Thinking of putting one of those new aimpoint hunter sights on a rifle I will be getting this year... not immediately.. i'm in new york.. but I do plan on traveling to alaska at some point and also northwestern canada to hunt a brown bear and maybe one day a kodiak... it's been a dream since I was a kid.

I like these new aimpoint hunter sights because they are faster then a scope.. and it has a 2 moa dot so you can probably shoot comfortably out to 200 yards if your really had to.. but for 100-150 yards and under it's perfect.. super fast.

My question is... would you trust your life to one of them? or would you just stick with iron sights

If it's faster than a scope you need to practice more with the scope.

Have mounted an Aimpoint Micro H1 on a Remington 750, then on my Marlin 1895.

Failed twice to switch on in sub - zero temps, leaving me with useless rifle...

I know, not supposed to happen; tested in combat... but that does not mean a lot in AK.

Dependability is king - in all gear. Only bring tested stuff.

In optics - 1,5-6x42 is a good versatile for bear hunting.

Carl

JIC - I was using the 'fast reply' button.

Agreed, especially with the scope cranked down to 1-1.5x...which it should be before the wet work starts....

CMG, what do you mean by "failed to switch on?"

I own 4 aimpoints on assault rifles, 3 T1s and one Comp M4, and one of the cool things about aimpoints is that you can leave them on at all times because battery life is measured in years. If you want to be safe, you can change the batteries annually, but they are meant to be always on and ready to go. The joke at the carbine classes I have taken was to shout "turn off your eotechs" at every break because their battery life stunk and it wasn't uncommon for them to die when you needed them.

I'm sure they sometimes fail, but so do scopes. Aimpoints are the gold standard for red dot reliability and toughness, so although I haven't tried one on a hunting rifle, I wouldn't be afraid to try. I think the idea is valid, especially if you could get it to co-witness with iron sights for backup.

Cope -

simply turning the power dial to setting 6 or 7 failed to produce a red dot in those two occasions.

Both were follow ups on wild boar in subzero temps (�C). The rifle was in the case in the car with the sight off. On the start of the searches I switched in on with no results.

On both occasions - the sight functioned fine after being warmed up in side the house later - but for the time being I was w/o a rifle, having to resort to back ups - a .44 Anaconda in one occasion and a opensighted 8x57 of a friend in the other. Both searched were successfull - pigs were still alive and got bayed by my dog.

Not what I would want my hunter to have in AK going after brown bear.

I'm sure band camp and Alaska are equally as tough on [bleep]. Good luck with that.

or if I can't get it to co-witness I can atleast get the lower 1/3rd so I don't have to break off the sight if it doesn't work at a bad time

I think the old gunfighter's axiom of "speed is fine but accuracy is final" is appropriate here. If facing charging bears was the norm then maybe (?) an electronic sight would be better. But it is not. The usual scenerio is that you need to place a bullet correctly at some distance, often through brush where a bit of power helps. For those circumstances I prefer a scope.

I agree with you there, but what about a situation where a bear walks buy close up 50 yards or less and your zoom is left on 4 power or even 2 power... it's not gonna be as quick or accurate as a dot.

I don't believe in shotting any animal past 150 or 200 yards, until their is better technology in 10 or 20 years and we have laser like the predators. Thats just my personal thing which I don't wanna get it into, but I think the aimpoint would be better then a scope cause I can throw it up quickly and the dot is there or even if i'm in an awkward position I don't have to find that "sweet spot" like with a scope.

No offence intended -

Steelhead had it right, a few posts above.

If it is so problematic for you to keep your scope dialed down or find the "sweet spot", you need to practice basic rifle skills - irrespective of sighting eq.

And - 458 Win chiming in on brown bear hunting should give you a moments pause to consider what he said. Just saying.

Unless you are dead set - in that case, why ask for advice on two seperate forums?

If I've traveled 2,500 miles and do not have a backup unit in hand, I will not count on a $1.00 battery to complete my hunt.

I put it in 2 seperate forums because I want an opinion from people who hunt in alaska and people who hunt in africa... both very different climate and animals and terrain. Makes sense to split them up.

No Offense- but you seem a little mad that I put it in seperate forums via your constant remind and criticizing of me doing so

I am pretty set on the aimpoint but I wanted an honest opinion... from an unbiased source... I know there are scope fanatics and also electronic sight fanatics I want opinions from both and use my common sense to judge whats best.

I don't see how any 800 dollar electronic sight will fail for no reason.. you guys make it seems like its a 5 dollar alarm clock that you got from a dollar store that will malfunction if you press the buttons too hard. This is an 800 dollar piece of equipment... I don't think it will fail just from a plain ride or a few accidental bumps along the way. It's just as tough as your leupold, swarovski or any other high end scope... if not TOUGHER.

You wanted an honest opinion, and you got one. Now you are arguing with it.

See cmg's first post in this thread about an Aimpoint failing in the field.... twice... under pretty mild conditions. Is that really worth the .02 seconds you think you can save over using a good low power scope?

More crap to go wrong at just the wrong time. Put a 1.5-5 Vari-X III Leupold on it & be done. In addition, use QR mounts and make sure you have a set of open sights to fall back on. What do I know tho? I've only hunted Ak. for about 40+ years.
Bear in Fairbanks

"I don't see how any 800 dollar electronic sight will fail for no reason.. you guys make it seems like its a 5 dollar alarm clock that you got from a dollar store that will malfunction if you press the buttons too hard. This is an 800 dollar piece of equipment... I don't think it will fail just from a plain ride or a few accidental bumps along the way. It's just as tough as your Leupold, swarovski or any other high end scope... if not TOUGHER."

Good luck with that mindset. Sounds like you had your mind made up, before asking the question.

Jeff

Do you now or have you ever had a penis ATTACHED to your body? You sound like a chick, as you have ALL the answers so why the [bleep] did you ask the question.

