7x57 verses the 284 Win.

Which one is better and why!

yawn!!!

Does one have to be better ?
I think the .284 has a little more room for powder, so you can probably get more velocity with it.
But I like the 7X57. I like it alot !
Can't say its better than the .284. Or the .280 or the 7mm08.
They are all prety much interchangable. Take your pick.
...tj3006

The 284's way more accurate, you illiterate or sumthin?

Both good,but,for me......neither.280

I'm going with a wildcat - the 7mm x 257 Bob <g>

Just for conversation's sake , does anyone know/have handy the case capacities of the 7-08, 7X57, 7X57AI, and 284? IIRC Mule Deer wrote an article with a table that listed a bunch of 7mm case capacities, but I can't seen to locate it.

Can U please rephrase your question. I seem to have a lot of difficulty comprehending what u'r looking for...LMAO

All case capacities are approximate, because brass varies, but with a typical 140 spitzer loaded to factory OAL here's a close enough list:

7mm-08 50 grs.
7x57 53 grs.
7x57 AI 56 grs.
.284 59 grs.

Here's the deal on that. A 284 loaded to factory OAL is not going to get much over a 7-08 especially with the longer bullets. A Wyatt's box or a winnie short action allows a longer length and can get 'er to really purr along, without any pressure issues. I think Melvin uses a 3" box on his NULA. My 284 on a M-70 can get closer to a 7wsm than a 7-08 can get to the 284. I own all three. It very satisfactorily fills that gap. I would also think the 7x57 AI would be a dandy, and I'd take one of those in a heartbeat, again on the right SA. Those are 4 great fun cartridges listed especially if you're a 7mm nut.

[quote=RickF]The 284's way more accurate, you illiterate or sumthin?

Did you really think you wouldn't be chalenged after making an imflametary statement like that. The 7x57 can be made to shoot as acurately as any .284.

Von Gruff.

I still think that the 7.x57 Ackley is the best all around 7mm out there.
Exellent velocity, great accuracy, easy to form the brass, and its very efficient.

I can get pretty good velocities from a 99 Savage in 284, almost on par with a 280 or 270 but not quite and that is mostly because of the spring in a 99 action..cut about 2 grs. off of a .280 or 270 and they about duplicate a .284.

The 7x57 AI is an awesome round and Ackley himself said that that in all his years of work improving a multitude of cartrides the 7x57, 257 Roberts, and the 250-3000 Savage were the top three and showed 300 plus FPS improvement. That is sugnificant for sure..

All that said I have a 7x57 and 257 Robts and both are standard except I have 30-06 magazines and long throats so that I can set my bullet way out yonder and I get 7x57 and 257 Roberts IMP velocities..Just another way to skin a cat..

I think the .284 has a place in the scheme of things, and that is in the Savage and Win Lever and auto actions..If I want a bolt gun of the .284 class then it will be a .280 Rem. or a 270 Win. I see no purpose to an action that is 1/4 inch shorter, it has nothing to offer IMO..at least for those that can chew gum and walk at the same time..:)

My results with the .284 in a 99 are just about like Ray's. It comes up about 100 fps short of a .270 or .280 with the same bullets weights just because the 99 starts to get a little sticky sooner than a bolt action. In the real world that doesn't mean much, as it will still kill the same animals if you point it right.

As I pointed out on another thread, the .284 was designed to get approximate .270 ballistics in a lever or semi-auto. If you want a bolt action instead there's really no reason not to just do a .270--or .280 or 7x57. In a 98 Mauser action and the same barrel length all three of those rounds will pretty well do the same things, unless you want to get nit-picky about chronograph numbers. In the field it's pretty hard to tell the difference!

.....hurrah!

I understand the infatuation with a 7x57 AI,and how much fun it is to dream this stuff up...... I hear this stuff all the time...but will someone explain to me what the hell this offers,in the same length action, that you cannot get with a 280.....and with factory brass!.....to boot!......imagine that!

There is nothing to match the delusionary visions of wildcatters!Too funny!

I suspect the excitement has to do with that magic advertising word "improved" It's like "extra added bonus" but not as redundant.

As if anybody could improve on a cartridge that has now been killing all sorts of big game for 117 years now.

