Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 7x57 verses the 284 Win

Ray,

Maybe you should reread my post.

I addressed you respectfully, sir.


I agree we are entitled to our opinions.

Here's mine.

I would much prefer a 280 IMP over a 7x57 in long action.

Jeff,

I have one of the M700s marked 7mm-06 Remington,it is a M700 Classic that was used at the shot show the year that Remington decided to reintroduce the 280 with a whole new name.

Mr pjf has a 70s vintage Ruger M77 in 284 of which he is justifiably quite proud. I have an earlier vintage Flat bolt Ruger M77 in 284 myself.

Both the Remington and the Ruger have 22 inch barrels and they weigh the same on my postal scale,but the Ruger is a few millimenters shorter in overall length. They are pretty much identical in terms of how they feel and handle in the field.

I also have a Remington Mountain Rifle in 280 from the first year they were produced,it weighs a good half pound less than the short action Ruger in 284.

The capabilities of the 7x57,284,and 280 are pretty much interchangable. I would not consider rechambering any rifle that I own in any of the three to any of the others.

Even if it's a practical conversion,it's still silly. I have a lovely Mannlicher stocked Brno 22 in 7x57,I would deserve a good slapin' if I rechambered it to 280 or 280 AI,and they will fit in the action.

But if I ever decide to get started in "F Troop Competition"......

Just shoot me.

labsandelk,

RCBS still makes X-Dies in certain chamberings.

To tell the truth, I tried 'em in .223 and .30-06 when they first came out and never could see much difference. But some people apparently have had better results.

...Fine cartridges all of them (284, 7/08, 270,280 &280AI). My prejudices lead me to favor the 284 and ultra light short action rifles. I know that it is often said that feeding problems hang around the front door of the 284, but in thirty one years of service my Remington 600 barreled in 284 has yet to give me a failure to feed. I guess it has more to do with proper cobbling of the magazine feed rails, etc. than with incurable obstinacy.

How about a Mexican SR '98 in 7x57... the 'original' short action, and all one could ever need... whether you like long actions, short actions, ultra light actions, magnum actions, whatever.

I have a 257 AI that I built on a VZ24 so it could just as easily have been a 25'06 and avoided feed issues, giving up about the same velocity if not a bit more. Truth is, it was my first semi-custom job, and I'd always loved the cartridge.

I just like different stuff, personally, and enjoy the process of working up loads and such. These conversations are cool, and I can't drink so the single malt, as wonderful as it tastes, isn't where I'll put my resources.

A three rifle battery of the 22 lr, 7x57 (or da schpringfield), and 375 H&H... they'll spoil even the most loony of the loony end the 'need' rationale... but who ever said anything about need?

Now that is laughable at best! Ray was doing great until he stepped in a cowpie!

So why did the silhouette competition crowd shun the 7X57 in favor of the 7-08?

MtnHtr

OK guys,after all this banter I need advice...I have a chance to pick up a lovely 1949-1950 era single broach FN with Waldron metal,bolt handle,safety,bottom metal etc.

I have a #2 9 twist Krieger in the safe...

It can't be a 280 AI because it will not feed from the action(it's been tried) and I am not going to hack up this lovely old action so that it does.

What do I chamber it for??????




Ingwe: I do not discriminate....the bourbon is just fine!



Lastly, I think SU started this thread to have a debate regarding a comparison of these rounds for hunting and rifles suitable to the task,although he was not specific; what possible relevance this could have to 1000 yard bench rest matches is beyond me.

The world I live in is strictly a bolt action world when it comes to center fire rifles.

I do own a presentation grade 99 Savage in .308 but only because it was left to me by my father several years ago.

When it comes to bolt rifles, I really don't consider the difference between the long action and short action to be a significant thing but will go with the short action if I don't have to give up much to use one. The .284 is one of those cartridges that allows this.

That said, I haven't seen a box of .284 ammo in a gun shop in twenty years but 7 X 57 ammo is available in many places.

Because I'm a die hard reloader that too is a minor point.

The big difference is that I can't ream the .284 chamber to .280 Remington but I can ream the 7 X 57 chamber.....this makes it an easy decision!

Bob, I'll never understand the need for the 7x57 round outside of
a romantic nostalgia of yesteryear.

And just maybe that is what your FN action needs along with a fine wood stock and deep blue.


Better yet, will it feed the 9x62?

Gentlemen
It seems more relevant to discuss the merits of Blantons Bourbon verses Oban Scotch

SU: I suspect it will take a 9.3 A great choice but with two 375's,well, you know...... I agree on the 7x57,but was sorta leaning 280 myself

Much as I luv the old 7x57,I could not see it with the 280 sorta dangling out there.......gimme capacity and some more speed, when I can get it and keep things comfy at the same time

I would agree with Labsnelk on the bourbon thing.....

Bob,
What about straightening up the case and the shoulder and reaming your Kreiger 7 x 57 AI?? I did some research on that cartridge and with a 24" tube and a 9 Twist even a 150 is pretty impressive with 7828 or 4831 or RE22 behind it and a 140 as I remember was around 3100 in some of the loads guys posted on various web sites.


Dave

I love my 7x57. It is custom job with a SS shilen fluted barrel on a 1895 mauser, timney trigger, and a nice old Burris 2-8 x 32 on top. It shoots many loads very well and my go to load is 140gr TSX. Be the last rifle I ever sell.

