Hi,Would like to know how the new model 70's compare to the old Model 70 Winchesters.Is the new, MOA trigger, as good as the ones on the older version.
Any information ,reviews,etc, on the new model 70 would be greatly appreciated.
Also is the wood on the new supergrade model 70's worth the extra money over the sporter models?.Thank you.
If you do a quick search, you'll bring up about a thousand threads re: pros/cons of the SC models..
If you do a quick search, you'll bring up about a thousand threads re: pros/cons of the SC models..
Mostly positive. Except Redneck don't like the new trigger design.
Having owned a few of each, my experience is that the quality is better on the new ones.
I like them too...and my customer feedback is excellent..
I have a FWT in .243 that is finally showing promise and an extreme weather in 300 wsm. They aren't perfect but are much better than the patterns I ever got with my early 90's vintage 7mm rem mag (which I spent several hundred on trying to get sub moa). I like them! I really like the way they feed. This is particularly noticable with the 300 wsm. My Xbolt will sometimes bind when run on the slow side and fail to feed a new round. I have had no problems with the model 70 in this regard. The Xbolt is accurate enough but I'm thinking it will probably hit the road when the extreme weather is broke in.
I have 2 of the new Mod 70 and both are well made and accurate.I think their one of the best factory offering available.
If I had a choice between a pre 64 and a new SC 70 I would choose the SC made 70.
If you do a quick search, you'll bring up about a thousand threads re: pros/cons of the SC models..
Mostly positive. Except Redneck don't like the new trigger design.
Hi,from these statements, looks like Mr Redneck and Mr SouthTexas are quite familiar with the Winchester model 70's.
Would appreciate it if you 2 gentlemen would take the time and effort to please post your take on the new model 70's.Would like to hear from someone who has personal experience
Also why do you like the old trigger more?.
Seems like some of the men who posted seem to like the new model 70 more than the old ones.Do you both also go along with this.
Thank you all for the the info provided.
If I had a choice between a pre 64 and a new SC 70 I would choose the SC made 70.
So would I...and I did on my latest purchase!
Mr Ingwe,you had mentioned that your customer feedback on the new 70's has been good.Also that you have now purchased one for yourself.
Is the wood on the new supergrade worth the extra over the regular sporter models?.
Are the action and barrels made in the SC plant?.
Do the African safari rifles also come with the MOA trigger.
Do all their models come with a plastic follower or do some come with a steel follower.
What are things on this rifle that make you chose this over a pre-64 model.Thank you.
If you do a quick search, you'll bring up about a thousand threads re: pros/cons of the SC models..
Mostly positive. Except Redneck don't like the new trigger design.
Redneck isn't the only one that doesn't like the new moa trigger. I was just shooting a fwt that I recently bought here and my ruger m77 hawkeye for a comparison and also a FN PBR XP for a further comparison (since the new winchesters are made by fn now). Where do I begin????
1. "moa" trigger, adjusted down to a lighter pull compared to my hawkeye that I've honed and polished and installed a lighter spring on. Which is better:
Ruger Hawkeye.
WHY?: The new trigger just isn't as smooth, slight creep, pull weight has a very minimal adjustment at that, don't like the enclosed design because of grit and grime + freezing temps and moisture could render it inoperable.
The fn pbr xp trigger is a dream!!!!!!! I haven't touched it and it is smooth and crisp, and has no creep whatsoever. It is better than any winchester trigger I've used, but is based off the old design.
Besides the trigger, the new SC (fn made) Winchesters are very nice. Fit and finish are exceptional, bedding is great, and the action is smooth and reminiscent of the pre 64 more so than the older classics (New Haven made). You'll no doubt be happy with one if you do decide to buy, hope this helps.
I owned an older Model 70 PF in 25/06 that was a good shooting rifle. It was a built in the early 70's.
Had another in .308 that was o.k. but needed a little work.
The newer Model 70's are better rifles in almost every way IMO.
I've shot the new trigger enough to know it's an improvement. Throw a lighter ernie spring in it and rock on.
JM
If I had a choice between a pre 64 and a new SC 70 I would choose the SC made 70.
Honestly, if I had to make a decision on which one to keep out of my pre-64 model 70 30-06, my classic sporter 30-06, and my new SC made model 70, I'd pick the pre 64. It is smoother, more accurate thus far, tried and true. The real rifleman's rifle.
Pre 64's were fine rifles, but I believe folks fond memories have accorded them a status they may not deserve.
IMO, the Browing FN High Power was the better rifle of that time.
JM
Pre 64's were fine rifles, but I believe folks fond memories have accorded them a status they may not deserve.
IMO, the Browing FN High Power was the better rifle of that time.
JM
Funny you say that about the browning fn high power as there was one in the local newspaper in "excellent" condition for $450.00. I looked up the book value and called the guy and he said it didn't last a day, It was SOLD!!!! I was ready to pounce on that deal. I'd love to have one some day.