JB: Forgive me if' I'm mistaken, but wasn't a lot of this AI stuff done when there were not so many cartridges around to fill all these"imaginary" velocity gaps? And to make those existing cartridges,like the 7x57,do things that are now accomplished with standard factory ammo in standard cartridges?

The term "7x57 Improved",to me,seems like an oxymoron.....like 375 (Improved?) or 30/06 (Improved? aka 300 WSM)or, (possibly the most utterly useless of all,as it sits squarely in the tiny ballistic world between the 280 and 7 Mag (the 280..Improved???)....

A 150 7mm bullet at 3050?...one trip to Walmart for a box of Remington CoreLokts, 7RM...you got it!

Don't hurt nothing, can still fire factory ammo, don't need to mess with case trimming and leads to more trigger time (generally speaking)

Guess those are downsides for anti-blue tape types.

Doesn't hurt a thing, Scott.Just kinda funny sometimes when it's taken seriously.

They are the only thing off of factory I will mess with. Wildcats ain't worth my effort any longer and I still like the option of factory ammo if need be.

Course I do have a 6.5/06 still.

The biggest advantage I have seen from the improved rounds is indeed the almost total elimination for case trimming. I load a lot of rounds and eliminating a step is a good thing!

But it really saves signficant time only when loading lots and lots of rounds, as for prairie dog shooting. Even then I find that neck-sizing often accomplishes much the same thing.

6.5/06 is a good wildcat;even a 270 nut can find room for that one

Ray, you say the 7x57 AI is an awesome round, in a long action I presume. Then say the the 284 which out does the 7x57 AI in a short action as having no place in a bolt gun and to get a 280.

You don't make any sense, sir.

I say if you have a long action get a 280 AI and if a short action a 284. I like short action for the same reasons that
260, 708, 338 Fed, 358 win owners like them.

The 7x57 gives you 708 performance in a long action. Wow!

With RL17 the 284 will get right there with the 280 Rem.

I have a 7x57AI on a LA Rem action.With the 140's I get 3050fps w/RL19.I have no illusions of it being a 280IMP but I can shoot the cup and core as well as the bonded bullets w/almost the same results.I have and will always shoot the 140gr Ballistic tips and no the extra 150fps does not make them come apart.Would I trade it for a 280...no!I have two other 7x57's and they do the same thing on our large s.Texas whiteails w/140's. powdr

lucky for me, your opinion on this does not hold much weight.

I know a rifle loony who is one of the looniest. Any cartridge that has to have a bullet seated below the neck drives him batty. He will chamber a rifle for a SHORTER cartridge just so he can seat the bullet to the base of the neck--and somehow believes that he will get more velocity because the bullet isn't taking up as much powder space.

The truth is that aside from some minor mechanical diffculties (such as a "doughnut" of extra brass forming at the base of the neck after a few firings, which can be reamed out) just about any cartridge presently loaded will have to have some bullet seated below the neck.

Another little piece of reality is that a the base of a bullet takes up just as much powder space in the neck as it does below the neck. Just because a case has a long neck it doesn't mean a longer bullet doesn't take up powder space inside the neck.

Thanks for the info!! I've sorta wondered if the X57AI gained enough over an -08 case to make a 6.5X57AI Kimber MT a worthwhile convervsion... I know loony, gack.

Mule Deer, You mentioned that Winchester brought out the 284 in an effort to approximate 270 Win speeds/power in a short action. What caused them to want to do that in 284 diameter instead of their beloved 277 diameter? Seems like the word "Winchester" and "270" just go together. Sales may have been better.
And today it would be a hot wildcat in 7mm.

Manlicher: Not dumping on your favorite of course,but since the action length is the same for the 7x57AI and a 280,and the 7x57 requires the extra step of forming brass and all the other stuff that goes with it,I'm just trying to figure out what is so alluring about it when a factory cartridge does the same thing....AND,what makes the cartridge so fabulous ,when it's no better than a 280?

That was my point.....

rifle lunatics...I guess its better to obsess about a few mm's of length and a few FPS argue stongly the case for the bullet case etc. rather than losing money at the race track or spending money on 20 year old single malt whiskey....but on the other hand...

Rifle loonys are wired into more, better(New, and Improved) and different at birth...

jimmy: I used to spend time and money obsessing over tiny ballistic things and to some degree I still do,though not as much.

