Growing up, I was big into guns, and while there are many writers who have stuck with me through the decades, none stick with me quite like Ross Seyfried. As others have said on this forum, he has an ability to make me want firearms I have no business wanting. If the guy can write a writeup of a Taurus Raging Hornet and make me want one, he must have a gift!

I know he may or may not be difficult to work with, and may or may not be full of himself, but of all the gunwriters out there, he is the one I feel most responsible for my development as a shooter. Something about him and his style imprinted on me when I was an adolescent in the late 80s, and it has stuck with me well into my early 30s where I sit now.

Again, there are many very competent writers out there, but none that seem to have quite the breadth of experience as Ross (IPSC world champion, white hunter, double gun guy, elk guide, Elmer Keith's boy, etc.) and I feel compelled to study him in as great a detail as possible. Now that I have more time and money than I used to, I think the first step for me is to assemble a complete collection / bibliography of all his known writings, and for that, I ask your help. Below are what I know he has written, and if you know of anything else, I would greatly appreciate your input. I already hold many back issues of his writings, and ultimately if this leads to a complete collection/bibliography, or even a biography, I would be happy to share it with you if you provide your email or contact information. I know there are rumors that he has been working on an autobiography, which would diminish the need for a biographer, but nevertheless, I want to learn what I can.

This is something I have been thinking about for years, and I have the time and the inclination to move forward now. If you have any additional publications or more specific begin/end dates for his publications, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your help and here goes:

-G&A Shooter's In-Sight column and monthly features, early 80s to late 90s.

-Handloader, Rifle, and Successful Hunter from late 90s to mid 2000s

-DGJ from inception to current

-Gray's Sporting Journal, unknown period?

-NRA publications, unknown period? mid 2000s on? Which publications besides the shooter's rights one?

-Outdoor life, unknown period? Mid to late 2000s?

-No known books? Wrote intro to Hamilton Bowen's The Custom Revolver.


It's funny, a common theme if you read threads about him over the last decade is that "his moves and their reasons are well documented on previous threads," but if you read the previous threads, there is a great detail of speculation and very few facts. It's not entirely clear to me why he left G&A, why he left Wolfe, etc. etc., so any information BASED IN CLEAR FACT would be useful to me. I know he is selling Elk Song right now, so if you have any FACTUAL gossip about his comings and goings even today, I would be interested in hearing it on this thread too. If there is any non-public info you could share, feel free to PM me! I want to document what I can, while I can. I will be as discreet as necessary.


I admit my quest is somewhat quixotic, but pretty much everything else interesting has already been done, so this is at the top of my hobbyist to-do list!

Thanks!
Alabamagene

Also, I know he wrote some articles for Honda about ATVs/conservation (mutually exclusive??).

My understanding is he wanted to "write" about guns, and not do quasi gun advertisements shrouded as gun mag articles. He was a writer/shooter, and his philosophy was people wanted to read about diverse topics, and not just about what the editors felt they wanted to read about.

Dan

For sure one of the best if not the best of all modern US outdoor writers. A guy "who shots straight and speaks the truth" (as Cooper used to said). Has his own ideas which he defends well, and are 95% right. For sure the most knowledgable american writer on european firearm, ammo and their using.

Miss his writing too.

Dom

His writings in G&A had a huge impact on me as well. I probably would not be a gun looney if it were not for reading the things that he wrote about.

Ross Seyfried has long been one of my favorite gun writers. I do miss his well done articles in the magazines I read. I don't make any claim to know the man. However, I did speak to him once on the phone about an elk hunt on his ranch. He impressed me during that conversation.

If he is a bit full of himself, that's fine with me. When you're good, you're good. There's a big difference between confidence and condescending. He has been more than courteous with me on the phone, and even invited me to stop in for a visit, which I would really love to do. Would love to see his gun cabinets and even go elk hunting with him (if I can keep up).

In today's atmosphere of PC and moral equivalence a lot of people feel threatened by anyone who's sure of himself and certain in his beliefs. Hence the controversial aspect of writers like Cooper, Keith and Ross. They wrote about things they had experienced and knew well, and therefore could draw logical conclusions.

I think Dan hit it above as to why Ross left a certain magazine. They forced him to go (at very short notice) shoot a deer in Mexico with a Vanguard in 300 Roy. Huh??
Can you imagine anything less Seyfriedesque?

Ross is one of the very few people alive today that I would really like to meet and get to know. I wish he'd compile a book version of his writings.


Pete

"If he is a bit full of himself, that's fine with me. When you're good, you're good."

Unless you have an ego and believe in yourself, you probably won't amount to much.

I'm 52 and I've spent my lifetime finding a balance between healthy confidence, humility, and arrogance. Some people always interpret confidence as arrogance or being "forward" or some other negative. You just cannot please everyone. I'm more at ease in my own skin than I've ever been.

my understanding was that he had personality clashes with other writers above and beyond reasonable.....that said i do enjoy his writing and often buy DGJ cause of one of his articles......do also reread his articles in Rifle alot...

He openly criticised other writers in his articles at least once to my recollection. That probably didn't go over too well. One would think the editor could "smooth out" those rough spots in articles before publishing, but I don't know that. It would not surprise me if Ross wanted to write about what Ross wanted to write about regardless of what management wanted Ross to write about. That was fine with me. His articles were beyond the typical "infomercial" stuff we pay to read today. I let my subscriptions lapse for a long time because of that, but having nothing "gunny" to read was worse, so I went back to Wolfe. It also helped that JB went back.

on the editor thing.....depends.....were it my publication i would have BUT i also have no clue what was going on behind the scenes, Ross may have stated if his articles were to heavy handed edited that he would quit.....i dont know....

but he is a good writer and i will continue to buy mags with articles of his in them cause i do like the stuff he writes about just like i enjoy John and Phil and a few others....

