After the 2013 hunt it became painfully apparent that if I wanted to keep doing this for a few more years [which I do]. Getting in shape would have to be a year round thing. I worked in construction for 45 yrs. that kept me in fairly decent shape for hunting. Now I need an exercise or training program.

I have been going to the gym 6 days a week. Three days strength training 3 days cardio. I have been kind of stumbling my way through it. I was wondering what some of the older guys did to stay in shape? Any good books or good advice? What do you do?

I don't think there are any deep secrets, or quick ways.
It seems the older I get, the harder, and longer progress comes.

I may not be in the "older guys" group, but I am also not a real big fan of the gym. (It just bores me to tears). So as part of my early New Year's resolution I got a trainer late last year. Its been a good motivator and more importantly it has kept me going on a regular basis. Even it its only a few sessions they are good at helping you achieve your goals. Was a runner and baseball player when I was younger so the gym was never part of my routine. Its slooowly growing on me..

This article is a good read as well.
http://www.rokslide.com/fitness/265-fitness-to-get-you-over-the-hill-at-any-age

Set a routine and go - the biggest obstacle to get over.

I was a gym rat for a while, it helps, but I think the biggest help this past year was hiking with a hunting pack 3-5 days a week for at least an hour, more time and distance if I could squeeze it in.

Unfortunately, I'm at sea level and jump to 2500-3500+ in Idaho, and up with no prep. I haven't figured out the wind piece, but building the legs with the pack made the transition easier than expected.

I use a 25 pound bag of concrete mix, wrap it up in plastic, and tape the snot out of it. One is a starter load, two for break-down and build up routines. Also allows me test out a pack and if I'm going to like the way it carries under load. We have some decent ravines and short hills for up/down work-outs, so used those as much as I could.

I'm a audio fan, a bit of music or the like helps to avoid the focus on the clock. Yeah, I can feel a bit nerd-ish with the headphones, but it helps make the hard stuff pass.

Agree with the above, every year, it's a little bit harder...

47 here and more than a little banged up. Also did construction and other manual jobs when I was younger that kept me in shape.

I have learned some hard lessons about getting into and staying in shape.

1. Do no harm, I don't care how good it is or how many rave about it, if it hurts you, it's worse than useless, Crossfit fits this in a big way.

2. Enjoy what you do, if you don't like it, you will quit

3. Stay in shape all year round, as we get older our ability to recover declines, we cannot do the "get in shape in August for a September hunt anymore, this causes too many injuries, see rule 1.

4. Work your weaknesses first, if you are great deadlifter, but a lousy at climbing hills, it doesn't do much good to keep dead lifting and ignore your lack of climbing ability.

5. Balance in all things, sway too far to one end of the spectrum and other things suffer.

6. Strength first, often times lack of flexibility is just simply imbalanced and weak muscles. The body is really quirky about this, in that it has a safety mechanism to stop you from doing something it feels is dangerous or might hurt you. Stronger legs climb better and a stronger torso can haul a heavy pack better. Put your raw strength before your cardio.

7. Sprints rule for conditioning, flat land, up hill, stairs, sled pull, it doesn't matter, get out and sprint once a week ...... hard. Uphill is best and the easiest on your body. Be careful with this though, it's tough to recover, so limit it to once a week.

8. Pay attention to what your body is telling you, if something hurts either figure out what you are doing wrong or stop doing it. If one day you are really tired and dragging butt, rest.

9. Recovery is when the work pays off, this means sleep good, eat right and keep your stress levels as low as possible.

10. Food and water are your main weapons, without proper nutrition you can't build muscle, lose fat or have fuel for work. If it has a label, chances are it's not good for you.

My favorite exercises for staying in shape for hunting.

Kettlebell swings
One legged squats
Turkish Get Ups
Pull Ups
Handstand Push Ups
Push Ups
Sprints
Hiking hills
Walking

A really good basic program that I really like is Kettlebell, simple and sinister by Pavel. It uses the Kettlebell swing and Turkish get up, that's it, but it works great and is easy on the body.

Two more thoughts to leave you with, persistence and consistency matters more than anything else.

You cannot out train a bad diet.

The old adage is: "it's better to stay in shape, than to get in shape".

I've been trying my best to stay in shape, but still have to pick it up before huntin' and skiing season. Drawing a Dall Sheep tag means a whole new level of training and weight loss.

The older I get the more I feel the benefits of daily workouts. Elkhunter 241 is on the money you can tailor his guidelines to fit your capabilities and goals. For me I find an elliptical trainer of good quality combined w/ kettlebells and free weights works for a home gym. I frequently combine all 3 and do intervals. I wear a pack while doing most exercises and find this to help when I carry the real thing. I try to do at least 2 hours of steep climbing in the hills at least once/week. I put 30-40 lbs. of water for the uphill and dump it for the downhill to save my tired knees. Hiking offtrail also helps to develop accessory muscles and balance. I am 66 y/o and try to protect my joints w/good nutrition and at least 1 rest day/week. Good luck and never quit.

mike r

No mention of it here, but I recently started doing yoga. Has really helped with flexibility and grip strength, things that have in turn helped in the gym. Thought I would throw it out for anyone considering it.

As a collegiate hockey player my ability to climb long and steep was astonishing.

However after that stage of my life, I took up long distance running to stay fit for my hunting seasons in Alaska Idaho and Washington. Can't be so soft my clients out hike me!

Big learning curve here. The ice skating is very heavy quad strength, as was the compulsory hours on the bike or you don't play. We had hours of stationary bike fitness.

My running was 30-50 miles a week, my hiking was miserable burning thighs and just unpleasant. How could this be when I was running so much? Thinking back, when hiking was easy, I was biking and skating. Bought myself a great mountain bike, no lightweight deal, but a real mountain bike. Something comfortable to enjoy and very well made so not to be frustrating.

In 3-4 months I was back! My takeaway was running is not quad strengthening but biking is. Biking is also, no impact ( unless you crash) the best part has been biking on trails in the mountains scouting.

A simple thought on this about biking trails, don't worry if your in places where you have to walk the bike. If you can ride the whole way your not mountain biking! The improvement to my hiking and climbing fitness is 100% better then running.

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

Years and years of various fitness regimes failed because I did not make them part of my lifestyle. Now that I am in my twilight years I have come to realize I am not full of piss and vinegar and bullet proof as years past.

To hunt when and where I want to hunt it takes a commitment and this is what I am committed to.

Walk, walk and walk and stair climbs.

Chiropractic spinal exercises to increase and maintain flexibility.

Strength weight lifing with high repetitions to maintain muscle tone and endurance.

Recently I have incorporated the high intensity 7-minute workout recommended to me by a local college sports trainer. You can not use the excuse that there is no time to excercise with this regime. I have been doing it for about 4 months and there are positive results.

If interested in the 7-minute workout here is a link to the American College of Sports Medicine - Journal article.

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-health...EIGHT_.5.aspx?WT.mc_id=HPxADx20100319xMP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWsVnE2854I

Watch until the end if you dare.

The biggest obstacle to me is simply just making myself get out of the house and do it. That means motivation can only be had if it becomes something I can look forward to. For me, this eliminates exercise machines, gyms, and "workouts". These are boring beyond words so therefore, not going to motivate me.
What works for me is slow, easy jogging, just keeping the cardio up there for 45 minutes or so, or hiking the hill behind my house with a pack loaded with a 40 pound bag of rocksalt. When I go on dayhikes I often carry a full size backpack loaded, this kind of thing.
I enjoy getting out, relieving stress, feeling like I accomplished something without trying to kill myself. I'm no exercise guru but it seems reasonable that carrying a pack and hiking is doing more good than the latest blowyergutsoutsupercardioworkout, or even a piece of exercise equipment as you are using and conditioning, muscles, ankles, tendons that will be used while hunting in the same manner as hunting.

I'm in the same boat, 56 and wanting to keep going for as long as I can, hunting in the mountains out of a backpack. I can tell you what works for me.

For your cardio, if you use machines like a stair climber, don't cheat by holding onto the rails or worse yet, draping your body weight on them like I see so many people doing. You're working out your legs, why so many people defeat the purpose by resting their weight on their upper body is beyond me. Also, if you don't hold the rails you're forced to balance, which is a good thing.

For cardio workouts, every trainer I've talked to has said that interval training is much better than a constant aerobic pace. Interval training is just going at a high intensity pace you can't sustain (anaerobic) for a short period (30-60 seconds) and then backing off to a pace that you can sustain and forcing your body to recover while you're going at an aerobic pace. So an example would be a slow jog for 90-120 seconds, followed by a sprint for 30 seconds, then a recovery period using a slow jog for 90-120, etc. On the recovery period, you don't want to stretch it out long enough that you're fully recovered, just long enough so that you can go again, and sustain the intervals for at least 30 minutes.

The good thing about intervals is you can do them running, or on any machine, try to mix it up and do different machines, a good one I like is jogging backward on an inclined treadmill and slowing to a walk for the recovery, it works different muscles and many of the same ones you use for descending a slope, which we all kind of neglect I think.

Also as you get older, balance and lower leg strength should be more of a focus, although most people don't work on these. Anything you can do to work on balance doing one-legged exercises on an unstable platform like a BOSU ball will help, as will one-legged box jumps, focusing on a smooth, controlled landing. You can really prevent a lot of falls this way, especially important if you're carrying loads on your back.

Other than that, I work on lower body and core strength, squats, dead lifts, and lower back, obliques, and abs using the Roman chair, hanging leg lifts etc.

Upper body too, but it's not the main focus.

I also walk a lot, off trail, so that my ankles are used to uneven ground. Three miles a few times a week. And in summer, I start out with a 20-lb. pack and add weight gradually, building toward the season. I use water jugs, they're a little harder to pack and keep balanced, but the good thing is, whenever you want, you can always shed some weight.

JJHACK,

I was hoping you would respond because I saw you post almost exactly the same response on another thread about the same subject.

While I do agree with you, there are some reasons I didn't list riding bikes. I spent several years riding them and do speak from experience.

First you gotta get some push going, either climb mountains or get on the pedals and do sprints. Just sitting back and cruising along won't do it. Most people just putt along like a grandma when they hit the road.

Second you have to mingle with traffic and I had so many close calls, crashes and getting run off the road that I surely had a guardian angel watching over me and this was long before cell phones. I can't imagine what riding now is like.

Third, sooner or later you will take a spill and this means getting banged up, road rash, sprains or even broken bones. The problem here is rule #1, do no harm, avoid injuries whenever possible.

Fourth, in my area you cannot ride all year round, it's just too dangerous with the constant freeze and thaw here in the winter and I hate the couple months of suck of getting my wind back once the weather gets nice. Which this also defeats the purpose of staying in shape all year round.

Now if I lived in an area that stayed nice most of the year like SoCal or Florida AND had dedicated bike paths with no crazy distracted soccer moms zooming down the road while putting on make up, I would definitely add a bike to my arsenal.

Also if you want to add a bike in to a training program to mix things up and can only ride a few months out of the year, then that's a great idea too.

I also agree jogging just doesn't cut it, it doesn't work the quads, hams and glutes hard enough to get you into climbing shape. Same deal with swimming, just doesn't get the job done.

I listed exercises that could be done in your home, garage or back yard during all seasons. The key here is to get into shape and stay there once and for all.

Crossfit is something that interests me. There's even a box that does a workout at noon that I could make before work.


BUT, where I work out now, two of the regulars there are chiropractors. They tell horror stories about crossfitters. I've never liked the idea of using inertia to lift weight, and neither do they....

So run it down to me TAK...

Later Dan, I gots to ponder this one.

I know lots of people that Crossfit and I've done a bit of it myself. It is not dangerous in my opinion, but it is what I would consider an advanced method of increasing your level of fitness.

I would not jump into Crossfit if I was not already in pretty damn good shape and if I didn't have a very good understanding of proper form for the variety of exercises it utilizes.


Travis

Thanks boys.
I want to get up to speed on this too....

If you Google "Crossfit fail videos", you get over 15,000 hits.

The best thing and the worst thing about Crossfit is the culture.

It's great about getting people off of the couch and doing SOMETHING.

It makes people fairly fit, no question.

But, the huge problem about this culture is the attitude of going all out, every time, injury or not, failure or not and even if the person can actually do the movement correctly or not.

After a certain age you just don't come back from injury that well or even completely. You don't recover so well anymore either.

Injuries happen, but why encourage them or recklessly walk right into them on purpose.

The last woman in the video, her ankle will never be the same, ever again. The worst of it is, she did it on purpose.

That is the culture of Crossfit.

�CrossFit� Community Rallies Behind Colorado Man Severely Injured In Competition

Kevin Ogar was performing a powerlift when his spine was severed and he lost the use of his legs.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/01/...ado-man-severely-injured-in-competition/

I am with JJHack. Mountain biking is the way to fly. I helped scout for my buddy on his moose hunt two years ago. I could cover tons of ground on a mountain bike. You can sneak up on critters and get a great workout at the same time!

FYI, QBP is now making some cool gun mounts for bikes. Also Check out the surly pugsly http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pug_ops and big dummy for hunting and hauling game!

Green Berets use rifles.

Marxists/Maoists use rifles.

Therefore, Green Berets are Communists. Right?

Dumb ignorant biatches do deadlifts in heels.

Crossfitters do deadlifts barefoot or in shoes with extremely thin soles.

Therefore Crossfitters are dumb ignorant biatches, and Marxist/Leninists as well.

Got it.

WTF did you see anything in that vid that had a GD thing to do, in any way, with Crossfit?

Riding level and paved is not the ticket, not even close.

Mountain biking without car exhaust up hills low gear standing and grinding away is the answer. Not good in winter, but then much like the brutal hockey training an exercise bike or seasonal gym membership with bikes can get you through those months.