Today I'd rather spend both on the single malt....

The .284 is more versatile than the 7x57. While the .284 was originally marketed in a lever action with ballistic performance comparable to that of the .270, it has adapted well to short bolt-action mountain rifles and to long-range varmint rifles. A bench-rest rifle in .284-caliber currently holds the National F-Class record at 1000 yards.

Although Winchester chose the 7mm bore size to compete with the .280, it was a good choice for other reasons. A larger bore can lower chamber pressure, lengthen barrel life, and present greater bullet choices.

If one takes the time to think about it, there are very few exceptions to the contention that cartridge developement could have stopped about 1930 (earlier than that if we could live without the 270. Easy for me but some others may think differently!). There have been some particularily good cartridges developed subsequently (the 222 Remington and the 308 Winchester come to mind)but the 284 isn't one of them.
We could all hunt and do most anything else if just given the original Mauser cartridges. I have no doubt that a 7x57 would do just fine as an "F" class cartridge just as does the 6.5x55.
Anyway, to those to whom a headstamp is magical, the 284 may be something special. From a practical performance perspective, it is not. The same is, of course, true of the 7x57 or the 280.
I've long been a fan of the 30/40 Krag cartridge; talk about hitching your wagon to a dying horse! I hunt with it lots and in my mind, it's a totally different proposition than the 308, the 300Savage, or any other medium caliber. In truth, it's just the same.
My true feeling is, within reason, it's the rifle which is the important thing. Bore size is semi-important. The cartridge designation is an accessory of less importance than the sling. GD

pjf,

You're a highly entertaining writer, and keep coming up with real doozies. Winchester did NOT introduce the .284 to compete with the .280.

The .284 came out in 1963, a year after the 7mm Remington Magnum essentially cut the .280 off at the knees. For at least a decade after that the .280 was just about dead--the reason Remington finally tried to "revive" the .280 by renaming it the 7mm Express, a marketing decision that ranks right alongside New Coke as a promotional disaster.

In fact, there was no reason for Winchester to ever be worried about the .280, since they'd brought out a highly successful cartridge called the .270 a couple of decades before the .280 showed up.

While the "7MM EXP REM" was a bad idea, calling the 280 "7MM-06 REM" was probably worse, considering the potential headspace issues that a wildcat 7mm-06 might have in a 280/7mm-06 REM chamber, or factory specs 280/7mm-06 REM ammo in a wildcat 7mm-06 chamber. Bearrr264 had a NIB 700 BDL with the barrel stamped 7MM-06 REM ****** 280 REM which he believed to be 1 of the few, 200+/-, that escaped from Ilion before Remington's management team had their "Aw $hit, I coulda had a V-8!" epiphany and recalled them.

Maybe you should conduct a survey and see what microscopic percent of the shooting public gives a rat's ass about what cartridges are used to shoot F-Class BR. AFAICS, F-Class BR has about as much in common with "the average hunter" as indy car racing has to do with soccer-mom rug-rat haulers, IOW, not much.

I've been shooting the 284 for nearly 38 years, when I got a Winchester 88 carbine to suppliment my Ruger 44 International, Remington 660 in 6mm, and Mauser 24/30 in 7x57. It is a nice cartridge, but I honestly believe that its greatest value is as a source of brass for its most useful off-spring, the 25-284.

Jeff

I'm gonna opt to skip right over pjf...and argue with Bob on one point...yeah we are getting old enough to no longer dwell over minutae....but as far as spending on single malt...I'd have to dispute that in favor of Single Barrel Bourbon!
No other disputes here...the 7x57 is the ultimate, consummate cartridge!
Ingwe

MD
What happened to the X die? They?, did advertise that the X die would reduce the amount of trimming needed
Phil

SU35,
Maybe you should reread my post...First, I do think the 7x57 is an awesome round, what has that go to do with the .284 which is another awesome round and one that I consider a better choice in a Lever action rifle as they seem to feed the rebated rim better than the bolt guns. I have never been a fan of the rebated rim.

