Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 7x57 verses the 284 Win

ruraldoc,

Thanks for listing the .280 AI minutiae! I was hoping somebody would.

I did a little figgerin', using Nosler Ballistic Tips (140 in .280 and 150 in .30-06) at 3200 and 3100 fps respectively.
You're absolutely right, of course. Sight both in 2" high at 100 yards and the .280/140 will be 12.2 inches down at 400 yards, the .30-06/150 15.6 inches down, a difference of 3.6 inches.

I didn't look up wind drift, but assume the difference would be about the same.

Energy at 400 yards is 1805 for the .280/140 and 1716 for the .30-06 150.

However, we also have the bullet diameter factor to consider, with the '06 holding a 17.7% advantage there. I also doubt with the appropriate bullet there would be much difference in penetration.

I also ran the numbers on recoil and found (according to my own formula, which includes the "rocket effect" of muzzle-exiting gas in a smaller bore, that the .30-06 load actually kicks a little less, 20.7 foot-pounds to 22.7 for the .280 AI. Even with more traditional formulas it's pretty much a tie. This is also what my shoulder tells me.

Also, I don't find a few inches in trajectory all that important. Even with the loafing old 180-grain load (which I would prefer on elk) the .30-06 is pretty easy to hit elk-sized game in the right place out to 450 yards, even though the trajectory is steeper. I have done this a number of times with a plain plex-type reticle, not even a modern multi-point. So I don't find the minutiae of trajectory all that much a factor, especially these days with laser rangefinders--or even a good ranging reticle.

I have yet to find a .280 AI load that is as useful at closer ranges on really big game as a 200-grain Nosler Partition at 2650 or a 220-240 grain roundnose at 2300-2500.

Then again, even though I gave up the .280 AI, I still have a 7mm SAUM, which is the same thing. So I am still a rifle loony, though these days more interested in the rifles themselves than ballistic minutiae.

Dave: Good idea, but I suspect I would end up with a 280....which is not a bad place to be

I am really not much for wildcatting,even though I understand why some folks luv it.

If I didn't like my 270 so much I would be giving the 280 (or 7mm RM) a hard look.

When the 7mm-08 was first announced, I liked the sound of it so I ordered a reamer right away. I didn't get around to making one for myself until 1988. I built it as a pretty typical hunting rifle. It performed real well but didn't produce the velocities I had gotten out of my 7x57 target rifle 13 years previously.
I say the rifle is the important thing but I get as hung up on cartridges as anyone (Have I mentioned my affair with the 30/40 Krag? I even built a heavy Varmint BR rifle in that caliber!). So, when I acquired a pretty nice 1951 Winchester M70 action, I agonized for some time over what to make. I decided to go with a 7mm but was undecided between the 7x57 and the 280. So much so that I got dies for both in anticipation. The decision wasn't actually made until I was well into the job of fitting the barrel. When I opened the drawer of medium reamers, the 280 was the first 7mm I focused on so I chambered for it.
After the barrel was on, I was a little bummed out because I now had a set of 7x57 dies and no rifle. Luckily, I traded into a pretty decent model 54 Winchester which will make a nice 7x57. At the rate I'm working on them, I should have the 7x57 ready to go in about 2 years! GD

Bill, you're a gun nut of the highest order!

I just wish you lived on the Montana side of the US/CA border so I could have you do work for me!

GD,

You and I are of like minds, almost too loony (if there is such a thing).

I have a .30-40 Krag double rifle. It is just the latest in several .30-40's, including a High Wall and a couple of original Krags. It's an over-under, built on a 20-gauge Ruger Red Label frame, with a quarter-rib with detachable rings for the scope (in this case a K3 Weaver). Of course it also has open sights, and also has the original 20-gauge barrels and their forend.

I have just about got it regulated now. I have no idea who made it, nor does the buy I got it from, but whoever it was did a good job....

Now that's what I call looney! LOL!

Yep,

The 30-06 beats most any 7mm in the thick stuff in my opinion too,that's why I still hunt in the woods with a 30-06 a good bit.

When you get that Ruger Double in 30-40 regulated with and without the scope and get a couple of hundred rounds loaded up,I want it if you get tired of it.

Loonism has no bounds.

