone really trot line fishes down here anymore. The big thing here now is bass fishing the river!!!

I remember one morn I was on a place we had cows on down by Luling Tx. That place was lousy with coyotes. Shot one that was almost solid black one morning about 10'minutes after making one of the best offhand shots on a little buck I had ever made!

Had another 'yote almost run me over where I say on the edge of the field once! Scared he'll outta him! He'd been running around the field for about 5 minutes and then made a bee line for me! Boy, he put on the brakes when he finally saw me!

Had another walk out. Spot me. And start that damn catterwalling! Really molesting my hunt!!! She died pretty quick! Loudmouth female!
Originally Posted by mudhen
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.


I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food.
That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know.
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by mudhen
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.


I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food.
That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know.
The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes (in utero) average a little more than two per female.

When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically.

No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. grin
A few years back while bow hunting Elk, I shot a Coyote on my way into our unite with my bow.

We were driving up a gravel road and came around a corner and there stood a Coyote.

So, I got out of the rig and knocked an arrow.

When I let fly, I saw sparks behind the Coyote where my broadhead hit the gravel. I thought I had missed.

Then the Coyote did a few flips and piled up. D.O.A.

Virgil B.
mudhen,

I recall reading a summary of several studies, which concluded that at least 1/3 of the population of coyotes in a large area would have to be killed not just one year, but every year for several years, to significantly reduce coyote predation. This wasn't just because of increased reproduction, but if 1/3 were taken in a relatively small area, coyotes from surrounding areas would quickly move in. Have you seen any of that research?
Originally Posted by mudhen
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by mudhen
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.


I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food.
That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know.
The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes (in utero) average a little more than two per female.

When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically.

No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. grin


Well then....explain to me why when a good ADC man that knows Coyotes and how to use snares is hired to go into an area the Coyote population not only drops but also takes years (sometimes a decade) to recover. Not science or wives tales....just real world first hand experience with some simple math thrown in for good measure...:)
Originally Posted by mudhen
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.


I've read about that a time or two. Kind of hard to believe. But around here, I know the deer and we have a good fawn survival rate so regardless they sure don't seem to impact the population locally.
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by mudhen
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by mudhen
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.


I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food.
That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know.
The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes (in utero) average a little more than two per female.

When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically.

No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. grin


Well then....explain to me why when a good ADC man that knows Coyotes and how to use snares is hired to go into an area the Coyote population not only drops but also takes years (sometimes a decade) to recover. Not science or wives tales....just real world first hand experience with some simple math thrown in for good measure...:)


We have trappers on our lease. Snares and cyanide guns. I"ve only seen them take more and more coyotes the longer they've been there? Wouldn't that indicate increase rather than decrease? Of course useing cyanide guns is lazy to me, but it seems to work on lots of critters. Makes me have to be really careful with my trailing dog...
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Hey Jeff,

Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence?


You know, I had not thought of that, it used to be real common locally, but its bringing memories back, I do believe I have seen that place out south of Rocksprings.

Locally used to circle Lake Somerville and catfish heads were the norm on fence posts.


Yup, here too Jeff. But I think all the big catfish have been all caught out on our section of the river. Then again I don't think anyone really trot line fishes down here anymore. The big thing here now is bass fishing the river!!!

I remember one morn I was on a place we had cows on down by Luling Tx. That place was lousy with coyotes. Shot one that was almost solid black one morning about 10'minutes after making one of the best offhand shots on a little buck I had ever made!

Had another 'yote almost run me over where I say on the edge of the field once! Scared he'll outta him! He'd been running around the field for about 5 minutes and then made a bee line for me! Boy, he put on the brakes when he finally saw me!

Had another walk out. Spot me. And start that damn catterwalling! Really molesting my hunt!!! She died pretty quick! Loudmouth female!


I don't think there are all gone. We snag a 50-60 every few years. And there is still one that we can't ever hold... but that has been going on for the last 20 years it seems. Sure would like to take a picture and turn that one loose again.
Thus far have given them a pass.
Not opposed to killing them but am waiting for a convincing explanation of the ecological benefits of doing so.
If your looking to reduce the population in the long run, nah it won't work. But if you take out a dozen or so coyotes right before fawns start dropping? How could that not help your fawn survival rate that year?
Depends where I am hunting. Most places I would shoot on sight. But the one place has some megabucks in the area.......
I am a firm believer that killing coyotes doesn't do a damn thing to help any prey or livestock pops, unless you're hunting a specific problem animal. Otherwise you'd have to be relentless with traps/poison and continue doing so for as long as you want that particular coyote population lowered.