I have enjoyed reading him over the years ever since he first appeared (I think) in G&A back when he was dominating the PPC game. As I remember it, no matter what he wrote about, it was well written. That said, some of his more arcane subjects seemed to dwell more on his eccentricities. I had a hard time finishing some of those.

Alabamagene:

I, too, grew up with Ross's writings as a major influence on my shooting. His first G&A article in the August '82 issue about the 1911 is still one of my favorites, and why I eventually had to own one. Then in '92 or '93 he wrote "My 20 years with the .44 Magnum" (when it was actually more like 25), and I had to buy a 4" S&W 29 with custom Herrett's stocks and a Milt Sparks holster just like his.

I wish his writing was more readily accessible, but the point is he wanted to write about what he wanted to write about, which is good for readers like us but not very appealing to advertisers. He could take the most obscure topics and make them interesting, like whacking a buffalo with a revolver, using a 10-gauge double as an all-around shotgun, building and shooting a Paradox revolver, shooting a target rifle at one mile, loading with paper-patched bullets or even casting soft nose bullets that behave like Nosler Partitions. Even though I never tried any of those things, I read and re-read the articles with great interest because they were so enjoyable to read.

If you don't have Elmer Keith's Gun Notes, Volumes I and II, there are some interesting references in Volume II to some of Elmer and Ross's experiments loading for big rifles, big shotguns, and various other things, as well as Elmer proudly announcing Ross's '81 IPSC world championship in his monthly column.

Every gun writer that has actually known him, whether they liked him or not, has acknowledged that the guy can really shoot, and can really shoot about anything.

Greg Perry

Seyfried once wrote about killing twelve doves with thirteen shots from one of his antique shotguns. He was a world champ pistol shot, and by all accounts, about as good as they come with a rifle. I'm not sure there are many in the world who could come close to that, and virtually zero in the gun writing world.

Ross is the kind of man most of us would like to meet on a mountain somewhere. If Mr. Barsness were there it would be a meeting of two of the best writers about hunting, shooting, and gunanalia who have blessed us with their work. If Ruark was there it would be a "full house."

Well, I would want Finn Aagaard there too... Good writer, and sure knew his stuff!

John

I ran into Ross hunting the Missouri Breaks of Montana about 20 years ago. What I witnessed and what he wrote about weren't quite the same...

Sounds like a good story?

Ross Seyfried is my favorite gun writer ... bar none. Too many writers cater to Joe Average who fires 2 shots a year out of a loss-leader '06 with the cheapest ammo and scope they can fine. Ross writes to a gun nut audience, maybe even a post-doc gun nut audience. The questions he explored for his articles often paralleled things I was trying to do myself at the same time like Ruger #1s and heavy cast bullets in revolvers and so on.

Some of the other guys wrote stuff that was ... useful. Ross writes stuff that I found INTERESTING. It's not the same thing.

Exactly!

I have very little interest in handguns, but I recall his article on his quest to develop a revolver-ammo combination that would shoot genuine MOA. It was interesting and actually suspenseful right to the end -- even to me!

The bastid also wrote a story on high end British rook rifles that will certainly cost me a lot of money if I ever see one for sale! Now, I need a high end rook rifle like a fish needs a bicycle, but his story was so dang interesting that I want one anyway!

John

It really is a good story, but not what Ross's fans would like to hear...

Why bring it up if you're not willing to at least share the gist of it? Saying, "I have a really good story but I'm not going to tell it" is a waste of time, effort and band-width.

I would expect that could be said about most writers.

The thing that draws me to Seyfried's writings is that he can make something that I have absolute zero interest in interesting. I have read some of his articles about some arcane firearm and immediately wanted one. He does have a way of writing that holds ones interest.

drover

*shrugs* i think Peter Capstick is a hell of a writer too but its likely some of his first person tales werent......given the history that is known with him at Wolfe im guessing your story wouldnt be a total surprise give its obvious Ross's ego is bigger than most, still think he is a fine writer and he writes bout stuff im interested in......take most of what most ppl say with a grain of salt, gun writers are no different....but doesnt mean i dont enjoy their writing....

allways enjoy Ross's writing, as he writes very well even about topics I personally not that interested in. magnum Man

Hey everyone, I really appreciate the responses. It seems like I am not alone in being interested in his status and legacy. Just a few notes:

Greg Perry-- My G&A collection is a little sparse in the early 80s and I'm missing a few issues. So you're pretty sure August 82 was his first feature article? I wonder if that's when his column started as well.

Shrapnel-- I really would be interested in any background you could provide on the Montana thing you mentioned. I am a RS fan, but I am interested in learning as much as I can, good and bad.

As far as the Elk Song sale:

http://www.landreport.com/2011/07/for-sale-elk-song/

I haven't seen any definitive explanation, but my hunch is that it's a sibling of his that is the troublesome family member. His family owned a Colorado ranch, which was sold and some or all of the proceeds were used to purchase Elk Song, I think. I bet that one or more siblings are agitating to get their money out of the real estate and into their pockets. I bet sharing his guiding income without any other farming income isn't enough to make them happy, when they have multi-millions tied up in the land.

Again, this is completely speculation but it seems the most plausible unless someone has some facts

Also Greg, I had no idea RS was mentioned in Keith's Gun Notes. I've always meant to get a copy of those, but I am putting vol II right on the top of my list.

Although quite a few of us at Wolfe had long standing issues with Ross - I think I can also safely say that we all respected his shooting and writing abilities.

I have known some other writers that worked with Ross at Guns and Ammo that didn't particularly care for what he wrote in regards to what he thought of the reader. I have no issues there, I just never saw anything that he was writing about that interested me enough to care.

As to the Missouri Breaks...

I was hunting the south side of Fort Peck with a friend of mine, we would come across the lake in the morning with a boat, then hunt south into the breaks. We had gotten as high as we could when I noticed one hunter in hunters orange and 2 others with him wearing just camo.

