Simple question: Would you trust your life with a .380?

I'm not interested in: if you can carry a bigger gun, then carry one. I just want to know if you, personally, would feel safe carrying a .380 only.

NO.

Hope is not a strategy.

A reliable 380 is interchangeable with a 38 snub. I have carried both and felt much safer than if I wasn't carrying anything.

A hatchet and a good stout knife would beat them both at bad breath distance.

I would bet a lot of people that wouldn't trust a 380 would still hunt with a fast twist 223.

the deer that I'd hunt with a fast twist 223 aren't trying to kill me at the same time that I'm trying to kill them.

if all that I could stuff in my pockets and carry all day was a 380 with good ammo I would carry that gun and be prepared to shoot twice.

Modern statistics compiled about the different calibers shows that the 380 is indeed a viable choice.
I alternate between 9mm and 380 and feel that i am adequately protected.
If I lived in one of the ant farms ( large cities ) I would re evaluate.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A 380 is better than nothing and a lot of calibers are inferior to it. They are better than nothing too. That said, I got rid of the last 380 I had because the danged thing hurt to fire it. With the advent of the Sig P938, I can see no reason to carry a 380 since the Sig is nearly as small as any 380.

A lot would depend on which gun and load and how well I could fire it. I'd rather have a 380 that was reliable and that I shot well than a bigger gun that I didn't. I don't think I'd want a 380 that was only reliable with Ball ammo because the 380's stopping power could hinge on utilizing the best ammo.

Daily, no.

But under certain circumstances, yes. One to the pumpkin should do the trick.

Sometimes it's a BUG, sometimes it's not

As I tell anybody considering the .380 for self defense: you shoot somebody with that and you're gonna piss them off.

Don

No way would I daily carry a 380 as my primary weapon. Have any of you guys that carry them ever shot any deer sized game with the 380. I know it can work and has but penetration coupled with expansion is not the 380's strong suite.
The 9mm comes in small packages these days and is a much better option.

Always practice head shots!!

Simple answer is yes...have total confidence in the Kahr P380 I carry when I can not carry a bigger gun. It is loaded with Underwood 65 grain Xtreme Defender and have no doubt it is going to do a lot more than "piss someone off".

I shoot the gun just as well as I do any of my defensive guns and qualified with the same score as my Glock 19.

But as said, 95% of the time I carry a larger gun but have total confidence that this gun will get the job done...

Bob

IIRC, that was for the .25ACP..

I'm OK with a .380 around here - but the closer I get to the Twin Cities area the larger the caliber and capacity..

And ammo for the .380, IMHO, has really evolved.. The stuff that was available even 10 years ago wouldn't do much. Nowadays, some ammo offerings are definitely more lethal..

FWIW.

Go ahead and volunteer to prove that dumbass theory.

Your question assumes that there is a handgun caliber commonly chambered in defensive handguns out there that passes a certain clear threshold of power that one ought to feel certain that it will stop an attacker cold. There's not. It's a continuum from .22 Short to .50 AE. The choice as to which one to carry comes down to a series of compromises with regard to tote-ability, concealability, shootability, capacity, power, etc., etc.. Everyone has their own personal reasons for their choices and minimums.

For me, my personal minimum is 9mm/.38 Special, as a primary carry. I have no problem with anything from .22 Short on up to .380 as a SHTF, deep concealment, backup gun, though. It's a matter of balancing various compromises.

Have you compared it side-by-side with a Ruger LCP? Not the new one, which is a little bigger, but the original LCP. There's a fairly significant difference in all dimensions.

If I had to. I had a Sig P238 a while back that had good sights and was fun to shoot. I got rid of it before I heard of the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator. I would test those if I had to carry a .380.

I practiced shooting my .380 at a target taped to my 55 Gallon burning barrel. not only did the rounds go through the paper target, but also went through the barrel. I believe that the barrel is tougher to penetrate than human, therefore I feel safe carrying a .380

yes

I bet 99 out of 100 retards would point to you and say 'By God, there goes a real retard'

Good Lord, how do you even breath with your head so far up your ass? You have to be your biggest fan.

My bad, I meant 100 out of 100.

Only if it was all i had. I would just as soon carry a good 22 Pistol 22 LRHP

I have shot metal plates - old cast iron wood stove parts, mostly - with hollow points out of my .380 and was surprised at the hole they made in them.

Mike

Was watching one of the crime shows on the ID channel... It was about the "380 Killer"... Can't remember what city but this guy was just going around murdering people with a .380 ACP pistol... Just plain old FMJ ammo and peopled died in short order with 1-2 shots to the body.

The 9mm Kurz has been killing folks here and abroad for over a century.

If you can use it, use it.

That said, if you can consistently carry bigger and/or higher cap, there's no logical reason not to.

When I can't carry anything bigger I carry a 380 in my pocket and a benchmade pocket knife in the other.

This may be the grand slam of all come-backs.

I carry a LCP with gold dots for concealed carry. Open carry is either a 357 or 45.

the same could be said about the .32acp. funny, i guess they don't make people in europe as big as they do here.
then i think of the .380, and a couple of pistols i have that carry 13 rounds of the stuff.

Hickock trusted his life to a pair of .36 Navy Colts.

That is an excellent point that I had not considered before.

Thank you.

And I've seen deer killed with a .22 rimfire. That doesn't make the .22 rimfire a suitable deer cartridge.

Don

I have told this story before but here it goes again. I have a couple of Ruger LCPs. I carry one concealed in a pocket holster. I had it with me one day when I was out checking my hog traps. Drove up on a big open top ring trap and it was full of pigs. Three big sows and a pile of medium size pigs that ran from 20 to 35 pounds or so.

I figured I'd pop with of the big sows with a Hyroshock to see how it turned out. After you head shoot the first one,the others go wild and it's all running shots. I killed around a dozen,all fell at the shot,only one required a finisher. I was aiming under the ear but hit them all over the vitals as they ran.

