I am considering purchasing either a 300 WM or a 300 WSM. Which caliber offers the better accuracy? I reload for all of my rifles so factory ammo doesn't matter. I am a whitetail... mule deer or elk hunter. I will be purchasing a mid to lower priced rifle.

I've owned both and don't think one is any more inherently accurate than the other, but prefer a short action, lightweight rifle, so settled on a Kimber Montana .300 WSM.

BTW, both of said cartridges have the same caliber.

I like em both prefer the wsm.

I've had both. If I had either, and liked it I probably wouldn't trade for the other. But if buying new the WSM is the only way to go in my opinion.

The WSM's advantages are subtle, but there are enough to sway my opinion. The WSM is proving to be more accurate. A new 1,0000 yard benchrest record was recently set with a 300 WSM.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...2-815-record-at-1000-yards-with-300-wsm/

The WSM gives you about 1%-2% less velocity with about 15% less powder and about 10% less recoil in rifles of equal weight, or about the same recoil if you want a lighter rifle.

It is possible to build a much lighter rifle in 300 WSM, but other than Kimber, no other rifle maker is really taking advantage of this. A short action is about 1/4 lb lighter than a long action, but it is possible to take more than that off.

In a nutshell you get 300 WM performance, in a 308 package with hot 30-06 recoil.

Flip a coin, buy the first rifle you find that you really want in either caliber.

If your going to use heavy for caliber projectiles for Elk the 300 win mag has to be the better option

The 300WSM is available in a lighter rifle than the 300 Win Mag. The 300 Win Mag has a higher muzzle velocity. But I challenge anyone to view a dead Elk and say which of the two cartridges it was shot with.

All good points guys. My preference leans a bit towards the WSM. Only because I'm still pissed at winchester for dragging their feet for 4 years and not doing like Norma did with their 308 magnum. Rant over..

.300WM,although you will load your own,the Belted .300 will have ammo anywhere you go,in case you lose your's.

Either will work and work very well. I owned a couple 300 WM and they were good. I presently own a wsm and thats what I recommend if you dont have either one. He is my New Haven m70 in a high grade FW stock. Fitted and bedded. Its a fine shooter. One of my favorites.

I've owned both and in my experience the WSM is more accurate.

I didn't own my 300 mag long enough to hone in on a variety of loads. At 7.3# (with scope and rings) it was too much of a good thing for my tastes. Conversely, I have a WSM in a similarly configured rifle and it's a putty-tat. Ergo, the WSM is more accurate.

You might consider the 300 saum also. bought one here in the classifieds a few months ago, its quickly becoming my favorite 300 mag

I've owned and hunted with several of both and have yet to find any difference in accuracy. I have, however, found the claim of essentially equal velocity to be BS.

This is because the .300 Winchester Magnum has more case capacity--and there is no magic "efficiency" in the .300 WSM case to make up for that. The .300 Winchester Magnum will top out at least 100 fps faster, using handloads with published data, and often more. In my 24" barreled Heym SR-21, Accurate Magpro will reach 3200 fps with 180-grain bullets, and most other approrpiate powder will get 3100-3150 with PUBLISHED data.

Oh, and the same rifle averages less than .6" with 168-grain TSX's. Have seen that sort of accuracy with plenty of other factory .300 Winchesters as well,

Whether the extra velocity makes any difference in the field is another question. My vote is that it doesn't, but I eventually went back to the .300 Winchester because ammo is available anywhere hunting ammunition can be purchased.

Now chit's changed. All I see on the shelves is odd ball stuff like the wsm's and 280 rem.

That's a beautiful rifle. I have one almost just like it.

bsa,

Yep, it changed in the past six months!

And it will change again in the next six months--though I doubt it's changed at all in Europe, northern Canada or southern Africa.

THNX MD

I didn't see HOW the wsm could be significantly more accurate.

Yep, you can't make up for displacement (larger powder capacity).

It has been HARD to bite my lip. I can smell BS too. You have MORE experience with these than I, and your testimony has MORE weight.

THNX again.

Six of one half a dozen of another. Pick the one the floats your boat. Both are 30 cal and capable of fine accuracy. Some of the newer powders designed or the wsm cartridges really close any velocity differences between the two.

Look at a reamer print for the two (SAAMI) and you can see why the WSM has the edge in accuracy.

I've owned a number of both over the years and still own at least one of each. My favorite is the WSM, without a doubt, but I wouldn't hesitate to go either direction.

