I have seen over the years, many times in print, the statement that generally copper fouling was more pronounced in front of the chamber...rather than toward the muzzle. It seems like the most logical assumption, that's where the grooves in the jacket are formed, that is where temperatures and pressures are the highest. I was wondering if inspection with a bore scope bears this out?
What prompted the question was, I'm on day 2 of rigorously cleaning a barrel that I suspected was never cleaned since it was sold in 1928. It may have been given an occasional swipe with old formula Hoppes to neutralize the primer salts...but that's about it. To the naked eye, the bore is shiny and smooth and I can't see any visible copper at the muzzle but patches are still coming out green. I used to help a machine gun collector clean after a big shoot...and I can't recall ever spending the better part of 2 days with no end in sight. If there is a buildup forward of the chamber I wonder if I may need to plug the chamber and fill the barrel with solvent.

What are you using for solvent? What material is the jag or brush made of?
If you are using a bronze or brass brush or jag with a copper solvent you will continue to get green patch’s.

Hard nylon brush, alternating Sweets 7.62 and Bore Tech...last patch I pushed through 15 min ago, I used a hardwood ramrod with no attachments.

With the now discontinued Foul-Outs, a person could sure tell where the copper fouling was found.I cleaned several old military rifles and used firearms and I can't say there was more fouling at the breech, but I didn't have a bore scope. I only inspected the rod where th copper was deposited. Sure could tell the tight spots it the barrel.

My pre 64 Winchester FWT always fouls at the muzzle.

Responses should be interesting from those with bore scopes

Cut to the chase: JB bore paste

I wonder why they discontinued the foul out system.

Many years ago I would use an o-ring chamber plug, fill the bore with Hoppes Benchrest copper remover and let it soak for a day or so. Seemed to be a fairly common technique. I aways avoided routine use of abrasive cleaners like JB, though occasionally find that they're necessary.

I have a borescope and would agree that more copper seems to collect near the muzzle, though not sure why.

This^^^^^^^

If I want to clean the copper out of my barrels,I use JB Bore Paste.I wrap a patch coated with JB paste and a little oil around a bore brush.I usually do about ten back and forth strokes down the whole length of the bore per patch.What I've noticed,a copper fouled barrel may seem tight from the throat to around midway down the barrel.After three to five patches,I can actually feel the bore is smoother all the way the length of the barrel.A borescope will confirm how clean it is,but if you don't have one,feel is one thing you can go by.I've never had JB paste hurt any of my barrels and it is the quickest way I know to remove copper and carbon from your barrels.

I have done well with BoarTech copper solvent
I use their BP solvent on my blackpowder guns.

Lacking a bore scope, it's all just guessing. -Al

Yep!

And the Teslong I use only cost about as much as a box of good bullets when I bought it.

I've never had JB's to hurt a barrel that I could tell and use it fairly often. Just use a good bore guide when using it.

As for Foul Out, look around on the www. You can find recipes for the liquid and directions for a home made rod and power supply. I had one of the original units. It seemed to work good on a couple heavily copper fouled barrels but I never used it much. I haven't tried the homemade recipes.

What's the best American made bore scope?

The Hawkeye from Gradient Lens Corp.

Here is a barrel I used JB Paste on.
Before


After

My brother had a Hawkeye. I think his was rigid? Which model is best for rifle bores?

No JB was harmed in the cleaning of this rifle.



Nylon brush and 15 min later



5 patches later

My bore scope shows copper build up at the muzzle,

For the price of a Teslong nowadays , they are dang handy,

Wipeout foam for me. Best cleaner ever.

Wipe-Out works well, but there are others that work even quicker.

Always interesting to hear what's "best" on these threads, by people who've used a handful of cleaners.

All the Hawkeyes are rigid--but provide far more detail than digital scopes like the Teslong. Depends on what you want/need.

But Gradient also offers flexible bore-scopes--for far more $$ than the rigid models.

I started using Sweets decades ago and have been satisfied, killing critters, so continue to use it.

It had a tendency to eat barrels, if neglected.

John,
I'm a Wipe-Out fan, but always wanting to learn. What are the ones that are quicker, and are any of them as "gentle" as wipe-out, or are there any extra precautions that need to be taken with the faster products?

Thanks in advance,
Rex

A couple of rifles purchased used were particularly stubborn and fouled severely. An undersized bronze brush, 243 in a 6.5 mm, or 6.5 in a 7 mm, wrapped with 0000 steel wool and imbedded with JB will speeds things along. About 50 strokes, adding bore paste at intervals.

Then back to Sweets with a SS jag and patch, and dry the bore. And sometimes a dose of Hoppes 9, then a dry patch.

If the scope still says dirty, or the patches are still blue, depending on severity, I might go back to the steel wool, or repeat the sweets.

Fine Bronze wool is better than 0000 Steel wool, safer. Buy off of Ebay.

JB bore bright is more aggressive than std JB

Montana Extreme Copper killer is very effective on caked on copper, You can brush with it using their plastic brushes or saturate a wool mop.

For me, nothing cleans a badly neglected, heavily fouled barrel, better than JB.