When my son was very young (3-4) I bought a kid trailer. I rode 15 miles with him in that trailer through a mountain trail used by horses and joggers every day with him. We rode rain, flurries and the rare sunshine days in the cascades. Had to get an HID headlight with the short days of winter. It became our routine together.. I have over 13,000 miles on that Santa Cruise bike now. The odometer was a challenge to see how many miles a month I could put on. When he got too big I bought a 1/2 bike that has no front wheel. It clamps to the seat post of the mountain bike. Now at 12, he powers along with me on his own bike. My days are numbered, I can see now he will be waiting on me before too much longer!

Here is what happened:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/crossfit-a...concerns-popular-sport/story?id=21555690

He dumped the barbell it landed and bounced against a stack of weights behind the lifting platform and nailed him in the back. Really pisspoor planning/safety.

Anyone who's ever framed a house or worked in a factory knows to pick [bleep] up and keep your work area tidy, especially where people are picking up heavy [bleep].

Edit: A "Powerlift" is a deadlift, squat, or benchpress. The snatch is an Olympic lift.

This.

And for the OP, if you have some miles on you, and various old injuries and/or arthritic joints, it's probably not for you. Because the principal (as far as I can tell) is muscle confusion, not doing the same workout twice in a row, and doing a lot of different things to work on different muscle groups.

Using myself as an example, I have to be very careful how I do squat-type exercises (arthritic knee), anything over head (injured shoulder), and pull-ups or curls (tennis elbow). After working with good trainers, I know exactly what I can do long-term with no pain, and what I can't do. I can't do squats with a barbell or after a few sessions, my knee will flare up. But there are one or two machines I can use that don't aggravate the knee. I can't do parallel grip pull-ups or conventional bicep curls or my elbow will flare up, but I can do wide-grip pull-ups and hammer curls with no problem. And so on.

If you do cross-fit, you'll be working in a group and asked to do stuff that may aggravate old injuries or arthritic joints. If you have to sit out certain parts of the program to avoid that, it seems to be defeating the purpose, and you may as well just work out on your own, doing stuff that you know you can handle.

T.A.K.

If you Google "Crossfit fail videos", you get over 15,000 hits.

Read it this time?

The injury rate for Crossfitters is unacceptably high.

I don't need to Google that fact, I did it, plain and simple.

The culture of Crossfit accepts and even encourages injury and training with injuries.

There are better ways to get fit and keep fit other than spending half your time injured.

1. Do no harm.

Read it again.

Crossfit the methodology will get you into pretty good all around shape.

Crossfit GYMS and COACHES vary dramatically, and as a result so does the culture/environment they create to work in. The good ones will probably provide some of the best possible situations for training, the bad ones can be pretty bad about putting folks in positions to get themselves hurt.

Doing a mix of strength training with power & olympic lifting, HIIT, and some longer stuff intelligently will pretty much always work well. Intelligently being the key word there. Lots of folks are doing this and calling it Crossfit, and lots of folks are doing this and railing against Crossfit. The gym I currently go to did first one, then the other! I do their normal everyday programming most of the year, but have been doing a cycle right before hunting season where I do more long stuff and less strength training. One of the nice things that they offer is that they will customize programming to suit your goals/needs/injuries etc.

Answer this for me elk. Crossfit gyms are sole proprietorships, not franchises. The owners profit comes from paying customers, I'm not aware of ANY Crossfit gyms that require contracts. So, said gym owner's reason for existence is to cripple, maim, and kill all of his paying customers?

A Crossfit workout IS NOT SFAS, TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.

Pics?

Tabata. Try it. Works.

Use your body weight against itself. I am broken and find I cannot lift what I did without paying for it. If I use my own weight I can easily define my limits without breaking parts.

YOGA. It flat works. If your over 35 it works. IF your over 45 it really works... Bikram is killer but you will BENEFIT in all aspects of your life.

Spinning classes. You will love it. Die where you sit but love it.

Spartan classes. Again, using your own weight to manipulate yourself into shape on all fronts.

Use your head. If it hurts stop. Find something else that doesn't. I don't snap back wash after wash anymore. If I fork something up I am out for days or weeks. Ain't worth it!!!

Food. Waaaaayyyyy important.. Tons of water and just eat often and smaller portions. More in morning and tapering off early evening. Your body will like it.

Been mentioned but routine is the key to all of it. If you cant afford yourself this then it will not be nearly as effective. Do it. Dont look back..

Cheers

W

6 Days a week at gym seems a bit much. 3-4 tops. Your body does need some recoupe time...

W

I don't think a guy needs to enroll in a full on Crossfit course to get in shape to kick ass hunting elk, but some of the exercises involved are pretty awesome.

The ones I've found the most challenging/most rewarding in regards to strength and endurance gains are burpees, muscle ups, power cleans, kettlebell swings, and box jump circuits/variations. I do a lot of front-squats now, too.

But like Travis and Phil already stated, I really don't think it's necessary to jump headfirst into a full Crossfit program. A large majority of their movements and exercises definitely take time to build up to. It took me 2 years to even be able to do a muscle up, and I only weigh 170lbs....

I'm becoming a firm believer in the theory that nothing gets you in shape for the mountains like hiking them and pushing yourself while doing it. Hiking as often as possible and faster/further each time, coupled with strength training has really helped me out in overcoming asthma and becoming a little bit better hunter.

Tanner

Top tier world class Crossfitters work out three times daily. Rich Froning, the fittest man on earth, says he NEVER takes a day off. I ain't Rich. Crossfit's 3days on 1 off schedule took me a couple of years to get to where I could do it, even at the scaled/reduced level that I do the workouts. A lot of old guys do every other day, or maybe do non-crossfit stuff on your "off" day, like go for a non-killer walk with your pack. 20 or 30 minutes with a splitting maul is a "Crossfit" workout. As others have stated, inadequate rest and diet will short circuit any workout program.

A lot of people's "joint pain" isn't from actual soft-tissue injury. Diffuse aches are either osteoarthritis or merely inflammation inside the joint capsule or in a bursa. If you eat a lot of non-paleo, non-Zone meals your insulin levels will stay jacked up. This is often caused purely by the [bleep] for food that you eat. I still have joint pain in places from actual injuries, I no longer have the "aches" that I used to have that many complain of because I un-[bleep] my diet.

What Smoke said about working around injuries applies to Crossfit or any other program. I do pullups on pipes bolted to the top of my squat rack 90 to the rack, much easier on the elbows. I don't kip, and I don't drop to full extension like most Crossfitters do. Any rock climber knows this.

I like some of the home based DVD like T25 and walmart sells some cheap. P90X and insanity are a little much but you do not need to go all out when you do them. It is nice to just get out of bed and workout and be done.

"The ability to move large loads, long distances, quickly". Sound familiar? He didn't say ANYTHING about gay-azzed curls or the like.

Amen to that. That's why high country fishing season is in summer, before hunting, lets you ease into it. Any time you want to do some tune-up weekenders, let me know.




I have pretty bad osteoarthritis in one ankle from repeated injuries in HS and college, but that pain is there no matter what so it's not really worth mentioning, nothing you can do about that except learn to live with it and load up on Ibuprofen when you're doing something that counts. The shoulder and elbow are soft tissue injuries with MRIs to boot. I may end up getting surgery here soon on the supraspinatus and biceps tendons.

Cutting the crap out of your diet helps with a lot more than just inflammation though. Less body fat and more muscle means you're more efficient and that counts for a lot in the mountains, not to mention improvements in your overall health totally unrelated to humping loads up hills.

A person needs to go into extreme activities like Crossfit with their eyes open, understanding the risks. Over the holidays I heard about a guy, a good friend of a close relative, who fell while doing a Crossfit exercise (he was doing an exercise involving an overhead bar) and has what looks like serious permanent brain damage (was in the hospital for weeks and still isn't able to function even close to normally several months later, including not being able to work). The injury has forever changed his life and his family's life. My post isn't meant to indict Crossfit, but to give a real-life example of how doing extreme moves in a fitness routine can have serious long-term unintended consequences. The guy was a little accident prone before his serious workout accident, he pushed himself too far, and he and his family are paying the price. He could have fallen going free climbing on a rock face or snowboarding or doing some other activity, but he didn't - he fell in a gym (a "controlled environment") doing an activity that someone who is supposed to be an expert prescribed as being a safe and useful exercise. He went beyond what he was capable of doing - probably a combination of fatigue, clumsiness, and doing a move that was beyond his capability. No doubt many others have completed the move many times without any injury, much less serious and permanent brain damage, but one slip doing an extreme exercise changed his life forever.

Crossfit goes to extremes, and for getting in shape for hunting, Crossfit goes beyond what is required. For most people Crossfit poses risks more numerous and more serious than most people need to take to get into the shape they need to be in for their desired activities. If someone wants to do Crossfit to get into shape, then Crossfit could certainly help them do that, but the risks with Crossfit far exceed the risks of a lot of the suggestions others have made in this thread. Risk assessment and tolerance is a very personal decision-making process. In the past I had thought Crossfit was a pretty cool way to get in shape, but hearing about the personal tragedy of someone who is close to someone I'm close to changed my perspective.

Unless I have a goal or driving force my weight/health fluctuates greatly. About five years a go I went from ~228 to 150 pounds at my lightest. Uncle Sam (for the second time) was my motivation. Without being bashful, I will tell you I was a machine.

I changed my diet drastically, ran 3-8 miles almost daily and did lots of body weight exercises mixed with olympic lifts. Also, I spent A LOT of time/miles under a loaded pack and I can tell you that is a different kind of suck.

Flash forward. My weight has ballooned again with comfort and laziness. I was approaching the 225 mark again. A trip to Glacier and seeing my dad not being able to do the things he has always dreamed of stirred my motivation again.

I can tell you my body has responded quickly. Started running again and doing the body weight stuff. The biggest thing is changing my diet, particularly my liquid calories. In a month I am down to ~205 with a goal of ~165.

Listen to your body, don't push through pain. Don't fall for the fancy stuff, you have been equipped with all you need to reach your potential. Your mind and attitude are the most important part.

I agree completely!

Regarding the part I bolded, it's like any profession. Some are VERY good, many are good, and some are VERY bad. A good Crossfit coach is no different than any other type of 'trainer'; they will help you get in better shape. A bad one, whether they work in a Crossfit box or not will hamper you.

IMO/E a good coach/trainer will tailor or modify the workout for the person doing the work. This should happen, whether at a CF gym or not. Barring any physical injury, most all folks can do the same movements. Just some do them faster or with more weight. For example, Tanner can do muscle ups, I cannot. So if the workout calls for them he does them, I substitute jumping pullups and dips. We're still doing basically the same movements.

For most of us the "brand" of exercise we get is less important that getting exercise. However, if you do what was suggested in the first sentence of Carl's post, you'll get in better shape, regardless of how bad-assed you are right now.

My wife has taken care of patients that have been permanently dibilitated by chiropractors. Just like Crossfit coaches, some are good at what they do and some are not and sometimes bad luck just happens...

Heavy hands.

Use a treadmill. Find a comfortable walking speed. Buy a heart rate monitor. Maintain 75% of max heart rate. Control heart rate with the incline on treadmill (this works best for me, versus controlling with speed, I like a comfortable and consistent walking pace).

Start with 3 lbs in each hand and work up. Start at 25 reps, work up to 50 reps, then go up a pound.

Procedure:

Set your speed and incline on treadmill. You may have to adjust incline periodically to regulate heart rate. You will walk continuously throughout process.

Grab your weights and start walking. You will continuously hold/walk with the weights. There will be three different lifts. I have found 2 minute lift cycles to be best.

Lifts: Lateral Raises, chest flyes, shoulder presses

Use the first two minutes as warm up. When the treadmill timer hits 2:00 minutes do 25 (work up) lateral raises. Coordinate your lifts with your steps. At 4:00 minutes do 25 chest flyes, at 6:00 do 25 shoulder presses. At 8:00 start the cycle over.

Do 5 cycles which equals 30 minutes, then a 2 minute cool down for a total of 32 minutes. Do this five times a week.

With a treadmill at home, it doesn't get more convenient. Its easy to maintain indefinitely; a lifestyle if you will.

You will be absolutely amazed at the results. When you've worked up to 7 lbs and 50 reps at 6 incline with your heart rate still in range you'll be amazed at how light that rifle feels on the hill, and how the hill doesn't fill so steep anymore.

BTW, this was developed by a doctor who did extensive testing to find the most in shape athletes from a cardiovascular standpoint. His findings were that cross country skiers were the most cardiovascular fit. He attributed this to constant work with the hands at or above heart level, and thus developed this exercise.

It works.

Regarding treadmills

I've had three now. The first lasted about 2 years, broke down many times. Mostly covered on warranty but a month or more of down time in mid winter was aweful.

Second was a much more expensive unit, but not gym quality. It was about the same as the first, about 3 years. Or so, started tripping circuit breaker, and then died. Replaced electronics and motor and breaker and on so on.

Spoke with the service guy, and he said the residential models are good for a couple years of consistent moderate use or less with hard use. Hard use is 3-4 miles a day at 6-7 min miles. Full incline is lower stress on the equipment then level.

He repaired things under warranty and I traded it in to him for a fully refurbished hotel treadmill. This one is probably 300-400 pounds permanently lubed belt and built like a tank. Gave me a 3 year full parts and labor warranty and said it will never break or wear out no matter what I do on it. Kinda took that as a challenge!

Having been through this, I would buy a refurbished gym, hotel commercial model with a warranty. The residential models simply don't hold up

It works, huh? Works for what? To help you walk on a treadmill and wave your arms around? These are "gym moves", that will do little or nothing to "Enable you to move large loads, long distance, quickly."

"Functional movements are categorically unique in their ability to express power".

How is the "treadmill arm wave" going to help you powerclean your body weight? Deadlift twice your bodyweight? Run uphill fast to escape a fire? Pick up and don a 100# pack?