+1. I sold the Browning A-Bolt in 300 WM and picked up a Kimber Montana in 300 WSM and have never looked back. Much lighter, shorter and easier to handle.

donsm70

You are right JB. I also agree that the 300 win has more oomph than the wsm and the wsm falls flat on its face with bullets heavier than 200 gr's. Now as far as accuracy is concerned, in my experience it's been a wash. I've had some damn accurate rifles chambered for both rounds. When I look at a 300 wsm I think of a +P fat 30-06 which can be chambered in a short action rifle. That in itself may be considered a benefit by some/many...

Sounds like you have no need for those pre 64 model 70 300 H&H's ..Keep me in mind ol buddy..

I've owned and loaded for a few of each. In my rifles the 300 Win has constantly been more accurate.

Although, the Wins have been sporter weight and heavier and the WSMs and SUAMs have all been lighter weights.

Packing in elk country, I like the shorts mags, because of the lighter rifles. But, there sure isn't anything wrong with the Win.

So buy a Weatherby Vanguard Sub-MOA in 300WBY, just put less powder in if you want Win Mag or WSM performance. If not, same rifle in which ever one of the others comes along first.

I'd wager that factory .300 WSM ammo is easier to find on a store's shelves nowadays than .300 WM.

Apples vs apples here as ballistically they are virtually the same and anyone is really splitting hairs to argue different, the real question is are you a short action man or do you prefer a long action rifle....I will say that it will be easier to find factory ammo at any country store for a Win mag than a WSM...I like both but prefer the Win. Mag, a long action rifle fit's My 6ft 2 inch frame better.........No bad choice here............Good luck..........Hb

Not in My neck of the woods, both are available at any of My local Wally Worlds, more 300 Win. though as they handle more of this cartridge than WSM stuff, if you get out in the country away from Wally's you will find mostly 300 Win only as the little country stores in these parts rarely stock WSM ammo................Hb

The rifle itself matters to me. Can you find the rifle you prefer in one or the other of them?

I was loading some 300 Win Mags today and reaching inside each case with a wire feeler to check for case thinning and separations.

I could feel a significant one and I cut the case in half to see it up close. It was not all that bad but you wont get that with a 300 WSM if you size them right.

The 300 Win. Mag kicks! Bet the WSM does too!

.............Owned and reloaded a 300 WM Wby Vanguard for over 30 years. Sold it in `07 and now have a 300 WSM. For my 30 caliber, I changed the format to a compact rifle.

For NA hunting use, there is no advantage that one will have over the other when using bullet weights up to and including 200 gr. Accuracy will depend more on what any individual rifle prefers in components and seating depths.

My suggestion to you is to throw out which cartridge and go after the rifle you prefer for better overall looks, weight, balance, feel, and the rifle that will better suit your hunting terrain, carrying and handling situations.

The cartridge will then follow.

All that means is that the .300 WM is more popular than the .300 WSM.

This is true IME and from 24 inch barrels as well.The 30 Win Mag is capable of a full 150-200 fps more velocity than the WSM with 180 gr bullets and I have routinely gotten well over 3200 with 165's and about 2950 with the 200 gr.It takes a 300 Weatherby and 26 inches of tube to top it.

I like the WSM even though it is not as fast,and speed isn't everything.It is easy to load,accurate, and does not seem to recoil as severely as top loads in a 300 Win Mag.

The rifle weight thing is still a conundrum to me because I have had a pair of Kimbers chambered for the WSM and found them both bothersome...and don't like any 300 magnum weighing under 8 pounds all up.

I think the M70 EW and FW as currently made are about ideal for the cartridge.

When I was younger the 300 magnums held a lot of appeal to me but today I am very firmly a 30/06 guy.

If you size the brass right, you won't get that with a .300WM either.

As far as I'm concerned, either will work. Look into ammo costs if you don't reload and I think you'll find .300WM ammo available for less. I just picked up two boxes of 180g Soft Point in Federal's blue box for $19.99 at Wal-Mart for my son-in-law.

Mine is also a WM and I' have no desire or need for a WSM.

Many good comments posted to consider. The difference in velocity between the WSM and the WM is notable but only to the shooters logbook. As long as you know your "drops" and put a well constructed bullet in the right place, you will have no problem. As "bsa" already pointed out, the 300WSM is a faster 30-06. For me it would come down to whatever "package" fit how and where I was going to use it.
Both are very good if you can handle them.