They were walking on the backbone of a ridge, skylining and moving down the ridge toward the bottom. I told Dave, I would bet it is 2 guides with one hunter. I asked him what he thought of the 3 fellows walking single file down the backbone. Dave figured they weren't hunting, as no one would travel like that if they were.

We watched them for some time from behind a Cedar just to see what would happen. They continued down to the bottom, sat down in plain view on a knob and appeared to be looking for deer. After a while, we decided to move on, we were well above them, just below some sandstone rims.

They stayed there for quite a while as we moved along the rims. I told Dave, "let's have some fun". So I took a shot into the sandstone cliff above me with my 25-06, then watched to see what they would do. They were looking all around to see where the shot came from and before too long spotted us sneaking along the base of the rims.

We continued on our way, shooting at rabbits and laughing at the neophytes in the bottom of the ravine. We covered quite a bit of real estate and they stayed in the bottom watching. We knew there probably wasn't any deer in the valley as they had just walked down the backbone of that ridge and we had been shooting rocks and rabbits.

Meanwhile they sat watching.

I Didn't have any idea who they were or what they were doing, but deer hunting didn't resemble their efforts.

When I got home I called a friend of mine that guided the breaks for Keith Atchison and told him about our encounter in what I thought would be a good remote area. He asked me what day in November that was and I told him. He then told me that it was Ross Seyfried who was guiding for him in the breaks. I asked him what he thought of his work and he just laughed, as they didn't get any deer. It wasn't all my fault.

Nate called me up about 6 months later and told me I had been mentioned in another hunting magazine, and I told him I hadn't done any such thing. He said listen to this, and he read out of Peterson's "Hunting" magazine, an account by Ross Seyfried of how he was guiding a hunter in the Missouri Breaks of Montana and that they were stalking a big Montana Muley buck, when gunshots rang out above them in the breaks. Further adding to the story, he said that there was another hunter above him shooting at another big Montana Muley buck.

In truth it was a rabbit, and he was no more stalking a big buck, than I was flying a helicopter. It also took some shooting before he put on his hunter orange, but he did put it on.

It isn't much of a story, it doesn't make Ross a bad guy, but I know for a fact he wasn't telling the truth.

Kirk,

i remember you telling me about this incident around about 20 years ago--but in your account here you left out a small detail, a detail that when you told me the story personally, had me laughing for several hours--and even years later, whenever I thought about it, I would have to laugh all over again--it wasn't anything bad or negative, it just added a little zest to the story...

i did enjoy his writings on both revolvers and coyote hunting though, and saved quite a few of the articles...

shrapnel,

That story says a lot more about you than Ross or anyone else. Then to flaunt such on a public forum. I wouldn't make a habit of acting like that in front of a hunter with a good rest. Not all would be so restrained.

Good point, I'm glad Ross didn't take his liberties with a well placed shot and dispatch us there and then. No matter what a person does, there is someone that knows better and isn't afraid to voice that opinion. I appreciate your help, I won't ever do that again.

As Hi Vel pointed out, that was about 20 years ago, there was more to the story and to try and tell everything to the greatest detail and keep the story short enough to get the drift, some aspects are less detailed.

I hope you can forgive me...

Well said.

Still, if I saw some guys who appeared to be hunting (whether or not they had any chance at all of success)(whether or not they appeared to have any talent) I can't conceive of blundering through the hunting area firing numerous shots at rocks and rabbits, just to ruin whatever hunting experience they were seeking. It goes against the grain to me. I hunt, whether it be for small or large game. If I'm small game hunting, and I observe a man in a tree bow hunting for deer, I do everything I can to both avoid his zone and not disturb the forest around him.

But as you've said, that was 20 years ago. I'm sure that we all have done things in the past that maturity or a change in attitude would be beyond us now.

Regards

Dan

I agree. Why try to [bleep] up another's hunt? Sounds like the fact they were in your hot spot had you pizzed?? Popping off a shot at some rocks, wow................

I've done plenty of dumb things but sure as hell wouldn't post them up to make another guy look bad?

I think that's plenty exhortation. Let's move on.

I once found an original Alex Henry Fahrquarson-design single for sale. I didn't have the duckets to buy it at the time but immediately thought of Ross, so I called him. He didn't buy it either but thanked me for the referral and chatted with me for a bit. Would like to meet the man.

Seyfried has done it again. I just finished reading the for sale ad for Elk Song ranch and if I had the money I would buy it in a heartbeat. The man has an amazing way with works, descriptive without being overly wordy or being pretensious.

drover

AlabamaGene:

Pretty sure it was the August '82 issue that contained his first feature article, cause editor Howard French wrote a sidebar biographical sketch with that first article. I don't think he actually started his own column until he essentially replaced Elmer Keith's column some time in '84.

Gun Notes II doesn't say a lot about Ross's personal life other than that he was a working cattle rancher, had a wife at that time, had met Elmer in the early 70's while guiding elk for Bob Thompson's outfit in Colorado, and would periodically come to Salmon and stay a week with Elmer. They experimented on such things as regulating the barrels of big nitro doubles with modern smokeless loads (including proof-firing into cords of firewood in Elmer's basement), buffering 10-gauge goose loads to try to achieve 100% patterns, and bench resting .375's and .458's for fun. Later he mentions Ross joining the U.S. IPSC shooting team and winning the '78 national championship and '81 world championship.

The above quote shows what REAL class in a man actually is.

I remember reading a '93 article in Hunting magazine wherein Ross shot a mule deer buck in the Breaks with a Dakota Model 10 in 7mm Brenneke. He described the location as being near the place where Lewis & Clark had a run-in with a grizzly bear. I remember him describing having to shoot off a cliff at nearly a straight-down angle and overshooting the buck on his first shot. I also remember him describing another hunter that was with him shooting a .375 with 300-grain bullets and being unable to connect with his deer. But I don't remember him saying anything about guiding other hunters. Perhaps I am referring to a different article, but I remember keeping that one for a long time because I thought Dakota Model 10's were cool.