Killing one here and there does nothing. They'll move in from surrounding areas almost instantly.

I do love shooting them though, and never pass on an opportunity.
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
mudhen,

I recall reading a summary of several studies, which concluded that at least 1/3 of the population of coyotes in a large area would have to be killed not just one year, but every year for several years, to significantly reduce coyote predation. This wasn't just because of increased reproduction, but if 1/3 were taken in a relatively small area, coyotes from surrounding areas would quickly move in. Have you seen any of that research?
MD, I don't keep up with the literature like I used to do before I retired, and a quick google search didn't turn up that particular study. However, I did run across a summary paper by Fred Bryant at Texas A&M that, among other things, concluded that:

Considering the strong compensatory reproductive response of coyote populations to reduction, if control, sport, and bounty hunting collectively do not reduce numbers annually on a continuing basis by at least 75 percent, no sustained decline in the population can be achieved. Therefore, to summarize, in most situations, killing coyotes at rates below 75 percent may merely stimulate reproduction and aggravate the problem by increasing the seasonal population pressure on the food supply.

Sport calling, opportunistic shooting and legal fur trapping do not significantly impact numbers of individuals in most coyote populations, nor do they reduce predation on game and nongame species to any significant degree. However, control efforts that target and remove problem animals can be very effective at mitigating or eliminating predation on domestic animals.
Originally Posted by Snake River Marksman
If I've got a firearm, coyotes never get a pass.


^ THAT
The next time anti-fur types asks me why I call dogs, I'm going to explain that I'm only trying to increase their numbers.





Dave
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by mudhen
Originally Posted by FieldGrade
Originally Posted by mudhen
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them.


I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food.
That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know.
The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes (in utero) average a little more than two per female.

When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically.

No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. grin


Well then....explain to me why when a good ADC man that knows Coyotes and how to use snares is hired to go into an area the Coyote population not only drops but also takes years (sometimes a decade) to recover. Not science or wives tales....just real world first hand experience with some simple math thrown in for good measure...:)


I have been engaged in coyote research and management off and on since about 1973 and I have never encountered or heard of anyone documenting a situation such as you describe. However, here on the campfire, anecdotal evidence trumps quantitative research every time. grin
Deflave,

Boy-oh-boy is that an invitation to say something rude! laugh
I've been huntin' bitches since 1977.

That has to count for something.





Clark
Nobody hunts on my property without permission.

[Linked Image]


Funny story: I nailed that one with 165 grain Hornady SP at 150 yards back in 2002. I brought it out and showed it to my Collie/Shep mix, Barney. Barney thought the dog was sleeping, but he quickly put it all together and started getting really hinky with me. He began to slink away from me with his hair raised. I still had the rifle in my hands.

"Don't worry," I told him. "That was a bad dog. You're a good dog. I only shoot bad dogs."

Barney, who was scary smart, perked right up and started wagging his tail. That was enough of an explanation for him.

I've seen so many more coyotes this hunting season than ever before. I'm shooting them.
I not only shoot all the coyotes I can, these dont get a free pass, either. Got this one this morning.

[Linked Image]
Nice!
Originally Posted by Alamosa
Thus far have given them a pass.
Not opposed to killing them but am waiting for a convincing explanation of the ecological benefits of doing so.


If there was such, I'd certainly consider it. I'm generally in favor a free market approach to wildlife management (let the ecosystem sort it out) and that generally means I'm not nearly as anti-predator as many guys. However, clearly many of the habitats that deer live in are hardly "free market" in the sense that they are coexisting closely with humans and all the mayhem we bring- from fences to agriculture to roads and so on.

In that case, where the human imprint is large, I'm open to the notion that humans might need to micromanage the predators.

Both my public-land big country hunts this fall featured coyotes singing. I would've loved to see the wild dogs. Didn't have any interest in shooting one.
I can tell you guys one thing.

Eliminating the breeding pairs in an area in Jan. / Feb, has an impact on the number of yotes I see the next year.