Having owned two 300 win mags and five 300 WSM's myself, I disagree with this statement or let me say I am not convinced of this statement.

I've found that there are newer powders that work with the shorter WSM case design that do indeed give higher speeds, and using published data.

I currently get 3,250 with 168's using Superformance powder.

I also have no short commings using heavier 200's and 220's in the WSM.

A short action with a 23" barrel makes for a nice rifle package.

I'll take the WSM over the Win anyday. Or a 308 Norma Mag which I now shoot as well.

Flip a coin as far as performance goes.Buy the rifle that fits you the best.

One quick question, do you prefer wood or metal for a coffin?

laffin

One other issue as it pertains to these two rounds. The 300 Win Mag feeds very well from most any gun. The same can not be said for the short/fats.

good call

That's what I thought as well. Some guys will argue, but I've seen it first hand.

Did you have issues with feeding?

It can be said to the five I've owned. Especially if it is a PF rifle.



Was it the rifle or was it due to cartridge design?

I get 3200 easily with IMR 4350/ wonder what I could get w/Superformance in the WM?

I am skeptical about that. Have you tried, or can you crowd 3000fps w/200 gr. in the wsm?

Yes, I did. Even when I got the issues sorted out it still wouldn't feed as smoothly as a 300 win mag would.

I've owned 10 different Win M70's in WSM (4 270s, 3 7mm's and 3 300's), still own 7 - one had to have the extractor adjusted slightly to feed smooth consistently. None of the others had/have had any issues whatsoever feeding perfectly fine. I've heard other rifles (M700 for instance) having issues, but my experience with M70's is great.

I doubt SuperF powder would work in the win mag.



This was my last load I just shot with a 190.

64.6 grains of 17 behind a 190 VLD win mag primer for over 3,000 mv.

I have shot 200 NP's but after having just moved I need to find my notes on that load. No problem loading and feeding it though.

If you're looking for a great deal, I recently bought a Tikka T3 chambered in a 300 WSM. I love it! It is the most accurate factory barrel I have ever come across. A lot of guys complain about short mags not feeding well, but I haven't had any trouble with mine, and the action is VERY, VERY smooth. I shoot 180 gr accubonds with 67 gr of rl19. Muzzle velocity 3010. The design of the short mag achieves the same velocity with less powder. As soon as I can find some on the shelves I'm going to try rl17. It's a faster burning powder and specifically designed for short mags. If you compare factory ammo, muzzle velocity in the federal ammo is the EXACT same. Winchester ammo claims the WSM to be slightly faster.

Reason I chose WSM... Shorter barrel, lighter weight, same velocity, awesome accuracy! Definitely look at the Tikka. I'm very happy with mine, and I got the synthetic/stainless model for $659 at Sportsmans Wearhouse.

If you want a 300 magnum, then go with the original Winchester version. It's the better hunting mouse trap.

SU35,

Your point about newer powders for the .300 WSM would be valid, except newer powders have also helped the .300 Winchester. In my Heym Magpro will get 3200 fps from a 180, and in most .300 Winchesters 3250 is easy even with old-timey powders with 165-168 grain bullets.

Yes, there are quite a few lighter factory rifles chambered in .300 WSM. But they're light not because of any vast difference in short or long actions (there's at MOST a 4-ounce difference) but because the rifles are made lighter. My first .300 Winchester Magnum was a NULA that weighed 7 pounds scoped, and it was extremely accurate, great to carry, and not at all disturbing to shoot, even with the 200-grain handloads I used.

My experience with model 70's has been great as well. The one I was speaking of was a ruger m77 that I was wanting to buy (at a local gunshow). It's been a few years back but I remember it had problems, needless to say I didn't buy the rifle...

I got a 300WSM its a M-70 I had it since I bought it in 2000, once I got the crooked chamber taken care of, I zeroed it it, and had not shot it since, I thought at the time it would be my only go to rifle, I just never warmed up to it. I shoot a 7mm Remington Mag these days. If you must, I think you should just buy what ever you want and leave it at that. Ask yourself how much Elk hunting you really plan on doing, then ask yourself do I really need all the recoil and muzzle blast for MN white tails at the ranges I generally shoot? My guess a 270 would serve you well. Heck I would even suggest a 7mm RM and call it good.

[/quote]

"If you size the brass right, you won't get that with a .300WM either."