Greg Perry

Sorry for the firestorm on Ross, but details left unsaid were:

We were dropped off in the morning at the bottom of a canyon we were to hunt and the boat wouldn't be back to pick us up until evening. We had to spend the whole day in this canyon. On the hike into the top of the canyon I had slipped on Bentonite, which is slicker that anything you will ever want to step in, fallen and banged my rifle.

You hope nothing is wrong and keep on hunting. When we got to the point where we saw the 3 hunters, we waited behind a cedar and watched them to see which direction they were going. We waited quite awhile and when they got to the bottom we knew we were going to stay high and hopefully end up south of them while they were low.

At this point I figured there weren't any mule deer bucks in our immediate vicinity and after the gun getting dropped, I did fire one round at the sandstone rock face above and beyond us and the rifle hadn't changed zero. They did notice us, but didn't move from the knob they were on in the bottom of the canyon.

I was not pissed off at seeing other hunters, as it is public land, disappointed, yes, but not pissed off. As we continued south we did jump a handful of cottontails which I love to hunt anyhow and I did shoot a couple.

Meanwhile the guys stayed on the knob in the bottom causing us to wonder why our presence hadn't made them move on. We did find that humorous, but saying we intentionally tried to screw up their hunting is wrong. If they were eating lunch or playing cribbage, I will never know, all I know is they stayed there the entire time we traversed the rim rocks at the top of the canyon.

They did eventually leave and we kept on hunting south, never crossing paths. They were not stalking a big mule deer buck, and they observed that we were not shooting at another big mule deer buck, but that is what got printed, nothing more, nothing less.

I enjoyed all the articles in G&A, especially the writing about custom knives ( a set of two knives at that time) and also various ones regarding the quality and need of good bullets.

Probably you "utes" don't remember the decades long JOC vs Keith feud.

Keith even said JOC tried to shoot him at the Olin farm annual gathering. That was in Gun Notes 1 or 2. I forget which.

Trust me, as a little published author, you have to have a pretty solid ego to even put pen to paper, not to mention with dealing with all the rejections before you actually get published.

J.K. Rowling got a dozen rejections on her first book unlil it was finally accepted by a small publisher on the advice of his EIGHT year old daughter.

Ross is a top drawer writer, and although I do a lot of SxS shotgun shooting, I buy DGJ for just one reason... his writings.

My experience on the Internet, ever since Al Gore invented it, is there are a few "bes" a few "wanna bes" and a lot of nice folks. Ross is both a "be" and nice.

yep Ross had to have done it the way he wrote and it didnt happen the way of shrapnel's story cause writers NEVER, EVER take artistic license in their writing....

i fully believe shrap but im also gonna keep reading Ross's articles in DGJ....

"I told Dave, "let's have some fun". So I took a shot into the sandstone cliff above me with my 25-06, then watched to see what they would do."

'We continued on our way, shooting at rabbits and laughing at the neophytes in the bottom of the ravine."

"but saying we intentionally tried to screw up their hunting is wrong."

Shrapnel, you wrote it. You have to own up to it.

Dan

I'm 76 and have been a pastor for 55 years. Still am. If I may say it with "humility"... YOU ARE RIGHT!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

So much great detail here... I will respond in more depth later. But real quick, another feud even I remember was a period, maybe in the early '90s, when Ross was having an in print dispute in G&A with Bob Milek. I believe it had to do with Bob advocating zeroing hunting rifles to MPBR and Ross advocating basically a 200 yard zero for most modern hunting rifles. I will have to research it a little more and I'll report back.

Ross made me want to do a lot of things as a shooter, but I have to credit Bob Milek for my predilection for insulated tan vests, plaid shirts, and giving the camera smug looks while standing next to shot-up targets with a Remington XP-100. He pretty much owned that niche!

Ross is the best writer of my generation in my opinion. I think I like his writings because he is not afraid to call someone out on their chit writer or not.

There were a few good writers for small caliber news and varmint hunter but they have seemed to have quit writing. Now we are stuck with LP breezy...

I really hate to see how bad the writers will be in a few more years. I am starting to think some have never shot a gun or reloaded a piece of brass.

Dink

AlabamaGene:

You are spot on with the Seyfried/Milek debate. However, that was set up by the editor as an intentional pro vs. con debate, and G&A did it with several other writers and topics, like Mike Venturino vs. Wiley Clapp on the usefulness/obsolescence of the .44 Special. it was not mean-spirited.

Greg Perry

Thanks Greg! Do you remember other debates like that? The editor back then was Red Bell, right? Was he a writer back in the day before he edited? I remember seeing his byline as editor for years, but don't recall him writing any features.

The Jeff Cooper/Bill Jordan debates of 1911 vs Revolver were some of the best in print.

Dan

Ross had about 15-20 articles in BLACKPOWDER HUNTING magazine put out by The International Blackpowder Hunting Association.

There was no publisher-inspired debate between Cooper and Jordan. I had the priviledge of being on an NRA committee with both of them (inaugural "practical shooting" committee, later euphoniously misnamed, "action shooting" in 1983). I can tell you that there was little rapport and no love lost between them. It was more a Keith/O'Connor relationship than anything else. They were at odds on almost every issue. Jordan, Keith and especially Askins took swipes not so much at Jeff personally as they did the upstart "Combat" shooting of the day which they saw as a fabricated event to insure the dominance of the 1911. None of them could match Cooper's intellect nor his biting sarcasm.