Also,I am of the opine that short actions have little to offer and if a 1/4 inch of bolt toss is an advantage then I am glad your happy with it..I would much prefer a 280 IMP over the .284. Also I see little in the future for the .284 and at some point brass may become an issue particularly into todays political cloud. I might add I can make a 7x57 shoot circles around a 7-08, with any bullet, and please understand that we all have a right to an opinnion and that is all I posted was an opinnion..

BTW in my opinnion there isn't enough difference in any of the calibers were talking about to make a damn in either velocity, bullet weight, or trajectory, so its not much more than stimulating conversation, and nothing to get your shorts in a wad over.

Ray,

Maybe you should reread my post.

I addressed you respectfully, sir.


I agree we are entitled to our opinions.

Here's mine.

I would much prefer a 280 IMP over a 7x57 in long action.

Jeff,

I have one of the M700s marked 7mm-06 Remington,it is a M700 Classic that was used at the shot show the year that Remington decided to reintroduce the 280 with a whole new name.

Mr pjf has a 70s vintage Ruger M77 in 284 of which he is justifiably quite proud. I have an earlier vintage Flat bolt Ruger M77 in 284 myself.

Both the Remington and the Ruger have 22 inch barrels and they weigh the same on my postal scale,but the Ruger is a few millimenters shorter in overall length. They are pretty much identical in terms of how they feel and handle in the field.

I also have a Remington Mountain Rifle in 280 from the first year they were produced,it weighs a good half pound less than the short action Ruger in 284.

The capabilities of the 7x57,284,and 280 are pretty much interchangable. I would not consider rechambering any rifle that I own in any of the three to any of the others.

Even if it's a practical conversion,it's still silly. I have a lovely Mannlicher stocked Brno 22 in 7x57,I would deserve a good slapin' if I rechambered it to 280 or 280 AI,and they will fit in the action.

But if I ever decide to get started in "F Troop Competition"......

Just shoot me.

labsandelk,

RCBS still makes X-Dies in certain chamberings.

To tell the truth, I tried 'em in .223 and .30-06 when they first came out and never could see much difference. But some people apparently have had better results.

...Fine cartridges all of them (284, 7/08, 270,280 &280AI). My prejudices lead me to favor the 284 and ultra light short action rifles. I know that it is often said that feeding problems hang around the front door of the 284, but in thirty one years of service my Remington 600 barreled in 284 has yet to give me a failure to feed. I guess it has more to do with proper cobbling of the magazine feed rails, etc. than with incurable obstinacy.

How about a Mexican SR '98 in 7x57... the 'original' short action, and all one could ever need... whether you like long actions, short actions, ultra light actions, magnum actions, whatever.

I have a 257 AI that I built on a VZ24 so it could just as easily have been a 25'06 and avoided feed issues, giving up about the same velocity if not a bit more. Truth is, it was my first semi-custom job, and I'd always loved the cartridge.

I just like different stuff, personally, and enjoy the process of working up loads and such. These conversations are cool, and I can't drink so the single malt, as wonderful as it tastes, isn't where I'll put my resources.

A three rifle battery of the 22 lr, 7x57 (or da schpringfield), and 375 H&H... they'll spoil even the most loony of the loony end the 'need' rationale... but who ever said anything about need?

Now that is laughable at best! Ray was doing great until he stepped in a cowpie!

So why did the silhouette competition crowd shun the 7X57 in favor of the 7-08?

MtnHtr

OK guys,after all this banter I need advice...I have a chance to pick up a lovely 1949-1950 era single broach FN with Waldron metal,bolt handle,safety,bottom metal etc.

I have a #2 9 twist Krieger in the safe...

It can't be a 280 AI because it will not feed from the action(it's been tried) and I am not going to hack up this lovely old action so that it does.

What do I chamber it for??????




Ingwe: I do not discriminate....the bourbon is just fine!



Lastly, I think SU started this thread to have a debate regarding a comparison of these rounds for hunting and rifles suitable to the task,although he was not specific; what possible relevance this could have to 1000 yard bench rest matches is beyond me.

The world I live in is strictly a bolt action world when it comes to center fire rifles.

I do own a presentation grade 99 Savage in .308 but only because it was left to me by my father several years ago.

When it comes to bolt rifles, I really don't consider the difference between the long action and short action to be a significant thing but will go with the short action if I don't have to give up much to use one. The .284 is one of those cartridges that allows this.