After what I saw,I consider the 380 with hydrashocks to be a deadly killer at close range. I need to add that I have seen .45 acp and
.40 S&W with ball ammo fail to kill quickly under similar conditions.

I don't own one, but if I ever do, it will likely be a larger 380, something along the lines of a Beretta 84.

At least the Beretta 84 holds a few rounds, gets a little more velocity, and the larger size, better sights, etc is more ergonomic for me to use, than something small.

No. While it's better than a rock or a stick, it is not something that I would say "I am comfortable enough with it's performance to carry this day in/out and nothing else".

I have no doubt it can kill, I just don't feel it's the best tool for the job. Why handicap myself both in performance and capacity?

You might be able to work on your whole car with only a crescent wrench, but it doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.

Well played, Steelie.

For some unknown reason, I just gave away a Spanish made 9MM Kurz/.380 ACP that would not go through a 55 Gallon drum. I gave it to my Son-in-law to keep it in the family since my Father took it off a German Officer in the Battle of the Bulge. That being said, my Taurus PT738 .380 goes right through the same drum. Same bullet, different gun. How do you figure?

I would not carry a 380 given other choices.

That said, I'd carry a Glock 42 with good ammo before a 38 special, or carrying nothing.

I'd pick the Glock if for no other reason than quick magazine changes.

The top two choices from Buffalo Bore would have to do some damage.

LOLOL....that's funny right there.... Not to mention now you can get a 8" fast twist AR 'pistol' with 'arm brace'. Kinda hard to conceal but it'll sure be impressive if you have to get out of the car.

Sat in on my son's CCL class a few years back and the instructor addressed that opinion. Guy was actually good as an instructor. All he did was hold up his .380 and say "I got 8 pissed offs right here. Who want's 'em".

But the first thing I trust my life with isn't the pistol or cartridge but paying attention to trouble. If a .380 is all I can carry I will. Heck, I wouldn't feel neked with a good .22 Wife's M&P comes to mind.

All things considered the greatest amount of trust I have is with a cruiser off shore and a direct comm link....

A squad of jarheads with a 4duece being a close 2nd...

There are some .380's out there which are really neat small pistols. But I probably wouldn't use one for serious work, though.

But remember how most of us say, "let the woman choose the pistol." I'm guessing that the OP is in that boat, where he has someone who is bound & determined to carry a .380, for reasons that may or may not be sound tactics.

Rule One of course is have a gun, so if that's the only allowed option it beats nunchucks and shillelaghs.

Can't speak for the OP, but some older folks who suffer from RA just cannot stand much for recoil. My wife is one - and anything more than a .32 H&R magnum can't work. So, it's that or a .380 and the latter is mucho easier to conceal..

'Course, in HER purse I bet I could lose a Panzer..

Simply put, no. There is no size advantage to a .380 over a 9mm, and IMHO 9mm is the minimum level of power I'll trust my life.

In a gunfight, not everything is going to go right and rounds that rely on everything going right are IMHO a poor choice, and those rounds are the 22 rf, 25 acp, 32 acp and 380.

9mm +p, 38 sp +P are the starting point of turning the table in your favor.

If you're going to carry a Beretta 84 you might as well carry a Glock 19 or 26 instead.

Ken Waters in "Pet Loads" talking about a .380 load consisting of a Hornady 115 grain HP over 3.5 grains of Unique fired into a row of water filled half gallon milk jugs.

"It zipped through a total of four feet of these jugs, blowing caps and water over a 15-foot circle and still had power remaining to penetrate one side of a 55-gallon steel drum set behind the water jugs."

Yes.




Dave

I don't know Waters personally but that sounds like bull-scat to me. I'd have to see it to believe it.

Absolutely.

The only case where I would see me carrying a 380 is if that was the only pistol ammo I could find.

Considering I handload, and have centerfire handguns in 9mm, 357 Mag, 40SW, 44 Mag, 45ACP, and 45 Colt, that circumstance seems very unlikely.

I do, I carry a Colt MKIV Series 80 Government .380 as well as a S&W 431PD in .32 H&R mag. Those are my current carry choices.

I will carry an LCP when I can't carry something else.

I'd have to see that to believe it. I fired a 124 grain XTP +P 9mm into milk jugs full of water and caught the bullet in jug number 3.

No.

Yes. SIG P238.

Yes, with the right ammo.

Normally I carry a 9mm or .45. But there are times I have to carry something small such as a .380, .32 H&R, or .38 Special. When those times come, that's what I carry. I beats the hell out of being unarmed. So yeah, it's not my first choice, but there are times I'll trust my life to a .380.

Ken watters is one of my old guru's.
looking it up:
"it has penetrated up to 11 thicknesses of 1/2inch homosote boards in my pentration test box where boards are spaced 3/4inch apart. turned on a row of half gallon plastic jugs filled with water and capped, it zipped through a total of four feet of these jugs, blowing caps and water over a 15foot circle, and still had power enough remaining to penetrate one side of a 55gallon steel drum set behind the water jugs..

These tests were performed before witnesses and succeeded in impressing all observers including this writer. Last comment was "by contrast the most any 38special or 357magnum load penetrated was 14thicknesses of homosote.
He went on to say bullet expansion was disappointing, which partially accounts for the penetration. They expanded little or none at all, measuring anywhere from their unfired .355 diameters, to a maximum of .456 with an average of .380 to .385. He was using a star super-sm.

Yes
My grab and go on an errand gun is 380
Has been for years, never felt insecure.

Yeah,..he mentioned that it surprised him and everybody else.

I wouldn't have thought that the load would have that much penetration, but I can't see why he'd have any reason to lie about it.

It was just another handload to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PDQcE-1T40&t=78s

Only after my real guns ran out of ammo.

Honestly, these threads looking for justification to carry only a mouse gun are a little silly. If you're serious about needing a gun to defend yourself, do you want "maybe adequate", or something better? If you don't seriously need it, carry what you want, it doesn't matter.