SU35,
I understand where your coming form and I agree with you, and the 280 IMP is more powerful than the 7x57. I see the 7x57 as a mild recoiling light rifle to compare with the 243, 7-08, 257 Robts etc. I also believe the 7x57 is the "lightest" caliber that I would hunt elephant with..I have seen it used on elephant and it was impressive, thus my love for the 7x57.

If I were to make a comparison to the 280 IMP, then I would have to use the same case with the 270 or 30-06 or even the 7 magnums..The 280 Imp is an excellent choice, no argument there.

The initial post was a comparison to the .284 and in which case in a bolt rifle I would opt for the 7x75 as I am not overly fond of rebated cases and the .284 may be moribound in the first place.

Mt. Hunter,
With my 7x57, with its 06 magazine box, and long throat so that I can seat my bullets out I can get 2650 FPS with a 175 gr. bullet, 2916 FPS with a 160, 3000 plus with a 140 gr. I do this only with H414 powder.. You CANNOT get this in a 7-08, no way, no how..I have tried...All my listed velocities are 10 shot averages with the high and low taken out..Each case was fired a minimum of 10 times to test brass life...I don't think that indicates I stepped on anything other than your opine perhaps, and if so, then I apoligise for that...

Granted with factory ammo, the 7-08 is loaded to better balistics albiet at higher pressures because of the number of old 95 and 96 Mausers out there.

From a handloaders point of view the facts are the 7x57 will out perform the 7-08 because the case is large enough to handle the heavy bullets without protruding into the powder space. The 7-08 cannot do this...This is btw very common knowledge..

Ray is absolutely right about the 7x57 and 7mm-08. I have fooled with enough of each to know that the 7x57 will beat the 7mm-08 in terms of velocity by a noticeable margin. The main reason some target shooters don't use the 7x57 is that chamber/throat dimensions have been all over the place for 117 years now, a problem that doesn't exist with a 7mm-08. But a carefully chambered custom 7x57 will shoot just as accurately as a 7mm-08. I know this because I have had a couple built.

I would also like to comment that while I had my own fling with the .280 AI, I eventually came to the conclusion that it's essentially a rifle loony's version of the .30-06. The velocities possible with similar bullet weights are just about the same (with the advantage going to the .30-06) and while the 7mm bullets have a slight ballistic advantage at really long range, so what? So I eventually sold my .280 AI and bought essentially the same rifle in .30-06. It does the same things, and even a few the .280 AI doesn't.

I realize some rifle loonies will dispute this, with all sorts of minutiae that doesn't make a bit of difference in the real world. But that's their job as a True Believer.

I think that 7mm cartridges really shine with bullets of 140 grains on deer to elk sized critters. The 280 AI will give us around 3150-3200fps with these 140 grain bullets with a 24 inch barrel

I can't think of anything that I can load in a 30-06 that will shoot as flat or buck the wind as well. I can get the closest with a 30-06 with a 150 grain bullet at around 3100 fps.

But it will kick a little more than the 280AI,and it will not shoot as flat or buck the wind as well or deliver as much energy to the target. It will be close in the real world,but every performance advantage goes to the 280AI when we compare the 7mm 140 grain bullet to the 30-06 with a 150.

If a guy wants every little advantage,the 280 AI is just a little more loony friendly.

I have a 280AI and some 30-06's, and I feel strongly both ways, like any real loony should!


Steve

That is funny!

SU35 I would favor the 7x57 because so many different powders will work well approaching maximum velocities that the odds of some of them producing great groups could be high. And when comparing these two rounds velocity would not be the main priority anyway or you would be looking at something like a 7 mag.

If you ever owned and 284 Win
-you probably still have it,
-you realize there is minimal "need" for anything else,
-you have seriously considered or owned a 284 wildcat.

If you never owned a 284 win
-you probably think/have thought you should get one
-and you are right.

The great part of this issue is that in this country (at least for now) you can own any 7mm you wish---and then chip in your input on threads like this one. Gotta love it.

jmho
Tim

So what? You should state the 7X57 only beats the 7-08 when the 7X57 is chambered in a long action. In a short action, the 7-08 stays right with the 7X57 using 120 & 140s, the 7X57 will be slightly ahead in bullets 150gr+. According to Ramshot's data and another poster on here, Hunter powder will drive a 160gr well over 2700fpsMV via 7-08. In the field, no game will know the difference.



Nope. The target crowd developed the 7-08 by easily necking down their already popular 308s and simply re-barreling their competition rifles and handguns. Remington saw the light and marketed it. Not only is 7-08 brass more readily available on dealer's shelves, it can easily be made from 308Win brass including match grade brass such as Lapua or Fed Gold. The 7X57 was left out in the cold and mainly hangs on as a nostalgia cartridge. Hunters and target shooters choose the 7-08 over the 7x57 as it's far more popular and for good reason.

Far more factory ammo offerings exist for the 7-08 and it's loaded to it's potential unlike the 7x57. For the handloader, far more brass options exist on the dealer shelves today.

The 7X57, a nostalgic bastard length cartridge who's day in the sun is long over. The 7-08 is the better choice for most hunters and target shooters than the 7X57.

A True Believer,

MtnHtr