Anytime someone gives you a "dialed in", very specific routine for "fitness" and braggs about how it "works", all you have to do is pick something other than or far outside of that routine and have them do it for time to crush them. IE, 10 body-weight deadlifts, 400m run, three rounds for time.

Having said all the above, I would readily agree that ANY exercise beats the hell out of NO exercise, but be aware or docs with magic pills, and be aware of gimmicky workout programs that will produce athleticism without athletics.

Instead of me giving myself carpal tunnel from typing, if anyone actually gives a damn and wants to actually know more about crossfit, then go to the source:



Parts one and two are about 50min, and IMO, well worth your time

JJ, agree wholeheartedly on a quality treadmill. You most definitely get what you pay for. I didn't go as far as the commercial route because I didn't plan to run but I did go with an upper end Sole. So far so good.

A chiropractor got me over my last "crossfit injury" in 2013. My spine and especially my neck, feel like they/it did in my youth. Going to a chiropractor once a month, and occasionally going to a no-schit massage guy who knows how to dig and do deep-tissue massage (you don't go to this for fun or pleasure) can go a LONG way towards keeping you healthy and functional.

take a knee, it works for me. Have no desire nor need for crossfit. I know a couple of orthopaedics who say its darn good for business.

It may work for you, but "works for what" is a valid question if you're offering advice in response to a question on the backpack hunting forum, i.e., does it work for backpacking loads on uneven ground, up and down hills or mountains?

I see people kipping all the time, what's that about, just looks like cheating to me.

Yes.

Nothing wrong with a GOOD treadmill, especially those who live in snow country, but hands down, the best bang for your buck is a Concept II rowing machine. I bought mine used from the Univ of GA for $430, broke it down into two pieces, and put in my old Honda Accord and drove home with it. It is/was pretty beat up but still works great. When you are done working out, you just stand it up on its end, takes up just a few feet of floor space.

After a rower, I'd buy a good, hard-tail 26in mountain bike, with a QUALITY front shock. You bigger guys might want to consider one of the new 29in bikes.

Next I'd consider a treadmill maybe, but if you have deep pockets, get a stepmill. I just go to a gym nearby once every week or two and get on one.

Well, that's interesting since it appears to be a cardio and upper body workout, but doesn't strengthen the major muscles in your legs, back, and torso. I've worked with a few different talented trainers and when I told them my objectives were to be able to hump heavy loads in the mountains, they all focused on those areas as well as cardio.

"The ability to move large loads (you) long distance (arm flexion) quickly"

A kippping pullup is what it is, it isn't "cheating", it is a different excercise.

I was probably one of the biggest treadmill skeptics.

If you get a chance to get on one that will go to at least a 15deg incline, set the speed to 3.5-4 mph Don't touch the hand holds just walk up the incline hands free.

It's not going to injure you, or make your miserable. No joint damage, no impact. In 30 minutes, if you can make it that long without grabbing the hand holds you will have walked up hill 2 plus miles. And your sweat and heart rate will reflect this.

Certainly not perfect, but no one posting here is headed to the Olympic training center either. The biggest risk I find in training is working hard enough to create injury or soreness. This screws up my ability to do what the entire training and fitness process was intended to improve!

Over 40 a pull or sprain does not heal in days. It's a week or two. Get hurt worse then this and it's a month plus. In your 20s and 30s miss a few days or a week and your back to full fitness in a few days of workouts. Over 50 miss a week and you lose a month of fitness.

I can't speak to how much worse this gets over 60 yet, I'll let you know when I get there. The point is, that it's a fine line where training and fitness intersect with injury and the complete loss of fitness from the lost time required for healing. Then having to begin all over again when healed.

The phrase no pain no gain is no longer applicable to its full extent beyond about 45-50 years old. It's more about maintainable fitness, no longer competitive fitness. There are reductions in the chemicals produced in an older man. Those are critical to achieve maximum capacity. It's why injury and healing are so much different then in your 20s.

Anyone reading this in there early 30s to 40s should set the foundation for their older years now. Maintain bone density and muscle mass. It's much easier and better to maintain it for life then to attempt to create it at 50 plus years old.

I totally agree with JJHACK.

There are different ways to get it done, find what works best for you.

I still stand by my list of rules.

You will get returns from your workouts proportional to the effort you expend, if it is done properly. As for the Olympics, "The needs of our grandmothers and those of Olympic athletes differ by degree, not by type"


Cardiorespiratory Endurance
Stamina
Strength
Flexibility
Power
Speed
Coordination
Agility
Balance
Accuracy

These were defined by Jim Crawley and Bruce Evans, makers of Dynamax medicine balls. If you can come up with another attribute, let 'em know. Also, if you can figure out which of these attributes you have little or no need for in your silver years, you'd best be purchasing your long-term care insurance today, and like Glassman said in the vid I posted a link too, enjoy that green jello.

There are several different ideas and even thoughts about what exactly fitness is. Some are only concerned with "mountain" shape with little or to no regards in being fit for life.

One dimensional views of "fitness" very often result in failure. This happens because physical and mental stress in life are varied and not one dimensional.

Long time distance runners die of heart problems, are weak, injure easily, and suck at everything but near naked running in tennis shoes. The aerobic ability that they posses does not transfer over that well to the repetitive stop and go nature of carrying heavy things up steep inclines. For sure the endurance itself is beneficial, however there are much better ways to get there.


Crossfit is awesome and at the same time, horrible. The positive community atmosphere and motivation helps to get people engaged and keep them consistently involved. As well when done correctly and intelligently it offers great capabilities in fitness. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Crossfit gyms and "trainers" have no experience and knowledge of exercise physiology or competently coaching the Olympic lifts. The "trainers' encourage and at times demand through peer pressure that participants keep going to beat the clock even under atrocious form and outright failure. Crossfit fails itself by incorporating olympic lifts under the timer and doing them until muscle failure. That is when injuries happen, and my god they happen with Crossfit. More than any other exercise "system" in common usage. Because Crossfit purports that Crossfit as laid out with the WOD is the only fitness needed for everyone, they will not admit that as laid out Crossfit is not a one stop shop. In fact those with real history of producing phenomenal athletes, and even those with a bit of critical thinking ability, easily see the major flaws in their methodology and non prioritization. Yes, despite the non sense of CF HQ, prioritization is very important. Every single truly successful training program for every single task by mankind follows a crawl/walk/run sequence.



Now lest anyone think that I am anti Crossfit, I am not. I am anti stupidity and wholesale relinquishment of critical thinking skills in order to follow lock step. My own history of CF is like many others. I was introduced to it during the mid 2000's at work. I was in what I believed to be phenomenal shape. I remember thinking between blackouts during Fight Gone Bad, how bad A I was and that this shouldn't be happening to me. Following that I started doing Crossfit religiously. After 4 solid months of following the workout of the day, with every workout straddling that brink of puking and passing out, I really was in phenomenal "shape". I was by far the fastest of any that I worked out with, and my times were competitive regionally.

I also had reoccurring flu like symptoms, overuse (actually under recovery) injuries, and had plateaued physically. But CF swore that you can't plateau with CF, so I continued. At 6 months I started using my brain again. The love fest with the WOD stopped. I realized to get better that I needed to get stronger. That durability is a huge part of fitness and that your body can not recover and repair when going truly all out every workout, every day. Soon thereafter I was also introduced to another program that was researched, developed, validated and implemented by a sister organization with the help of the best coaches, organizations, and sports medicine professionals in the world. That program found that there was a lot right about CF and a lot wrong with Crossfit.


What Crossfit gets right is that too much specialization is suicide, Olympic lifts, pure strength and 'functional" fitness, high intensity training workouts, and anaerobic endurance.

What it gets wrong is technical Olympic lifts under time and fatigue, no knowledgeable coaches or training in those lifts, "holy chit" workouts everyday, training way past muscle failure everyday, inadequate recovery, inadequate raw strength, no prioritization.



I will post more later as I'm out of time, however I want those who believe that hiking in the mountains is the best thing for getting in hiking in the mountains shape, to think about that if doing a sport is the best way to get physically better at the sport, why does any professional sport have gyms and put so much emphasis on strength and conditioning?

Form, thanks for that post... Very helpful and constructive.

I think my saying that hiking the mountains is the best way to prepare for hiking hard whole hunting left a lot open for interpretation. Throughout the year I train as often as school and work permit, usually 5-6 days a week, and so far it has helped me immeasurably with the demanding physical aspect of mountain hunting.

But hiking, and hiking as hard as I can in the "off" season, I've noticed, has helped more with my hiking pace, how I breathe, how my muscles respond to heavy loads, and the mental part of ascending big verticals. Undoubtedly it aids in the physical endurance part, but I would not rely on hiking solely for that.
Thanks again for your post...

Tanner

I'm certainly no genius of fitness, but a couple of points:

Your needs are your own, and you don't need to justify what you do to anybody other than yourself and possibly a hunting partner that you need to keep up with. Standards are great, but many people are never going to be able to deadlift twice their body weight, and many of those people will be just fine. The same warning about "magic" workouts applies to "magic" standards such as this. Random "fitness tests" are fun too, but honestly I wouldn't put too much emphasis on them. You don't need to be the world's fittest man to carry a deer over your shoulders or pack a sheep off a mountain.

Along those same lines, you (living in your body every day) are in a unique position to know your particular strengths and weaknesses. So maintain your strengths and put some serious effort into your weaknesses. Most people do the opposite, and rationalize away their weaknesses. They "don't really need cardio" or "don't really need to be stronger". If that is really true, great - if not, why not focus on the things you need to improve on?

If you work yourself to the point of serious injury close enough to the season you can guarantee failure on a particular hunt. So, a little caution is in order, and Elkhunter_241 made that point well. A training injury in the winter may set you back a few weeks, but the same injury during late summer (for me) means that I don't go sheep hunting. That is not an acceptable risk for me. I tend to taper off a bit as a hunt approaches, for a couple of reasons. One is the injury thing, and the other is that I prefer go go into a hunt with a little fat on me, and I can't keep body fat if I'm working out with any regularity.

There is a difference between pain and injury. Pain is good for you. Not only is it an indication that you are pushing yourself, it conditions you to dealing with pain which many people are really terrible at. "No Pain No Gain" doesn't mean go out there and pull a hamstring but power though it. It means to push yourself. Listen to your body but don't be a pussy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I think the thing that most folks lack is a good endurance base. Think of fitness like a pyramid. The bigger your endurance base the higher you can build the pyramid. The way you build strength (height of the pyramid) is through interval training, the problem is you won�t see big gains in interval training unless you have a good base to build off of.

Cycling is probably the best way I know to build a big endurance base while keeping it low impact on the body(easy on the knees, etc.). How do you build a big base? You actually don�t go hard. You ride lots of easy miles for multiple hours at time. Literally for a few months, you don�t go hard, you just try to ride at a moderate pace for more than 2 or three hours at a time. This phase of training actually teaches your body to use fat as fuel source and not sugar/carbs. Fat is the endurance fuel. Sugar and carbs are short lived fuel sources. Also, you are increasing your mitochondrial density during this phase which will allow your legs to go for hours without burning out.

You can build a decent endurance base on a mountain bike, but it is difficult at times to keep your heart rate at reasonable level (but this depends on your terrain). Most Mountain bike racers do their easy base miles on a road bike. You can also do it on trainer, but you will need movies or something to keep you from going crazy.

If you do base miles for a few month and then start to do intervals you will be shocked at how fast your fitness grows. Mountain biking is the ultimate way to do intervals as the terrain typically forces you to peg your heart rate to get over tough sections. Once you have done intervals for a month, with lots of good rest days between the interval days, go back to a base training regime for another month. If you do this periodization a few times in a year you will be stronger than you ever imagined. If you feel you are run down and not gaining, got back to a base training phase and let the body recover. Then hit another interval phase, etc.

You can do this same regime hiking and running and it will have the same affect, but cycling seems to work very well.

If you have road bike use it! If you don�t, try to do your mountain biking on easier trails for your base building phase.

I have completed the Leadville 100 five times and this recipe works for me. Not to mention it has given me the ability to covers tons of miles hiking while elk hunting in Colorado without getting out of breath. This certainly helps when it�s time to pull the trigger and you aren�t gasping for breath!

I realize that base miles take a lot of time, but if you are serious about getting fit��..you need to do them! They will change your life��

I'd really like to see the quote from Glassman that says you can never "plateau" with Crossfit methodology. I think he knows about Milo and the calf.

So, your "other program" is Gym Jones?

"your body can not recover and repair when going truly all out every workout, every day" Surprise, surprise, Sgt Carter, who'da thunk it?

On the HOME PAGE under the WOD at the Crossfit site describing the WOD (Workout of the Day) is the quote, "Designed to challenge the world's fittest athletes"

The teaching point there is, if that ain't you, it might just drive your azz into the ground. That is why, over on the left column are the words START HERE. That will take you to Brand X's website, where everyday the WOD is scaled at 3-5 different levels. Also, a quote that appears there EVERYDAY is this, "Being unable to complete tommorrow's workout, because of what we did today, is not in line with our training goals."

Best advice in the thread so far.

Agreed, same here, but I thought that was obvious in your descriptions of the other stuff you do, besides hiking.




True, but I don't think anyone on this thread has advocated hiking in the mountains alone as the best way to get into mountain shape. It needs to be done in addition to any gym workout. Yes, professional athletes do strength and conditioning in the gym, but they also practice their sport most every day, which is much more than most "mountain athletes" can manage.

Okay Poot, post some data on your "power". Deadlift, powerclean, 400m run time etc. Better yet, deadlift your body weight ten times, run 400m three times for time. I can do it in a little over seven minutes, and my "cardio" sucks right now. I can stay on a bicycle for two hours without an issue as well.

If you put the seat back on you'd probably not enjoy it so much.