Kind of like shooting deer with a .223 or elk with a 243...

Out of curiosity I took a look at some of the 380 ammo available from Underwood.

I have to say, there are some pretty spicy loads there.


https://underwoodammo.com/product-category/caliber/380-acp/

If my only option were a 380, like you I would have to go with the Beretta 84. Great gun, 13 round mag (IIRC) the ones that I've had shoot well. I think the 13 rounds in the 84, Trumps, the 5 in a 38 special. Especially with good ammo and if you are going to use, it that's the only way to go.

Sure.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/foghorn/ask-foghorn-22l-for-self-defense/

In the graphs above, why do you think the 22 scored so high for fatality?

Shot placement.

Probably so. I would think that a lot of the 22's were shot from ruger rifles..

wish they had another graph to show percentage of incidents by caliber

That's the first graph in the article.

Thanks. Aren't you up kinda early?

Or Marlins, Winchesters, etc.

Up late.
I have odd schedules as I'm retired and the snow is deep...grin

yes, much higher percentage of well aimed hits with the rifles..if they counted these in the study.

I wouldn't choose a 380 to go to a fight. But then again, I wouldn't go to a gunfight . That said, a 380 might be in my pocket when a fight came to me.

I find the last chart, the one he kinda blows off as a "training problem", to be most significant. It is also what I have seen in the real world....

Bob

Yep.

Don

The funny thing is that those people who see nothing wrong with doing that, are the first ones that will say a 380 isn't big enough.

1 of 100.

.25 ACP slightly exceeds 9mm, for fatalities?

that's curious

percentages.

Those stout folks with moxy and 25acp's know how to shoot, versus all the hood rat gang bangers holding their 9mm gats sideways....

No, the funny thing is when people have a complete and total lack of any terminal ballistics knowledge and make silly comparisons.




It has nothing to do with wound channel depth and size- instead bullets kill by MAJIC!

IMO none of these One Shot Stop stats are worth a hoot. You have to look at individual shootings, police reports, witness statements etc to draw any conclusions at all and even those are just that- individual cases, with unique circumstances that may or may not have affected the shootee's response to being shot.

I've seen three cases where drugged/drunk mean SOBs kicked down a door and were shot when the got inside.

One with a 9mm, 3 rounds of 147 9mm Hydrashock through the torso. He walked back outside and was sitting on the curb when the cops arrived. Nearly bled to death but lived.

One with a 25 ACP, invader took a 25 FMJ through the thigh that lodged in an oak door behind him. He yelled "OW! OW!" and hopped outside, where we found him sitting on the lawn.

One with a crotch hit from a 20 gauge shotgun, bird load, at maybe 25 feet. He too had rearranged his priorities by the time we arrived.

Gunfight in a small living room between druggies. Traded hits between a sawed off 12 gauge birdshot again, and a Bryco 380. One took two 380 FMJ t the foot/calf and the other caught a load birdshot upside the head at an oblique angle. They had called a truce and were awaiting an ambulance and ride to the pokey. Neither died.

There were others, plus various attack dogs sic'ed on Officer Friendly.

I generally carry 40 or bigger. I have carried a 380/38 snub when nothing bigger would work, but damned seldom. Figured I might miss the guy's foot under stress LOL.

yes i would

I have a cross bow target in my basement with an everlast heavy bag behind it. One time for grins my buddy shot the cross bow target with his 380 LCP or what ever those little rugers are. Both times the bullets sailed through the cross bow target like butter and lodged halfway through the heavy bag. Full power (350 fps) cross bow bolts wont go through the target with razor sharp broadheads. This was from 25 feet. The loads were remington brass tip hollow point and hornady xtp.

I have a new respect for the .380.

On another note, one 380 bullet has about the same or more energy as a 00 buckshot pellet once they get out from the muzzle very far. I have seen and heard quite a few stories about the golden BB (00 buck pellet) that killed the buck at 50 or a 100 yards. Where I come from there are deer heads nailed on barns all over with the proverbial golden bb through the skull.

Simple answer......only if I have to.

I quit having to a long time ago.

The .380 lacks penetration, compared to 9mm. You can't escape that fact.

The question should be asked another way...do you trust your life to the gun you carry. I've always heard it said that you best beware of the man with one gun, because he probably knows how to use it. If I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I was going to be in a gunfight, I'd be armed accordingly. An AR with a bunch of clips in case needed, a 12 guage shotgun loaded with 00 buck, a 45 auto on my hip, maybe a 38 in an ankle holster, and a good sharp knife.....and maybe I'd feel well armed. But, it's obvious that most of us can't go walking around that way. I'd be much more afraid of a man armed with a 380 that he was familiar with, and had shot a bunch, than a man with a 45 that he had never used. A gunfight is usually going to be settled by who shoots first and the best. If you are intimately familiar with your gun, and that applies to hunting, target shooting, or shooting at a human, then you're going be far better off than the man who is not. I sometimes carry a 380 when that's all I could possibly conceal. I admit that I'd much rather be armed with something bigger, but if I need to shoot another person in defense of my life, I will not be afraid to use that 380. The important thing is to shoot the gun you are going to carry, and shoot it a lot so you know how to hit with it. If you can't hit with it, then you better find one that you can shoot, or keep your butt at home.

Maybe this one:



Honestly, Most of the dead bodies from shootings I have seen have had holes from a 22 LR in them.

jmho as an untrained civilian-
knowingly heading to a firefight with
any handgun seems like a silly proposition.
i'll be having a good semi auto shotgun or rifle
with multiple removable magazines depending on scenario

It doesn't take many untrained civilians interjecting themselves into an active shooter to save a lot of lives....

Are you from Texas?




Dave

This gets most of the carry time these days.



This one is a favorite though, just a bit too big for my pocket.

It ain't the cartridge in a pistol that kills annoying a-holes, it's the shooter.

FPE doesn't kill perps.
Velocity doesn't kill perps.
Caliber doesn't kill perps.