But as John said - stop hunting them and the pour in fast.
Originally Posted by Pugs
I skip the Shovel and Shut up part. grin

[Linked Image]
Shoot shovel and shut up on the wolves up here in Minnysota. With the coyotes, it's just shoot and shoot some more.
If I can recall some of my game management classes, coyotes are adaptable to the quantity and quality of their prey species. They can increase litter sizes if the carry capacity of their territory dictates a healthy population. Like many predators, coyotes are very mobile and will search out higher density of prey species. Late winter die-offs of deer will send coyotes search for new territories. They also can supplement their diet with smaller prey such as rabbits and other small mammals.
Anecdotally, a dead 'yote on a fence post may allow you to feel good, its not all that important considering the big picture.
knocked of two 'yote's today on one place I hunt at. It's at a chicken farm. The coyotes are encamped there in vast numbers to feed on the dead chickens that don't make it to the freezers (I haven't ask why they are doing this)farming is a tough business, so I'm trying to not be too critical about it.
Shot a coyote opening day on my elk hunt.
20 yards with a 7mm mag 168 vld
Ive let them pass once or twice, and shot them others. Oddly enough, I saw one a few hundred yards away laying on top of a round hay bale. Didnt have a good shot, so let the coyote hang around. 30 minutes later, deer came into the field, saw the coyote, and diverted across the field in my direction. Simple shot at low yardage, and deer meet in the freezer. Was fortunate that time.
I'm a hunter in a deer-dense region along the Ohio River called the Trans-Bluegrass. It has a lot of cattle and a lot of coyote. Let me make the case for killing any coyote you see.

1) Coyote eat deer. They are especially good at taking fawns. The more coyotes you kill, the better chance the fawns have for survival.

2) Coyote eat cattle. That sounds like an outrageous claim, but around my neck of the woods, you have to be extremely careful about watching your cows in the spring. Coyotes will follow an expectant cow around, waiting for her to drop. As soon as the calf presents, they coyotes will be on it. The first time I nailed a coyote out deer hunting, I was a neighborhood hero.

3) Coyote eat turkeys. They destroy the nests, and they interfere with breeding. Most of our coyote kills have come from coyotes coming to turkey calls or making a run at our decoys.

4) I have not heard of coyotes actually attacking humans, but the ones in our neighborhood have started making runs at us. One neighbor reported a coyote clipping his legs as he was walking between two sheds in his yard. I've had them make close passes in the dark. My youngest son made the mistake of trying to come home through the woods after dark without a flashlight. Trust me, they are always looking for a way.

5) In 2005, the coyote population became dense enough for Parvo to set in and nearly wipe out the whole population in our area. The problem was they passed it to a lot of other animals as well. A lot of pets died as a result.


Starting two years ago, I issued a new standing order at camp: no one was to go beyond the curtilage without being properly armed. This necessitated going for our CCW's, because it quickly became clear that this was going to make trips into town a problem. We have had just too many close encounters at the farm and too many missed opportunities. I've also had two incidents where I caught coyotes stalking our dogs up close to the house.

When I'm out and about and not otherwise armed, I'm carrying a 357 Magnum in either a lever rifle or a revolver.

Warning: I have been warning folks for years that they should not think about shooting yotes in the dark. There are a lot of guys who get scared at coyotes making passes at them in the dark while they're going out to their stands. They start packing sidearms thinking they'll shoot the yotes if they get too close. Don't. You probably won't hit them, and you might hit another hunter. The better tactic when confronted is to make yourself big and scary and loud. I've had to do this a few times over the years, and it works. Instead of firing, point your flashlight at the noise and brandish your staff or rifle at them like a club. So far, that has worked much better for me.




I hunt on a narrow 400 ac tract in middle Georgia and we've had coyotes for about 20 years, with a noticeable decrease in our deer population. One of my club member's son learned to trap and spent January through June of 2014 trapping coyotes. In that time he trapped 24! He did a little bit of trapping in 2015 and got about 7 or 8. Since then, we have seen an increase of fawns and turkeys on our trail cameras.

The coyotes are still there, but not in the numbers that they once were. I'm convinced we're helping, but as others have said, we'll never get rid of all of them. All we can do is hope to help balance out.
Yes!!! Just this season, during Antelope season. Have before, during Antelope,Deer,Elk. It's my duty as a conservationist and a hunter. Shoot a wolf... x 1000 in importance!!!!! memtb
Saw one Sunday. No chance for shot.
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