Travis

T_A_K, with all due respect, we're talking about hauling your ass around in the mountains. If Poot's program allows him to do the Leadville 100 multiple times, and "cover tons of miles hiking while elk hunting in Colorado without getting out of breath," who cares if he can deadlift his body weight ten times or run three 400M's? Is this the Crossfit forum?

Or to put it another way, "Okay T_A_K, post some data on your times for the Leadville 100"

That ain't EVER gonna happen. To be able to finish a 100 mile race and not be crippled, you've already long ago moved away from a scientifically definable definition of fitness. See the 10 attributes above.

So how many of those ten attributes listed above don't apply to humping a ruck around in the mountains?

Couldn't have said it better myself! Deadlifting tons of weight will build leg strength and a good stong core(which are important), but thats only part of the equatsion to being fit for long days in the field backpack hunting.

Endurnace base training will make you way more powerful in Crossfit. Every "fast 100 yarder and 400 yarder in the olympics does piles of base miles......there is no way to get that fast without em!

Most people are pitifully weak, and their situation does not improve with age. Strength does NOT come from endurance training of any kind.

Starting a program to remedy the strength situation does not get any easier with advancing age. If the OP has never done any meaningful strength training via full depth squats, deadlifts, standing press and power clean, then starting out at over 60YO might not be practical. Consider reading "Starting Strength" by Rippetoe - I think he deals with untrained older folk in the text.

"Hunting" is easy. Killing, processing, and packing out is the hard part where real training is helpful. There is no real big secret to mountain hunting preparation for hunting in real mountains with real chutes and slides and rocks and scree:

1. Maintain strength all year with barbell work 3 days per week. Your "workouts" should leave you a bit nauseous if you're doing it right. You won't get nauseous unless you are doing standing exercises with a heavily weighted bar on your back or in your hands (squats, deads, press, cleans). Other lifts and exercises are strictly and completely window dressing. You control ultimate size and strength gain with your diet. Proper technique is mandatory; do not rely on a "trainer" or crossfit gym to teach you to squat and clean. Get real familiar with a video camera and the rippetoe book, or find a real strength coach.

2. In the summer, train by hiking with and without weight on steep ground until your feet, ankles and calves are tough enough to last a hunt on mountains without blister or injury. Do this, and your "cardio" will have taken care of itself.

Crossfit as programmed on the mainpage is confused and misguided. Random training is an oxymoron. Crossfit games competitors don't train with crossfit mainpage programming, and that's a guarantee. You cannot build meaningful strength doing crossfit. Abz and arms don't give you meaningful strength. There is nothing wrong with training some or all of the movements offered in Crossfit, but do so in a manner that makes sense, not at random in a way that can hurt you. Don't do any of the crossfit high rep barbell work until the prescribed weights are PUNY to you.

I am not even close to being a freak physically. I weighed 220 pounds two years before my first LT100. I started doing tons of easy base miles and periods on intervals and I dumped 40 pounds in about a year and a half. Since then I just stayed with the program and I am still 180 pounds.

TAK, If you do a good period of base with your crossfit you will improve by 50% in crossfit. I guarantee This!! It makes that much of a difference.

weights and strength training during base mmiles is key as well. Lifting alone will do nothing for you with out some endurnace. Core strength and flexibility are crucial as well. You need to do enduance, weights, core and flexibility.

Um... Hell no, and no.










Um.... Again, no.




Chronic distance running is a disease and is just as bad, scratch that, worse than blind belief in Crossfit.

Poot,

what in backpack hunting is aerobic endurance in nature?

Flat out wrong! You dont think hiking, walking, running and biking don't build leg strength???? As long as gravity exists you are building lean mucle fiber in your legs doing endurnace activities.

EVERY elite athelete on the planet has some form of an endurance base or they can't just cant compete. Fast twitch atheletes like sprinters spend a lot of time doing endurnace base so they can train harder and faster than their competitors. endurnace improves your ablity to process oxygen, lactic acid and increases the blood stroke volume of your heart. The strongest men in the world can get that porwerful without thousands of brutal hours of lifting for long durations. You cant lift that many weights without having the endurnace to do really meaning full workouts!

No clue what you are talking about!

Its all endurnace and leg strength. If you hike one mile and sit on your butt, then I agree. But, typically long days in the field require long hours of walking and carrying a heavy pack. You can actually do this without hacking up a lung and for extended periods of time if you have endurnace.

But what if I drop the barbell on my head?

You can�t refute this. Every training manual on the planet talks about building a good cardio base. Why the hell do you think they run a million miles in basic training in the military!! They do it to build a huge base so these guys can get strong as hell and carry huge packs for days on end. You can�t �effectively� train your muscles without your heart and lungs being involved������.

I am heading out for a ride, it tends to clear the head too!

Some of what you post below is correct: I absolutely do not think that hiking, walking, running and biking build meaningful leg strength. My definition of strength may differ from yours, and I will reiterate that most people (and most "fit" people) are pitifully weak.

Then 10 BW deads/400m x 3 should be a cakewalk.

It would be a big improvement. Maybe.

A couple of observations. The OP sounds to be an older guy, just getting back into it, and hunts in the west. Which translates into altitude, most likely. There's no doubt in my mind that he can benefit from both cardio and strength training, it's not an either/or proposition.

Absolutely, you need strength to backpack. And without a doubt, if it's in the mountains your cardiovascular system will be taxed and you'll be sucking wind at some point, with your heart rate maxed out. Probably at many points. So the more efficient your cardio is, the better you'll do.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that insufficiently tough feet and lower legs have stalled more hunts than lack of strength or wind ever did...

If feet are trained to be tough enough, cardio has taken care of itself.

One last thing to point out. If you only do crossfit for example, you are training your heart to go to between say 75% of max heart rate and to max heart rate for that given workload. Your body gets used to that and its spikes to that heart rate. If you �improve� your cardio base, you can now do that same workload at 50% or 60% of max heart rate. Guess what, now when you do take it up to 80% of max heart rate you are going to lift more weight, faster and longer than before. You aerobic engine supports everything! Too much lactic acid brings muscles all muscles a grinding halt. A strong cardio system processes more lactic acid than a weak one�.

The other reason that periodization works is you are upsetting your routine and keeping the body guessing, so it adapts to the new stimuli. If you do the same stuff over and over, it doesn�t adapt. Going from periods of high intensity to periods long easy endurance base miles keeps the body guessing and it builds to handle the different types of workloads��

This isn�t voodoo, there are millions of athletes that follow this regimen to get faster, stronger, better.

Especially as you get older, lots of guys never work on lower legs at all and that's where a lot of your balance and ability to negotiate rough ground comes from. I think what you said about hiking on steep ground to toughen your feet and lower legs (cardio taking care of itself) also works in reverse too though, maybe to a lesser extent.



That is going out on a limb, my experience here in CO at 10 K is, a lot of guys can't go long or hard enough to put blisters on their feet because their lack of cardio won't let them.

I think you said the most important thing of all! You need to do multiple things to get fit. As I said before, Cardio(endurnace), strength and flexibility. Its a three leg chair. If one is weak that chair falls over. Howevever they build from the ability for the body to do work, which stems from endurnace. You cant lift a weight or do planks and strtch if you are wheezing and about to barf.

You lost me with your logic......or lack thereof....

Are you sniffing at challenge! You sure you want to go there?

Poot,

You do realize that aerobic endurance and leg strength are very different things, correct?


Sorry brother, I do have a clue. Physical fitness is a HUGE part of my job. Interesting that you cite olympians, as the US Olympic center had a pretty solid hand in that "program" that I mentioned. The needs of the users of it share a very strong correlation to the needs of backpack hunters in a lot of ways. Over emphasis on aerobic endurance and conditioning was stated by them to be the #1 reason for injuries and decreased performance.







No, it does not. Muscles (and bone, ligaments and tendons) respond to stressors or loads placed on them. So while a sickly, malnourished Saharan African looking person that has never done anything physical in their life might build leg "strength" by "putting in the miles running, really you are conditioning the muscles to repetitive flexing, contraction and pounding. They will not get "stronger" until more stress (read: weight) is placed upon them.










This creates muscle only big enough and strong enough to support body weight. And since more muscle mass is not as efficient for 100 mile runs, you lose pure muscle tissue. A casual glance at endurance runners will show.













Not true. At least not aerobic endurance.







Categorically laughable. Do you have any idea what sprinters do?







Again, not true. If you had ever been strong and had experience in power lifting you would know that your statements are ridiculous.

And dashed MANY dreams at SFAS. Another thing I learned from the Crossfit site. I didn't have a CLUE how to run properly. My form sucked. I taught myself proper POSE running form and now I can do 5-8K in skinny-azz little minimal shoes that would cripple many "recreational" runners. Landing on the balls of your feet uses the tissues in your lower legs as springs, instead of relying on foam rubber. I no longer get running injuries, and I NEVER run two days in a row. want lower leg "strength"? Get to where you can do 8min miles barefoot or in Five Fingers or New Balance Minimus shoes.

Pure biological BS, with zero basis in the reality of how ATP is made and utilized. You are living in 1972 dude. Prefontaine is dead. So is Jim Fixx

There ain't much game in WA above 8000'. Reduce that to ~6000' in AK. The spine of the rockies is unique in regards to game at elevation.

Ability to work at elevation has a large adaptation component to it. I schooled in Bozeman (4800') and traveled from there to play a ball game in Laramie (7200') at it was rough for us. Can't imagine coming from the coast to play there. I can throw things into saltwater from my back patio, and as such, hunting in MT this fall at 9000' was rough at first, but noticeably less rough a few 3000' gain days later.

Again, standards:

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.htm

Takes about 6wks to mostly adapt to altitude. You get most of the way there in 2wks. A good guideline is your resting pulse lying in your fartsack relaxed. Mine is always in the mid 50's. At 8000ft in MT summer before last it was in the low 80's after gaining altitude most of that day.

All lies, prove it.

If I buy a new Roush Mustang, take it out on the track, and put the pedal to the metal, oblivious to [bleep] like understeer, oversteer, and just basic physics, and slam on the brakes and smash that fooker into the wall in turn two on the first lap, does that mean the engineers at Ford, Roush, and Bembro brakes have [bleep]-for-brains?

Wow, this really became science ego and testosterone pumped!

How about get off the couch, put down the remote and stop buying chips or eating FF.

It's so funny to read that I need to train for some super fitness levels to hike and hunt I. The mountains.

Interesting that my entire adult career as a hunting guide in Alaska, Idaho, and Washington, then moving to Southern Africa never involved training that required dedicated formal weight training, triathlon training, marathon training, or working so hard that it was an injury prone event.

This is now 22 years professional hunter in Africa, and prior to that 12 years in the PNW guiding. 30ish years in a row without the need to pound myself into shape with relentless dedication.

If your backpacking is going to be 10 -20 plus miles in a weekend with maximum loads off trail your in a very small percentage of folks. I've had hunters that were absolutely successful at advanced ages and over weight. They struggled over areas, and in some cases looked scary sick pale sweaty and exhausted. Never had anyone die on me yet.

When the clients call and ask about the fitness level needed I just tell them to be in the best fitness they can get into and we will hunt within their capacity. Truth is, I've had the greatest failure to continue from two issues and neither has been Olympic athlete fitness levels.

Problem one, has been soft feet and new boots. That mixed with stubborn guys that think they can walk through the hot spot and not stop to fix it early don't recover well the rest of the hunt.

Problem two, raw thighs. Some of the biggest toughest pro athletes that have massive strength and fitness, fail on day one when their inner thighs are just raw. Had one big guy wrap them in duct tape. Many of these guys have shown me an amazing thing. They have a level if training diet and fitness unmatched with NFL coaches and dietitians. Yet half way up a steep hike they appear to be suffering badly. They have unmatched power and strength. But all that body mass without the real aerobic base just kills them. Some were 10-15 years younger then I was at the time.

Elevation kills these big guys, with steep continuous climbs.

No doubt there's an adaptation component to altitude. That doesn't change the fact that most people's cardio capacity will be taxed or maxed at altitude, and the better their cardio conditioning, the better they'll do.

You are taking my point to an total extreme. I am saying your body cant perform work without without the cardio system to support it. No question a power lifter does less cardio that a Kenyon runner, but how do you do meaning ful workout if you can't process lactic acid.

You are in over your head. Quit while you're ahead......

You are spot on! The cardio capacity it takes to propel a man of that size up a hill is huge. For backpack hunting a little cardio and losing a few pounds goes a long way..............

Okay Mr Phys, in what organelle is ATP made? How's your google fu?

Someone else said it- come out of 1972. I would suggest some research into what you think you know about how much running the military does now. Also google RAW PT and see what that produces....

But I'll make it easy for you- military organizations do not value long distance running like they used to. One of the biggest reasons that we still do it as much as we do now is because it is easy and mindless, takes no knowledge to perform and because of dinosaurs that refuse to learn. The extreme focus of aerobic endurance is fading as the old school retires.


I am not saying that people don't need aerobic endurance, however if you look at it like a pyramid, it is closer to the top than strength, power, and power endurance.


And, rucking with a pack is more anaerobic endurance rather than aerobic endurance.

I don't think Vek is saying you need to be "super-fit" to backpack hunt, he's merely saying you need to not be a weakling. I'm still a "weakling", have been most of my life. I used to think lifting weights was stupid, I was nearly forty before I wised up and didn't really have a clue until about five years ago, now, at 54, I'm at or within 5-8 pounds of Rippetoe's Intermediate level on all the major lifts except the power snatch as I don't train that one often.

Okay, I've got another little test for you. Load 95# on a barbell, walk out into the yard with it. Do ten lunges, dipping that trailing knee all the way to the ground each lunge, drop the bar and hop from one side of the bar to the other ten times. Then clean the barbell and repeat five times. If you can do that without stopping, you might have passable muscular endurance in your legs.