If I had a choice between a pre 64 and a new SC 70 I would choose the SC made 70.
Honestly, if I had to make a decision on which one to keep out of my pre-64 model 70 30-06, my classic sporter 30-06, and my new SC made model 70, I'd pick the pre 64. It is smoother, more accurate thus far, tried and true. The real rifleman's rifle.
The Pre '64 M70's are nice rifles, especially if you happen to have a good one that has been 'dialed in'....
Super smooth actions, great triggers, and very accurate, even with low cost factory ammunition;
![[Linked Image]](http://dogsdoom.com/PI/3006-target-150.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://dogsdoom.com/PI/3006-target-220.jpg)
If I had a choice between a pre 64 and a new SC 70 I would choose the SC made 70.
Honestly, if I had to make a decision on which one to keep out of my pre-64 model 70 30-06, my classic sporter 30-06, and my new SC made model 70, I'd pick the pre 64. It is smoother, more accurate thus far, tried and true. The real rifleman's rifle.
The Pre '64 M70's are nice rifles, especially if you happen to have a good one that has been 'dialed in'....
Super smooth actions, great triggers, and very accurate, even with low cost factory ammunition;
IMO the status afforded Pre 64s is deserved because it was earned throughout the hunting fields of the world over an extended period of time.
However, from what I've read here, the newer ones are finished along with accuracy to a level that it would be unrealistic to say they are inferior.
Never thought about the trigger until I had an enclosed trigger not hold up to the weather and inattention on my part. At which time it became unsafe. Admittedly the blame is on me, however experience tells me the old style Model 70 trigger probably would have remained functional.
That seems to be a common complaint. I've used them problem free for years in some freezing wet weather, but we don't get temps much below the mid 20's here either and I've always been able to clean it at night.
I put a dab of gun grease in mine and I'm pretty anal about taking stuff apart and cleaning it if it gets soaked.
JM
Took about three months for mine to go completely south. Trigger pull seemed to be going up, but I figured I would take care of things at the end of the Pa. Deer season.
Came home from hunting the first week and was wiping it off. All of sudden the pin would fall when you let the safety off or it wouldn't hold when you worked the bolt.
Learned a lesson.
Mr Ingwe,you had mentioned that your customer feedback on the new 70's has been good.Also that you have now purchased one for yourself.
Is the wood on the new supergrade worth the extra over the regular sporter models?.
Are the action and barrels made in the SC plant?.
Do the African safari rifles also come with the MOA trigger.
Do all their models come with a plastic follower or do some come with a steel follower.
What are things on this rifle that make you chose this over a pre-64 model.Thank you.
Raj- sorry it took so long for reply...I'll try to andwer your questions in order...
1. The wood on the new Supergrade is not, IMO worth the extra, plus...the metal is a high gloss...not my cup-o-tea..
2.Actions and barrels are made in SC by FN
3.African Model does comes with MOA trigger as far as I know...and the jury is still out on that trigger...
4.My .22-250 Fwt. has a metal follower
5.Things that made me choose it over pre-64...I too think a little waxing nostalgic goes on with a pre-64...they are excellent rifles, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they have a leg up on a few others. Customer feedback was my big decision, it has been universally excellent, even, or I should say especially, amongst those who own both the SC rifles, and pre-64s...
JMHO,and like belly buttons, everybody will have one based on instinct,appearance, individual experiences,etc.....
I like the new SC rifles real well.They shoot super IME.....just like a pre 64.....
When push comes to shove,I want the pre 64...too many sub MOA groups and too many dead animals.....
I want the trigger.I will restock them if necessary.I don't care....
It was the original...everything flowed from them,an attempt to recreate them.....there is a reason for that, no matter how vague and obscure they may be......I will pick up one of the old rifles and trust my life or the most important hunt to them.
They are "money" rifles....JMHO and YMMV
How long have they been making them in SC?
I've considered picking up a M70 off Gunbroker or whatever, but how can I know if the rifle was build in SC?
I've considered picking up a M70 off Gunbroker or whatever, but how can I know if the rifle was build in SC?
Ask.......
But if its more than 3 years old...it wasnt made in SC..
[quote=ingweBut if its more than 3 years old...it wasnt made in SC.. [/quote]
Knew that, just didn't know if there were any visual cues or Item Number differences that would be a give away.
I've considered picking up a M70 off Gunbroker or whatever, but how can I know if the rifle was build in SC?
Visually from the GB pic, the difference is the NH versions have a blued extractor and the SC versions have a polished extractor. Also, most of the NH versions have a red recoil pad and the NC versions have a black 1 inch pad. If you can get a close up of the action, The NH versions have a seial number beginning with "G" and 6 or 7 numbers and NV version have a long number that goes on forever.