Good luck Treadwell.

Depends if you can use a scoped rifle properly and if said scoped rifle fits: look at the target, mount the rifle and the crosshairs should be more or less on...

And x4 at 50 yards is not an issue, if you know what your doing...

Prezactly.

Course, its not as quick as trying to warm the battery in your Aimpoint....

As to your common sense - that does seem to be ailing - looking at the way you disregard the informed opinions you have been given upon asking.

Note:

Bold text is mine.

I've guided hundreds of hunters and lost track of how many insisted on keeping their scopes turned up to the highest power. Even though I tell each of them to keep them turned down to the lowest power. If you bump into DG at close range there is no time to turn the power down but if it is far enough that you need to turn the power up you usually have plenty of time.
Anybody who might "accidently" be carrying his scope at a higher power will probably have failed to turn his red dot on when he needs it or have left it on and the battery will be dead.

I hear you... well i always like to think of the worst case scenario... and if I were hunting dangerous game or hunting alone in an area where there are dangerous game and I didn't have 10 guides lol backing me up... I would prefer either straight iron sights or a high quality dot sight like aimpoints...

The soldiers in iraq and afghanistan trusted their lives to them.. and the weather and abuse is mroe severe then most any western hunter will endure

if they are so terrible then why would the U.S. army trust the live sof THOUSANDS of soldiers to them... in WORSE WEATHER CONDITIONS and more ABUSE than any western hunter on a casual hunting excursion. Hell evena PH or guide in alaskan will get less abuse then a platoon somewhere in the mountains of aghanistan on a several month tour

Better question is if they are so wonderful WHY AGAIN ARE YOU ASKING about their use then arguing with the comments?

You do know that hunting brown bear in Alaska is a bit different then 20 guys entering a 2 room house in Iraq with air and mortar support, right?

I'd just go with what Phil said and call it good. Of course, he is only speaking from experience, not something that he's conjured in his head or read on the internet - I certainly wouldn't put much stake in what he's got to say on the matter.

"Polska"...sorta says it all, eh?

You just might be surprised at how much abuse an alaskan guide will get during an average outing...

OTOH - equipment makers are regularly surprised at how much abuse some AK guys and guides can dish out.

It's funny how one can go to the doctor and he'll send you on your way with a prescription, etc. and nary an argument. You assume he knows his biz because, well, that's what he does. Toss in an experienced guide that does his thing for a living, and, well, the "patient" knows better.

A rather trivial comparison? Yeah, maybe. But listening to BOTH can help you live a lot longer.

Having been a line grunt in Vietnam ( which I'm sure is different from Afghanistan) I am aware of how tough grunts are on weapons. I am also aware that for the most part they are using equipment procured from low bidders. The Leatherwood/ Redfield scopes we used on our XM-21 sniper rifles were POS , even thought they were current state-of-the-art.

Having also known a lot of Alaskan guides I will say that they are at leat equally hard on equipment as the average soldier and probably more so as most never ( and I'm not kidding) clean their rifles and half of those who do simply spray the entire rifle - stock and all - with a heavy dose of WD-40 at the end of the year and call it good.

You say that like it's a bad thing!

This entire thread reminds me of a public relations guy I used to know in the firearms industry. Because of my job I had to be around him now and then at social functions, and invariably he would sit near me. Then he would ask me a question, prefaced by several sentences extolling my experience.

When I answered him, my answer was almost invariably NOT the one he wanted to hear. This was because he knew just enough about firearms and hunting to be dangerous. As an example, he once made a speech about how his .338 wildcat was the greatest big game round ever, because it had killed with one shot three African plains game animals (about 10% of his lifetime hunting experience). He went on to brag about how it got .338 Winchester Magnum veliocities with a case that had at least 20% less powder capacity.

Then he asked me why the primers fell out of his cases when he opened the bolt. When I told him he was loading his wildcat to dangerous pressures, he started to argue with me.

Eventually he disappeared from the industry, I assume because he was killed by some other gun writer.

This thread has got to be a setup by a troll to get an argument going, right? And a number of us "bit".

Bear in Fairbanks

Nope...I think he's about 17 and reads lots of magazines and watches lots of hunting TV shows... .

Dennis

The ultimate in overpenetration!

He do speaketh like a kielbasa.

6X at 40 yards works OK too. 1.5 is better. Fixed is more fool proof than variable. I'm pretty sure.

I should buy one.

Wouldn't be that hard to mount a bayonet for DG at ranges a low power scope setting won't work......

Without looking at all post that should be obvious here, I would have to ask how electronic sights relate to KISS? Further, I would have to say that it is the NBTB which affects speed (and accuracy) more than anything. Personally, I can't see why I'd want more than 2.5X on a bear gun anyway, assuming I'm choosing opticals at all.

I started this thread simply because I wanted to hear the other side of the argument... why people are against dot sights and what their reasoning is. I'm allowed to disagree though am I not? I am being persecuted, ridiculed and made assumptions about simply because of my disagreement with the use of a scope versus and red dot sight. And even made fun of for being Polish... which I am proud of. Pope John Paull II was Polish.. 5 time world's strongest man Mariusz Pudzianowski is Polish, Nicolaus Copernicus was Polish, Boxing LIght Heavyweight champion with multiple titles Tomasz Adamek is Polish... so if we were really so stupid why would we be so successful. It seems to me that americans are the ones who's country is falling apart.

just notified the moderator bub. keep it up.

notified

actually i'm 25 and probably more educated and more experienced in life than you

Apparently not.

Don't forget to renew your F&S subscription. Be sure to ask for the ignoramus discount.

Do y'all really need to know anymore???

In this assumption, you most certainly have erred.

Good luck with that.

Moderator asks if you can fill in the appropriate form:

Actually people with field experience looked at your questions and rebuffing of good advice, and concluded that you are young and inexperienced. You've since confirmed their assumptions. You could learn alot if you would just listen to people that have experience in the field, vs. those in field and stream trying to sell you equipment.