Your wrong about that. The should moves forward with new brass on the first firing with a belted magnum. That stretches the weak expansion web.

"If you size the brass right, you won't get that with a .300WM either."

Your wrong about that. The should moves forward with new brass on the first firing with a belted magnum. That stretches the weak expansion web.
[/quote]


And it doesn't with a non-belted??????.....

I've heard a few people say... If you can get that kind of velocity with RL17 in a WSM imagine what it would do in a win mag. Keep in mind. Powders like RL17 that produce amazing muzzle velocity in short mags are specifically designed for short mags. They are faster burning powders. For the 300 win you want to go with a slower burning powder like RL22. If you try a fast burning powder such as imr4350 or RL17 in a long action magnum rifle, you might not be happy with the results. Read the Allient manual, it will tell you which powders are recommended to achieve the best performance in your rifle.
Back to the original question, they are both GREAT hunting rifles. There were just enough benefits in the short mag for myself that I decided to go that route.
I tried to post a picture of a 3 shot group from my Tikka, but the file was too big to download... But I was shooting federal factory vital shok ammo, 180 gr accubond, and had a 3 shot group that could be covered with a dime. Very impressive accuracy!!

............Well I dunno great Waaaa-poops. Haven`t thought about it. But I see that your childish mind has.

But you are more than welcome to visit here and personally design one for me though ...Hey! Maybe you`d like to make the prank really come true. For many, you can be the big forum hero by proxy, as I`m sure you`d love to really contribute to my "true" demise.

Why hell, "anyone" can easily kick my butt! ....Even an older and less mature guy such as yourself.

One foot in the coffin you design for me and the other on the banana peel... ......Oh I`m sure you can handle it ok poops.....

If you get stretching and incipient case head separations, as shown in the photo, with new brass on the first firing, something is seriously wrong either with the brass (too short) or the chamber (too long).

After the first firing neck sizing will pretty much eliminate the case stretching as well. There isn�t a nickel�s worth of difference between the 7mm RM and .300WM case designs and I have 7mm RM brass that I�ve tossed after 15 firings as a matter of policy rather than because of case stretching and incipient case head separation. I have yet to toss any .300WM brass and I check each case with a feeler gage every time I reload them.

CH is right per usual....beltless cases have web areas, too....and if you repeatedly fire them and then set shoulders back in resizing, they will pull apart just like belted cases.

Here's a Ruger .300WM target. First shot was from a clean/oiled bore:



While this rifle won't be setting any 1000 yard records, I took it and a Ruger .30-06 to the range for a final check before elk/deer season in 2011. After a quick scope check at 100 yards I moved to the long range where I fired a total of 5 shots at clay pigeons on the 600 yard berm, breaking a pigeon with each rifle, 2 shots with one, 3 with the other. (Don't recall which was which.)

Last year I took my longest shot on big game ever with the .300WM and was rewarded with a one shot kill at 400 yards. (Yeah, I know that isn't very far for a .300WM or WSM or even a .30-06.) Having stupidly left my range finder at home, however, I was might glad to have the .300 in my hands. A WSM would have worked just as well.

The cow is down inside the circle. The range of 400 yards was determined by GPS readings taken at the time and Google Earth when I got home.

+1 Yup, 300 H&H!

And it doesn't with a non-belted??????..... [/quote]

No not nearly as much.

When the firing pin of a 30-06 hits the primer it pushes the cartdridge forward and it touches the shoulder and then it fires.

When a belted 300 WM's pin hits the primer the case stops on the belt and then it fires blowing the shoulder forward and stretching the case at it's expansion web.

I've had both and they can be very accurate, either one!

The difference is in power, the 300 WSM is milder on my joints.

MD



Still, the powders for the WSM work in that case design as the powder manufacture designed it to.

Curios though, what newer powders have you seen work in the 300 Win to enhance it?

Yep, that or what Winchester should have been: The 308 Norma magnum...

Why should Win produce or adopt a cartridge with LESS potential?

I have always liked the LOOKS and performance of the 300 Win Mag.

Some suggest that you can get a lighter gun in the 300wsm. Come on do you really want a lighter gun in a 300 mag. I've shot one for about 30 years and on the bench i wish it weighed another couple pounds. If your a couple rounds a year guy it dies't matter but if your a shooter- lighter isn't better. Opinions vary. ED K

So what you are suggesting is that a .30-06 (or other non-belted case) has to stretch from the shoulder to the rear while a belted case stretches from the belt forward. Regardless, both stretch.

