|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,224 Likes: 25
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,224 Likes: 25 |
That's what I thought as well. Some guys will argue, but I've seen it first hand.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,473
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,473 |
The same can not be said for the short/fats. Did you have issues with feeding? It can be said to the five I've owned. Especially if it is a PF rifle. Some guys will argue, but I've seen it first hand. Was it the rifle or was it due to cartridge design?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I currently get 3,250 with 168's using Superformance powder.
I get 3200 easily with IMR 4350/ wonder what I could get w/Superformance in the WM?
I also have no short commings using heavier 200's and 220's in the WSM.
I am skeptical about that. Have you tried, or can you crowd 3000fps w/200 gr. in the wsm?
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
The same can not be said for the short/fats. Did you have issues with feeding? It can be said to the five I've owned. Especially if it is a PF rifle. Some guys will argue, but I've seen it first hand. Was it the rifle or was it due to cartridge design? Yes, I did. Even when I got the issues sorted out it still wouldn't feed as smoothly as a 300 win mag would.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,699
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,699 |
That's what I thought as well. Some guys will argue, but I've seen it first hand. I've owned 10 different Win M70's in WSM (4 270s, 3 7mm's and 3 300's), still own 7 - one had to have the extractor adjusted slightly to feed smooth consistently. None of the others had/have had any issues whatsoever feeding perfectly fine. I've heard other rifles (M700 for instance) having issues, but my experience with M70's is great.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,473
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,473 |
I get 3200 easily with IMR 4350/ wonder what I could get w/Superformance in the WM? I doubt SuperF powder would work in the win mag. I am skeptical about that. Have you tried, or can you crowd 3000fps w/200 gr. in the wsm?
This was my last load I just shot with a 190. 64.6 grains of 17 behind a 190 VLD win mag primer for over 3,000 mv. I have shot 200 NP's but after having just moved I need to find my notes on that load. No problem loading and feeding it though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 18
New Member
|
|
New Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 18 |
If you're looking for a great deal, I recently bought a Tikka T3 chambered in a 300 WSM. I love it! It is the most accurate factory barrel I have ever come across. A lot of guys complain about short mags not feeding well, but I haven't had any trouble with mine, and the action is VERY, VERY smooth. I shoot 180 gr accubonds with 67 gr of rl19. Muzzle velocity 3010. The design of the short mag achieves the same velocity with less powder. As soon as I can find some on the shelves I'm going to try rl17. It's a faster burning powder and specifically designed for short mags. If you compare factory ammo, muzzle velocity in the federal ammo is the EXACT same. Winchester ammo claims the WSM to be slightly faster.
Reason I chose WSM... Shorter barrel, lighter weight, same velocity, awesome accuracy! Definitely look at the Tikka. I'm very happy with mine, and I got the synthetic/stainless model for $659 at Sportsmans Wearhouse.
There's something about the outside of a horse, that's good for the inside of a man... Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
If you want a 300 magnum, then go with the original Winchester version. It's the better hunting mouse trap.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,202 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,202 Likes: 24 |
SU35,
Your point about newer powders for the .300 WSM would be valid, except newer powders have also helped the .300 Winchester. In my Heym Magpro will get 3200 fps from a 180, and in most .300 Winchesters 3250 is easy even with old-timey powders with 165-168 grain bullets.
Yes, there are quite a few lighter factory rifles chambered in .300 WSM. But they're light not because of any vast difference in short or long actions (there's at MOST a 4-ounce difference) but because the rifles are made lighter. My first .300 Winchester Magnum was a NULA that weighed 7 pounds scoped, and it was extremely accurate, great to carry, and not at all disturbing to shoot, even with the 200-grain handloads I used.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,224 Likes: 25
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,224 Likes: 25 |
That's what I thought as well. Some guys will argue, but I've seen it first hand. I've owned 10 different Win M70's in WSM (4 270s, 3 7mm's and 3 300's), still own 7 - one had to have the extractor adjusted slightly to feed smooth consistently. None of the others had/have had any issues whatsoever feeding perfectly fine. I've heard other rifles (M700 for instance) having issues, but my experience with M70's is great. My experience with model 70's has been great as well. The one I was speaking of was a ruger m77 that I was wanting to buy (at a local gunshow). It's been a few years back but I remember it had problems, needless to say I didn't buy the rifle...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,828
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,828 |
I got a 300WSM its a M-70 I had it since I bought it in 2000, once I got the crooked chamber taken care of, I zeroed it it, and had not shot it since, I thought at the time it would be my only go to rifle, I just never warmed up to it. I shoot a 7mm Remington Mag these days. If you must, I think you should just buy what ever you want and leave it at that. Ask yourself how much Elk hunting you really plan on doing, then ask yourself do I really need all the recoil and muzzle blast for MN white tails at the ranges I generally shoot? My guess a 270 would serve you well. Heck I would even suggest a 7mm RM and call it good.
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."
Anton Chekhov
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807 |
![[Linked Image]](http://www.larrywillis.com/headspace-2.jpg) [/quote] "If you size the brass right, you won't get that with a .300WM either." Your wrong about that. The should moves forward with new brass on the first firing with a belted magnum. That stretches the weak expansion web.