If you had both field experience in tough conditions, and also had taken a decent amount of game you'd come to two conclusions that rule out your choice of an aimpoint scope. The first conclusion is that the more complex something is, the more likely it is going to fail in the field, and if some is battery powered, the battery will die at the worst possible time. The only reason people have shifted from iron sights to telescopic sights (given that glass is still more fragile than iron) is that a good scope assists in accurately placing your shots.

And that is issue number two, you do not compromise your ability to accurately place the critical first shot by choosing something that might be a milisecond faster on up close shots. Make the first shot count, and you don't have to worry about the followup charging shot. Even the guides who are the ones that end up making the followup shots as a rule don't go to electronic sights, and for good reason.

Oh, I forgot the final conclusion. People that are overly concerned with followup shots and bear attacks tend to be jumpy and don't shoot well in the field. Most ofthen they muff up the first shots, where the bear is too far away to even do them any harm.

You need to become a proficient shot in the field, and underpressure. No amount of magic whizzbang gear will give you those skills. I'd trust my life to the guy with a blue worn -06 with a steel tubed weaver 4x that has spent decades using his rifle effectively, to the tyro with a new wizzbang charge stopper 500 that is fiddling with his gadgets.

African guides don't use electronic sights I think more for liability in case of a law suit in case it failed... iron sights are something that can never fail if backing someone up so no chance of a mistake and watching a client get eaten in front of you or getting sued.

So the soldiers in IRaq and Afhganistan who used aimpoints had all their scopes fail? They were hunting in tougher conditions. I some how find it hard to believe. These aimpoints have a tougher outter shell and are more shock resistent then any scope on the market. It's not what the magazines say it's what i've found from researching and talking to people and learning about them.

\

Yea yea your a pussy, you hide behind a computer and your friends who are moderators... if i say anything wrong you'll have me kicked off. So who's the real pussy here? I'm not gonna waste calories arguing with someone on a computer. But if you want to ever meet up and settle this face to face, we can certainly do so.

Hiding behind the moderator and a computer? What a coward you are.. you wanna talk trash lets meet up and see how tough you are.

Well remember whent he doctors were prescribing ephedra and codiene and people got addicted to the codiene.. which by the way, still happens today. Also vicadin, perceset, and oxycontin... very highly abused. So doctor's are not always right

I trust Christ and my gut, not some doctor or person with a big head on a message board

Your not serious are you? If you are... you need your head checked.

Good grief Polska, you're breaking my heart here...Do Poles have a sense of humour? Are they all thin skinned as you???

For goodness sake, grow a set, your not the only "racial minority" on here!

Get your self a reputation as a "whiner" on here, and you might as well paint a target on yourself, life is going to be tough for you...

And for your information, you have to work damn hard to be banned on here...At times people give each other sh1t, but its the Internet, so who really gives a crap?

You need to read that line you just typed again slowly and then apply it to yourself. You've got one of the most experienced bear guides in Alaska (who also happens to have served time in combat as a grunt and a sniper) telling you to forget the aimpoint. You've got numerous other Alaskan's telling you the same thing. You ignore all their advice and then start challenging people to fight. Yeah, somebody needs to have their head checked alright.

Serenity now.

Idon't have to agree with every single post... I wanted to see what the scope people said and I wanted to see why they dont' like dot sights. I don't have to just blindly follow and agree what every person on an internet chat board tells me... I use my own intelligence and common sense to evaluate someone's point of view and determine if it makes sense or not. It's called freedom. And i'm not arguing with anyone, i'm simply disagreeing and offering my opinion.. it's funny how someone is automatically "arguing" simply for disagreeing and offering another opinion... it's kind of hippocritical don't you think? You accuse someone of arguing, being stubborn, and being arrogant, yet you are acting the same way yourself.

And to all those who want to make fun of me for being Polish, your all cowards that have nothing better to do than sit on a message board and make fun of people.. in real life, I would snap your neck.

He's gone from fighting to killing in a matter of posts. You can't buy entertainment like this.

Looks like the sensible answer, doesn't it?

Can't help wondering if Lee24 doesn't have kin in Poland?

I liked it better when he was crying like a little girl.
Now I'm skeered.

Hunting bears in Alaska is not the same as shooting rag heads in the sandbox.

If the sighting systems in use over there is the best, one would think their rifles are also the best choice. What I want to know is why aren't planning on using an M4 for your bear rifle, it will allow the fastest possible follow up shots?

I just notified your mom. Naner, naner, naner.....

Wow...a budding troll...and I missed out.....

All i know is God will punish you all, therefore I don't need to get angry. the Lord will deal with all of you.

Ah, yes. The Big Moderator In The Sky watches over even the smallest troll on the Internet....

[bleep] me Jesus.

this thread was good for a laugh...

This is GREAT stuff...you need to stick around and spread more wisdom...

Not very nice. Ingwe is going to spend an eternity being punished by the Lord and you think it's funny.

Prayers sent ingwe for your salvation.

i think Ingwe was doomed before this thread

i think the Swampy threads may have pushed him over the limit...

That was mean....



See ya there!

I think I heard the lightening strike, from here!

Jeff

I haven't laughed this hard in days!

I may get struck by lightning too. If I do, who do I sue?


Ed

No worries...just send prayers...and a coleman cooler...

This is an awesome thread. A true classic!


Travis

BTW, I called ahead; no 7x57's where we're headed.

WTF?

That leaves nothing for it but to bring our own...

Wonder if they make us check our ammo at the door??

Any particular poison I should put in said Coleman cooler?

Just out of curiousity, given your experience in Africa, does a PH REALLY use iron sights becuse he doesn't want to get sued?

If the PH gets gored/stomped/bit/clawed/etc... to the point of death, does he really CARE if he gets sued? Just askin...