For regular cleaning I use Forrest foam. It will end up cleaning the heaviest copper plating but it will need to leave it soaked up in the foam for two-three days and it nights.

I always thought copper fouling was worst at the muzzle end but that was just it was visible to the naked eye, while nothing could be seen when looking from the breech. Until I bought a Hawkeye which showed the worst fouling starting one or two inches in forn of the first rifling. In all of my guns.

chamois

I like Hoppes 9 foaming cleaner. For serious cleaning I use JB. But when I get a new used rifle home, I’ll use that foaming cleaner - it’s really good.
I’ve tried most of the bore cleaners on the market. I still have others on my bench - Shooters Choice, Butch’s Bore Shine, Sweets, and a couple others.

I doubt I need the best bore scope. I often go cheap and then wish I went better. The Hawkeyes good for .177 to .458?

The standard Hawkeye won't work on the .17's. If you need that capability, the Super Slim model is what you need. Mine is the Shooters Deluxe edition with the hard case, the 90 degree eye piece (I highly recommend it) and the Super Nova light source (nice but not needed). The Super Nova is often too much light in the smaller bores. By the time you adjust it down, you're right where the standard light source is without all the extra cost.

With the emergence of the Teslongs, you can often find used Hawkeyes for less than half of new price. There's one on Accurate Shooter right now. I'd not dawdle...hint, hint.
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/hawkeye-borescope.4120414/#post-38909771

When I want to capture an image, the 26" rigid Teslong does the job.

If I want to get the copper out of a typical barrel quickly I generally use Montana X-Treme Copper Killer. Like regular Montana X-Treme, it's oil-based so can be left in the bore indefinitely with any extra precautions, but works far quicker. In fact, when working on one of the 20-25 handloads for a specific cartridge articles I used to do for Handloader, I'd often swab the bore of the test rifle with Copper Killer just before putting together a batch of test-loads, which might take 45 minutes to an hour. By the time the loads were assembled the barrel was copper-free.

In general the regular Montana X-Treme works about as quickly as either the foaming or liquid Wipe-Out. Leaving any of them in overnight usually gets most "regular" copper-fouling out.

Al,

My Hawkeye is the super-slim model. One disadvantage is that it only allows a look straight down .17 bores, not a close-up of the bore's surface, as the right-angle slip-over rod does in larger bores.

It's actually my second Hawkeye. Bought the first over 20 years ago from Brownells, but a few years ago the folks at Gradient offered to trade me one of their upgraded models, which is noticeably brighter and sharper than the older one.

John

Morning, John. The angled lens was the big reason I didn't go with the Super Slim model. The Teslongs let you look. But as you know, the Hawkeyes really let you s-e-e.

18 degrees here with Northwest winds from 25-40 today. Stay warm out there. -Al

When I need a copper solvent that's aggressive but has some protection, I mix a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil in Sweets. In my early days (pre bore scope), I'd use household ammonia with a bit of Marvel in it.

Ahh, thanks, maybe I don't need to build one with my tendency to get side tracked on multiple projects.

Yep, the view through Hawkeyes is vastly better than through Teslongs. I bought my Teslong due to a long-time journalistic tendency to try stuff out. I did--but eventually decided I didn't need one, so sold it to a local guy who was always asking if he could come over and use the Hawkeye! (I also got the Super Slim Hawkeye due to the journalistic "need" to look inside .17 barrels....)

Luckily, we have been having mostly average weather for this time of year in Montana--which mean highs around 50--though of course we also get some snow. And right now we need more snow in the mountains!

I looked at that a couple of times. It’s missing the degree eyepiece and the Super Nova light source, right?

I only have one 17, a 17 Hornet. I can pass on the super slim model, I’d guess.

The standard light source is more than adequate and simple. You can buy an angled eyepiece seperately if you like.

Teslong also has a new model folding bore scope that has the focus externally rather than the adjustable mirror length style. It comes with it's own stand alone 4.5" monitor for about $180. On my rigid Teslong, the red mirror adjusted at the halfway point works 90% of the time without any fiddling.

Everyone has their own poison. I use Brasso.

kwg

Teslong also has a new model folding bore scope that has the focus externally rather than the adjustable mirror length style. It comes with it's own stand alone 4.5" monitor for about $180. On my rigid Teslong, the red mirror adjusted at the halfway point works 90% of the time without any fiddling.

What's the advantage of the rigid Teslong, I have the flex version.

But the Teslong is made by the Communist Chinese, correct?

Hey John, any suggestions for cleaners that work as well as the Montana X-Treme products but without the volatile odors? I clean in our basement and the odor can get to you. I have been using Boretech Eliminator recently because of the low odor. It works but not as well as the Montana X-Treme.

I've used Boretech Eliminator, as well as plenty of Wipe-Out and Patch-Out. They work--but so far haven't found any others that work as quickly as the X-Treme products. WITHOUT the necessity to swipe-out the bore and reapply every 10-15 minutes.

Might also mention that I do use the Montana X-Tremes in my basement in weinter--but over in an isolated corner, as we don't use the basement for anything except storage, and a secondary reloading bench. Not for living space.

In warmer weather use it in the garage, near my primary loading bench.