"And, rucking with a pack is more anaerobic endurance rather than aerobic endurance."

Anerobic endurnace burns suger and carbs...... these short term fuels only last so long before you bonk. Aerobic endurnace burns fat, much better longer sustainable fuel. If you are rucking for multiple hours/days its NOT anerobic! That is not sustainable. Base building teaches the body to burn fat as a fuel. This is fact!

Fact. The 5-mile a day in Cocoran boots, smoke a pack of Winstons and party until formation crowd is long gone. After 20yrs of that, a 38yo looked 58, and typically walked with a limp.

Humping even a day pack load in full kit still places over 90# on your spine, most of it is also on your shoulders unlike a Kifaru or Dana pack. The military has long ago figured out the average GI is far too weak to do his job, and he doesn't have adequate endurance either.

Easy!!!!


Get on a stationary bike and hold 400 watts for five minutes. You likely last one minute and blow lunch on yourself.........

Not true. It depends on the Div. A guy I race with was special forces. He is probably one of the best ultra trail runners in the country. He learned this skill from his training in military. His Div consisted of guys that could cover tons of miles with no support and with heavy packs. There were "no" big guys in his div..... couldn't keep up. All dark haired guys of medium build with no distinguishing marks on the body. This scrawny guy is freaking animal....

First off Poot, there are no "Divisions" in Army SF, never have been, never will be. As far as guys who can cover beaucoup miles being carressed by ALICE, I've got the [bleep] T-shirt. You are right, there were few really big dudes in SF back in the day, but that was mostly because of parachutes coming in one-size-fits all, they didn't tend to have a long career as paratroopers. As for what US Army SF is doing for PT these days, I give you the THOR:

http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/mission-save-you

This thread is about how to get fit for backpack hunting. It has gone way off course!

The fact is you need to do training. For strength , cardio and flexibility to be well rounded.

If you do long days in the woods with lots of elevation gain, there is only one day to prepare for that. By doing activities that approximate that workload for similar durations. Duration being the key! Can you get fit by doing cross training, hell yes. But, good luck holding that workload for 8 hours. Your body isn't trained to use fuel in an aerobic capacity for that duration. There is a book called "time crunched cyclist". It talks about by doing short high intensity workouts, you can build a strong engine and good power for races up to three hours, but for activities longer than that you have to do solid base mile work to sustain aerobic performance. If you are anaerobic on your backpack hunts for multiple hours you will crater.

The "only" way to hike for days on end and remain efficient and remain under you lactic threshold, Is by training your aerobic system and burning fat for fuel!! Sorry guys, these are the facts! You think people train for the Tour de France by doing one hour spin classes and cross fit? By the way those skinny little guys lift weights all winter and do ten billion miles of base to maintain leg strength and their engine.

To the OP, sorry we crapped all over post. Weight training and good solid base training will serve you well. Not to mention you will feel better and live longer.

To you other two, let's call this done. We will never agree!

So, cut to the chase TAK, just how big is your pecker, LOL.

Do a survey of successful backpack hunters. Ask how many do crossfit. I'm sure there will be a few.

Sorry dude, I didn't get that t-shirt so I have my terms wrong. I will tell you I love my country and it respect and thank each and everyone of you that has served our great country. For that I am greatful!

I haven't looked at THOR, but I bet there is lots of sub-threshold activities that go on for hours.....

For what it's worth, I am sweating on my I-pad while on the spin bike. I feel better already...

Stoolhead always tells me "SMD" but he never asks ME about my privates, WTF?

LOL, I wasn't asking about your privates, it was a rhetorical question. I was asking why you always seem to get in dick-measuring contests.

Let's see, an older guy who is admittedly out of shape and wants to get "back into" a training routine asks a question about that subject, and you manage (once again) to get in a few references to your past SF training, and what "world-class athletes" do.

So here's my non-rhetorical question: WTF does SF training (not many older guys in there, I'd hazard a guess) and what "world class athletes" do have to do with the guy's question?

It's as if a guy on the hunting rifles forum asked what he'd need for 200 yard shots on whitetails and you went off on a tangent about what 1,000-yard benchrest shooters do.

So you have the T-shirt for SF training. Thank you for your service, but I think that's another thread.

True, to a point, but let me explain why Crossfit, or something that LOOKS like Crossfit, RAW, THOR, Mtn Athlete, Gym Jones ETC, ETC should be your "fall back" conditioning program.

ATP, adenosine-tri-phosphate, is the "currency of life". You only have enough for the next ten seconds. This isn't a problem 'cause your body, specifically your cells, and more specifically the organelles called mitochondria inside all of your cells, are making ATP constantly.

What do you think happens in a workout like "Fight Gone Bad", three five minute rounds of full-body movement, ending with one minute on a rower. You get a one-minute break/rest between each five-minute round, to lay on the mat on your back and gulp air. 17min from the time you started, the agony ends, and if you are going for broke, it doesn't matter if you are a 60yo granny scoring 150pts or if you are Rich Froning scoring 500pts, it sucks equally bad.

The next day, your body responds to this profound hypoxia (marked lack of oxygen in tissues) by up-regulating enzymes to MAKE MORE MITOCHONDRIA. THIS is why Crossfit, or something like it, does what running, bodybuilding, and "easy" weight-training on machines can never do.

Recovery, after a workout, is trainable, IE, it improves and you "bounce back" to a point, this is determined by your genetics and whether you've got sense enough to realize the fact that your resting pulse having gone up 20bpm might indicate that doing Fight Gone Bad might not be a good plan today, even though that is today's WOD.

Being to stupid to realize that even though you can barely grip the rope, climbing up a 20ft manila rope one more time, and falling and breaking your neck, might just be what you deserve. There is a fine line between HARD and STUPID. If you can' t see it, maybe Crossfit ain't for you.

I'm glad Vek weighed in a brought up Rippetoe's Starting Strength book. If you are a weak, scrawny fook, that is where you should start. A no-sch!t barbell, like a York or Pendlay, a set of bumper plates (Hi Temps from Tuscumbia AL are the best) and a squat rack is an investment in your future health and vigor.

Learn to run, learn to run on the balls of your feet (POSE), do it hard and fast (after a thorough warmup, see the "fine-line" above), then add distance.

Buy Dr. Kelly Starrett's book, "Becoming a Supple Leopard". Learn those movements BEFORE you ever set foot in a Crossfit gym. THOSE are the standard, quality movement is never really negotiable, and those who say it is, are FOS.

Vek says the basic barbell lifts (press, clean, squat, deadlift) are enough, and I agree. The snatch is "gymnastics with a barbell" as Rip says. I can't do 'em due to a neck injury, so I don't worry about them.

Crossfit trains/plans for the "unknown and the unknowable". Well a mountain hunter does know when the season starts, he should have a pretty good idea how deep into the woods he's going and how much altitude he'll gain. So, some periodization is indicated. Crossfit itself does this with alternate workout programs like Crossfit Football, Crossfit Endurance, and others.

Gym Jones founder, Mark Twight, was an early convert to Crossfit, had a spat with Glassman, and does his own thing now at Gym Jones in UT. Different, but it looks a hell of a lot like Crossfit. He believes however, in some degree of periodization, and I'm of the same opinion.

"How to train like a Navy SEAL" author Stew Smith also does a bunch of stuff that looks an awful lot like Crossfit, except he also believes in periodization, just like Twight. His plan, and he's been doing this for years and is well into his forties and still a beast, is this:

1)LIFT, and little else, from New Years day or so until you peak/no longer progress. I'd reccomend Rip's Starting Strength program for 8wks.

2)Start doing Crossfit, and still do the major lifts each at least once weekly

3) After a couple months of this, start incorporating runs and or rucksack walks (the latter of course if you are getting ready for a mountain hunt in AUG or so).

4) Go hunting, get to the range, and maintain fitness, with a priority on making sure gear, boots, etc are dialed in during your walks. Try to Crossfit or lift a couple days each week.

Rinse and repeat.

Eat most meals according to Zone principals, eat as many Paleo meals as possible. Limit alcohol to no more than 2-3 ounces daily, and daily ain't a good idea.

I'll gladly clue you in. Backpack hunters hump heavy azz packs around in mountains. SF troops hump heavy azz packs around in mountains, the latter tend to be in their 30's, good athletes but certainly or hardly ever "world class". The fact that subject matter experts hired by the DOD to fix the Army's worthless PT program for SF soldiers came up with something that looks a lot like Crossfit, should be what is known as a "clue".

While I may have referenced "world class athletes" I also brought up the point, repeatedly, that the needs of "world class athletes" and our grandmothers differ by degree, not by kind. One more time:

Cardiorespiratory Endurance
Stamina
Strength
Flexibility
Power
Speed
Coordination
Agility
Balance
Accuracy

When the above capacities/traits diminish enough, someone else will be wiping your azz for you. You have obviously not clicked on the link to Glassman's lecture that I provided above, do so instead of bloviating about something you are clueless of, educate yourself.

Categorically laughable. Do you have any idea what sprinters do?






Sorry, I can't let a dead horse lay, but I am compelled to respond to the this comment about it being �categorically laughable� that sprinters would ever do any form of base �aerobic� endurance training.

I found some training regimes for 100m and 400m sprinters that include �Base Aerobic Training�. This first link is from the track coach at Baylor University and he lists �Develops Aerobic base� as item number 4 in his list of training protocols. He must be a �categorically laughable idiot� that clearly has no clue what he is doing�������..

http://www.ncacoach.org/uploads/Ford.pdf

http://www.cityhighruns.org/wtrack/AthletePage/AthletePageMisc/SprinterOff-Season.htm

You are thick as a brick. The OP doesn't want to train like a navy seal, he wants to have long productive days in the field with a backpack on.

A cross-fit class for someone that might be relatively new to exercise is a bad idea. Easing into things by doing some base training and light interval work is far better course of action. Once he has a base and feels fit enough, he can try a cross fit class.

There is no question that short high intensity workouts like cross fit will improve aerobic capacity. But, that is only to a point. There is not a substitute for duration. You and all your googling about ATP and mitochondria. Guess how you build mitochondrial density? By doing sub threshold.....over distance training for a longer duration. Fire up Google there Googleboy and tell me what you find�����..

You seem to think I am a scrawny little weakling. You know nothing about me. You have no idea how many freaking hours I have spent in a weight room training for High school Football, Hockey and track. Not to mention I lifted all through college for Hockey. You know how I played D1 Hockey? By being well rounded physically and having a damn good aerobic and anaerobic engine.

I no longer way 220 pounds or have the muscle mass up top that I did when I was young, but I think I am pretty fit at 180 pounds. Being 40 pounds lighter is perfect for the sports I like. Cycling, climbing and hunting���..


There is more than one way to skin a cat�.

I guess I'm just a lost soul here.

I thought this was about getting in better shape for hunting season. After reading this it seems more like the training needed for a mountain survival race gone bad and now a fight for life survival training plan. WOW!

Is the focus here the ultimate fitness possible, with a side dish of hunting thrown in? Or was the original intent actually hunting?

+1

I am part of the problem and I cant disagree with your comments JJ! Thanks for bringing us back to earth!

JJ, when Augustus McCrae, right before the "buffalo chase" scene, told his hapless sidekick, who'd just opined how he couldn't understand why Gus wanted to chase buffalo, said, "It ain't dyin' I'm talking about, its LIVIN' ".

Crossfit, or something approximate, combined with functional strength training, is ABOUT LIVIN', IE, staying vital, ABLE to go hunting.

Sixty year old grandma crossfitters, are CROSSFITTERS still, and they ain't SEALS or PJ's, but they are still CROSSFITTERS.

So, the next person who equates "Crossfit" to Navy SEALS, and NAVY SEALS ALONE, you demonstrate to the world that you are fundamentally ignorant of the principals of CROSSFIT, and before you opine to the world about CROSSFIT, you might should investigate it, starting with that link I provided above to Glassman's lecture on the "Purpose of Crossfit" Pt I & II, or just youtube that and it'll come up.

P90X!

Been doing it for almost a decade as needed - you don't have to think, just do what Tony tells you. I'm fit for life because of it, and all I have to do is not stop...

I should add though that really long duration outputs (say, 8 hour difficult hikes) are not really trained for in P90X. I just don't have the time to walk long enough to build up that kind of stamina for hunting season ahead of time, because I can't see really accomplishing that without really long workout sessions... So that's a bit of a gap. But overall you will be very fit on P90x. Just start slow lol...

Time is short for all of us, so there is no flys on short high intensity workouts like p90x or crossfit. Crossfit has taken off because it lets busy people get a great workout in one hour before work. You will see benefit from these workouts, no question. It's a bitch in our busy lives to find 3 hours to do a good hike or a ride on a bike. Chris Carmichael, (Lance the doper's coach) says in the absence of duration, intensity is the next best thing. The problem is you can't do high intensity every single day as a newcomer to structured workouts. You will likely overtrain and get sick and or go backwards in performance. I do tons of high intensity workouts, but I have a foundation(base) that allows me to handle that strain and get stronger.

To the op, start out at lower intensity workouts for longer duration if possible. Then add in some intensity, back off when you feel like you not getting better or feel unwell. Go back to base training for a bit and then add in intensity. Go back and forth and you will see benefits.

Often times when things are busy I will do a few short high intensity workouts during the week with a day off between to recover and then try to get a long ride or a long hike in on the weekend. Try to keep from getting anaerobic on the long hike. Let the short high intensity workouts during the week train your anaerobic system and let the long moderate intensity hike build the aerobic base.

Hope this helps.