Also while I'm askin', do ya think the Good Lord uses a scope or a red dot sight when he whacks someone with lightning? For Him, it is close range or long range? Does He use BUIS?
Am I getting myself in really deep poop by following this train of thought? Do you care?

Ed

In answer to your questions...

Keep it under 80 proof...flammables...you know....

No.

No.

Red Dot.....

No.

Yes.

and No.....

I had an aimpoint that I gotten because the dealer I bought my guns from at the time had one collecting dust. It was a 0 Power, that you could screw a lense on the back and make a 3x out of it. This was back in 80. I put it on a very brand new Remington 700 BDL in 7mm-08. Worked fine on the range and in the woods too. I also ha a Steel tube K-3 weaver in rings that would fit the bases. So if I ran into a problem, I didn't trust it, I would have a back up sight. The short of it I work fine, but battery life was short in my mind. After a couple of seasons, the Weaver stayed on that rifle. These days, some of the lighted scopes something to consider. I like the Trijicon sights the best. But If I was going to go to Alaska to hunt brown bear. In the wet cold spring, my rifle is going to wear either a fixed 4x or a 1.5 x 5 or a 1.75 to 6 for a sight. And Phil, I do what guides tell me to do, I keep such sights on the lowest power. Thou I don't use them much any more fixed power for me.

So just how does a 3X adaptor work on a 0 power scope? Seems a 0 would be either bright white light or an opaque lens cap...

That power thing gets to some...
art

Well, there certainly seems to be some truth to that statement and hopefully, that'll be rectified in 2 more years. I think the attitude of the guys on the board here is that you asked a question then started arguing with the answers that you were given buy guys on the board that have BTDT. Speaking for myself, I have absolutely no patience for that kinda crap. Gotta put up with it from my 30 yr. old stepson but not from some other nimrod.
I have 40+ years experience in the Alaskan hunting fields and experience tells me the best principle is KISS (keep it simple, stupid). The Alaskan wilderness is unforgiving and you can rapidly find yourself up to your ass in alligators if you're not careful and prepared.
What do I know though, go ahead & use that gizmo you're talking about - what do you care? You're gonna have to have a guide for your brown bear anyway so WHEN you wound him, your guide can go into the brush after him & you can just sit back & watch. If I were a brown bear guide, and you were going with me, you'd be using equipment I recommend or you would lose your deposit. End of story!!!
Bear in Fairbanks

Bear, You are starting to sound like Joe Want

Keeping the sights set low is something some can't get used to for some reason.

I just made a chip shot head shot the other morning... 252 yards... I looked in the scope, thought hmm... looks a bit far, double check distance... which I did real quick... ok not as far as I thought. Bang. Flop. Get up to go check.... find the scope is on 4x(4-14x)..... no wonder she looked a bit farther than I thought....

Point being... you can do anything with a lower powered scope, including the fact when I was looking for a doe, I jumped a jackrabbit, and I managed to unsling a 10 pound plus rifle, and follow the jack, having been able to hit him immediately at about 10 steps, though he was literally at my feet when he jumped. Knowledge of how to use the scope goes a LONG ways vs what some folks assume to be the facts.

Bottom line to this, you can use a scope just fine. Its not an electronic device. And thats advice from well seasoned hunters that was asked for. YMMV and you can do as you please. Some folks are convinced that as long as you love the bears they'll never harm you either.

First of all, I was not arguing. I was disagreeing. So when you disagree and debate with someone your automatically arguing with them? I still have a right to disagree in this country do I not, or will you sue me or press charges against me for that.

I hear you... well then you wouldn't get my business. I'd find someone else or go some where else, end of story. I don't want to put up with ego and pride... with some guide who thinks he's a badass and god.

All I said was that I wouldn't be afraid to use my aimpoint sight and as soon as I expressed a slight disagreement with other people, they immediately get upset or nasty. It's really bad behavior. I guess some people weren't raised the right way. I guess thats why they lurk around on message boards at 30 or 40 years old with nothing better to do then insult other people to make themselves feel good.

dude, you asked a question, got answers from some very seasoned experts on the subject, and you "disagree"?

Dude...
de�bate (d-bt)
v. de�bat�ed, de�bat�ing, de�bates
v.intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.


Some might consider it bad manners for an idiot to argue with a pro...

I hear you... well then you wouldn't get my business. I'd find someone else or go some where else, end of story. I don't want to put up with ego and pride... with some guide who thinks he's a badass and god.

I'm sure the guide wouldn't want to babysit somebody who wont listen to them either so that's a good idea, go find someone else.
Most of the guides I've known don't tell you things to impress you, they tell you to keep you alive, or to help you accomplish your goal of bagging an animal.

why should I accept the popular majority, why should I not question their beliefs or methods. Sometimes the popular majority is so set in their beliefs and thinks they are right and they get complacent to try and do new things. Why should I follow the crowd if I think I have a better idea.

First of all, I don't need a guide to baby me. I'm a grown man, and If I choose to do something that is dangerous and risky, i'm not asking the guide to jump of the cliff with me, I just ask him to show me where the damn bears are and then let me do the rest. HE can sit back and watch and twiddle his thumbs. However, this would not be possible in a modern society due to law suits and so forth.

2nd of all, you paint hunting guides with a broad brush and make them seem like they are the perfect angels that only care about giving you a good experience and they will jump across a gorge to save you. While a lot of guides are real guides and care about their clients and do a good job, there is a lot of money in the guiding business and i'm sure a lot are thinking about the benjamins at the end of the day.

Gotta love those end of the day bennies ----- only six more 150# loads to go!

Phil,
I'm sure those guys are making $75/hour with full health benefits and 401(k) plus the golden parachute plan should things not work out right?

Please tell me that's how it works!

(If so, sign me up!)