It's the shooter that knows his gun and employs it appropriately. Having a gun available in the first place is a winning opener. Different scenarios lend themselves to different styles of guns.

Belt feed isn't a cure for PPPP.

I thought these questions were answered a long time ago when some wise guy said "If you can shoot everything works, if you can't nothing does." and followed it up with this pearl of wisdom "Bullets matter more than the head stamp on the cartridge."

To answer the OP's question, If it is a .380 I can shoot welllike a Glock 42, and I can use hard cast flat nose load like Buffalo Bore's loading for the cartridge then yes, I would trust my life to a .380.

Terry, did you bob the hammer on that 32 mag? Regardless, people lose sight of the bottom line. Is a 380 optimal? Hell no. But then again, I am not the police anymore. What I need is for people to leave me alone and let me go home.

Now, It may be that a 9mm with 17 round magazines will put me in a position to get back to the house safely. For that matter, an AR15 with 30 round magazines will up the chances significantly.

Let every Spartan. He who has seen the elephant, decide at his particular point in life, decide what tool suits him and his family in terms of self defense.

For now, I prefer a G19 with an extra G17 magazine. If I live long enough, a Smith Model 38 with a couple extra speed strips might suit me. (with a sharp pocket knife.)

Finally, a Glock 42, with a pocket knife, might make me happy enough, about getting back home safely.

Who can say what is "Enough"?

God bless you all, and carry all you can.
CT

CT, Yessir, I did the bob job as I couldn't find a 432PD when I needed a pocket pistol.

I'm no shootist. Nobody never shot at me and I never shot at Nobody. We're both still alive and well. But logic tells me the only reason to carry a .380 instead of a larger chambering is because the smaller size of the vessel is to my advantage. Big pistols for small ctgs don't make sense to me when it comes to concealed carry. The reasons for me to carry a larger chambering in a larger vessel are primarily terminal performance, capacity, and handling as compared to the smaller chambering. However the choice of a particular weapon to be carried will also be affected by the circumstances surrounding my activities of daily living. I'm becoming more attracted to the AR pistols than ever before but just wouldn't be able to swing the required level of concealment during church service at Trinity Baptist. I'm sure it'd bring on the vapors for a fair number of our WMU ladies. So with their well being and protection in mind I compromise with (usually) IWB carry of a G23. If I wear a jacket it hides well. Coming summer sweat time I'll most likely go to the LCP or buy a LC9 to tuck because I HAVE to carry and it MUST be concealed. But haven't totally given up on finding a mo betta way to hide the Glock. And that's all I have to say about that.

NO. The 380 cannot be compared to a 9mm. A 38 sp might be the bare minimum,but I carry a .357, 3" barrel.Even that with such short barrel is not all it is cracked up to be.

Would I want to be shot with a .38? Of course not,but I am not about to trust my life with one.

To many people are putting to much to much emphasis on guns being light,easy to carry and concealable when they should be more worried about the capabilities of what they are carrying

People seem to get confused on the definition of "compared" in these types of threads. It can be compared, for example:

- 380 and 9mm both use the same nominal bore size.
- 380 generally uses lighter bullets than 9mm
- 380 generally pushes those bullets much slower than 9mm
- 380 full power loads are generally similar to the lightest target loads many 9mm pistols will cycle.

Those are comparisons. I think what you mean is the 380 cannot be the equal of 9mm, and that is true.

I agree that he just blew it off. No acknowledgement of the fact that the .22lr often kills slowly. In fact - the entire article kind of glosses over the idea that stopping the fight - rather than killing - is the main goal.

And he never mentions that rimfire misfire problem.

If your CCW is a 22LR and that is all you can manage, more power too you. Those little tip up Beretta 22s were favored by people who did not have the hand strength to rack the slide. A few years back a lady near Atlanta filled a home invaders carcass with 9 22's, he made it out the front door before he died.

This.

I disagree. You have to carry and conceal your weapon so common sense and physical ability influence what a person can carry. I just shot a pistol class with a G43 and passed it. To a man everyone had some type of high capacity gun except me and a fellow with an LC9. We decided to shoot the course with what we usually carry. It is easy to forget that Grandma with her sciatica cannot tote a 2.5 pound N frame in her purse any longer and yet I would want her to be armed instead of harmed.

I am probably going to catch some flack over this, but here goes. I am not a fan of open carry, and open carry is the best and only way, one can carry a large handgun. I just don't like the idea of people seeing me armed, because it's none of their business. Also, there are places where it's just not practical to walk around with a 1911 strapped on you. That's why I carry concealed only, and I'll admit that I carry in some places where I'm not supposed to. However, I feel it's a necessity, or I wouldn't do it. That means that the handgun that I pack must be small enough to avoid being seen. If I have enough clothes on and can conceal it, I'll pack a Glock 19 or maybe a Sig 40 cal, but most of the time there will be a 380 in my pocket. I don't see it so much as trusting my life to it, but rather as the best way that I can go armed without the world knowing.

I do not trust my life to any firearm! I carry and use what I feel gives me the best chance of stopping a threat quickly. I also agree that many have physical limitation that require smaller less powerful cartridges. For instance my wife is small and has a bad case of rheumatoid arthritis, so she uses a Berreta 32 ACP with a tip up barrel, because she can't adequately rack the slide. She shoots the pistol reasonably well and it beats the hell out of nothing.

Basing this all on memory so there may be a glitch or two. Back in the '90s when I still lived in Alabama there was an attempted robbery of a barbershop in Birmingham. IIRC it was headed downhill and one of the bad guys was waving a gun. Old guy in the chair pulls out his NAA .22 mag paperweight and head shot both of them. I recall at least one was doa. Ended the robbery.

Yes,but Granny can carry a Lady Smith with +P's that weighs 22 ounces,and there isno slide racking.

Then there are those that say they want concealable but want to wear shorts and a tank top.Here's a clue, wear a regular shirt not tucked in. The termed concealed means not in plain sight,it doesn't necessarily mean that a bulge is not permitted.Again people are more worried about their comfort than they are saving their own life than.