For the real people here who just want to hike and hunt into their 50s, 60s(59, almost there), and 70s, the advice of JJHACK, Elkhunter 241, and a few others others are spot on. I'm surprised the "I run 40 miles a week" bunch hasn't chimed in yet. If you love/need to run, have at it. If not, there are far better and safer ways to get into hunting shape.
The guys that are claiming all these great physical abilities are either a)genetically gifted athletes by birth b)have trained really hard and smart despite not being "a)", or c)full of sh#t. You decide.
Me, I'm just a very average guy whose spent most of my life working physically hard to make a living. I'm in it for the long haul and know my limitations and goals. I'll see you up on the hill when I'm 70.
Just eat right, get off your ass and exercise, and enjoy hunting within your abilities.
Steve
PS to JJHACK: When that long lost relative leaves me with a huge inheritance, I'll book my first, last and only African safari with you. You come highly recommended by a mutual acquaintance.

You're right, I have not clicked on the link to Glassman's lecture. But when I go to the gym, I do stuff that 95% of guys half my age don't even attempt, including "fight gone bad." I just don't think it's germane to the question the OP asked.

And as far as "getting a clue," here's what I packed out a few months ago, solo, 4 miles in, a couple thousand feet above the trailhead, right at 11K. And similar loads the ten years prior. You want to talk "bloviating about something you are clueless of," let's see what you've packed out lately, on an actual backpack hunt:

You need a young dude for those hauls, Smoke...

Tanner

Nice elk smokepole.



Travis

nice pic smokepole

those spruce blowdowns exhaust me just looking at 'em (and they don't look too thick in that photo)
a couple of miles of climbing thru beetle-kill dark timber in Colorado is definitely the workout of the day!

Thanks guys.

Lost Arra, the blowdown was manageable, worse in some areas but for the most part I could pick my way through without having to step over too much of it. The part that was a little hairy was getting down to the trail, it was pretty steep. The first load, I took a "shortcut" and did not repeat that route. I now pay more attention to the muscles that help control a steep descent.



Well dammit, if you'd listen to Glassman's lecture, and get a clue, I might consider it.....

PS, I'm off to take the dog on his run, we go about 3 miles. The wife took him to the groomer yesterday evening so he's seriously pissed, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple squirrels bite the dust this morning.....

Great elk Smokepole! A decent bull is more than a few trips with pack:-) Nice work!

I'm sorry,it was really rude of me to suggest a program to others that would improve every human biometric, IE, B/P, HgA1C, and the ten attributes of fitness, that as long as one possesses them they can wipe their own azz and stay out of a nursing home. That was very thoughtless of me.

So your vaunted trainer has you doing Crossfit workouts, but I'm an azzwipe for suggesting Crossfit? Got it. Pardon the F outta me.

GFY Smoke

Awesome pics, TAK.



Travis

He left them at Bigsqueeze's house.

No, the rude part was when you said I was "bloviating about something you are clueless of."

The subject is training for backpack hunting, I was just trying to get you back on track, so you could talk about backpack hunting. For a change.




Actually, I've worked with a number of different trainers including a power lifter who's held state records, and guy working on his MS in exercise physiology who made the Denver Broncos practice squad as a defensive end, and signed with the Bills this year. He could squat more than 500. The salient point is, I've been working out in the gym for years now, unlike the OP.

If you go back and read his post, he's at least 60 and getting back into shape. So no, I did not recommend crossfit. Come to think of it, neither did the power lifter or the D-lineman, the crossfit was with another guy.

My fitness routine consists of carrying my ax.... in the classic sense of course

That must be one big-a** axe! Either that, or you're not really a backpacker.

I still want to hear about Formidilosus' program. The physical ability it took for his elk hunt was impressive.

I've been doing squats, bench, and running. Not the most glamourous workouts, but I can really see the different when toting my heavy saw up hillsides to cut firewood or tossing big rounds up on my shoulder to haul back to the truck.

My biggest issue always was that no matter how much "cardio" and bodyweight exercises I did, I was never strong enough to carry a 30lb pack up 2k+ feet in elevation without my legs getting fatigued and my cardio basically not being enough. (off trail) Hoping as I get my legs stronger, I'll be able to do steady climbs up steep mountains without being wiped out and soaked in sweat when I get to the top.

I'd like to read that thread, do you remember where it is?

Always good to hear "what works" from people who put the theory into practice.

You mean by serving your country....?

Be advised, its bastardized Crossfit. The barbell advice varies from passable to "sucks balls". The advice on running form totally FUBAR:

www.25idl.army.mil/PT/rawptguide_bp.pdf‎

[/quote]All dark haired guys of medium build with no distinguishing marks on the body. [/quote]

This is hysterical. If you ever hung around any Dam Neck guys, you'd think you were at a tattoo convention.

This is hysterical. If you ever hung around any Dam Neck guys, you'd think you were at a tattoo convention. [/quote]

Like I said, Poot is living in 1972. At one time you could not be assigned to DET A in Berlin if you had a tat ANYWHERE. I've never worked around ST 6 guys, but the other SEALS are pretty much tatted up.

No, I mean by going on actual backpack hunts, killing big game animals, and hauling them out on one's back. The subject of the OP's post, and the subject of this forum, the backpack hunting forum.

Listening to anyone who doesn't do it opine on the subject is about like listening to a female NFL commentator talk about what it takes to play in the NFL.

She appears to know what she's talking about, and makes sense most of the time, but I'm not all that interested in her opinions.

Because she never played the game.

The "game" huh? Got it....as opposed to doing [bleep] that isn't a "game".....like unazzing a helicopter with a five gallon water can in each hand, and carrying it for a mile, along with your 90# pack. You're right, that means I probably don't know [bleep] about your "game".

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8333940/1

I think squats are the most important lifting exercise for backpacking. I've trained for hunts by simply running (I've run a marathon), Px-90 and by combing lifting (Starting Strength) and hiking w/pack. The lifiting/hiking combo proved to be the best overall exercise. Running alone left me weak - unable to push with a pack. PX-90 left me in my worse cardio shape in years. My current program is to lift three days a weak with 2-3 days of hiking w/a pack. I've started including HIIT sprints into the mix but my long distance running days are over.

Exactly. You talk a good game though.

When I was a kid, I helped my dad in the fields, planting all kinds of stuff including sweet potatoes. When you plant those, you have to water 'em in with a lot of water. The well was a few hundred yards from the patch, and the water got there in five-gallon buckets, carried by yours truly.

Back and forth for 3-4 hours at a time. I was around 12 then. I was an expert on what it takes to backpack hunt, and never even knew it.

My dad by the way was a decorated WWII vet. Presidential Unit Citation for the Battle of Kilay Ridge. Same with my older brother, decorated for valor in Viet Nam. I've always been extremely proud of those guys. Especially the way they comported themselves whenever the subject came up.

My dad never wanted to talk about it. He'd just shrug his shoulders and say "that's what everybody did, it was nothing special." But the framed Citation on my office wall says different, his unit captured a ridge in the rear of the Japanese position and they were desperate to re-capture it. Hand-to-hand combat and under constant fire for 20+ days in a row. I keep it there to remind me of him and his sacrifices. My brother would only reluctantly dissuss his exploits, and only when prodded. That's the thing I'm most proud of.

bry, thanks for the link. I always enjoy reading about actual backpack hunts.

Try adding Tabata squats once weekly to your routine. 20seconds of squats, 10seconds rest, eight rounds. I do 14 squats per round. As for what a squat should look like:



But really, this doesn't have anything to do with going to gay-azz CO and killing an elk, but it might keep you out of a nursing home, not that that would be an important consideration.

You're right, this probably has more to do with jumping out of helicopters like you said, rather than going on an actual backpack hunt, for an actual big game animal.

Then by all means, don't do it then. You should load 405 and go squat it cold, then go climb a cliff, swim a river and sharpen your knife with a rock, then stick it up your azz.

I would, but I just stuck it up yours. "It" is no longer available.

But don't let that stop you now, you're on a roll.

L-A-M-E

Your favorite fabric?

Brymoore,

Agreed during my hockey years in college my hiking was astonishing. Coach had us doing insane levels of bike work

After that point in my life I took up running. Lots of miles, I enjoy running. However hiking suffered very bad.

Running is not gonna help leg strength unless it's all up hills. Went back to mountain biking and the legs came back. Still like running just for the pure enjoyment of it. But biking will develop the same muscles hiking and hockey require.

Well said JJ. Luckly, I quit running when I moved here. And I had found the same things you did. Alot of running, even if it is 4 miles plus in 45 mins even in 100 degree weather simply doesn't compare to walking up and down. Today, I use a trail that's 1.1-1.2 miles long and drops 900 ft. I do it twice, about three times a week. On off days, I do some weight training, etc. I try my best to follow the Federal Food Guidelines.
I rarely get even a head cold. When I'm in Montana, elk hunting, and I'm reasonably rested, I can go all day and any place I want to go.
But, as I approach 70, I can't do it day after day. My general rule is two tough days, or maybe three days at less than wiped out, and I need a day off. More than that is OK too. I can go at least a week w/o any kind of workout and not loose anything. But after two weeks, I'm down some in performance.
Probably the biggest thing I've learned about staying in shape is that you need to know when to back off and make yourself do it. If it hurts, really hurts, you have gone too far. Pray it heals allows you to continue. Sometimes it will. But, if it doesn't, make yourself rest so the damage can heal. For me, that can be really hard. I love being active.
Anyway, interesting thread. E

Mark Twight trains on an Airdyne and rides a road bike up a mountain pass but he's not from CO, probably never killed an elk, therefore he don't know [bleep] about getting around in the mountains.

http://www.gymjones.com/gym/disciple/1/

I bet if you asked Mark Twight what it takes to backpack hunt, he'd say, " I've never done it, but I'm an expert".......

Worth the time to read.

http://www.maxwellsc.com/blog.cfm?blogID=90

http://www.maxwellsc.com/blog.cfm?blogID=70

CrossFit encourages over training

Exercising too intensely, too often, promises only diminished returns. CossFit programming employs short, intense workouts--which can be a good thing. I'm a fan of high intensity training protocols (HIT).

The problem is the CrossFit workouts are scheduled too frequently--and without employing adequate recovery. I've seen some serious burnouts among the CrossFit ranks.






He's an idiot, an illiterate one at that.


�The point of CF is to get better at life. Being unable to workout tomorrow because you were pigheaded today is not in line with our goals.�
Garddawg - 22 March 2009





�CrossFit is not dangerous.
Bad coaching is dangerous, poor movement is dangerous. Ego is dangerous.
CrossFit, properly scaled to the individual is the safest and most efficient program available for strength, conditioning and movement.�
BlueBugofJustice - 18 August 2009




The above is from Brand X's website, the place where those other than "The world's fittest athletes" go to get there scaling for the WOD.

The use of high-rep Olympic lifts for time

Olympic lifting is very technical. The lifts themselves are very specific and not the best way to develop many of the attributes claimed. Olympic lifting specialists are one of the most frequently injured group of athletes. If the specialists are getting hurt, what can the regular Joe hope expect? The average man or woman cannot possibly learn these lifts correctly within a couple of hours from a CrossFit instructor, many of whom are themselves marginally qualified.

The O-lifts are meant to be low-rep lifts--not endurance lifts. They're highly technical and skill-dependent lifts; they were never meant for endurance events.

For ballistic, high-rep endurance lifting, use the Kettlebell. That's what they are designed for. But even Kettlebells can be fraught with injury if used with poor form.










Learning to use a kettlebell is GOOD, but saying Crossfit's use of Olympic-style lifts is dangerous is silly. Yeah, dumping a barbell onto a stack of bumper plates is stupid. Not knowing that your own arms are giving out and still trying to throw the barbell overhead is stupid. Stupid is as stupid does.

Crossfit does TWO Olympic lifts for time:

"Grace" Clean & Jerk 30reps for time, Rx'ed weight is #135. I use #125. Ususally takes me a tad under five minutes. Beasts do it in three or less. I power clean the weight. Easy peasy.

Another workout does 75 Snatches with 75# for time. This is grueling, a lot like loading [bleep] from the ground onto a flatbed trailer. Guess that should be banned too.

The guy is a total idiot when he says, "Olympic lifts were never designed for high repetitions". No f'in [bleep] Sherlock, maybe 'cause its the OLYMPICS, and they are trying to see how much weight they can lift...ONCE.

What makes him look REALLY STUPID is the fact that he can't understand that the clean and jerk is THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO LIFT ANYTHING OVER YOUR HEAD! It doesn't matter if it is a barbell or a sack of cement on a construction site. I suppose he reccomends only lifting ONE cement sack. Must be a union steward and well as an idiot.

No need to PT when you have an imagination like ol' TAK.



Travis

No. I don't do RAW, as RAW isn't a "program".

What was the WOD in Havre today? 12oz curls?

Good grief.

I don't have a "program" per se. I follow general guidelines and the details are dependent upon what is required for the task. How I train for mountainous environments is slightly different from urban environments which is different from jungle environments, and all of those are slightly different from general fitness. And I do not just mean exercise as it also includes what I focus on during ranges, gear, eating, etc. As well there are periods where I do almost no "exercise" other than just doing my job, allowing me time to recover physically and mentally.

My workouts depend on what I'm doing or preparing to do however, strength is the basis of true fitness. I don't mean Arnold or fat power lifter, but pure lean strength (lifting heavy things). Followed by sprints (repetitive all out effort with short breaks between), rucking (hiking) and then a base level of running endurance.

Below are my standards for what I do and what level I maintain. I do not (can not) let myself fall below these-

185lb bench press- 20 reps
185lb back squat- 20 reps
225lb deadlift- 25 reps
Strict pull-ups- 18 reps
400m sprint- sub 60 seconds
5 mile run- 40 minutes
12 mile ruck with 72lbs- sub 3 hours




Now depending on what I'm preparing for these can vary a bit for example: if I expect to be around urban areas then more emphasis will be put on upper body strength, muscular endurance of the arms, chest and back, sprints and climbing, and less on distance running and rucking. Conversely if I'm in the mountains then the focus will switch to leg and back strength, muscular endurance in the legs, hiking, and maybe a bit more aerobic endurance (though not because it is needed to carry a pack).