JW
[quote=ingweBut if its more than 3 years old...it wasnt made in SC..
Knew that, just didn't know if there were any visual cues or Item Number differences that would be a give away. [/quote]
Look at the sticker on the barrel.
You cannot always rely on those pics. I purchased two late model NH M70s NIB; both have black pads, and both have 416 stainless extractors.
I'd say if you aren't sure, just ask the seller.
- I think the main difference is that the SC M70 is machined differently to fit the Browning box trigger. I can understand the business logic of fitting their Browning trigger into the rifle, but I much prefer the older open Winchester trigger.
- Winchester no longer makes the wood stocks and they are currently jobbed out to one of the Italian gun makers. I'm sure they have some nice ones, but not sure if they are as nicely figured as the older stocks.
- SC Winchesters have newer machinery, so they should have closer tolerances than the later NH.
- Williams made the one piece bottom metal for the NH M70s along with the 416 stainless extractors. SC M70s use PTG for the bottom metal, unsure who makes the extractors.
Most everything else is about the same. If you like a Browning box trigger, you'll probably not care that the Winchester trigger was dumped. If you like the robust Mauser style Winchester trigger, you'll probably be unhappy that it is now gone. I think the older Winchester trigger was one of the finest takes on a Mauser hunting trigger offered on a production rifle. But it is now gone and there's nothing we can do about it as the two do not interchange in the new SC rifle.
Later
How long have they been making them in SC?
Since 2008.
I've handled all the hunting models (Featherweight, Extreme Weather, Super Grade and Sporter) and must say they are impressive in build quality.
I like the trigger...very crisp with minimal creep. I'm not one to tinker with triggers, though, so I can't say it's better than the old style trigger. All I know is the old style trigger needed some work to get where these are from the factory.
IMHO, the Super Grade wood was better on older models. The bluing is really nice on the new ones, though.
I like the looks of the older red recoil pads better, but the function of the new black Decelerators is clearly better than the old hard rubber.
The stocks on the new Featherweight seem a bit plain-Jane to me. I've seen nicer wood on older models.
One thing about the new rifles that is unmistakable for their heritage is the slickness of the action. The bolt slides like a hot knife through butter and feels very nice.
One thing I've noticed on all the new models I've handled is the three-position safety is a bit sticky. Perhaps it will smooth out with use but there is definitely some grittiness when you move it back and forth.
All that said, I love them and will be getting one soon. Probably a sporter in .270 Win or a FWT in .308 Win.
Mr Ingwe,you had mentioned that your customer feedback on the new 70's has been good.Also that you have now purchased one for yourself.
Is the wood on the new supergrade worth the extra over the regular sporter models?.
Are the action and barrels made in the SC plant?.
Do the African safari rifles also come with the MOA trigger.
Do all their models come with a plastic follower or do some come with a steel follower.
What are things on this rifle that make you chose this over a pre-64 model.Thank you.
Raj- sorry it took so long for reply...I'll try to andwer your questions in order...
1. The wood on the new Supergrade is not, IMO worth the extra, plus...the metal is a high gloss...not my cup-o-tea..
2.Actions and barrels are made in SC by FN
3.African Model does comes with MOA trigger as far as I know...and the jury is still out on that trigger...
4.My .22-250 Fwt. has a metal follower
5.Things that made me choose it over pre-64...I too think a little waxing nostalgic goes on with a pre-64...they are excellent rifles, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they have a leg up on a few others. Customer feedback was my big decision, it has been universally excellent, even, or I should say especially, amongst those who own both the SC rifles, and pre-64s...
Mr Ingwe,thank you very much for answering my question.Appreciate all the valuable info.
Thanks to all you gentleman who have come forward with all the info.
Is it possible to switch this trigger to a Timney/Jewell if needs be.Or is it still new and these companies have not come out with an aftermarket trigger?.
Have others had the problem that Battue has had with the trigger.
If you do a quick search, you'll bring up about a thousand threads re: pros/cons of the SC models..
Mostly positive. Except Redneck don't like the new trigger design.
Redneck isn't the only one that doesn't like the new moa trigger. I was just shooting a fwt that I recently bought here and my ruger m77 hawkeye for a comparison and also a FN PBR XP for a further comparison (since the new winchesters are made by fn now). Where do I begin????
1. "moa" trigger, adjusted down to a lighter pull compared to my hawkeye that I've honed and polished and installed a lighter spring on. Which is better:
Ruger Hawkeye.
WHY?: The new trigger just isn't as smooth, slight creep, pull weight has a very minimal adjustment at that, don't like the enclosed design because of grit and grime + freezing temps and moisture could render it inoperable.
The fn pbr xp trigger is a dream!!!!!!! I haven't touched it and it is smooth and crisp, and has no creep whatsoever. It is better than any winchester trigger I've used, but is based off the old design.