That said, I haven't seen a box of .284 ammo in a gun shop in twenty years but 7 X 57 ammo is available in many places.

Because I'm a die hard reloader that too is a minor point.

The big difference is that I can't ream the .284 chamber to .280 Remington but I can ream the 7 X 57 chamber.....this makes it an easy decision!

Bob, I'll never understand the need for the 7x57 round outside of
a romantic nostalgia of yesteryear.

And just maybe that is what your FN action needs along with a fine wood stock and deep blue.


Better yet, will it feed the 9x62?

Gentlemen
It seems more relevant to discuss the merits of Blantons Bourbon verses Oban Scotch

SU: I suspect it will take a 9.3 A great choice but with two 375's,well, you know...... I agree on the 7x57,but was sorta leaning 280 myself

Much as I luv the old 7x57,I could not see it with the 280 sorta dangling out there.......gimme capacity and some more speed, when I can get it and keep things comfy at the same time

I would agree with Labsnelk on the bourbon thing.....

Bob,
What about straightening up the case and the shoulder and reaming your Kreiger 7 x 57 AI?? I did some research on that cartridge and with a 24" tube and a 9 Twist even a 150 is pretty impressive with 7828 or 4831 or RE22 behind it and a 140 as I remember was around 3100 in some of the loads guys posted on various web sites.


Dave

I love my 7x57. It is custom job with a SS shilen fluted barrel on a 1895 mauser, timney trigger, and a nice old Burris 2-8 x 32 on top. It shoots many loads very well and my go to load is 140gr TSX. Be the last rifle I ever sell.

SU35,
I understand where your coming form and I agree with you, and the 280 IMP is more powerful than the 7x57. I see the 7x57 as a mild recoiling light rifle to compare with the 243, 7-08, 257 Robts etc. I also believe the 7x57 is the "lightest" caliber that I would hunt elephant with..I have seen it used on elephant and it was impressive, thus my love for the 7x57.

If I were to make a comparison to the 280 IMP, then I would have to use the same case with the 270 or 30-06 or even the 7 magnums..The 280 Imp is an excellent choice, no argument there.

The initial post was a comparison to the .284 and in which case in a bolt rifle I would opt for the 7x75 as I am not overly fond of rebated cases and the .284 may be moribound in the first place.

Mt. Hunter,
With my 7x57, with its 06 magazine box, and long throat so that I can seat my bullets out I can get 2650 FPS with a 175 gr. bullet, 2916 FPS with a 160, 3000 plus with a 140 gr. I do this only with H414 powder.. You CANNOT get this in a 7-08, no way, no how..I have tried...All my listed velocities are 10 shot averages with the high and low taken out..Each case was fired a minimum of 10 times to test brass life...I don't think that indicates I stepped on anything other than your opine perhaps, and if so, then I apoligise for that...

Granted with factory ammo, the 7-08 is loaded to better balistics albiet at higher pressures because of the number of old 95 and 96 Mausers out there.

From a handloaders point of view the facts are the 7x57 will out perform the 7-08 because the case is large enough to handle the heavy bullets without protruding into the powder space. The 7-08 cannot do this...This is btw very common knowledge..

Ray is absolutely right about the 7x57 and 7mm-08. I have fooled with enough of each to know that the 7x57 will beat the 7mm-08 in terms of velocity by a noticeable margin. The main reason some target shooters don't use the 7x57 is that chamber/throat dimensions have been all over the place for 117 years now, a problem that doesn't exist with a 7mm-08. But a carefully chambered custom 7x57 will shoot just as accurately as a 7mm-08. I know this because I have had a couple built.

I would also like to comment that while I had my own fling with the .280 AI, I eventually came to the conclusion that it's essentially a rifle loony's version of the .30-06. The velocities possible with similar bullet weights are just about the same (with the advantage going to the .30-06) and while the 7mm bullets have a slight ballistic advantage at really long range, so what? So I eventually sold my .280 AI and bought essentially the same rifle in .30-06. It does the same things, and even a few the .280 AI doesn't.

I realize some rifle loonies will dispute this, with all sorts of minutiae that doesn't make a bit of difference in the real world. But that's their job as a True Believer.