Since this discussion is about carrying a pack in mountainous environments I will keep it to that, although how we live and exercise for general living is much more important.... If someone doesn't care about fitness, than I would tell them to just get out and live. Be active, go for walks in the park everyday, play basketball/tennis/frisbee with the dog/etc, and stop eating garbage. Nutrition is the #1 indicator of health and is so important to fitness that it can not be overstated. There is no magic for food. The diet of the month is not the answer and we as a nation have been lied to since the '60's when the food pyramid started.



There's are lots of ways to get there, and everyone will need to tweak things based upon their own physiology, past injuries, time available, and desire. However, we all need to same things for the same tasks with the only difference being degrees, not content. However, the older you get the more that you need to focus on strength training and power. Or in other words- muscle mass. As we age we lose muscle tissue and with it our youth. By the time you're in you're forties you have have lost huge amounts of testosterone production and consequently are not producing HGH like you should be. When we are young we're not better because our running endurance is better, we are better because we are stronger and therefore more resilient. If you are in you late 30's or older and are not a roided out power lifter, for your own health put some muscle on.



It is difficult to write about a specific "program", but assuming a person with reasonably good health and no major injuries (ie back braces) we can look at generalities. Right off it is easier, better and less damaging to maintain a level of fitness than to constantly be yo-yoing trying to "get ready for a hunt".....


First, nutrition. It's real simple- lots of meats, lots of vegetables, some fruit, few carbs and no sugar. Stay on the outside of the grocery store and avoid fake food.

Given nutrition is taken care of then we have to look at what to focus on.

Carrying a heavy pack involves the legs, back, and shoulders as the main muscle groups with the abs, chest and arms as stabilizers or support. Now just because the abs, chest and arms aren't the primary focus doesn't mean that we neglect them. They are huge for injury prevention and recovery. If you look at like a pyramid it would look something like this-





It's not just about moving our body weight it is about constantly moving 50 to 100+ pounds up and down mountains. That is why muscular strength is the base- you have to be strong enough to lift and then carry the weight. Next comes muscular endurance- you have to keep using your strength over and over. Then cardiovascular endurance- medium to lower level exertion for prolonged periods. The reason that this is not more important is that in mountain hunting you are not running constantly at a 60% heart rate with no weight for 45+ minutes. The top off is muscular power (moving something quickly) and movement (moving your body without injury).


Say we decide to be big boys and not wait until three weeks out from hunting season, but instead start now this is how I would approach it.

First go see your doc and make sure your heart isn't going to fail. Then go grocery shopping for the foods that I listed.... You'll need it.


Prioritized training and broken up into blocks with block one being strength. Strength is the hardest to gain, the fastest to lose, and it only gets worse with age. I would start with buying Starting Strength by Mark Ripptoe and following it to the "T". Forget everything else while doing it.

Block two is to continue lifting but shift more into a high rep medium weight mode 2-3 times a week for 4-6 weeks and incorporate one or two casual hikes a week starting with no weight and gradually work into a really light pack.

Block three would be where I would start with a toned down version of crossfit "like" workouts two or three times a week for 6+ weeks and start running or biking a bit. Really just jogging, working up to 30 minute runs. If you can run 3 or 4 miles at a decent pace without stopping, there is no reason to do hour plus long runs. That mess will just increase your injury rate. Also stay with light hikes as long as you are getting enough recovery.



After you have done that the weather will be starting to get warm, you will be stronger, faster, more durable, more than likely have lost a significant amount of fat, and most importantly will be on your way to knowing what YOU need to do to maintain and increase you fitness and by proxy, your health. You adjust based on what you need. It is a constant cycle.


As you get into summer and start approaching hunting season that is when I would focus on muscular endurance still using relatively heavy weights 2 or 3 times a week and also start increasing both the distance and weight of hikes. Scouting really helps here. As you get closer and closer don't just totally neglect the other areas of fitness (pure strength, cardio, power) however your strength and muscular endurance workouts coupled with the hikes will be where you will make your money. Of course don't just get sucked into the exercise, go and really learn how to use a rifle. Take a course, get off the bench, and really learn field shooting accurately and quickly.

If you do the above leading up to hunting season than you can hunt your butt off, workout when you can, rest more than needed, and start all over after season.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your age, in round numbers?

Sunday is the day of rest. Try reading the Bible, dumbphukk.


Travis

I just went back and read Form's post on his Montana hunt, great read. Very entertaining, but the most entertaining part was the comments from the peanut gallery.

Form seems to have an excellent grasp on what he wants out of his system and how his body reacts to it. And he has a well rounded attitude about working out, ie he knows what he gets from different types of workouts and doesn't just dismiss something he doesn't like out of hand.

We could use a few more like him around here.

There are a lot of variables in these types of discussions that really carry weight (no pun intended). One of the biggest is background. You take a guy who has worked out his whole life and then take a guy who picked it back up after a 10 year layoff.... eh, those two are going to need totally different things out of a workout. I'm dubious when that isn't taken into consideration.

Another is that the body and nerve systems have, for lack of a better word, memories. If you ever let yourself get really fat your body remembers that and retains the ability to put the weight back on more quickly. Likewise with muscle. At one time I was lifting VERY big weight. My body remembers the days of weighing 293 and throwing around weight that now makes me cringe thinking of it. For the last decade I have had to rewrite endurance and stamina into a body that tends toward explosive movements. None of us bring a blank slate into the gym. Something to keep in mind.

Will

Formidilosus, I appreciate the response. I'm about to turn 43 - I could be a poster child for some of your discussion. I figured out how to increase my T levels without drugs.

I'm good with block one and two. I did SS for a few years and I'm now doing an intermediate program (531). I spend a lot of time hiking with a 50 pound pack for leg endurance. I should lengthen the hikes this summer.

It looks like my missing element is endurance cardio. I gave up running three years ago due to a back injury. I'll either try running again or I'll start biking.

Good post Form.

I know a few "animals" who can hike, hunt, and pack like beasts who don't lift heavy weights.... it must be genetics, or they just like the pain. I know I need to get my strength up to keep up with them.

Totally off the subject, but in the other thread I noticed the mention of Injinji toe socks, what's the deal with those, do the liner socks help cut down on blisters/hotspots?

A tragic and preventable accident.

http://deadliftdungeon.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/the-conversation-that-has-to-be-had-about-crossfit/

I just saw Marie osmond is using nutrisystem. She looks pretty fit

I'm going to have another slice of chocolate cake and enjoy this show!

30.









No problem. Getting your T levels checked is something that every male should do, and do not be afraid of taking testosterone supplements. In the next few years we will see a HUGE shift into the acceptance of testosterone and steroid use. Mainly because it works.

5/3/1 is good. Try to keep the pack weight to no more than 1/3rd of your body weight. Be easy with the cardio. I'm sure you know this but start slow and short.








Genetics and anger. grin








Exactly. I have chick feet and get horrible blisters and skin separation. Toe socks are the best thing I've found for combating that.









It should be obvious that I am not a koolaid drinker of Crossfit. Having said that his spine was not severed by the bar. Anyone that watches that video can see that. While the culture often times encourages over exertion and they do feature technical lifts under time and fatigue, Crossfit has had more to due with preparing soldiers to go war than all other "forms" of fitness combined in the last decade. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Thanks for the tip on the Injinjis, I'm gonna try some out.

Great write-up on the hunt thread, I missed it first time around.

I'd give my left nut to be 30 again, but that would no doubt cut down on my T levels..........

can you please elaborate? I got what I think was some good advice from one of the trainers I've used, related to diet and exercise. But It's not a subject I'm very knowledgeable on.

I'm not an expert but here's what I changed after some research.

I added cod liver oil (from bottle), D3, almonds, hard boiled eggs and plenty of red meat (elk for me). I also include heavy lifts weekly. I haven't had my T levels tested but my sex drive and related stuff have increased significantly. I feel like I'm 20 years old again sexually.

My last doctor visit showed low cholesterol and blood pressure (108/70).

I get tested every year and my doc says mine is good for a 56 year-old guy, which is to say, lower than I'd like.

I'm doing most all the stuff you mentioned, minus the cod liver oil and hard-boiled eggs. Don't need my farts to smell any worse than they already do.

My trainer also advised me to avoid doing any low intensity aerobic cardio workouts, and do hard intervals instead, he said that also helps.

You're right, don't dump a barbell from overhead onto a sloppy-ass stack of bumper plates. Interesting how he beat the dead horse of "high-rep" Oly lifts but convieniently didn't provide a link to what actually happened. You know, like the one I posted for your dumb azz to watch?

Too bad we couldn't have a policy where a guy would have to post a picture of himself actually backpack hunting to be able to post on this forum.

From the Crossfit "Start Here" page:


"Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat."





For the 75% of folks that don't naturally over-produce insulin, it will never be that simple. That is why the Zone, preferably Paleo-Zone as much as possible, is preferable. Then again, the fittest man on earth lives off of shakes and eats handfuls of oreos, but we're not Rich Froning, and Rich is 26.

Eating the right foods is job one, they still have to be consumed in the proper portion size in the proper ratios to each other.

That is a Great way to feel! As an older middle age guy who has rebuilt himself 3 times since his late 30s (once because of major injury, mother 2 Tim's so far dealing with major illnesses brought on by whatever Toxins I absorbed at 9/11 attacking my thyroid my main input to the mostly excellent advice in the various responses is:

1) Rest and recovery is really important as you get older. We have more to deal with then we did when we we in our 20s and early 30s as a rule. He outside stress takes its toll as well as the various injuries and wear and tear of life.

2) Eat more protein, you need at least a gram for every 2 pounds to maintain quality muscle, more then that to build. Whey is your friend. Very few eat as much protein as they need.

3) Crossfit is no better or worse then the instructor. If you find one with a quality one who knows what they are doing you struck gold.ma bad one could cripple you. This is true of any program, not just Crossfit. I have seen more people hurt at bad yoga classes as at Crossfit.

4) Speaking of yoga, flexibility and balance are more important then anything else for the older hunter in the mountains. You get hurt if you are not flexible and stumble if you don't have balance. After that legs. You can't have in your lower half, thatis for sure.


5) Finally, I think the original poster is in much better shape then me if he can get his butt to the gym 6 days a week! I would break if I tried that at this point!

Sucks don't it Calvin. GFY.

Sounds to me like your idea of proper diet consists of copious amounts of Rich Froning's COCK.


Travis

I like beer and I've been eating my biscuits.
Nothing works better for me than climbing hills with a pack on. Here's a pic for Calvin.

Dude, you need to start a thread on "best backpacking guitars......."

F�cking awesome pic!

Did TAK leave his camera at Ohkok's house?

TAK is eating his heart out right now.

Yeah. He said mean things when I posted this one.



It might have been because I was calling hammock guys queers though.

I killed a herd of deer on Christmas.

What I do to stay fit during the winter makes crossfit feel like pushing a stroller through the park those that do it will know what I mean, Its called Chukar hunting.

Richard

Those little feathered bastards deserve to die.

LOL, a way around the spell check, who knew?

Quick question, with the cod liver oil and supplements, what do you figure your daily D3 intake is?

Pill is 1000 IU and the Cod Liver has 400 IU. I'll pop an extra pill or two this time of year because my sun exposure is limited.

Calvin, does this pick qualify? I don't have any BP pictures on my phone. I didn't use a helicopter to get up the mountain for this hunt.

Nice.

Looking for a pic from TAK...

Good luck.

What Take_A_Pee thinks he looks like:

Meanwhile, back in reality:

I have thought about starting a work-out thread on this forum a few times. Just so folks could get an idea of what other guys are doing and how it is working out for them. Check in, post what you did that day, a goal set or reached, that sort of thing. Even a link to a Dailymile page would work.

Anything that would let someone looking for advice know that they were talking to someone who actually works out. I swear to god, I'm convinced half of the people I've seen on the net who know EVERYTHING about working out ain't seen a gym or a trail in years.

Will

I would like to compare the workouts of those pushing 70.

Staying in shape in your 30s and 40s for the most part is a walk in the proverbial park.

Go for it penguin... it may turn into a goat rope, but I almost always learn something in these threads.

I haven't been to a gym in... at least 10 years. Well, physical therapy to fix an ankle, but that isn't really a gym. I have a squat rack and a barbell at home. I also have all the necessary "equipment" to do pullups, pushups, situps etc. The "gym" can really be wherever you want it to be.

Free lawnmower and a pack frame can make a pretty good workout. Especially if you don't mow for 2 weeks in the summer.


Hike in somewhere and carry something home. You'll find it under the crossfit WOD (Wood of the Day).


Spend a couple hours splitting wood with a splitting maul. Caution: risk of injury is high if you don't pay attention.

One of my recurring workouts this summer was to do "sprints" up the hill behind the house with the pack loaded with split wood. Another was to lift a big spruce round from the ground to over my head 20 times, then rest for a minute. 5 sets of that, done as fast as possible is surprisingly effective at making you nauseous.

I have to mix stuff like that up. Repetition kills motivation for me. Doesn't hurt my feelings if I can do something productive while "working out".

I like your WOD style!

Me too. That guy is hardcore! You imagine the stabilization strength the man has after doing that all summer.

I might start that thread. I think it would be a good idea. I've noticed that there are a ton of different approaches to staying fit enough to take a pack on a mountain, go after game off the beaten path, and whatnot. It would be great to see how these folks approach offseason conditioning.

The biggest benefit might be that it encouraged us to be more mindful of staying in shape. The biggest drawback... well we've seen it every time fitness comes up haven't we?