Surely if our troops in the Middle East can work in full body armor and carry all the equipment when they are in 120-130 degree temps. Someone who is worried about their own safety can wear few more clothes.

I conceal a 17 everywhere I'm legal to carry. Before that, I conceal carried a K-Frame S&W. For years I conceal carried a full sized 1911. In 37 years of carrying concealed a whole variety of handguns of all common sizes, I was only (to my knowledge) spotted once, and that was when I reached down to the ground to pick up a little dog. Asked at that time if I was carrying a handgun, I simply said "Always."

In a well made firearm, yes. But that is the problem I find with 380's. there's a lot of junk out there.

I've carried since I was legal to do so at 21. Always had whatever I was carrying covered and didn't give a rip if it printed or not. Never been questioned about it either. Mostly carried a Sig 229 or Glock 26. A t-shirt one size larger than what you normally wear hides quite a bit and is still comfortable in summer.

What an idiotic view.



Dave

As always nobody reads the fugkin' question. He specifically omitted size of the gun and narrowed the question to the cartridge. Would you trust your life with the .380?

I would and do. On occasion...

I am glad so many people leave the house only dressed in Wranglers, a button up shirt and a fugkin' cowboy hat, but I'm one of those people that does normal schit. i.e. go float the river with your kids in swim trunks and a tank top. Or maybe flip-flop my happy ass into the grocery store on Sunday morning wearing nothing but sweatpants and a hangover.

That's what I wear into the store when we stop for beer and ice and pop on the way to the river. Guess what I have on me? It's not a fugkin' Sig 226 I can tell you that.

Guess what I keep in my pocket or waistband while I float? It's not a fugkin' G17L, I can tell you that.

Speaking to accuracy of small guns, that's on the shooter and has nothing to do with the lethality of a cartridge.

I feel relatively comfortable with mine:



Here's a rabbit that got brained @ 11yds.



I have literally piles of handguns and I carry accordingly.

But if you're the kind of guy that spends his whole life wearing 5.11 pants with a riggers belt, a suitable cover shirt, a Surefire flashlight, an iPhone, a wallet, and a spare mag, you're probably not real relatable to Joe Family Guy that does a variety of schit with his kids and wife and girlfriend.



Clark

Should read wife and girlfriends.

Just as idiotic to trust your life to a.380.
My opinion is as valid as your flippant one.

Around here, that is a normal person.I'm sure you would not fit in.

...good post Travis, and excellent shooting.

I've always maintained that versatility with all of the many varied platforms/rigs is a great indicator of mastering (it's always in the present tense), the craft...

Good.




Travis

I'm getting ready to go out and eat with my wife and several other couples tonite. It's warm here and I'm not going to wear a long heavy coat, under which I could conceal a full sized pistol. I will have a 380 in my jeans pocket, and I know that at least one other man in the group will to. I will have a 9mm handgun in my car, but I do not feel inadequate packing that 380. If I was going to walk down the streets of a thug infested area, I would want something bigger that held more ammo. But, I'm not, and am not worried in the least.

I trust my life to not argue with people who carry guns and argue about bigger or better calibers!

I can tell you how much I like the 380 , I don't even own one and haven't for many years. The Kahr P9 is as small as I want for self defense.

Don't blame you in the least, my friend. Good work.

You miss the most important part. Did the invader rape or murder the lady in the time between catching number 9 and running out the front door? If not, she changed his channel.

I've seen enough dead people from 22lr and 380 acp to know that they both work very effectively.

My brother in law (the cop) just had a relatively short conversation with a gentleman who had intercepted a Raven 25 caliber. it took him a little while but he was dead in 5 hours, it bounced around inside and tore up enough stuff they couldn't save him. shot placement matters more than the size of the bullet.

Here are a few thoughts.

If the.380 is considered a defense round,why are not more LEO"S carrying them as their primary sidearm.

Why were a lot of the troops serving in the military complaining that the 9MM did not have the stopping power that the 45 ACP did,and wanted the govt. to at least change the criteria to a 40 S&W. Which is now being considered if not already in process. I don't remember any saying the 9mm is too much,please issue some 380's.

These two things leads me to believe that those who are in harms way do not consider the .380 as some thing to trust your life too.

Arguments were made that some responses talked about a larger framed handguns.Personally,I would not consider a .380 if it was in a full size 1922 frame even

Your thoughts are valid, and normal for most anyone who considers carrying a firearm for personal defense. That being said, LEO's carry larger (and larger caliber) sidearms because they are required by statute to defend themselves and others, to effect arrest and engage criminals, where the average citizen is not.

The average citizen carries a firearm to protect himself and possibly his loved ones. He can turn a blind eye toward any threat as long as he and his loved ones can walk or run away from the threat. Sworn police professionals cannot do so. It may seem like a trivial difference, but it is a difference nonetheless.

I will say this, if you are compelled to carry a full sized firearm chambered for a full powered cartridge, then by all means, do so. But remember, it is folly to look down on someone who carries a 380 (or smaller) cartridge for personal defense. The cartridge kills.

Wartime military needs are very much different from the needs of everyday self defense users. But as I said earlier, if you are laboring under the conviction that you should carry a full sized and full powered handgun every day, then do so. But, remember that troops have been bitching about stopping power since the Roman Legion.

Those going into knowingly going into harm's way do not consider any handgun as something they would want to trust their life to.

The argument for a full sized 380 make no sense. The benefit of the cartridge lies in the fact that it can be chambered in firearms which can be carried concealed in pants pockets, jacket pockets and purses. If the firearms were of the same size and one is chambered for a more powerful cartridge, then obviously, the one with the more potent cartridge would be preferable.

People in the military wanted "more knock down power" because they are completely ignorant in terminal ballistics. Combine that ignorance with a pathetically low skill level in shooting and you get some stupid thoughts.