I think that 7mm cartridges really shine with bullets of 140 grains on deer to elk sized critters. The 280 AI will give us around 3150-3200fps with these 140 grain bullets with a 24 inch barrel

I can't think of anything that I can load in a 30-06 that will shoot as flat or buck the wind as well. I can get the closest with a 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet at around 3100 fps.

But it will kick a little more than the 280AI,and it will not shoot as flat or buck the wind as well or deliver as much energy to the target. It will be close in the real world,but every performance advantage goes to the 280AI when we compare the 7mm 140 grain bullet to the 30-06 with a 150.

If a guy wants every little advantage,the 280 AI is just a little more loony friendly.

I have a 280AI and some 30-06's, and I feel strongly both ways, like any real loony should!


Steve

That is funny!

SU35 I would favor the 7x57 because so many different powders will work well approaching maximum velocities that the odds of some of them producing great groups could be high. And when comparing these two rounds velocity would not be the main priority anyway or you would be looking at something like a 7 mag.

If you ever owned and 284 Win
-you probably still have it,
-you realize there is minimal "need" for anything else,
-you have seriously considered or owned a 284 wildcat.

If you never owned a 284 win
-you probably think/have thought you should get one
-and you are right.

The great part of this issue is that in this country (at least for now) you can own any 7mm you wish---and then chip in your input on threads like this one. Gotta love it.

jmho
Tim

So what? You should state the 7X57 only beats the 7-08 when the 7X57 is chambered in a long action. In a short action, the 7-08 stays right with the 7X57 using 120 & 140s, the 7X57 will be slightly ahead in bullets 150gr+. According to Ramshot's data and another poster on here, Hunter powder will drive a 160gr well over 2700fpsMV via 7-08. In the field, no game will know the difference.



Nope. The target crowd developed the 7-08 by easily necking down their already popular 308s and simply re-barreling their competition rifles and handguns. Remington saw the light and marketed it. Not only is 7-08 brass more readily available on dealer's shelves, it can easily be made from 308Win brass including match grade brass such as Lapua or Fed Gold. The 7X57 was left out in the cold and mainly hangs on as a nostalgia cartridge. Hunters and target shooters choose the 7-08 over the 7x57 as it's far more popular and for good reason.

Far more factory ammo offerings exist for the 7-08 and it's loaded to it's potential unlike the 7x57. For the handloader, far more brass options exist on the dealer shelves today.

The 7X57, a nostalgic bastard length cartridge who's day in the sun is long over. The 7-08 is the better choice for most hunters and target shooters than the 7X57.

A True Believer,

MtnHtr

ruraldoc,

Thanks for listing the .280 AI minutiae! I was hoping somebody would.

I did a little figgerin', using Nosler Ballistic Tips (140 in .280 and 150 in .30-06) at 3200 and 3100 fps respectively.
You're absolutely right, of course. Sight both in 2" high at 100 yards and the .280/140 will be 12.2 inches down at 400 yards, the .30-06/150 15.6 inches down, a difference of 3.6 inches.

I didn't look up wind drift, but assume the difference would be about the same.

Energy at 400 yards is 1805 for the .280/140 and 1716 for the .30-06 150.

However, we also have the bullet diameter factor to consider, with the '06 holding a 17.7% advantage there. I also doubt with the appropriate bullet there would be much difference in penetration.

I also ran the numbers on recoil and found (according to my own formula, which includes the "rocket effect" of muzzle-exiting gas in a smaller bore, that the .30-06 load actually kicks a little less, 20.7 foot-pounds to 22.7 for the .280 AI. Even with more traditional formulas it's pretty much a tie. This is also what my shoulder tells me.

Also, I don't find a few inches in trajectory all that important. Even with the loafing old 180-grain load (which I would prefer on elk) the .30-06 is pretty easy to hit elk-sized game in the right place out to 450 yards, even though the trajectory is steeper. I have done this a number of times with a plain plex-type reticle, not even a modern multi-point. So I don't find the minutiae of trajectory all that much a factor, especially these days with laser rangefinders--or even a good ranging reticle.

I have yet to find a .280 AI load that is as useful at closer ranges on really big game as a 200-grain Nosler Partition at 2650 or a 220-240 grain roundnose at 2300-2500.