Those 150# moose loads just get the guides ready to haul the loads of cash home...

Here is where I live:



I am sure, the outfitters have a really big one, but they do not invite me home much...

How do you confuse advice from the pros as "Popular Majority Opinion"? You did not ask for popular opinion and got first class advice... And you want to sit back pompously in your LazyBoy with wattles aswingin' and giggling about how you would have them do it...

I know lots of guides and have not met a rich (monetarily) one yet.

If you ever go on a guided hunt this post should be a mandatory part of full disclosure for your guide...

If you stick around for awhile and keep your fingers still, I think you'll discover that, while some of these guys are opinionated (not me ), many of them actually know and willingly share one heck of a lot of knowledge - for free.

Most guides that I know have a lot of stuff, stuff which is broken and in need of repairs, expensive repairs which require money - and time which they don't have enough of. And while some manage to juggle well enough to make a comfortable living, many simply keep juggling so they can keep believing that they are. A lot of guys in the "assisted hunting" business would cry if they thought much about the money. The love of something is there, for sure, but it ain't about money.

He's not a tame little troll, is he?

Entertaining for a moment or two though...


bhtr

Dang. I'm halfway there.

Yup!! Treadwell & his girlfriend didn't need a guide either (although they weren't hunting). They had been warned not to go into that area and play with the bears. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and watch a bear guide sit back and let you go into the brush for a follow up.
Look, nimrod - a guide's job/responsibility is to keep idiots with wacko ideas like this out of trouble. Lottsa times I think they don't get paid enough. Other times, I think - "what the hell - let the guy get hurt - it's a real hassle protecting him from himself."
Bear in Fairbanks

The funny thing is, I'd wager most guides will tell you that the guys that talk tough about how they can sort things out and don't need a guide are the guys that have trouble placing their shots in the field, and crap their pants when they get close to a bear.

Iff'n the op hadn't mentioned where he was from, I woulda mistaked him for a Texan

Ouch.

A quite recent bear hunter that I was guiding told me that if I put a bullet in "his" bear then I would have to put my tag on it. Never mind the fact that guides can not shoot animals on their tags. He bragged about all his shooting ability but when the time came to shoot he completly missed twice and then hit the bear in the rear foot! then the guts! He could operate his bolt - if not the sights.
After the bear got into the brush, and he could hear it growling and thrashing, he told me that he would like to go in after it but just couldn't and that I would have to go in alone and kill it.
This happens more than folks care to admit. What I have found out is that the braggarts are the most guilty of poor shooting.

Mr. Russell got it right. Appropriate sig line.

Some of these guides in Canada charge $10,000 for a moose hunt or caribou or bear. Thats just ridiculous!! How high do you think their operating costs are??? Some gas for the quad, a few boxes of rifle bullets and paying for their lease or paying off any loans for their property... these guys have deep pockets don't fool yourself.

I think you've found an opportunity. Go for it.

Dang, Anybody know where I can find a moose, caribou, or bear lease?

Seriously Polska, you're so far out of your element it is really embarrassing to watch. IF you think guiding is just some dude with a 4-wheeler pointing out animals, I think you're beyond help.

no, it is hard, but it's not rocket science, and many natives who have no money for college or a real job become hunting guides cause people travel from all over the world to hunt species like moose, or bear, or caribou and these guides know it and they make A LOT of money. I'm not trying to minimize hunting guides, there are a lot of hunting guides that do the right thing, but there are a lot of others consumed by greed, just like anything else in the world money makes the world turn and even in remote places the same istrue

what the hell are you talking about

your ignorance is showing.

first, there is a diff between an guide and outfitter. the outfitter is the owner of the business, and the guy you pay for the hunt. the guide works for the outfitter and is the guy who will babysit you.

and there is a little more to it than a box of cartridges and gas for the atv. insurance, food, camp cook, horses if used, ect... all cost money. i don't even really like many of the outfitters i've been around, but none have been filthy rich.

What about these outfitters in Canada that are chargin 10 grand for a black bear hunt over bait, or a caribou or moose hunt for 12 grand. THATS INSANE, AND PEOPLE PAY IT. AND THESE CANADIAN LOSERS KNOW IT. They extort money from stupid people from america and other countries, cause Canada has no economy and no real jobs for them so they extort non-residents.

This:


You could be a contenda!

Link?

Polska
This is absolutely classic! PLease continue!

Ever hear of a Super Cub? Price one? Maintain one? Insure one? How about a Beaver or an Otter? Maybe a Heliocourier...

How about flying gas around to keep those little planes moving since they cannot make it to the next gas pump?

You are so completely out of it you do not even begin to understand how incredibly stupid you sound...
art

You guys pardon me while I leave to count all my money.
See you on another more sane forum

keep me in mind if you need a tax write-off

It's all these damn Canadians, all they do is leach. They leach off their government and they leach and extort American and foreign hunters, cause their country has no economy and they know Canada, sadly, has the best hunting in North America besides alaskan and some northwestern states. Just look at any guide in quebec or ontario or new brunswick or new foundland... and see their rates, bet you won't find a decent one for under 10,000

Congrats azzwipe!

Now you've aliented ALL of North America...

Anything, kielbasi man?

I hadn't checked in here in a couple of days. I didn't think it could get any better! But this has a significant entertainment value. I mounted a new EOTech 512 on my M4 style AR and shot it in yesterday. Loved it and now after reading this threat "I am loaded for Bear!" Can't wait for our Canadian friends to weigh in. Please continue on. CH

Polksa,
I'm on your side, if for no other reason than to cover all my bases! How about putting in a good word for me with Whoever. I'd appreciate it. All my other friends are in as much deep shete as I am. Thanks.

