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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,630 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,630 Likes: 5 |
Hey Jeff,
Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence? You know, I had not thought of that, it used to be real common locally, but its bringing memories back, I do believe I have seen that place out south of Rocksprings. Locally used to circle Lake Somerville and catfish heads were the norm on fence posts. Yup, here too Jeff. But I think all the big catfish have been all caught out on our section of the river. Then again I don't think anyone really trot line fishes down here anymore. The big thing here now is bass fishing the river!!! I remember one morn I was on a place we had cows on down by Luling Tx. That place was lousy with coyotes. Shot one that was almost solid black one morning about 10'minutes after making one of the best offhand shots on a little buck I had ever made! Had another 'yote almost run me over where I say on the edge of the field once! Scared he'll outta him! He'd been running around the field for about 5 minutes and then made a bee line for me! Boy, he put on the brakes when he finally saw me! Had another walk out. Spot me. And start that damn catterwalling! Really molesting my hunt!!! She died pretty quick! Loudmouth female!
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243 |
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them. I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food. That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104 |
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them. I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food. That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know. The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes ( in utero) average a little more than two per female. When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically. No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. 
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,539
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,539 |
A few years back while bow hunting Elk, I shot a Coyote on my way into our unite with my bow.
We were driving up a gravel road and came around a corner and there stood a Coyote.
So, I got out of the rig and knocked an arrow.
When I let fly, I saw sparks behind the Coyote where my broadhead hit the gravel. I thought I had missed.
Then the Coyote did a few flips and piled up. D.O.A.
Virgil B.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
mudhen,
I recall reading a summary of several studies, which concluded that at least 1/3 of the population of coyotes in a large area would have to be killed not just one year, but every year for several years, to significantly reduce coyote predation. This wasn't just because of increased reproduction, but if 1/3 were taken in a relatively small area, coyotes from surrounding areas would quickly move in. Have you seen any of that research?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243 |
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them. I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food. That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know. The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes ( in utero) average a little more than two per female. When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically. No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. Well then....explain to me why when a good ADC man that knows Coyotes and how to use snares is hired to go into an area the Coyote population not only drops but also takes years (sometimes a decade) to recover. Not science or wives tales....just real world first hand experience with some simple math thrown in for good measure...:)
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them. I've read about that a time or two. Kind of hard to believe. But around here, I know the deer and we have a good fawn survival rate so regardless they sure don't seem to impact the population locally.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them. I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food. That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know. The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes ( in utero) average a little more than two per female. When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically. No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. Well then....explain to me why when a good ADC man that knows Coyotes and how to use snares is hired to go into an area the Coyote population not only drops but also takes years (sometimes a decade) to recover. Not science or wives tales....just real world first hand experience with some simple math thrown in for good measure...:) We have trappers on our lease. Snares and cyanide guns. I"ve only seen them take more and more coyotes the longer they've been there? Wouldn't that indicate increase rather than decrease? Of course useing cyanide guns is lazy to me, but it seems to work on lots of critters. Makes me have to be really careful with my trailing dog...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Hey Jeff,
Do you ever remember that place just south of Rocksprings with all the fish heads on the fence? You know, I had not thought of that, it used to be real common locally, but its bringing memories back, I do believe I have seen that place out south of Rocksprings. Locally used to circle Lake Somerville and catfish heads were the norm on fence posts. Yup, here too Jeff. But I think all the big catfish have been all caught out on our section of the river. Then again I don't think anyone really trot line fishes down here anymore. The big thing here now is bass fishing the river!!! I remember one morn I was on a place we had cows on down by Luling Tx. That place was lousy with coyotes. Shot one that was almost solid black one morning about 10'minutes after making one of the best offhand shots on a little buck I had ever made! Had another 'yote almost run me over where I say on the edge of the field once! Scared he'll outta him! He'd been running around the field for about 5 minutes and then made a bee line for me! Boy, he put on the brakes when he finally saw me! Had another walk out. Spot me. And start that damn catterwalling! Really molesting my hunt!!! She died pretty quick! Loudmouth female! I don't think there are all gone. We snag a 50-60 every few years. And there is still one that we can't ever hold... but that has been going on for the last 20 years it seems. Sure would like to take a picture and turn that one loose again.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
Thus far have given them a pass.
Not opposed to killing them but am waiting for a convincing explanation of the ecological benefits of doing so.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,822 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,822 Likes: 7 |
If your looking to reduce the population in the long run, nah it won't work. But if you take out a dozen or so coyotes right before fawns start dropping? How could that not help your fawn survival rate that year?