There are organizations that kill people every night with pistols. They use 9mm by choice.




As for 380, it has some serious issues, namely the platforms it is chambered in do not allow the shooting performance I require, even for deep CCW. The G42 is the one that comes closest and using Buffalo Bore hard cast +P ammo it offers enough penetration to make it viable for some roles- though performance will be like 9mm FMJ.

I sometimes trust my life with a Kel-tec 32 ACP.

CT.I'm not knocking anyone for what ever they choose to carry. It is a decision every individual has to make themselves. The OP asked if a person would trust their life to a .380. I answered and gave reasons why I would not.Some chose to take offense at that.
Yes a .380 will kill. It is what an individual will do between the time they get shot and die that bothers me.

Let me ask you a real simple question.

WTF do you wear to the beach?




Clark

A man I used to work with told me the story about the time he was sitting in a café and a man walked in and shot another with a 22 pistol. The bullet hit the man in the arm, bounced off the bone, came back out the arm, and went into the man's heart. He died where he was sitting. Years ago, we had a local game warden, a nice fellow too, who had just written a Black guy a citation for fishing without a license. As the warden walked off, the Black man opened the trunk off his car, took a 22 rifle out and killed the warden with one shot. I think if it's your time to go, it's not going to matter what you're shot with.

Simple answer

There are no beaches close to me.I don't go to public swimming pools. I live at 7600 ft elevation. High mountain / streams were just snow 30 minutes ago.

That's a perfect explanation as to why carry of certain handguns works fine in some locales and not others. Where you are, carrying a .380 due to size isn't necessary. Where TLEE is, it makes a ton of sense.

Firearms are tools. Use the right one for the job and situation at hand, right?

What a colossal waste of time. Carry, hide/open. Who will really need a gun for defense anyhow. I learned a long time ago, it is a damn poor set of feet that will stand around and let your face get beat in!

A good pair of running shoes and a fast exit will save more lives.

Bravo. You forgot the the sarcasm face thingy.

If you're old with bad knees a fast exit is out...stand your ground and defend yourself with an adequate caliber.

So who owns a Ruger LCP 380? Geez for just over 200 bucks, why not.

I carry a .380 pretty regular, either a Kel-Tec P3aT in my pocket or a G42 in my waistband, so yeah, I'd trust my life to one.

We do.

I have one of the generation made just before they switched to the LCP II, which was their best IMO. Better than the II, which is really an entirely new design, and noticeably bigger.

Now, the LCP is no fun to shoot, that's for sure, but it's about the best deep concealment self-defense gun out there. The Glock 42 is a MUCH better shooter, but not nearly as good at a .380's intended purpose, which is pocket carry. If you are going to get a Glock 42, might as well get the 43 instead, unless one is very recoil sensitive.

Wife has an LCP II for when she's going purse less.
I have a Colt Pony Pocketlite for times when bigger won't work.

There are some amazing new creations in the world.

One is known as the "airplane" the other is commonly referred to as an "interstate."




Dave

Me.

I do. It and a Nemesis holster fit perfectly in the front pocket of my Wranglers or suit pants.

Yep..Bought an LCP for 197.00 just before christmas HO HO HO
This is a surprising little package.

That sums me up to a tee. I always wonder who these folks are that are always packing that heavy sheit, cuzz it sure ain't me.

Hell, I'm in Crocs and a swim trunks for a good majority of the summer.

A holster on my suspenders is where my Colt .380 rides sometimes.

And if you are too old or otherwise able to run?

I won't get my azz beat, I WILL shoot you if you attack me!
Plus it will probably be with a .32 H&R or a .380.

whats kind of interesting is that confrontation up in the white mountains a few days ago here in arizona. a guy got dead, the weapon used, a .22lf revolver.

We use to float the salt river pretty regularly. After an experience getting off the river to the buses to take you back to the start, I ran into a group of rather drunk and rowdy members of a minority group.
I said if i ever did that river float again, i would have a small pistol in a plastic baggy hid on my shorts somewhere.

That's the spirit.

To hell with your wife, kids, elderly or whoever else you may care about that is with you.

O.K.

Who has actually had to shoot someone? Did what you have work?

Well, it's pretty clear you haven't been reading here long. And you really haven't researched this. You have way too much to say about it, for your level of experience.

+1

Hear that, T. I've worked too damn hard and long to get to where I'm about ready to ease back a little and enjoy the fruits of that labor. Not going to be some juiced up crackhead or meth head's victim.

Plain and simple.. You come to phugck with me, I'll shoot ya.

I carry a Keltec with hydrashoks everyday so I guess yes

In my opinion. there are just too many really good, small 9mm platforms available these days that are not much bigger/heavier than available 380 platforms. So I carry 9mm or 38+P at a minimum.

YMMV...

what 9 or 38 is as small or light as a Keltec 3AT ?

I do.

Transgundered?

I am going to have to take a closer look at those Lay Cee Panty Pistols. Lol

I said "not much bigger/heavier".

But:
a DB9 is .4" longer, .5" taller, .03" wider and less than 3 oz heavier.

Taurus 709 Slim is the same height, .7 longer and less by .02 in width while weighing 1 oz more.

Beretta Nano and SCCY CPX1 are roughly .5" taller and longer with similar width. The SCCY is full 1 inch wide but holds 10 rounds.

I'll take the small trade-off in size and shoot 9mm vs 380. BUT as I also said, that's my opinion.

Me and yes. The .38 stopped him and the partners .357 ended His criminal career. This was in the dark ages before all the crunchinticker high cap pistols were the rage. We were only allowed Colt or S&W revolvers with a 4" bbl, period. Twelve extra rounds on our belt.



As you can see, I have served two departments in my time both in IL and FL.

t lee:

I have had any number of those flex lead saps. Had is the word. I kept leaving them in patrol cars and they got legs and walked away.
i tried to find a version like in your picture couldn't find one.
of another version with brown leather more of a palm shape and rigid.
if you know where i could buy one let me know.