One more question please;

Would a Polack Canadian be half good or half assed?
We don't get much diversity down here and I might meet one or the other some day.
Thanks again.

this reminds me of the old south park movie and the blame canada song. hilarious seriouslsy polski your a douuche bag, i think youve watched too many shows on vs and read to many magizines.also the aimpoints used by the us military do fail, thats why they have buis. i dont think you would have to dig to hard to find some stories of them failing in combat. oh and i wanna meet the guy who charges 10gs for a baited black bear hunt and has more than one customer a year.

You're right Polska! Absolutely right! Studies have shown 96% of those so duped were of Polish descent The other 4 % were ecapees from insane assylums. The similarities end there tho, because not one of the idiots showed up with Aimpoints. Hey, even insane people have periodic spasms of good sense.I can sort of understand those blasted , Godless Canadians taking advantage of Polacks, but screwing the other insane people of the world is misquided. No pun intended.

No offense to our resident guides, but I imagine if they were to go to an accountant, pencil out their capital investment, opperating cost, and then figured out how short the season is to get a return on that investment, the accountant would recomend they invest their funds elsewhere.

I'd thought running a 6 pack would be a great job, as I love being out on the ocean and seeing fish get hooked. Then I penciled in the cost of a suitable boat, opperating costs, and working 12 hour days 7 days a week for a season that runs a bit over 3 months, but well short of 4 months. Then I figured there were alot easier ways to get a risky minimal return on an investment.

All that doesn't even include the joys of working for people who are sure they can do your job better than you can, and are indiginant you charge what you do.

Canada is a dump and it always was a dump. Copernicus was Polish, Pope John Paul was Polish, Mariusz Pudzianowski 5x world's strongest man is Polish, Tomasz Adamek multiple light heavyweight boxing champion is Polish... don't be jealous!

Wish kuteney was still at the 'fire. This could get downright hilarious!

Jeff

Serious question: How many times have you been to Canada?

That was my favorite part. What a tool.
I think this video VAnimrod posted this morning stars Polska on the right.

I've never had a problem with Candians. They've always been gracious and friendly.......New Yawkers....not so much.

I put them a short step ahead of Texans.

Please excuse my religious inexperience Polska, but was the Pole who was pope really named John, or did he have to change his name because no one could spell it in order to vote for him? WAIT! Wasn't this the pope who was shot 7 or 8 times with a 9mm, and lived? If so that may prove a couple things. First, the poor quy wasn't smart enough to duck after the first couple rounds, ( which sort of makes me think he Was indeed related to you if even remotely, and Second, either God looks out for the feeble minded, or a 9mm is a piss poor handgun round. I think not being sure of the second question may make me an agnostic, or auguanot,or aquarious, something like that anyway. Sorry for my lack of understanding of things Polish. We Kansans are open minded people sure enough, and the State is full of Democrats, ex cons, mimes, Illegal trespassers from south of de border, pimps, wanna be black gangsters on the federal paycheck, Chinese resturaunteers, and fat women in t shirts and tight pants, but we had to draw the line somewhere. When westward expansion was at it's hiegth shortly before and after the civil war, we put upa large sihn on the east bank of the Misouri river at Kansas city where the Oregon and Santefe Trails began which read, "FREE SAUERKRAUT THIS WAY" and pointed south. That diverted most of 'em on down into Alabama. We had to do it Polska. We didn't want to piss off the Comanche and Pawnee INdians anymore than we already had. They had their limits too you know?

whew about missed this thread, as I'm not really interested in a red dot scope.

but WTF? how come so many posts on it, maybe I better take a look and see what I can learn?


I learned plenty


thankee boys

break out the .500 H&H

Phil someday I'm gonna take a pic of Joe's house and send it to you.

I'd believe you'd enjoy it.

Polska,
Stand your ground buddy. It should be obvious that for a Pole to live for 25 years and still be sort of conversant, and able to type is an accomplishment few appreciate.You are a shining example to all that an embicile can survive despite his heritage. If you ever want to go on a brown bear hunt I will guide you down here for 75 bucks, cash, in advance, and you may carry any rifle/site combo you prefer, and do it your way. No problem. Send the money first and I'll have someone meet you at the airport.

is that offer only good for Polska or can anybody get in on it?

I always wanted to hunt bear in the wheatfields

Well, sure.....

Wayne Boscowicz, fairly well known.... Foggy Mountain Guide Service...

Ontario Bear Hunting & Fishing

Our area has a heavy concentration of bear, I might add we have many real big bear and also a few cinnamon and blond colored bear. We are located over a hundred miles from Thunder Bay hunting the Nipigon, Geraldton and Longlac regions.
You will arrive Sunday, hunt Monday through Friday and leave Saturday morning.

Bear Bait Hunts & Fishing (Starting Mid-August through Mid-September (U.S.Funds) $1,995.00
(Two Hunter Minimum)
Non hunting wife or partner (U.S. Funds) $325.00
Weekly land access fee (bear hunters only) $75.00
Taxes Not Included


I think an apology is in order or....

Stand your ground Polska. My deal can't be beat. Better send the money tho, I'm filling up fast. Strictly Fair Chase too.

headspace,

You, sir, have made my day!!!

I thought this thread was great before you explained the great migration across the Plains!

I bow before your skills O Great Wordsmith!!!

Please, do continue the History lesson. Might you be enlightening us on the cultural differences between Arcadians and Canucks? Is this why they extort everyone, particularly Poles, when they don't have to?

Thank you in advance,

Ed aka "Tears of Laughter"

P.S. I'm headed into Kansas tomorrow from Denver, hoping to find an errant pheasant. Do you think I might get in on the bear hunt deal?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what type of sight Polska uses, 20 minutes with this dude..................the guide and the bear will be tossing a coin to see who gets to kill him!

Tombo, do you think if the bear wins, will it eat him?
Will the guide use a red dot sight? Will the bear?

Ed

You can bet the guide won't use a red dot, he won't take any chances and the bear won't eat him when he finds out how full of [bleep] he is!!!????