Then again, even though I gave up the .280 AI, I still have a 7mm SAUM, which is the same thing. So I am still a rifle loony, though these days more interested in the rifles themselves than ballistic minutiae.

Dave: Good idea, but I suspect I would end up with a 280....which is not a bad place to be

I am really not much for wildcatting,even though I understand why some folks luv it.

If I didn't like my 270 so much I would be giving the 280 (or 7mm RM) a hard look.

When the 7mm-08 was first announced, I liked the sound of it so I ordered a reamer right away. I didn't get around to making one for myself until 1988. I built it as a pretty typical hunting rifle. It performed real well but didn't produce the velocities I had gotten out of my 7x57 target rifle 13 years previously.
I say the rifle is the important thing but I get as hung up on cartridges as anyone (Have I mentioned my affair with the 30/40 Krag? I even built a heavy Varmint BR rifle in that caliber!). So, when I acquired a pretty nice 1951 Winchester M70 action, I agonized for some time over what to make. I decided to go with a 7mm but was undecided between the 7x57 and the 280. So much so that I got dies for both in anticipation. The decision wasn't actually made until I was well into the job of fitting the barrel. When I opened the drawer of medium reamers, the 280 was the first 7mm I focused on so I chambered for it.
After the barrel was on, I was a little bummed out because I now had a set of 7x57 dies and no rifle. Luckily, I traded into a pretty decent model 54 Winchester which will make a nice 7x57. At the rate I'm working on them, I should have the 7x57 ready to go in about 2 years! GD

Bill, you're a gun nut of the highest order!

I just wish you lived on the Montana side of the US/CA border so I could have you do work for me!

GD,

You and I are of like minds, almost too loony (if there is such a thing).

I have a .30-40 Krag double rifle. It is just the latest in several .30-40's, including a High Wall and a couple of original Krags. It's an over-under, built on a 20-gauge Ruger Red Label frame, with a quarter-rib with detachable rings for the scope (in this case a K3 Weaver). Of course it also has open sights, and also has the original 20-gauge barrels and their forend.

I have just about got it regulated now. I have no idea who made it, nor does the buy I got it from, but whoever it was did a good job....

Now that's what I call looney! LOL!

Yep,

The 30-06 beats most any 7mm in the thick stuff in my opinion too,that's why I still hunt in the woods with a 30-06 a good bit.

When you get that Ruger Double in 30-40 regulated with and without the scope and get a couple of hundred rounds loaded up,I want it if you get tired of it.

Loonism has no bounds.

Actually, I doubt if I'll ever sell it, since it was a gift from a friend. He had tried to sell it for a while and failed, and when I asked about it while visiting one day, he said here, take it!

But I'll keep you in mind....

PM sent regarding the 'smith who might have built it.

When WBR, Sr., was alive, Ruger used to out-source some of WBR, Sr.'s, private projects and 1 of those private projects was to investigate the viability of building O/U rifles and combination guns on the Red Label platform. I have heard of a few of these being made in 30-40 Krag by a well-known, but small volume, NH 'smith who worked on some of WBR, Sr.'s, private projects.

Jeff

Everything was going along just fine, Mt. Hunter went over the top in gooofy, The arguments began, then Mule Deer had to bring up the 30-06 and that killed the dumb thread!

How can anyone challange the 30-06 unless they are from Mars, it dilutes all aguements, voids all calibers up to the .375 H&H..Having observed and shot rock chucks to Cape Buffalo with it, Seen a couple of Lions shot with it, seen elephant shot with it and one Hippo, half a dozen 2000 lb. Eland, and inasmuch as every Ph in africa shot their first Buff, Lion and Elephant with it, it pretty much voids any question as to who is the queen of calibers, other than it is so good its boring to some...

Give me an 06 with a 180 and 200 gr. Noslers, a GS Customs or Northfork flat nose solid, and I will hunt the world with it, and do just fine.

Speaking of the 30-40 Krag, I played with a WR double in that caliber last year..It was not my gun...I fell in love with that little jewell..I would love to have one..

It is a dumb thread and I first posted it as a joke.
But since then have picked out some nuggets to my liking.

I hate 06's btw, to practical, to efficient, and to good.

Boring!

The 30-06 and 7X57 is all I own now! I can't imagine needing anything else...... Of course, I did not rule out "wanting" something else... I am mighty intrigued by the 9.3X62!