I got one of those S&W holsters.

Yes, and yes.

Cool memorabilia of your career, Terry.

Official Police?

I like this. Every source that I read that goes down the path of 'what if you need more', when there will always be another scenario where there's one more guy than bullet.

Agreed.

Do you mean cops actually stealing from other cops?

How do I emphatically 'like' that?!

Gear adrift is gear agift.




Dave

Thought so.

And of course, there's only one thief at this station, everybody else is just trying to get their schit back.




Travis

Sure don't , "youngest" sap I own is a late sixties "Denver" flat sap. I do still have my grandpop's all powdered lead "kosh".

That is a Bucheimer "Jordon River Holster".

4" Cobra Chris.

I'll be switched! Never saw a Panty Holster before. Like to see how it works.

I think a .380 is fine. Especially if attire prohibits something larger. Most of the doubters have probably never tested any ammo to observe actual penetration.

Someone posted a similar question about the 32 ACP a number of years ago and was made fun of. There was a comment that it would “bounce off someone’s head”. I had inherited a 32 Seecamp from my father-in-law the year before and shot it at some scrap plywood I had laying around. A 60 gr Silverpoint shot through 2 pieces of 5/8” exterior sheathing at about 10 feet. I felt a lot better about the 32 ACP after that.

The is a lot of data on penetration test done by the FBI and other govt agencies that person doesn't have to do the test to come to a conclusion as to what is appropirate.

Without getting into a lot of convoluted different scenarios and just looking at your question as presented, then, "yes".

Maybe Japan? Isn't that haiku?

Agreed. But seeing the results are a little different than reading it.

But, living with "psychotic level determination" for 54 years causes me to want something bigger, I'm absolutely convinced I'm not the only one to posses it either.

How about holding one in each hand?

LOL, that worked well for that groid robbing the gun shop last month!

Actually shooting a 380 and seeing its lack of ballistic performance makes me not want to depend on its feebleness.

Do tell.
What gun were you shooting?
What were you shooting at?
What ammo were you using?
How did you analyze the results?

That dork done a backwards headbutt with pistols flying 90's out across the floor.

Yes. Almost every day. Loaded with Buffalo Bore 80gr Barnes TAC (I use Barnes for big game as well)for urban use.

Going into the high country for a hike/camping etc., my 357 gets the call.

Whatever you decide to carry, make sure the bullet is appropriate for the job at hand.

On a 900lb Moose, I want a hard cast bullet for lots of penetration. On a 180lb human, the bullet only has to get past the clothes/ribs, maybe 3-4" of penetration, to get to the heart/lungs, and the lungs aren't going to stop a bullet. Different performance requirement, for me.

A 22LR hollowpoint at 1,250fps does not hold a candle to the destructive power of a 22LR CCI Stinger at 1,640fps. Go shoot a few aluminum pop cans full of water, or any other 'reactive' target, to see the difference.

Liberty Ammunition loads very light bullets at very high velocities: 9mm, 50gr bullet at 2,000fps; 380, 50gr bullet at 1,500fps.

I place more emphasis on the bullet, than the cartridge, within reason.

The .380 is the Almond Joy of calibers.

Sometimes you feel like a nut . . .

the fire now has more nuts than knowledge. Kind of sad.

if you own one and your on the fence, shoot it at some shyt and see what happens. Shot lots of pigs in the head with a S&W bodyguard 380 before pulling them out of the traps. they tend to just drop at the shot. if it will kills pigs at 3-4yds it should be fine for 2 legged vermin at the distances i'm worried about.

Ideal? no but not a doubt that its adequate.

Yes

k22hornet in my estimation has the best solution. Place more emphasis on the bullet than the cartridge.

Counting on heads shot in a lethal confrontation is a piss poor idea. Try body shots and shoulder shots, that's a more realistic comparison.

Crickets

Stupid f'ing question. There are plenty of ballistics online test you can watch. The 380 dam sure doesn't leave as large a wound channel as a 9mm +P nor does it penetrate as well.

You'd have to be ignorant as hell to believe otherwise. If you want to carry one then knock yourself out.

Funny as hell.I hear guys say they are going to double tap,or keep shooting until it's empty, or do a head shot.
I wonder what they think the bad guys going to be doing in that time especially when most confrontations are 5-10 feet away and the bad guy is shooting back or even coming at them with a knife.

They are in fantasy land.

It doesn't take long to empty a pistol, even (or especially) at bad breath range.

Hell, it often happens without the shooter being totally cognizant of doing so.

That's not an indictment of your overall point, as it is quite valid. However, the "shoot until empty" is not exactly the same as the others.

I suspect that if this thread had been titled "would you trust your life to a 45", there would be the usual suspects that would say you need something bigger.

So, you didn't actually shoot a .380 to be "seeing it's lack of ballistic performance" (whatever that means).

Who ever compared a .380 to a 9mm +P?

Do you always just make schidt up?

You are stupid fugg. I shot a 380 you trolling POS and I find it lacking in ballistic performance just like every law enforcement agency in this country. I compared the 380 to a 9 +P dumb azz. A 9mm +P is a standard in self defense usage.

Take your crickets BS and stick it where the sun don't shine

I ignored you to start with for a reason. I shot more handgun rounds and more game with one than you've dreamed off.

How could you possibly know that?

Stop making stuff up.

And you never did answer my questions.

They weren't hard.

James Bond did amazing schit with a 380. I saw it right on the TV!

Crazy Horse carried a 380. It didn't work out.

James Bond was amazing.

He preferred a .32 ACP, but Q compelled him to switch to the "much more powerful" .380 ACP.

He started with the .25ACP and used the .32ACP for years.

Oh, you can bet, no matter what am carrying ,I will be shooting until the threat is removed, the gun is empty or I am dead. If the need ever arises,I can only hope the first scenario occurs, because once the gun is empty and the threat is not remove,the third scenario becomes very probable

Karamojo Bell used a .380 to kill 1011 elephants in his career. Some people say he used a rifle, but they are mistaken, it was a 380.