Moreover, non-belted cartridges are perfectly capable of firing long BEFORE the shoulder contacts the chamber wall. I fireform 6.5-06AI cases from .25-06 brass where the only thing holding the cartridge in place is the extractor. The AI shoulder is WAY forward of the standard placement and as yet I've not had a fire-form cartridge fail to fire.

Here's another example of a cartridge firing before the shoulder contacts the chamber wall - a .30-30 fired in a Marlin .45-70. Turning the .30-30 cartridge backwards, the .30-30 will easily slide about halfway into the .45-70's chamber. Going the other way, only the rather weak extractor holds it in place, yet it fires easily:



15 firings of 7mm RM belted mag cases without a case-head separation is as long as I want to go . I won't take .30-06 brass any further.

Phobias against belts is silly.


..people fail to remember that belted hunting cartridges for big game were not invented for the convenience of handloaders.They were invented for headspace and to provide a solid stop for the cartridge,to withstand the heavy blow of a firing pin for reliable ignition under field conditions,where a rifle might be afield for months at a time.

A little slop in the forward area of the chamber was not a bad thing,as it meant a cartridge might chamber and go bang even if the chamber got a little dirty from so much use afield and exposure to elements.Uber tight tolerances might not be your friend under some BG hunting conditions; but slick, reliable function and ignition always is.

Concerns about brass life was likely not considered,as it is among rifle nuts and target shooters.But much of this is lost on us, as we are largely a nation of target shooters and deer hunters,neither of which is terribly demanding for the most part,unlike the folks who gave us belts to begin with and built rifles for people who dealt, on a daily basis, with the largest and most dangerous animals on earth.

Even for depraved wildcat rifle loonies, belts are useful....ask anyone who fireforms 300HH brass to 300 Weatherby,or 375HH to 375 Weatherby....or makes 7mm Mashburn brass....

No foldyroll with the front end of the case,jamming bullets, false shoulders for forming....blah blah...just chamber.....and shoot.

Long live belted magnum brass and to naysayers I say...phooey.

With mr 99 you just have to consider the source...........

+1 . Good post Bob

YEP! I've wasted my last breath 'discussing' belts with 99. He's been told MANY Xs.

The 300 WM was the first belted case I ever worked with and YES I had a few incipient separations TILL I read from a GW to size the belted cases JUST LIKE you size 270,308, or any other unbelted case.

In the years since, I fire belted cases till I'm ready to discard, usually after 8-10 firings.

SU35,

Oh boy, the 'designed for short mags' powder deal! Yes, Ramshot Hunter and RL-17 work well. But if you look at all the recent data, the .300 Winchester still beats the .300 WSM by around 100 fps.

My favorite powder for 180-200 grain bullets in the .300 Winchester these days is Ramshot Magnum. Excellent accuracy and top velocities (@3200 wiyh 180's and 3000 with 200's), which can't be approached with the .300 WSM.

bsa, one other thing I forgot to mention about belted brass....pretty much all of it comes outta the box with lots of space for powder,ie, generous powder capacity.

Mule Deer



You must be loading pretty aggressive with RS Magnum.

The published (older) data I have shows a max load for the 200 Nosler Partition at 81.7 grains for 2,864 with a pressure of 63,288 psi.

It also shows the 180 Hornaday BTSP at 86 grains for 3,020 at 61,158 psi

Showing the linear method from RS data RS Magnum for the 200 Partition shows.

77,0......79.0....81.7.....
2,721.....2,789...2,864....
57,778....59,098..63,288...

For Mule Deer to get 3,000 fps with a 200 he would have to be about 68,000 psi using 86.1 grains (+4.47 grains for 30.4 fps per grain, for 1,172 psi per grain) Give or take a chamber and COAL.

QL shows 83.0 grains for 3,010 at 64,597 psi. FWIW




They do indeed work don't they, just as designed.

Shooting the 300 WSM and the 180 Hornaday BTSP (same bullet as above in the 300 Win)

When using RS Hunter data, I get
70.5 grains 3,008 fps at 61, 620 psi.

This shows a difference between the two cartridges at
15.5 grains less for the 300 WSM (differ powder of course)

86.0 in the 300 Win Mag vs 70.5 grains in the 300 WSM

3,020 fps for the 300 Win
3,008 fps for the 300 WSM

61,158 psi for the 300 Win
61,620 psi for the 300 WSM

I'll bet, if I load the 300 WSM to Mule Deer's pressures I'll get the same results in my 300 WSM as he is getting with his 300 Win mag or very, very close, within 30 to 50 fps.