All guns should be locked up when not in use!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353 |
"If you size the brass right, you won't get that with a .300WM either." Your wrong about that. The should moves forward with new brass on the first firing with a belted magnum. That stretches the weak expansion web. [/quote] And it doesn't with a non-belted??????.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 18
New Member
|
|
New Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 18 |
I've heard a few people say... If you can get that kind of velocity with RL17 in a WSM imagine what it would do in a win mag. Keep in mind. Powders like RL17 that produce amazing muzzle velocity in short mags are specifically designed for short mags. They are faster burning powders. For the 300 win you want to go with a slower burning powder like RL22. If you try a fast burning powder such as imr4350 or RL17 in a long action magnum rifle, you might not be happy with the results. Read the Allient manual, it will tell you which powders are recommended to achieve the best performance in your rifle.
Back to the original question, they are both GREAT hunting rifles. There were just enough benefits in the short mag for myself that I decided to go that route.
I tried to post a picture of a 3 shot group from my Tikka, but the file was too big to download... But I was shooting federal factory vital shok ammo, 180 gr accubond, and had a 3 shot group that could be covered with a dime. Very impressive accuracy!!
There's something about the outside of a horse, that's good for the inside of a man... Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,817 |
I am considering purchasing either a 300 WM or a 300 WSM. Which caliber offers the better accuracy? I reload for all of my rifles so factory ammo doesn't matter. I am a whitetail... mule deer or elk hunter. I will be purchasing a mid to lower priced rifle. .............Owned and reloaded a 300 WM Wby Vanguard for over 30 years. Sold it in `07 and now have a 300 WSM. For my 30 caliber, I changed the format to a compact rifle. For NA hunting use, there is no advantage that one will have over the other when using bullet weights up to and including 200 gr. Accuracy will depend more on what any individual rifle prefers in components and seating depths. My suggestion to you is to throw out which cartridge and go after the rifle you prefer for better overall looks, weight, balance, feel, and the rifle that will better suit your hunting terrain, carrying and handling situations. The cartridge will then follow. One quick question, do you prefer wood or metal for a coffin? ............Well I dunno great Waaaa-poops. Haven`t thought about it. But I see that your childish mind has. But you are more than welcome to visit here and personally design one for me though  ...Hey! Maybe you`d like to make the prank really come true. For many, you can be the big forum hero by proxy, as I`m sure you`d love to really contribute to my "true" demise. Why hell, "anyone" can easily kick my butt! ....Even an older and less mature guy such as yourself. One foot in the coffin you design for me and the other on the banana peel... ......Oh I`m sure you can handle it ok poops.....
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
"If you size the brass right, you won't get that with a .300WM either." Your wrong about that. The should moves forward with new brass on the first firing with a belted magnum. That stretches the weak expansion web. If you get stretching and incipient case head separations, as shown in the photo, with new brass on the first firing, something is seriously wrong either with the brass (too short) or the chamber (too long). After the first firing neck sizing will pretty much eliminate the case stretching as well. There isn�t a nickel�s worth of difference between the 7mm RM and .300WM case designs and I have 7mm RM brass that I�ve tossed after 15 firings as a matter of policy rather than because of case stretching and incipient case head separation. I have yet to toss any .300WM brass and I check each case with a feeler gage every time I reload them.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 05/14/13.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
CH is right per usual....beltless cases have web areas, too....and if you repeatedly fire them and then set shoulders back in resizing, they will pull apart just like belted cases.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
I've heard a few people say... If you can get that kind of velocity with RL17 in a WSM imagine what it would do in a win mag. Keep in mind. Powders like RL17 that produce amazing muzzle velocity in short mags are specifically designed for short mags. They are faster burning powders. For the 300 win you want to go with a slower burning powder like RL22. If you try a fast burning powder such as imr4350 or RL17 in a long action magnum rifle, you might not be happy with the results. Read the Allient manual, it will tell you which powders are recommended to achieve the best performance in your rifle.
Back to the original question, they are both GREAT hunting rifles. There were just enough benefits in the short mag for myself that I decided to go that route.
I tried to post a picture of a 3 shot group from my Tikka, but the file was too big to download... But I was shooting federal factory vital shok ammo, 180 gr accubond, and had a 3 shot group that could be covered with a dime. Very impressive accuracy!! Here's a Ruger .300WM target. First shot was from a clean/oiled bore: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/8115300Win_180TSX-1.jpg) While this rifle won't be setting any 1000 yard records, I took it and a Ruger .30-06 to the range for a final check before elk/deer season in 2011. After a quick scope check at 100 yards I moved to the long range where I fired a total of 5 shots at clay pigeons on the 600 yard berm, breaking a pigeon with each rifle, 2 shots with one, 3 with the other. (Don't recall which was which.) Last year I took my longest shot on big game ever with the .300WM and was rewarded with a one shot kill at 400 yards. (Yeah, I know that isn't very far for a .300WM or WSM or even a .30-06.) Having stupidly left my range finder at home, however, I was might glad to have the .300 in my hands. A WSM would have worked just as well. The cow is down inside the circle. The range of 400 yards was determined by GPS readings taken at the time and Google Earth when I got home. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_1509-22.JPG)
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 629
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 629 |
If you want a 300 magnum, then go with the original Winchester version. It's the better hunting mouse trap. +1 Yup, 300 H&H!
|
|
|
|
|
559 members (219DW, 10gaugemag, 06hunter59, 1minute, 10Glocks, 67 invisible),
2,344
guests, and
1,228
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,686
Posts18,513,509
Members74,010
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