Regarding Seyfried's writing background---the first by-line that I saw of Ross' was a response that he wrote in the American Rifleman to a critique that Askins did for AR about the 78' US IPSC Nationals (which Ross won). Askins pretty much ridiculed the activity as a bunch of Walter Mitty-types that couldn't shoot well enough to win at Camp Perry so they started their own game. Obviously Ross, and a few thousand others of us, took umbrage with his comments. The first full feature length "article" that Ross had in print that I remember was a match description of the 1981 World shoot in Johannesburg (which he won) that I believe he did for G&A's Specialty Books Division (annual, etc.) which I think Boddington was still editing at the time. Ross' writing style and photographic skills have improved dramatically since those times!!

It'd be pretty cool if Ross was lurking and would chime in here to set the record straight on all these little gun writer spats!

And it would be even cooler to have access to a "Best of RS" in bookform.

A very important statement from Ross Seyfried suddenly came to my mind: IIRC he looked at some british doubles at one stage and asked why they were so expensive while looking modest. Reply: " Sir, they are beautiful inside." Please consider this in an end 80 European context when everybody was locally going for gold imbedded guns from Austria. So for me these have been the educational contributions of Ross Seyfrieds writing which really made a valuable impression and created added value for me.

Was not far from you last week, Bavaria is really nice place!

About RS:
For sure a guy who know a lot about such rifles and european firearms in general. Very well educated, able to make you dream while reading his words. Could write real good adventure's books.
With an attitude too and strong ideas,i like that. This sort of men are sometime difficult to live or work with but they always bring us something of value. That change of political correctness and usual bla bla bla, mine included!

Dom

I am getting so much great stuff here. I think this project might actually amount to something.

I think the next steps for me are to start compiling some spreadsheets with the data I'm getting.

Regarding my collection/bibliography, here's where I stand:

I have most G&As he wrote in, will work on compiling those.
I have most Handloaders/Rifles, will work on compiling those. Need Successful Hunters!

I am working on getting a complete collection of DGJs, because I think there are probably few he hasn't written for.

Still have nothing on Gray's sporting journals.

I found on archive.org where the IBHA (International Blackpowder Hunting Assoc) listed the articles and authors in each issue, so I know what he wrote, but have no text.

If you have any Seyfried germane DGJs, Blackpowder Hunters, or Successful Hunters you would share (give me, sell to me or let me borrow, I would pay a deposit) I would very much appreciate it. (PM me or reply here).

Thanks so much to everyone who has written or PM'd me... means a lot to me and hopefully I will have something to share with you soon.

I came across this, which is very surreal to me. I am a big fan of Ross, as you can probably tell, but I never once really considered what his voice might sound like.

I found this, which is part of the concerted Remington rebuttal to the CNBC smear, where RS chats about the model 700. Very strange to hear his voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngAE7QYXXis

I am a fan of an writer named Victor Niederhoffer, and actually got to attend an event at his NYC apartment a year or two ago. His voice was VERY different than I expected, and I sort of feel the same to hear the voice of Ross come to life in this video.

AlabamaGene,
Ross also had an article about Sporting Clays shooting in Cigar Afficionado----it REALLY shocked me when I stumbled across that one.

Gene,

You can read Ross's article in the cigar magazine online HERE

Might want to capture that article to your hard disk in case it does not stay there.

On another topic, I guess I am getting old and forgetful: I do not recall reading anything about Ross's early life other than he was PH somewhere in Africa for a while.

His writing makes me think he was educated in the UK or one of the former colonies -- South Africa perhaps? Anyway, from his writing, it was certainly somewhere where his parents got their money's worth!

Anybody know his educational background?

John

I am a great fan of Ross's writing and have been for many years. Sadly, I've not been one to retain periodicals. While some good writers are very informative, which is a very good thing, some of Ross's stuff seems to be inspiring in a way. Many of his articles would often inspire me to buy things that you need to seek out, a quest of sorts. I think most of his really interesting stuff was for dyed in the wool gun loonies. I suspect that is where his conflict with mass market publications lies. If you want to write about stuff you can't just go out and buy, you have little value to advertisers and publishers that rely on the income from such.

I really enjoyed some of his stuff in Successful Hunter, the bear hunt story with the obscure/antique rifle was a very good one.

I've read only one piece that Mr Seyfried wrote, and I've met him only twice, very briefly.

The man flat knows how to write exceptionally well, and by all accounts is an exceptionally accomplished hunter and shooter, with a rich knowledge of all sorts of guns. I have no insight into his veracity, but I suspect that he's basically a man of pristine principle.

The first time I encountered him, he came at me very rudely. The other time, he was as nice as he could be.

All in all, I figure that he's a gifted writer and a gun man to be admired � whatever may be his easily overlooked personal liabilities.

I've known a number of prominent people like that.

Don't know where he went to school, but he grew up on a ranch in eastern Colorado, hunting waterfowl, deer and pronghorns. During his formative years, he met a retired elephant hunter from east Africa and eventually did go to Africa where he was a professional hunter for many years. He guided hunters on his family ranch in Colorado, and later, on his Elksong Ranch. He also competed in Practical Pistol Competition and won the National Championship in the early 1980s.

That very article is what started me hunting the South side of the Breaks for Mule (and Whitetail) Deer. My first hunt was in 1995. We even took a boat, as in that article Ross was with a guide in a boat motoring up and down the Missouri. The boat Ross used was about a 20' jet -- which is what you need on this stretch of Fort Peck. Our little 13 footer nearly got swamped in one of many storms that Fall.