I always liked Neil Young. Didn't know he carried a 380 though....

I would carry a 380 if it was all I had and would also carry a 25 if I had nothing else. Anything is better than nothing .

Yes

Peyton Manning used a .380 to win the record for most passing yards in his career, 71,940. It was an amazing feat considering the .380 is known to be completely worthless in close quarters use.

A .380 started WWI and killed 17 million people and wounded another 20 million.

link

Link 2

Hitler considered the .380 too powerful, so he killed himself with a .32 ACP. Link

That was before the internet

i bought a 1910 a few years ago, in a flap holster and the military bring back papers. Partially because of what you wrote, partially because of my ethnic heritage, and the fact my mother and grandparents were actually residents of the austro-hungarian empire, slavic and croatian.
on netflix, is a program sarajevo, which is quite good about the black hand, the killings, and the reasons behind it. What it presents as a conclusion i don't know if accurate. But that war made a lot of money for some people at the expense of millions.

According to Q, the .380 ACP, in comparison to the puny .32 Beretta Bond was previously carrying, hits you like a brick through a pane glass window.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you haven't shot anything with a .380 side by side with a 9mm.

I have. Nope - not a scientific study. Not people. Not gel. Various other materials. Anything that is dense enough to stop a 9mm load stops the .380 sooner.

Speaking of dense....you can just get off here.

My go to carry pistol when the 1911 isn't enough

FN made some very nice, Browning-designed, little auto pistols back in the day.

Granted, but he was shooting blanks!

Since good percentage of the responders here said they would trust the .380 in certain circumstances, with the right load, I guess we are all dense.

My chosen load in the .380 is the Hornady 90 gr. Critical Defense, which penetrates 4 layers of denim and 12" of gel. Hardly "feeble" penetration.
.380 Critical Defense
And another

When carrying something bigger is not an option, I carry my Colt Pony with that load.


YMMV

I carry the exact same load in a Kimber .380, for the same reasons.

I carry a 380 with Hydrashocks. I feel secure. My advice is never to challenge a 380. It will hurt before you die.

I have that thought every time I clean my old Colt SAA in 45 Colt, you know catching one of those 255 gr lead slugs in the chest would create a serious amount of suck.

Death would not come quick enough.

That's a nice FN.
How does it shoot ?
You don't always get your pick in Fairbanks.
I am using the Critical defense in my Ruger, I'd prefer
an XTP bullet.

The CD is a better bullet.

A 380 is better than nothing. I know a man that was shot point blank with a 4 or 6 inch 38 special in the chest. As he was shot he jerked the pistol out of the shooters hand and hit him over the head so hard that he cracked his skull. His chest hurt bad so he set down and waited on police and ambulance. The medic mashed on his chest and popped the bullet put. The bullet cracked his chest bone but did not penetrate into the chest cavity. Run into someone like him and let me know how well your 380 works.

Run into that SOB, and yes, I know who it is, and you'd best be toting light artillery.

.380s work. .38s work. .32s work. 9s work. .45s work. 44s work...

All of them work, some/most of the time. When they don't, well, it's your time.

Play the game; roll the dice; take your chances.

I had the .380 on me all day today. I took my chances. Turned out fine. Tomorrow, I might have the 9 or the .45, and it might not be fine. Just the way it goes.

Ron, I am of like descent and I also do not agree with that conclusion of Sarajevo, either.

I like Hornady's claimed velocity of 1000 fps. CD
Hope I never have to use it, it would be great if it was just insurance for $20 box of ammo

My motto is "plan for the worst, hope for the best".
I also know a man that saved himself with a 32 S&W I believe was the cartridge, much less than a 380.

Target wadcutter perhaps?

No, a JHP I believe.

I have precious little experience with getting shot, or shooting people, but was with a pard moments after he was shot at point blank range, square in the head, with a 9mm hydra shok out of a Beretta 92.

He never lost consciousness and actually called 911.

I'd happily use a 380 with a hard cast, flat point bullet at 1000fps+ If my bud had been hit with that, he'd be dead.

Nobody is dense for using a .380 when they can't pack anything bigger. I've done it myself, but as I stated, don't need to anymore.

No, the "dense" remark was aimed at your challenge to the fact that the .380, compared side by side to other calibers - say 9mm - lacks penetration. jwp described that as "feeble", and given that handguns in general are in fact feeble, the .380 is more feeble. Arguing that point is...dense.

Winchester's USA .380 flatnose FMJ cuts a 35 caliber hole and penetrates 18+ inches of gel. Not Thor's hammer, but not bad for a pocket gun either.

Any scenario other than arms length is not where I'd want a mouse gun.

Exactly.

I don't recall saying that you should want or use a mouse gun.

You didn't I was just commenting, I should have been more clear.

The 380 will work most of the time, 45 will work most of the time, 357 will work most of the time, 40 will work most of the time but nothing works every time. Any gun is better than no gun. The best I can say about the 380 is, it is small and you will have it with you most of the time and that is what counts if you need a handgun to save your life..

Time to break out the waders ......

He ain't lying.

I said 1910, but i should have been more specific, the one i got was the colt 1910-22, made specifically for export to yugoslavia, had a little longer barrel, little bigger gun.

No Sir he isn't.

thanks everyone I have sold all but two of my 380's. Actually just traded one of them for a 9mm Shield with Night Sights plus some money. The pocket 380 fills a niche for me, as does the titanium 38 J frame. When I have on a bathing suit, flip flops, and a T shirt the J frame with hip grip is with me.

This thread starter should have maybe been, do you trust your life with your current skill set or are you a legend in your own mind?

I trust my life with my current level of training/skill, because I have to; but I am always trying to get better, because my family needs me to.

That goes for CCW, fitness, driving, cooking (okay, maybe especially for cooking), hunting, trapping, gardening, butchering, food prep and preservation, and my professional capabilities.

YMMV, of course.