Actually, I doubt if I'll ever sell it, since it was a gift from a friend. He had tried to sell it for a while and failed, and when I asked about it while visiting one day, he said here, take it!

But I'll keep you in mind....

PM sent regarding the 'smith who might have built it.

When WBR, Sr., was alive, Ruger used to out-source some of WBR, Sr.'s, private projects and 1 of those private projects was to investigate the viability of building O/U rifles and combination guns on the Red Label platform. I have heard of a few of these being made in 30-40 Krag by a well-known, but small volume, NH 'smith who worked on some of WBR, Sr.'s, private projects.

Jeff

Everything was going along just fine, Mt. Hunter went over the top in gooofy, The arguments began, then Mule Deer had to bring up the 30-06 and that killed the dumb thread!

How can anyone challange the 30-06 unless they are from Mars, it dilutes all aguements, voids all calibers up to the .375 H&H..Having observed and shot rock chucks to Cape Buffalo with it, Seen a couple of Lions shot with it, seen elephant shot with it and one Hippo, half a dozen 2000 lb. Eland, and inasmuch as every Ph in africa shot their first Buff, Lion and Elephant with it, it pretty much voids any question as to who is the queen of calibers, other than it is so good its boring to some...

Give me an 06 with a 180 and 200 gr. Noslers, a GS Customs or Northfork flat nose solid, and I will hunt the world with it, and do just fine.

Speaking of the 30-40 Krag, I played with a WR double in that caliber last year..It was not my gun...I fell in love with that little jewell..I would love to have one..

It is a dumb thread and I first posted it as a joke.
But since then have picked out some nuggets to my liking.

I hate 06's btw, to practical, to efficient, and to good.

Boring!

The 30-06 and 7X57 is all I own now! I can't imagine needing anything else...... Of course, I did not rule out "wanting" something else... I am mighty intrigued by the 9.3X62!

Ray,

This thread went downhill when you posted "I might add I can make a 7x57 shoot circles around a 7-08, with any bullet" when the 7-08 was not even a part of the discussion?????

Your disdain for 308 based cartridges and short action bolt guns is in full display here.

FWIW, there was a 7-08 to 7X57 Comparision thread a little over a year ago where MD stated: "Even the "anemic" 7x57 factory loads chronographed within 50 fps or so of 7mm-08 factory loads, and in handloads the diffence is even less." So what happened in the last year? Now it has changed to "the 7x57 will beat the 7mm-08 in terms of velocity by a noticeable margin ?"

The only thing this thread has proved is alot of nostalgic 7X57 fans frequent this site.

MtnHtr

I was a shooter and hunter when the .284 Win was introduced in Winchesters lever and semi-auto rifles to match the .270 Win. I was using 6.5X55 and .30-'06 bolt guns, so I didn't think I needed a .270 alternative. Soon, everybody and his aardvark was touting his or her latest wildcat on the case: I think G&A at that time developed at least one cartridge on each bore size from .22 to .35. I was following the Brit African cartridges and rifles, so I was not keen with the rebated case.

The next addition to the stable was a bolt 7mm RM, which seemed to me to be more of whatever good thing the .284 was trying to be. Perhaps if there were more short action rifles around then I would have been more tempted. As it was I got into the Mauser rifles and the 7X57 pretty easily.

Fast forward to today and I am more tempted by the 7 SAUM and 7WSM or even the .270 WSM than either the .284 Win or the 7X57, especially in my Hawkeye .300 RCM. A 6.5 or 7 RCM would be really cool in that platform. So cool in fact if Ruger doesn't introduce the 6.5 RCM I will be doing a 6.5 Rem Mag on one instead.

jim

Geez, as Ray suggested I tried to kill this silly thread but evidently it needs a house to fall on it to become, like the Wicked Witch of the West, really, most sincerely dead.

Ding,dong the thread is dead,the silly thread is dead.

If I only had a brain....

Now THAT'S funny!

The only thing more accurate is the man with the finger!

...There is absolutely no way a short action cartridge can match the solid killing power of a long action length cartridge. Think about it, a short action cartridge has farther to go, just by virtue of being shorter to begin with!

...Thought I'd add some solid ballistic science, and knowledge, to the thread.