We hunted in pretty much the same spot as Ross had and, as I remember, passed up many smaller 4 point Mulies and some decent 8-10 point Whitetail. Next time I went back (maybe 3-4 years later) the hunting was not nearly as good. A rancher that we got to know there blamed the article(s) by Ross for all the hunters that flooded the area.

i believe i read once where he was a rancher near roggen, colorado.

in a may 1986 guns and ammo article on "coyote hunting", if i recall correctly, he wrote in that piece that fur hunting for yotes paid a lot of his college tuition bills.

don't know where or when he went to college, but in 1972 when i started hunting yotes, $5-10 bucks was about it, whereas in 1975 they would fetch $25.00, and by 1978 they could fetch many times that...

in photos, i noted he used a remington m 700 bdl 22-250 with the 1962-1968 checkering pattern on it, and either a 4-12 or 6-18 redfield on deck. remington didn't offer the 22-250 until (i believe) 1967, so that rifle, if bought new, would have been bought in 1967-1968, so that might put a "when" in context for college--maybe about 1970 onwards?

....you're close
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......Colorado State University in Ft. Collins, Co. Pretty sure that it was some form a agriculture degree, but not sure about that.

His National Championship was in 1978, his world championship was 1981.

Here's a pic that I took of him at the '80 Nationals where I tried to be creative and pan him with a slow shutter speed while he was running in an assault course (this was during his lucky-shirt stage):

i dont quite get why some seem to think their favorite writers have to be fault free......everyone has faults and issues, some more than others....alot of times it has lil bearing on how good of a writer they are......

alot of ppl LOVE Peter H. Capsticks books, im one of them, yet there is a fair amount of evidence that alot of his stories written in the first person were actually stories that happened to others that he had heard through the grape vine....does that diminish his ability with the written word? nope just means you take his first person accounts with a grain of salt and enjoy the story....

Ross is a hell of a writer but i dont doubt that he isnt perfect.....

Interesting that you should mention Capstick in a post about Seyfried!

My cartridge book had just been published when Seyfried learned, at the SHOT Show, who I was. He approached me and assailed me rather viciously for not having listed the .475 OKH as the ".470 Capstick."

(My friend Charlie O'Neil had come-up with the .475 OKH when Capstick [born in 1940] was in his teens or younger, and I'd handled and examined both Charlie's .475 OKH rifle and cartridge as early as 1956 � long years before Capstick later "originated" it as the ".470 Capstick.")

Turned-out that Seyfried hadn't even seen my book at that time. Evidently, somebody had told him that I'd listed the cartridge as the .475 OKH rather than the ".470 Capstick."

Also, I'd watched Charlie seat a loaded .30-06 cartridge as the "bullet" in a .475 OKH case � and fire it as a stunt. Charlie also showed me some .45 ACP cases that he'd poured full of lead, for "emergency" .475 bullets when he'd run-out of Barnes .475 bullets.

need to pick up your book one of these days, had forgotten how much i like to read about wildcats till i ran across a first edition of P.O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders last weekend while my wife was looking through an antique shop.....

http://huntingtons.com

Click on "Books & Videos" in the green left-hand column and scroll down until the blue thing shows-up.

I have always loved Seyfried.

I need a copy of your book Ken. I cannot believe I have gone this long without one.....

I'd say that your fondness for Seyfried's writings is well based, well deserved.

I recall RS mentioning in one of his articles that he'd been college-trained to be an engineer of some sort. He mentioned it in his article "20 Years With the .44 Magnum," while describing how he was waiting for some guys to show up at an oil field where he was doing some kind of engineering, and killed time by sitting on the hood of his truck shooting prairie dogs with his .44. The guys then showed up, and he won a bet by nailing a pd at 150 yards with his .44. He certainly writes like an engineer at times.

Greg Perry

great pic gmoats.

Greg Perry

If I remember right the first IPSC national was held on Table
Mtn. Golden Co.
I think the 2nd was at Ray Chapmans in Mo.

Nationals never have been held at Chapman's. You were correct about the first one---Kirk Kirkham won it. Ross won the second, held in LA and Wes Thompson's. Fowler won the third one held at Park City Utah, then the next two were in Hampton, VA--Shaw and Plaxco IIRC, then to Illinois and the era of TGO (the great one = Leatham) began.

Again, really great stuff... I guess I have to add Cigar Aficionado and Peterson's Hunting to the list of periodicals. I understand he also has had pieces in American Rifleman early and late in his career.

I am still trying to figure out how to document this stuff. I think I will either put it in a shared google doc that people can see and add to if they want, or possibly a "wiki" hosted on my own server.

Someone mentioned the Remington 700 in .22-250, and I know I have read about it several places. That's great detail about the era of the checkering pattern; I would not have the expertise to know about that. There was a great picture in an 80s G&A that showed him with the rifle and what looks like 50 or so coyote pelts nailed up to dry.

I understand it was rechambered early on to 22-250 Ackley Improved, and he finally shot the barrel out in the early '90s, spending more than he originally paid for the rifle on the rebarrel job (I guess not hard if you held it through the inflationary '70s). Most interestingly, he refers to it as His Favorite Rifle of All Time.

I will turn to on this and share with you as I get further info

interesting project you are working on...

as i mentioned earlier, i've enjoyed his writings on coyote hunting and revolvers--i especially enjoyed the articles on revolvers, as much of it was new to me, and the info was of great benefit. the coyote info was of interest, but in a different way, as i had already been hunting them for 15 years when i first read his writings around about 1986--but it is always interesting to read what others are doing.

i did not realize or know that his old remington m 700 bdl heavy barrel was rechambered to 22-250 AI--had always thought it was a standard chambering. with this being so, it was likely an early experiment prior to a gun build, as i did know that he had a shilen dga heavy barrel in 22-250AI...

you mention that the checkering pattern comment was of interest--didn't realize that would be of interest in and of itself, as i was thinking through the model/time to calculate a possible date for college...