Will

OK, I'll bite, but I'm only pushing 60 which may be a walk in the park compared to 70, don't know yet, here's what I did yesterday and today (BTW, I like hearing what 30 year-old guys do, gives me something to shoot for):

It was cardio day today, here�s what I did:

--35 minutes of intervals on the Nautilus Stairmaster machine (moving steps like an escalator); 35 seconds going at 100 steps/minute followed by recovery period of 85 seconds at 70 steps/minute. Heart rate stays between about 180 and 160 the whole time. Never touch the handrails, that's cheating.

--5 minutes cool-down walking on a level treadmill.

--20 minutes of intervals on the treadmill, inclined at 15%; 35 second intervals jogging backward at 3.8 mph until the lower legs burn, followed by 2 minutes recovery walking forward at 2.8 mph. Heart rate stays between 140-160. This is one you can really feel in the lower legs and quads, same muscles you use to put on the brakes while descending.

--5 minutes cool-down walking on level treadmill.

--15-20 minutes stretching and using the foam roller on legs, hips, and back.

Last night I got in an upper body workout, I�m recovering from a chronic shoulder problem (cortisone shot last week) so this was abbreviated:

--5 minutes warm-up on the machine that is like a bike for your arms, whatever that's called

--5 minutes stretching

--Lat pull-downs (instead of pull-ups, easier on shoulder)

--Chest press using cable machine

--Internal and external shoulder rotations using cable machine

--Russians

--Seated rows (weight machine, not rowing machine)

--Hammer curls using dumbells, drop sets
.
I follow all workouts with the same recovery drink, about 1/3 litre of OJ for the sugar with L-Glutamine and 40 grams whey powder mixed in. Then more protein shortly after.

I very much agree with this regimen. I really dislike the gym, and enjoy getting some work done while simultaneously working out.

The other thing I do is simply get out in the hills. It can be under the guise of coyote hunting, shed hunting, or simply traipsing around. Whatever you want to call it, nothing prepares a guy for hiking the hills like hiking the hills.

Oh, and I suppose I should include an obligatory backpacking shot so everybody can see that I'm not completely full of schite.

I'm 36 and live at sea level so preparing for mountain hunts is a big deal for me. For about ten years I was one of those D-Bags who could bench press a house but could barely squat my weight. Squats were hard so I avoided them.

When I was working at NRA a guy told me about Crossfit and I started dabbling in main site workouts- I ended up liking what I saw and started doing it 6 days a week. My fitness level improved dramatically and it paid off on hunts. Later, I did some MMA training at a fight gym for about 9 months and pretty much stayed out of the weight room. My cardio capacity and endurance was off the charts (for me) but my strength suffered. Everything is easier when you're stronger so I wanted to find something with a better balance.

I started doing Coach Rut's Black Box Crossfit workouts (big strength emphasis) and changed my diet to a "paleoish" program that worked with my travel schedule and dropped about 15 pounds. I did this as a prep to my 2012 Wyoming elk hunt (combined with stadium runs and hiking) and did pretty well in the mountains.

This past year, I was going into higher/steeper terrain after mule deer (Wyoming Region G) and wanted to try something different. I did Gym Jones' Operator Fitness program mixed with as much hiking as I could arrange and twice-weekly stadiums at FSU. I had the hardest hunt of my life at altitudes of up to 10k and did really well.

In December, I joined a local Crossfit box with excellent coaching and programming, they are pretty strength- focused but obviously with plenty of metabolic training. I'm looking at sheep in the next couple of years and I feel like they'll have me ready. It's hard to discount the mental challenges of mountain hunting and I think much of this discussion ignores that. If your training taxes you mentally and you don't quit, you're unlikely to quit on yourself up high with a tag in your pocket. Every CF workout that I do makes me question myself and that's part of the attraction for me. The group/competitive environment also pushes me past what I'd do alone intensity-wise. I'm not trying to get hurt though, I bring my brain into the box with me.

I don't think CF is magic, but it works for me. I'm sure I'd get similar results with any other well-designed program (Gym Jones, Mountain Athlete,etc) if I did it alongside others. As I get older, I can tell that my body is less forgiving of bad nutrition and needs more rest. Nothing I can do about getting more sleep with 2 kids under two, but eating clean is a huge help.

What are you doing this time of year, Chris? My gym membership is only Oct - Apr, typically. I like going to the gym in site of the poseurs and ungly fat chicks!

summer is too busy for a gym membership.

Do you think TAK is Lee24? We never did get any pics from him either....

Sounds like a great workout.

I do weights 3 to 4 days per week. Interval training on the treadmil. Ususally for 30 to 40minutes 3 to 4 days per week. Use a concept 2 rower at home 4 to 5 days per week.Somedays hard, some cruising depending on how I feel. Bunch of stretching along with a roller. Thinking of signing up for a hot yoga class.

During summer months woods hike, with a 30 to 40 pound pack for 1 to 1.5hours 2 to 3 days per week.

Will be 70 in February. Currently have the first signs of a knee problem. May have to cut back on the pack depending on how things go.



Addition: Heavy on the protein with meats (almost exclusively Deer) and Twin Labs protein supplements. Nitrous Oxide drink before a strong workout.

The best part of this thread was JJHACK trotting out the notion along the lines of "I took an NFL Linebacker hunting and crushed him." Clinical hubris.

The proposed training log thread might be interesting.

cwh2, how did you get the second one off of the ground?

Battue, I can only hope I'm still doing workouts like that when I'm 70.

And by the way, this pic that prairie goat posted, most guys would guess it's Rambo, but it's not:




That was me, and the pic was taken right before my first crossfit workout. The trainer asked if the class needed anything before the workout began, and some old retired guy in the back sarcastically spat, "you're gonna need more body bags."

We have a concept 2 rower (wife is a rower). So I hit that a bit, which can be a killer. Then the usual - snowshoing, try to ski a little, take the camera out and shoot sheep and moose. Right now sucks, as all this rain makes that a death wish, but I might have to get the crampons out and go anyway.

I probably should be doing more lifting right now.

Thanks. We get a bit of snowshoeing in, but it's recreational, not a 'workout'.

Are you using mountaineering crampons or Katoolahs or the like?

A couple of the women were debating taking up power walking with hand weights to improve their cardio.

I suggested that they would get similar benefits if the they vacuumed their homes top to bottom at a brisk pace a couple of times a day and it would be more productive! For some reason my suggestion did not go down well at all!

For the record, this is not a recommendation, and may go against your #1 rule.

This was the first attempt:


That... didn't work out, and tried to bonk me on the head as it came over. Luckily, there is nothing in there to hurt. So I tied it on sideways, got it up on the rest of that log that is in the background, and got in the straps. Then I broke a strap and had to do a little repair and start over. I kind of think it is good to practice heavy & awkward as long as you don't get hurt, and that was just a funny way to do it.

It was just under a mile, so not really that crazy of a workout, and I had an axe with me, so it wasn't backpacking, in the classic sense.

I see a leverage problem.

You don't understand physics, do you?

For sheepish stuff, I use the Katoolah steel crampons. These here.

For trails where there may be ice, I have some hillsound ones that are more like microspikes or basically just a better version of yaktrax. They are way easier to take off/put on, so you are more likely to use them instead of waiting until you have gone too far.

I was thinking of the Katoolah micro spike.

That's sweet. I've thought about doing same, and now I'm going to have to. Packing a cord of wood out on your back will get the legs working.

Start it.

Years ago in high school the marine corp. came to the high school and tested every kid for fitness. At that age most 15-18 year olds could hike endlessly

So I thought the little fitness test the marine corp gave students in their teens might set some level or base line.

Here are the events and standards they scored with:

Push-ups 100 in 2 min. No resting only enough pause to get a deep breath. A marine held his fist on the floor under your chest and only counted those that touched.

Sit-ups 100 in two minutes, marine held your ankles and counted. Hands behind your head knees bent

Chin-ups 20 no time limit, dead hang for each one. Marine counting only the good ones

One mile run 6 minutes

Wind sprint in the gym
They had four blocks of wood the size of a blackboard eraser. Placed at 1/4-1/2-3/4& full court. There was a five gallon pail at the start. The object was to run get the first block return to the bucket put it in the bucket. Then the next one and then the third one, and fourth one.

I think you had a minute to complete it, and top scores were in the 45sec range. I honestly cannot remember this one event perfectly for the time.

Each event was worth 100 points, the high scores were in the 480-490 range for about 10-12 people, the majority were in the 375-400 range.

For whatever this is worth

When I was in college, the Marine Corps PFT included pull-ups, crunches and 3-mile run. 100 points maximum for each event. The max pull-ups was 20, 100 crunches in 2 minutes and 18 minutes for the 3-miles run. I could max out the first two events but never ran faster than 18:30 timed.

When I was in middle school/high school, sub 6 minute miles could be done without much practice. As well as everything else on that list. Oh how things have changed..(grin)

When I was in the swimmer program in the USCG, we'd do 5mile runs in 30 minutes. If any of us fell behind, the guys in front had to do pushups till the lagger caught up, and we still had to finish (all of us) in under 30 minutes, or it'd be hell to pay. Good times..(grin)

Side note, I was getting some PT on my shoulder today at Steadman-Hawkins Clinic Denver, which is top notch. They have probably 12 PTs and 4-5 Orthopedic surgeons. I asked my PT if they get many customers as a result of cross fit injuries. Her reply:

"Don't get me started."

Ah, yes. Again we see the "skip the carbs, and eat lots of protein." This in spite of the fact that no accepted studies have ever proven any harm from eating complex carbohydrates. Quite the opposite.
Much more than one gram of protein for every seven pounds of body weight either is converted to fat and stored as such or is converted to glucose because the person isn't eating enough carbohydrates. When that happens, there are no amino acids to not only build muscle, but the other things like antibodies, etc. can't be made by the body unless it breaks down one's muscle tissue to make them.
You guys that ignore the facts better make sure you eat those proteins throughout the day to keep your blood sugar levels up. Don't be surprised if you keep getting heads cold and flu like symtoms. Yes, you can eat enough of them to do both jobs, but, unlike eating complex carbs, the body will not convert any extra protein to glycogen and store it for use later in the day. That and the fact that you best make sure you don't drift into protein poisoning. That kills.
But the worst is this idea that soon we are going to see increased acceptance of testosterone and steriod use. This is absolutely nuts. You should see what the medical community has to say about this. In short, you are asking for all sorts of problems, some of them quite serious. Especially as you get older.
Good luck. E

In short you should try and keep up with current research on proteins and testosterone instead of repeating what you read 20 years ago.

+1

Do I hear a Parrot??

+2. Or maybe (gasp) actually try it. See if you get the dreaded head colds and flu-like symptoms. I know, that's ridiculous.

First of all, he said "few carbs" not skip the carbs. But really, people who read this and don't realize there are plenty of carbs in vegetables and fruit need to brush up on their knowledge of nutrition.

Nobody took issue with the "no sugar," but there's plenty of sugar in fruits and vegetables too.

It's all about where you get your carbs--white rice and white bread, not so good. Vegetables and fruit, good.

So what you're saying is that before a eurocentric diet hit the arctic zone there were a bunch of fat, sickly Inuit inhabiting the icepack for eons considering over 90% of their diet was animal based?

LOL, exactly, that's why they had all those health problems. Wait a minute, those didn't start until they adopted a diet filled with starch.........

I have a wonderful book (long out of print) called "Arctic Manual" written by Vilhjalmur Stefansson who was an early, cutting edge arctic explorer, 1910's 20's. Before leaving for a major expedition and clarify his previous findings of the northern diet Vilhjamur and a partner set out a dietary plan of nothing but animal protein and fat to simulate what they would be consuming on the ice pack. After one year of said diet they received a clean bill of health and headed north.

Another book with a more detailed account of Inuit dietary consumption back in the day is "Kabloona" by Gontran de Poncins. Brings a whole new meaning to the concept of sushi!
Suffice it to say the northern peoples were very healthy.

And alchohol and free money. I wonder what their life expectancy was, if you factored in that they lived in a very harsh and dangerous environment.
Steve

Argue all you want guys. There have been several hundred studies done on this. And many more still being done.
As to the native americans of the far north, it should be noted that they eat alot of fish and other items from the sea. Their numerous current problems are well documented. The claims that they were once alot healthier in the good old days have not been properly documented.
I'll give you one example. Take a healthy japanese out of japan and away from his native eating habits, and he become just as over weight with our health problems as we are. Why ? Too much meat, fat and sugar. You can do the same with a rural chinese individual. That's because their diets are based on whole grains, like rice, and vegetables. E

Exercise and stressing the body is the game changer more than pure diet. They come here and start living like the majority. Which for the average person equates to too many carbs of all kinds and not enough pushing themselves.

Sit on your azz all day and eat fish ain't going to get you over the hills.

Stress the body and you need protein for repair, and the findings show it is not only for muscles, but also for tendons and ligaments.

Your .8grams/Kg is for sedentary people. Those who push it need more and it is in the literature and "studies".

Addition: Also recent research is leaning towards the thought the older you get the more protein you need. You still believe eggs are bad for you? One time that was also the current thinking. Today? Not so much.

I don't want to jump into this conversation without reading the whole thread, but I'm a huge proponent of the Paleolithic diet, and give lectures on it at least 2-3's per year. Complex carbohydrates is a 10 cent word that gets thrown around alot. Whole grain bread and pasta are not a complex carbohydrates as many people believe. Vegetable and Fruit are, and even though fruit contains sugar it is the work your body must undertake to break it down from its current form into usable sugar that divides it from sugar put into drinks and food. The China study that is being referenced has some huge holes in its hypothesis that meat is the downfall of our dietary health. Poor rural chinese subsist on rice and vegetables and not meat, this is true, but they also can't afford the decadent desserts and soda and sugary foods that the wealthier suburban countrymen tend to subsist on. Exercise is a given in the paleolithic diet, because food in its perfect form did not come to you, you went to it and sometimes had to chase it down and kill it. Its really common sense when you think about it.

MM