Many times, when a guy says something obtuse, he will, if left uninterrupted, go ahead and top himself....

Gonna try & put an end to this nonsense thread now. If I'm not mistaken (could be), this scope that nimrod wants to use, shoots out a beam of light resulting in a red dot. If so, I do believe that it's illegal to use anyway. I'd have to check the regs but it seems to me I read that a scope with illuminated crosshairs was legal but a scope transmitting a beam of light was illegal. I could be wrong on theuse of such stuff tho.
I know nothing about this scope he's talking about since I don't like nor use any "wannabe" gear.
Bear in Fairbanks

Bear,

sights of the type "nimrod" is talking about do not project a beam onto the target, but inside the unit body onto a glass surface (either direted at the shooter - Eotech and others or directed away from the shooter - Aimpoints).

The dot then floats in your field of view (both eyes open and focused on target). Makes for a quick aiming system - when working.

You might contact a fellow Pole:

http://nortonsoundguideservice.net/nsgs/?page_id=2&lang=en

and ask him about a job so you can get in on the "bounty" of the "gouging". Then again, you might learn something from someone who is without question a whole lot smarter than you are making yourself out to be. And you won't find nicer or more helpful people to be around.

Headspace, I been living and hunting in Kansas for 35 years. As
hard as I've tried, I haven't been able to find a Bear. Do you think you could be my Guide next Bear Season ? What's our chances ?

Rabbitdog / Shriner

Next time I'm in Poland I'm going balls deep in several gals with no condom. Maybe I can breed the stupid out.

Good to see your helping your fellow man out!

I think you'd need to skull [bleep] him to breed the stupid out!

There's a picture.

Ok, I stand corrected. Shoulda kept my big mouth shut.
B.I.F.

Bear,

all the technical stuff aside, your feeling about these units for use in AK is correct.

Great idea in itself - no cut in the field. What fails under German hunting conditions, sure as heck does not get considered for AK.

I'd rather you continued to contribute. Others much more in need of a dose of STFU.

Just wanted to clarify, I take it you were not using nimrod in its formal meaning:

Nimrod ((Old Testament) a famous hunter), also known as a person who is dedicated to or skilled in hunting.

I'm sure you were only using nimrod as slang in the informal sense:

Informal: A person regarded as silly, foolish, or stupid.

In its true meaning, some of the greatest hunters we've ever known are/were big time nimrods

Best:)

Rabbitdog,
I'm keeping my limited bear properties set aside for the Polock, soon as he sends the money. I'm beginnning to think he can't raise 75 bucks. After all, that's almost 50% of the amount Poland spent on it's defense department in 1938. I'll put you down for next season tho. I quarantee the biggest chance in the industry.

Just how tough are you?
Scent Blocker clothing was invented in Poland to try to increase the birth rate there.When it didn't work there the patent holder sold the idea to some sharp operater in Alabama for 15 bucks. That guy made a fortune marketing to the only group of people slower than Poles. Bowhunters from the South.

one of those eotech xps transverse models would be nice on my future ruger alaskan in 416 ruger. Nice and small, runs on 1 cr 123 battery, rugged. good reticle - 65 moa circle with 1 moa dot. nice for up close or far.

natural selection at work before our very eyes...

She will ask for your advice,
your reply will be concise,
she will listen very nicely
and go out and do precisly what she wants.

Professor Henry Higgins
"My fair Lady" Opera

Certain parallels are hard to not notice.

Have a friend with a .375 RUM w/ an EOTech on it. After several years of using it to kill brown bears, in hindsight, he wishes he would have gone w/ a .375 HH and a low powered scope. In particular, the EOTech offers nothing better over a good scope for close work, and it is much worse for anything past 100 yds.

You can blow me at the next band camp Steely.

Christ Polska, you sure dug yourself into a deep dark hole over the last ten days...I actually like Canada and the opinionated bastids here at the fire...

If you gotta have a red dot, why not get off your wallet and buy a Schmidt short dot?

I forgive you for the bandcamp comment...that was hilarious.

Polskas "inquirery" and the incredulity by some professional users prompeted me to do a simple test.

Unit tested:

Aimpoint Micro H1 powered by 1 new Lithium CR2032 battery
(in accordence with Aimpoint Specs)

Function test modi:

1) continous - unit switched on - Red dot is lit y/n
2) toggle - unit is switched on/off and brightness changed - Red dot lights/switches off/ changes intensity y/n

Function test environments:

1) roomtemperature: 18�Celsius
2) freezer: -30� Celsius

Reason for testing:

Per Aimpoint spec sheet the unit will work from -30�C to + 60�C. Aimpoint advertising has many words for the reliability of the devices.

My device failed to switch on twice in the field at subzero temperatures around -5 to -10�C.

So - I wanted to know - Does leaving the device switched on solve the issue?

Results:

Mode 1 at room temperature - all works.
Mode 2 at room temperature - all works.

Mode 1 at -30� Celcius - nothing works.
Mode 2 at -30� Celsius - nothing works.

Switching to a warm battery in the frosted sight - all works.

Conclusion:

The tested unit is not reliably used at subzero temperatures.
The expierienced failures in the field were not random.
Source of failure has been identified as the battery. As batterys of the highest quality have been chosen - there is no room for improvement left.
As the battery has been identified as the source of failure - leaving the unit switched on does not make the unit usefull in subzero temperatures.

Results may differ with different models/battery types, as can be reasoned that the flat CR type cells are easily affected by cold.



Knowing trumps guessing - using these for brown bear hunting is foolish.

Thanks for taking the time to test this!

Li batteries are crap in the cold. NiMH aren't much better. Good old NiCad's work the best (but aren't that great either....). Anyone who uses Cordless Tools figured this out a while back (no slight to you Mr. cmg).

One more reason....

Nice work cmg--very good to know!