nevertheless, those early rem 700 bdl's from 1962 to 1968 were exceptional guns: of course they had the checkering pattern i mentioned; an aluminum buttplate; non-jeweled bolt body; split sear; the back end of the receiver in the loading gate had a square notch cut-out in it; the bolt shroud on the back was much shorter, so that the rear end of the firing pin would protrude much further; the safety was somewhat taller, having a squared off contour; the bolt handle on them was unfortunately positioned so that in heavier kicking guns the index finger would often get banged; and finally, the wood was finished with rkw, a finish developed by dupont for (i believe) bowling pins. it was exceedingly tough, but so are other finishes--what made it unique is that it was very "rubbery", it really flexed easily (if a small piece peeled loose and you bent it in your hand)--to perhaps take the shock of a bowling ball hitting the pins. the finish on the stock did not crack when out in very cold weather (wood contraction), nor did it easily crack if the wood took on water and swelled a little, as it could "stretch" a bit...

though i've much nicer guns than these, i've never been able to shoot anything as well as a 700, especially the older ones--and the sporter weight 22-250 in either the 1962-68 checkering pattern, or the 1969-1973 pattern, are easily some of my favorite shooting rifles--though i surely appreciate the workmanship and machining on very finely made rifles, such as sakos, etc. my L579 sako 220 swift with high comb and 8x leupold is a work of art, but i can only hit yotes with it out to about 375 yards max, whereas the old remington 700's give me an edge to where i can at times hit them out at about 425 yards--and both are sporter weight rigs, as i'm not a fan of heavy barrels.

will be intersting to read all of the material that you compile...have fun with the project!

Seyfried was good out improvising. Here's a stage that was set up by Cooper (or the Hampton's guys) that was intended to force the shooter to pull and hold a rope that lifted a top-hinged portal and shoot one handed thru the window. When Ross got to the barricade--he pulled the rope, grabbed and held it in his teeth and shot two handed!!! Everyone subsequently followed suit and by the end of the match, that rope was nasty!!!

Ha! Talk about unintended consequences!

John

He could out Weaver, Weaver:

...in his post-lucky-shirt era. A true study in concentration--based on his flexed forearms, I'm guessing that he was close to deforming the shape of the grip of his Pachmayr.

very nice pics--that was back in the era when practical shooting was truly practical--it made good defensive sense, and then some. that rope just had to be putrid--laden with all manner of baddies...

improvisation combined with quick thinking is the key to everything--like when armstrong and aldrin used a ball point pen to mitigate a problem on the ascent stage on the lem--for they had inadvertantly broke off the switch while pulling on their eva suits--without a workable solution the engine would not have fired, leaving them stranded on the lunar surface...

it truly amazes me how some folks "can't think on their feet"; for example,

about 35 years ago, my wife was teaching a night class in stained glass. her students were all very wealthy--doctors and lawyers wives, a few well to do businessmen, etc. we had just gotten married then, and didn't have any spare chump change laying around. my wife needed a good hand held shop brush to clean up the glass chips on the workbench. we couldn't afford to go buy one at the hardware store, so i handed her my old, 4 inch wide house painting brush--pretty pathetic for a shop bench brush, but it would have to suffice. she took it along for the first night of class--a night of discussion and going over equipment, etc. you guessed it--the next week they all had brand spanking new 4 inch wide house painting brushes in their kits--even though they all likely had a true, good shop bench brush at home already--if not the very best in the latest ultra portable shop vac--too funny...

but going back to practical shooting, improvisation, and thinking on your feet;

lately there has been an upsurge in making instructional dvd's for tactical shooting--and without a doubt, some have useful tips. in the past few years there is now the concept of "taking a lateral step while firing--moving off-line", and in some applicable cases it just might be ok. nevertheless, like lemmings marching towards a cliff--today there is more than a rash of tin horn pistoleros blindly engaging in this maneuver for every shot/position. but if one stops to think about it, in many cases it is of little help--for all kinds of people regularly train on gunning movers--and it is essentially about as easy to hit someone at close range while they are moving/stepping laterally--as it is if they're standing still--unless their lateral step is to get behind suitable protective cover. however, an often unintended consequence of this "lateral step" is one of inadvertantly tripping or stepping into or onto something, and losing one's balance--which has happened to me a few times on a construction job site where i am so focused on what i am doing that as i sidestep for better leverage (or whatever), i have tripped and gone sailing to the floor. if a chap blindly trains for this in every instance, and then perhaps eventually finds himself in some type of a threat situation such as in a darkened room that is crowded with junk, etc., and quickly sidesteps, he may likely lose his balance--and even more.

i remember bruce lee's "second tenet", what he called "directness". i read that when a reporter asked him what that meant--bruce suddenly threw his wallet at the guy's face. the guy ducked. bruce told him that it wasn't necessary for him to get into a horse stance--you did what was natural--you ducked.

this is what Ross apparently did in that scenario--thinking on his feet and doing what came natural--all in the interest of obtaining the necessary edge...

The article referencing the Remington 700 was in G&A in December '94. The title is actually "Lure of the Custom Rifle," and the discussion of the .22-250 is a few paragraphs on page 55.

He does specifically refer to it as his "absolute all time favorite rifle" which took "enough critters to fill several trucks." He never mentions it having a Shilen barrel originally, but rebarrels it with a Schneider 1-13 twist at Carolina Precision.

He never says it is Ackley Improved, but does say "The .22-250 cartridge is virtually perfect and I have an 'improved' chamber, so no change is needed there." I'm not sure if it could be anything but AI, but he never specifically calls it that. Regrettably there is no pic of that particular rifle in the article.

It's really fun to dig stuff like this up!

I am so thankful for everyone who has added to this thread and PM'd me with details. The pictures are particularly wonderful, thanks!

I am enjoying this project so much, that I've decided I'm going to take longer on the research side of things to make future projects simpler. I would like to produce a biography of RS someday soon, but since it will be almost all based on previously published works of his, it will be more of a research project than a real original writing project.

I am making a wiki, where I am going to, for lack of a better term, "review" old gun magazines. I'm going to do my best to summarize and distill any high points of particular articles down into a few sentences and facts that people will be able to search and reference when they're looking for particular topics or information on particular authors. I am going to particularly focus on RS-containing periodicals at first.