For a field advantage of zip when using the 300 Win mag.

In the end the rational arguments for the WM vs the WSM pretty much come down to these:

1. Cost and availability of factory ammo and/or components.
2. Value of the extra velocity, if any, one cartridge can provide over the other.
3. The features of individual rifles being considered (factory or custom).
4. Personal goals and preferences.

A note about personal goals and preferences. Making a decision based on personal goals and preferences is perfectly rational, even if those goals and preferences are based on subjective opinions and desires rather than rational arguments and/or quantitative facts. (I.e. a person likes the look and feel of one cartridge better than the other, has a general disdain for belts, just wants to get something different than what his buddy has, etc.).

As a hunting cartridge, what one can do the other can do in all but the most extreme situations. Differences in individual rifles will easily overshadow any differences in the �inherent accuracy� of one cartridge over the other. Assuming a 100fps or even 200fps advantage for one over the other, differences on game will be virtually undetectable at ranges well beyond where most game is taken.

All other factors being equal, the cartridge makes little difference. When it came time for me to choose, the choice of a .300WM was purely opportunistic, based on the rifle and price. To my advantage, most folks didn�t care for the rifle, a �boat paddle� Ruger, which is why it was a closeout special at Sportsman�s Warehouse. Had the same rifle been chambered for a .300WSM I would have bought it just as quickly. I�ve only hunted elk with the .300WM twice and both times the results were the same - quick, clean one-shot kills.

From 2012:

From 2012 too 300 Winchester belted mag 150 E Tip

Other than velocity w/bullets over 180 gr, they're a horse a piece in every department. Plenty of brass, factory ammo, factory rifles to pick from for both. Unless you plan on using 200-220 gr bullets all the time, let the rifle you like best decide what you get.

SU35--

First off, you stated you had OLDER stats.

Try some NEW ones. This from NOSLER #7.

180 NP

IMR 4350 >>3130 FPS
----------------------Compare YOUR stats at 3008 & 3020
IMR 4831 >>3160 FPS

Nosler 7 does not list Ramshot Magnum.


QL list APPROXIMATIONS not pressure testing!

I personally have been using IMR 4350 @ 3120fps for yrs.

You can draw your own conclusions.

SU35,

The current Ramshot data (which you can view on their website)contains these loads for the .300 Winchester Magnum:

180 Sierra GK/ 86.5 Magnum/ 3193 fps/ 63,770 psi
200 Nosler Partition/ 84.4 Magnum/ 3011 fps/ 63,189

Believe me, I've burned a bunch of Hunter, RL-17 and other designer powders in the .300 WSM (among several short magnums). None have come close to the .300 Winchester with the right powder.

Right now I'm working on an article about the short mags, and went through all the latest data for the .300 WSM. The fastest listed velocity for 180's from ANY source was 3082 from Alliant. The second was 3057 from Nosler, and all the rest hovered around 3000.

I bought my .300 WM M70 Classic Stainless just before the WSM and RUM came out and have watched with great interest how each has progressed.
And at this point I have absolutely no desire to switch to either one.

Tough to top the 300 Winchester mag.

Quickload is giving far too many armchair QBs some odd sense of credibility.Wanna be cool? Get setup for Piezo and come back with some data.
The 300 Win. Mag has more capacity, fast or slow long or short bullets. Doesn't matter.
I like and have owned both, the .300 Long Winchester has the tip of the hat as it can do everything the WSM can do, but faster when both are loaded to the same pressure.

Nowadays I do prefer the .300 Winchester Magnum.

I have loaded for and shot .300RUM, .300 Bee, .300Win., ,300H&H and .308Norma, by far my favourite and second only to the truly outstanding .308Win. as my favourite .308" diameter round.

I have never even fired a .300WSM and doubt that I ever shall, I think that the "Wizzums" are 99% marketing and not actually ANY better than literally scores of well-established cartridges.

As to "short" actions, bleh, I have two VERY "custom" U/L short actioned rifles, a .308Win and a 7-08 and for the thousands of $$$$ these cost me, built by BC's top gunmakers, my old HVA custom .280 Rem, Krieger/Bansner/Timney/ is MAYBE 8 oz, heavier and actually gives more performance as the .300Win does over the .300 Wizzum.