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
Depends where I am hunting. Most places I would shoot on sight. But the one place has some megabucks in the area.......
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,274 Likes: 22
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,274 Likes: 22 |
I am a firm believer that killing coyotes doesn't do a damn thing to help any prey or livestock pops, unless you're hunting a specific problem animal. Otherwise you'd have to be relentless with traps/poison and continue doing so for as long as you want that particular coyote population lowered.
Killing one here and there does nothing. They'll move in from surrounding areas almost instantly.
I do love shooting them though, and never pass on an opportunity.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104 |
mudhen,
I recall reading a summary of several studies, which concluded that at least 1/3 of the population of coyotes in a large area would have to be killed not just one year, but every year for several years, to significantly reduce coyote predation. This wasn't just because of increased reproduction, but if 1/3 were taken in a relatively small area, coyotes from surrounding areas would quickly move in. Have you seen any of that research? MD, I don't keep up with the literature like I used to do before I retired, and a quick google search didn't turn up that particular study. However, I did run across a summary paper by Fred Bryant at Texas A&M that, among other things, concluded that: Considering the strong compensatory reproductive response of coyote populations to reduction, if control, sport, and bounty hunting collectively do not reduce numbers annually on a continuing basis by at least 75 percent, no sustained decline in the population can be achieved. Therefore, to summarize, in most situations, killing coyotes at rates below 75 percent may merely stimulate reproduction and aggravate the problem by increasing the seasonal population pressure on the food supply. Sport calling, opportunistic shooting and legal fur trapping do not significantly impact numbers of individuals in most coyote populations, nor do they reduce predation on game and nongame species to any significant degree. However, control efforts that target and remove problem animals can be very effective at mitigating or eliminating predation on domestic animals.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,664 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,664 Likes: 5 |
If I've got a firearm, coyotes never get a pass. ^ THAT
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
The next time anti-fur types asks me why I call dogs, I'm going to explain that I'm only trying to increase their numbers.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104 |
Lots of research has proven that the more coyotes you kill, the more offspring they make, and they make them a lot faster than you can kill them. I'm not sure about that. An adult pair breeds once a year, period. And that pair are only capable of rearing/feeding so many pups. Just like any wild animal the size of the litter is controlled by the availability of food. That they would or could "make more off spring and make em faster" sounds more like an old wives tale than science to me but I'm not a biologist...just a old guy that's been hunting Coyotes for 50+ years so what do I know. The simple explanation is that the two factors that contribute the most to coyote numbers are female age at first breeding and litter size in females. In stable populations, it is rare to find a female breeding before the age of three, and litter sizes ( in utero) average a little more than two per female. When you start removing animals from the population, the social structure breaks down, and the more animals you remove the more it is disrupted. In heavily harvested populations, virtually all of the one-year-old females will have bred, and the average litter size for all age classes will be somewhere around six. So, you have more than three times as many females breeding (because there are a lot more young females than older ones) and each female is putting more than twice as many pups on the ground. Even with an increase in the mortality rate of sub adult pups, population growth increases dramatically. No old wives were involved or consulted in any of these research projects. Well then....explain to me why when a good ADC man that knows Coyotes and how to use snares is hired to go into an area the Coyote population not only drops but also takes years (sometimes a decade) to recover. Not science or wives tales....just real world first hand experience with some simple math thrown in for good measure...:) I have been engaged in coyote research and management off and on since about 1973 and I have never encountered or heard of anyone documenting a situation such as you describe. However, here on the campfire, anecdotal evidence trumps quantitative research every time.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Deflave, Boy-oh-boy is that an invitation to say something rude! 
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I've been huntin' bitches since 1977.
That has to count for something.
Clark
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,350 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,350 Likes: 3 |
Nobody hunts on my property without permission. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.blackholecoffeehouse.com/DSC00094.JPG) Funny story: I nailed that one with 165 grain Hornady SP at 150 yards back in 2002. I brought it out and showed it to my Collie/Shep mix, Barney. Barney thought the dog was sleeping, but he quickly put it all together and started getting really hinky with me. He began to slink away from me with his hair raised. I still had the rifle in my hands. "Don't worry," I told him. "That was a bad dog. You're a good dog. I only shoot bad dogs." Barney, who was scary smart, perked right up and started wagging his tail. That was enough of an explanation for him.
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