Besides the trigger, the new SC (fn made) Winchesters are very nice. Fit and finish are exceptional, bedding is great, and the action is smooth and reminiscent of the pre 64 more so than the older classics (New Haven made). You'll no doubt be happy with one if you do decide to buy, hope this helps.
BSA 1917 hunter,thank you very much for this info on the triggers(and on the rifles).
Is it possible to change this trigger to the FN PBR XP trigger.I am not familiar with that rifle and also am not a gunsmith.Just curious and also want to see what options one has, to avoid problems with the trigger like Mr Battue had.
Raj
The trigger problem I had was essentially my fault. If I would have properly taken care of it, in a reasonable amount of time, after it became dunked in a stream there would not have been a problem.
It was not on a SC Model 70, but another rifle that had an enclosed trigger. Pretty much same/same.
However, I do feel the old style Model 70 would have remained functional and safe from past experience over the years.
Hello Mr Battue,
thank you very much for the above.
All in all seems that the new model is a decent successor to the old pre-64 model.Except for the trigger being the only major questionable item,so far.
Guess people don't listen to the old saying,"don't fix it if it is'nt broken".
Complication of the tried, true and known breeds it own problems.
In my case I treated something new-at least to me-in the same way I treated something known and it didn't work.
Addition: I'm in Bob's camp on this one. While it is a modern duplication of the original, given a choice I would take the original. There is an essential intrinsic quality that so far they have failed to reproduce.
..There is an essential intrinsic quality that so far they have failed to reproduce.
Mystique. It can only be reproduced over time.
If you get a SC M70, I'd follow their recommended maintenance, keep a weathered eye on it, and just live with having the Browning box trigger. If I had my drothers, I'd much prefer the open and simpler NH M70 trigger, which is basically a refined robust Mauser design. It gives you everything needed to make a perfect hunting trigger while maintaining trench warfare durability. The Browning trigger is Rube Goldberg.
Best:)
..There is an essential intrinsic quality that so far they have failed to reproduce.
Mystique. It can only be reproduced over time.
Wish the new guys all the best, but I will not be around to know if they solved the mystery.
IMO they need to cover new ground and scale the whole down to where they have a true FWT. The blueprint has already been drawn for them.
If you do a quick search, you'll bring up about a thousand threads re: pros/cons of the SC models..
Mostly positive. Except Redneck don't like the new trigger design.
Redneck isn't the only one that doesn't like the new moa trigger. I was just shooting a fwt that I recently bought here and my ruger m77 hawkeye for a comparison and also a FN PBR XP for a further comparison (since the new winchesters are made by fn now). Where do I begin????
1. "moa" trigger, adjusted down to a lighter pull compared to my hawkeye that I've honed and polished and installed a lighter spring on. Which is better:
Ruger Hawkeye.
WHY?: The new trigger just isn't as smooth, slight creep, pull weight has a very minimal adjustment at that, don't like the enclosed design because of grit and grime + freezing temps and moisture could render it inoperable.
The fn pbr xp trigger is a dream!!!!!!! I haven't touched it and it is smooth and crisp, and has no creep whatsoever. It is better than any winchester trigger I've used, but is based off the old design.
Besides the trigger, the new SC (fn made) Winchesters are very nice. Fit and finish are exceptional, bedding is great, and the action is smooth and reminiscent of the pre 64 more so than the older classics (New Haven made). You'll no doubt be happy with one if you do decide to buy, hope this helps.
BSA 1917 hunter,thank you very much for this info on the triggers(and on the rifles).
Is it possible to change this trigger to the FN PBR XP trigger.I am not familiar with that rifle and also am not a gunsmith.Just curious and also want to see what options one has, to avoid problems with the trigger like Mr Battue had.
Raj, If I were you , I wouldn't concern myself too much with the new trigger. Their intentions were to make it better and more modern than the old pre 64 type. Ironically, all of my hunting rifles wear the mauser style military trigger (single stage such as the pre-64/new haven etc.) except for my sporterized m1917 which was an actual military rifle at one time
. This rifle has a timney, which I absolutely love. I'd have to say this rifle also goes out in the field with me more than any other rifle does. I'm anal about keeping my rifles clean and the trigger mechanism on this gets blown out with light compressed air periodically. I've never had one problem with the timeneys, so in retrospect I think you will get by just fine with the SC made winchester model 70. Mine handles great, it is light, bedded right (for once!!!!!! you guys won't be seeing a bedding post on this one
) and damn accurate right out of the box. Hope this helps you Raj. Take care and good luck.
bsa1917hunter,
thank you for the above words.Appreciate that very much.Hope if I do "pull the trigger",on one of the new SC 70's it will serve me as well as your BSA 1917.