Ray,

This thread went downhill when you posted "I might add I can make a 7x57 shoot circles around a 7-08, with any bullet" when the 7-08 was not even a part of the discussion?????

Your disdain for 308 based cartridges and short action bolt guns is in full display here.

FWIW, there was a 7-08 to 7X57 Comparision thread a little over a year ago where MD stated: "Even the "anemic" 7x57 factory loads chronographed within 50 fps or so of 7mm-08 factory loads, and in handloads the diffence is even less." So what happened in the last year? Now it has changed to "the 7x57 will beat the 7mm-08 in terms of velocity by a noticeable margin ?"

The only thing this thread has proved is alot of nostalgic 7X57 fans frequent this site.

MtnHtr

I was a shooter and hunter when the .284 Win was introduced in Winchesters lever and semi-auto rifles to match the .270 Win. I was using 6.5X55 and .30-'06 bolt guns, so I didn't think I needed a .270 alternative. Soon, everybody and his aardvark was touting his or her latest wildcat on the case: I think G&A at that time developed at least one cartridge on each bore size from .22 to .35. I was following the Brit African cartridges and rifles, so I was not keen with the rebated case.

The next addition to the stable was a bolt 7mm RM, which seemed to me to be more of whatever good thing the .284 was trying to be. Perhaps if there were more short action rifles around then I would have been more tempted. As it was I got into the Mauser rifles and the 7X57 pretty easily.

Fast forward to today and I am more tempted by the 7 SAUM and 7WSM or even the .270 WSM than either the .284 Win or the 7X57, especially in my Hawkeye .300 RCM. A 6.5 or 7 RCM would be really cool in that platform. So cool in fact if Ruger doesn't introduce the 6.5 RCM I will be doing a 6.5 Rem Mag on one instead.

jim

Geez, as Ray suggested I tried to kill this silly thread but evidently it needs a house to fall on it to become, like the Wicked Witch of the West, really, most sincerely dead.

Ding,dong the thread is dead,the silly thread is dead.

If I only had a brain....

Now THAT'S funny!

The only thing more accurate is the man with the finger!

...There is absolutely no way a short action cartridge can match the solid killing power of a long action length cartridge. Think about it, a short action cartridge has farther to go, just by virtue of being shorter to begin with!

...Thought I'd add some solid ballistic science, and knowledge, to the thread.

Can't be over till the fat lady sings.

Mtnhunter said, "The 7X57, a nostalgic bastard length cartridge who's day in the sun is long over. The 7-08 is the better choice for most hunters and target shooters than the 7X57."

I guess that makes it's siblings, the 6MM Remington and .257 Robts. bastard rounds as well?

He also said, "Ray,

This thread went downhill when you posted "I might add I can make a 7x57 shoot circles around a 7-08, with any bullet" when the 7-08 was not even a part of the discussion?????"

I don't think Ray brought up the 7-08 first. Someone else did, I think. I've seen Ray's description of his 7x57 and he does loading to a much higher level than most because of a decent amount of freebore, if I understood his description correctly
I do have a 7x57, a .280 Rem. and 7Mm Rem. mag., but the 7x57 is the one that usually goes to the party with me. It's he lightest in weight and I'm too old fat and lazy to carry the others any great distance.
Paul B.

olhippie,

Let me bring up a real point of minutiae. Shorter cartridges do have one slight advantage: If used in an equal overl barrel length they have more bore length, which provides slightly more velocity.

For instance, the 7mm-08 case is 2.035" long, while the 7x57 case is 2.235" long. This means a bullet from the 7mm-08 travels 2/10ths of an inch farther in, say, a 22" barrel.

If we accept that, on average, each inch of extra barrel length provides 25-30 fps more velocity, then this extra 2/10ths of an inch provides an extra 5-6 fps.

Amen. JB, you pronounced this inane thread offically dead sometime back. Now that 5 or 6 maybe fps ought to be the last shovelfull we have to sprinkle on its tomb. Thanks,

Wayne

Mt. Hunter is taking all this way to seriously so I suggest that we agree to disagree or put up big bucks and make it a bet! I also have my horse tied out back to make a quick getaway..I'm off an running! Hi O Silver away.