I don't think it matters whether this Pole is male or female; fact of the matter is "it" is a disgrace to the nationality. I have known some real great Polish people who were bright and masters of their trades. Polska whomever you are may be well educated and spoiled by your Daddy but you're also showing the resemblance to the backend of a horse. You have asked question after question and challanged the answers from people who have held the plow in the ground to get the right to give the answers. You have driven one from this forum and you owe some sort of apologies. Kotzy

Please tell who that was?

458win

Don't worry.

458 has been around to many blocks to many times to be chased of by any trolls.

Was last online 27.12.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...6/Nitro_Express_Forum_hacked#Post4748076

I didn't feel chased off - I gave my opinion and then followed the advice given to me by my son who says that argueing on the internet is like running in the special olympics - even if you win you are still retarded.

What a scare!!! I was sure Phil had lost his nerve over a deranged Pole on the prowl!



















NOT!!!!!!

I hope my sons will give me the same sage advice when they are a bit older. (They are soon to be "smarter than their Dad" which means it'll still be a few years I imagine. )

So, what would be the maximum prudent threshhold before you pull the trigger on a charging bear intent to get a piece of you? Say you are holding a lever 45-70 and here he comes. How close do you let him get before lights out?

IIRC, when Phil posted that, he was referring to a hunting situation.

As I'm sure you know, each time is a different situation.

Of course, you realize you would be speaking German if it weren't for us (U.S.) ?
Should you choose to disagree just revisit your learnin'. History class hasn't been that long ago for you, has it?

sorry for chasing people away. How about the t-1, not the h-1. the t-1 is supposedly a little tougher and night vision compatable. I think I will go with a t-1

I think anything that has even the slightest chance of making you a bear turd is a good route.

Sounds perfect for those night hunts for bear and other dangerous game!

Jeff

Definately go with the t-1.....it is night vision capable which will come in handy on virtually any bear hunt.

Do not bother actually reading any posts.

The T1 uses the same housing and the same battery as the H1.

My thinks - Steelhead called this one.

Polish (bear) sausage?

Actually the aimpoint sight says that the T-1 is from -50 to 160 in fahrenheit

the t-1 is rated to -50 F

You're confusing the -50 with your IQ

Be sure to take the instructions with you so you can show them to the bear when you call time out.

The factory irons on the alaskan look pretty high, higher then on my marlin... I wonder if I could still seem them through the bottom of the micro since the micro sits fairly low

No - I have tryed it.

P'haps you need to stop wondering and start doing?

I'm begining to think my RRA .556 with the new EOTech might not be the best bear gun.
Brooks Range hasn't posted in a while, was he Polish too?

I think that is perfect! Its going to work great for you! Go for it, post some pictures of your rifle and your hunt! When are you leaving, soon I hope...

I think we need to start a campfire fund to send Steelhead to Poland.

I'm so there!

It's just a short hop to the Ukraine where all the cute chicks are.

I have so enjoyed this thread. But on an almost serious note I read on this site a discussion about the use of laser dot sights like Crimson Trace. One poster opined that his AK bear guide liked to keep one for a tent gun in case of bears. I guess that'd be OK if the tent is heated, but those things run off a coin type battery too and I'm pretty sure they'd poop out after prolonged exposure to the cold. Of course the up side is they don't affect the iron sights access or function. I know this is just feeding the troll but I've been enjoying the responses. Maybe the answer is a laser sight and an Aimpoint hooked up to one of those little crank phone chargers your tracker or gun bearer could crank for you. Maybe I'm getting my contients mixed up.

Sights like Crimson Trace and others that project a beam are illegal for hunting in Alaska but since defense of life and property is not hunting they can be used for that. I would not want to have one permanently mounted on any gun I was hunting with though.
From my experience the batteries on the Crinson Trace handgun grips work perfectly well at -40 and last for years.

Mr. 458Win,
If you do not mind my asking, at -40, was the handgun being carried under a coat and next to one's body or outside the coat and exposed to the cold?
Your assistance in this matter is most appreciated.
Best Wishes

Haven't read this for a couple of weeks...boy did I miss out... .

Also didn't realize I'd been chopped by Polski...sounds like he was born about ten years after I killed my first deer...yep...I'm pretty sure he knows more about this than I do... .

One thing that occurs to me, thinking about when I was 25, is that no one to speak of has any records of anything stupid or arrogant that I said to anyone back then. Today's world, with all the various forms of electronic records, not so good for a guy. Twenty years from now, people will be pulling stories out and showing. Not such a good thought, for some...

Pretty funny... .

Dennis

I keep a S&W M-60 with the Crimson Trace outside in my truck and leave my K-22 with a Crimson Trace grip hanging out on the porch in Central. I take a walk every day, even at -50, and wear the holster and belt on the outside of my coat to keep the frost off the guns. Even at -50 the laser sights works fine.

got a grin out of that Phil


you could most always see Bob Bootang (sp?))

humping his pack up Chena ridge, no matter the weather.

if you don't know Bob, he's a little guy, I have to imagine when he's had to pack out wet bear hides or big moose hinds, those regular jaunts made a difference for him.

btw Phil, you ever weigh any of those big bear hides you've taken?

I'd be curious as to what some of those weighed.

I've met Bob a few times and staying in shape gets harder every year. I always swear I won't let myself get out of shape after each season but all a guy has to do to get out of shape is nothing. Throw in a few holidays and a couple of get together with friends and clients and the bear hide keep getting heavier every year.

Mr. Shoemaker,
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Will take a closer look at their product. We also enjoy a daily walk.
Best Wishes

One of the benefits of the Crimson Trace and other sights that project a beam is that during our long, low periods of winter light they work exceptionally well.

Can't we just let this thread die. Why feed trolls? He's received more answers/opinions than Carter has liver pills.
Bear in Fairbanks

Especially since he has long since gone on and changed handles...

to what?

And, posted a near-identical thread in Africa.