So, for ME, I just do not see ANY reason to go with it over the popular .300Winny and with a 200-NP, my favourite 300 maggie bullet, the Wizzum ain't the hoss that the Winny is and never can be.

YMMV, I actually prefer .338s, anyway!

Couldn't have said that any better. Good post..

Dewey,

One of the interesting things about all this is the .300 WSM has exactly the same poowder capacity as the .300 H&H--and hence is capable of exactly the same ballistics. It took so-called civilization 80 years to shorten the .300 H&H enough to fit in an action about 1/2" shorter.

I like the 'so-called' civilization..... there is nothing civilized about shooting a .300 Mag without an H&H in its name....

Savage 99, you're implying you cut that case in half yourself..

Why is that very same picture on this website? Larrywillis.com

Go to Larrywillis .com and look under headspace.

Typical internet fantasy....

Ohhh, snap. That guy has a perma-douche stamped on his forehead now.
Or he is Larry Willis.

Grab two cats of equil size ducttape thear tails together and a close line in there while your at it. Crap! The OP Was how to siffer this from that when thear are so few. Parden me but I must step out at this point.grin

Veri wel sed

Agreed:

According to Denton (Bramwell) & Mule Deer - the Pressure Trace system is for all practical purposes equal AND much cheaper than Piezo equipment.

It doesn't break the bank to use P T.

Ok, now I have to look into Pressure Trace. Dang it.

Greater powder capacity = higher velocity potential. That's clearly a fact.

But, just because the 300 WM can hold more powder than the 300 WSM, does that necessarily make it the better round? The 300 WSM, in turn, holds more powder than the 30-06. Does that then automatically make it "better" than the '06?

Comparisons like these seem somewhat meaningless to me. Both the 300 WM and the 300 WSM are excellent rounds, IMO (as is the 30-06). We're fortunate to have these kinds of choices from which to pick.

As others have said, choose either one of them in the platform that best suits you and never look back.

I have had both, love the regular 300 Win Mag, but right now, I have a 300WSM which is probably about 95% of the longer 300 Win Mag. I run mine is a little Featherweight and like the rifle package more than I care about the difference. Can't beat the extra powder capacity of the 300 Win Mag. The only part I see the WSM making up any headroom is Winchesters box mag allows you to seat the longer bullets out to around 3.1" in there mags, which nets quite alot of powder space, while alot of the Win Mag's are restricted to about 3.4" or so. Not all, but my old Ruger didn't have a whole lotta space to play with when working with 200's. Not a huge game changer, but it lets the WSM sneak up on the 300 Win Mag a little, at least in my case.

Has Savage 99 come back and explained the "hi-jacked" photo yet?

Exactly! There is nothing magical or sinister about either - pick one that fits your needs and don't look back. (If I could just heed my own advice I'd be waaayyyy ahead!! haha)

you know his MO, we won't see him on this thread again, and if we do, he will completely ignore all the FACTS already presented.

I don't have a ton of experience reloading but I've had good luck with three Win Mags.

I'm getting 2950 fps with the 200gr NAB from my new 300 Win Mag using 83.0 gr of Ramshot Magnum. Rifle is a Salvage 116 FHSS, 24" barrel.

The Savage replaced my Tikka in 300 Win that got 2925 fps using 81.5gr of the same powder, 24" barrel. The Tikka shot under 1-moa out to 400+ yards, 3-shot groups.

The Savage is new, so I've only had two range sessions with it. Worked up the load at 100 yards on Saturday. On Sunday I tested it at 200 yards. Got 3-shots under 1.6" at 200 yards. Good enough for now. I hope it does as well as the Tikka at 500 yards. We'll see on Monday, but my new 375 Ruger and 270 BAR are giving me fits so the 300 might get neglected.

I've only had one 300 WSM, a Tikka. I didn't reload when I had it, but it shot lights-out with inexpensive 180gr Federal and premium 180gr Remington ammo. IIRC, it was getting 2900 fps for those 180gr factory loads.

Almost forgot...

Ramshot recommends 75.2 - 83.5gr of Magnum powder for the 300 Win Mag using the 200gr Nosler Accubond. Got this from the ballistician.

I don't think this was mentioned, but for Salvage fans the WSM only holds 2 rounds vs 3 for the 300 Win. May not matter to some people, but thought I'd mention it.

Jason