If you aren't familiar with how they work, wikis are a way for people to share and create content. Anyone can edit them, though admins have special editorial and user control.

At first it will be very sparse, but I think this might be the kind of thing many people find useful. If some folks besides myself start creating content on there, then it could evolve into something really exciting.

If I'm not making any sense, I think it will make more sense once I actually share the link with you. Thanks again! Gene

i have an article (g&a may 1986) that has a photo of both rifles--the 700 bdl in 22-250 and the shilen dga 22-250ai, along with a pic of him shooting the shilen dga rifle in 22-250 ai, but don't know if it is "ok" to send you a pic of it, as the magazine is copyright 1986. (if i knew for a fact--for certain--that it was legally ok or acceptable), i'd be happy to get it to you for your compiled material/article--but first and foremost it is always my desire to honor/respect another individuals efforts with respect to creative or intellectual property...

I wonder what Ross' Pachmeyer Specials would be appraised at these days?

He has wrote that he bought the BDL Varmint Special and put it straight to work...no barrel break-in or special treatment, just shot it. A lot...there was a pic with him, the rifle and a "wall" of coyote pelts.

Sometime later he wrote that he built the Shilen as the perfect coyote gun, but you guessed it, he could always shoot the BDL better.

He eventually shot the barrel out of the Varmint Special and I "think" he had it re-barreled in 22-250, then later re-barreled again when he was experimenting with big cased, tight twisted .22s and .24s.

very interesting info--it's just really tough to beat those old rem 700's. the rifle that Ross used--according to the picture in the article--had a two piece standard dovetail front/windage rear mount system--something often decried in this day and age (and without a doubt there are much better mount systems to use to be sure, especially when it comes to a hunting rig), yet guys like him, and Mawhinney--managed quite well with their rem 700 and standard mounts on deck (Mawhinneys had a one piece standard base/ring system).

i've always been a believer in the concept that "simplicity lies at the heart of the most complex", and there are many lessons to be learned therein...

one of the centerfire rifles i had built back in the mid 1970's would outshoot (on a bench--not out in the field), anything i'd ever had--or have now--and yet i never did anything to the barrel but "shoot and clean", (which is why i really enjoyed the essential truth within big sticks barrel break in video). that particular rifle would perform best with the pills well back from the lands...

in the early 80's i bought an L579 sako in 220 swift--especially for yotes--a great rifle and very accurate, but try as i would, i never could shoot it out in the field--on demand--like i could an old rem 700. in part i believe it is the very high comb and cast off stock, along with its balance, which never seemed to work for me in as perfect an arrangement as the "vanilla" rem 700.

along with Ross, i think a lot of us have found that--search as we may--the "ordinary" rem 700 is tough to top.

Thanks for the correction 2nd sign of old age.

In response to Hi Vel about the .22-250 Model 700. As I recall, his Varmint Special stayed in its original factory chambering, whereas his Shilen DGA custom rifle was in .22-250 AI. He mentioned the Varmint Special in several articles over the years, and along about 1989 or 1990 all the G&A writers submitted a couple of paragraphs about their all-time favorite handload. RS's was the .22-250 with 55-grain Hornadys and I believe IMR 4064, because that was what he first tried when he bought the rifle in the 60's. He described the throat of his rifle being almost completely gone because he had to seat the Hornady so far out it was barely in the case. Then, in about '93, he wrote about custom rifles and mentioned having his Varmint Special rebarreled by Carolina Precision. I interpreted the article to mean that he was sticking with the original .22-250 factory version, indicating that he already had an AI version (the Shilen DGA). I could be wrong. However, I distinctly remember him in a later column mentioning that he could not get the new barrel to shoot as well as his old, so he ultimately sent the Varmint Special back to Remington for a new factory barrel, which made it shoot just like it used to.

I remember the same. I am positive he never had the original BDL Varmint Ackleyfied.

based on the articles of his that i've read, this is what i had always understood as well--that the rem 700 bdl varmint gun was always a standard 22-250--but when i read alabamagene's post about it being changed to an ai chambering, i was very surprised, thinking i may have somehow missed an article that disclosed the "changeover from standard chambering to ai in that 700". the only 22-250 ai that i ever remembered him showing in the articles i've read was the shilen dga firearm...

Yes, I think maybe you're all correct. I think in the '94 when he says "I already have an improved chamber" he is referring to his shilen .22-250 Improved. I think he's saying "I already have a rifle in .22-250 Improved so I will rechamber this one in straight .22-250.

To add credence to that thought, in Sep-Oct Rifle Magazine (no. 197, pp. 43-44), Ross mentions he had a special 22-250 Improved built on a shilen action and brown precision stock, weighing 12 lbs, meant to live in a pickup and kill coyotes out to 500 yards without missing. He says it shoots .25 inch groups, but "never hit as well for me as the out of the box Remington Varmint Special," so again he implies it is likely not an Improved chamber on the Remington.

Despite my dearth of posts, I have been working on this stuff very hard. I have a copy of Gun Notes Volume II and I have found all the references to Ross. I am working through magazines too. I have put together a wiki but I need to get a little more in there before it "goes live" so that when I share it with you it will make sense what I'm trying to accomplish.

Thanks again for your thoughts and pictures. Look for the book to be complete in about 2035! (only slightly kidding, this is going to take a while).

-AG

Have you made any effort to reach out to Ross? He's not much of an "online" guy, but he's around.

The ranch:

http://www.landreport.com/2011/07/for-sale-elk-song/

damn, must be a heck of a story behind the sale.

Anybody have a spare 8 million?

I never saw much of his work but what I saw I found informative and he expressed opinion well as if it were a summary.

I particularly recall an article on the. 340 Weatherby that got my attention.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5148543/1


Adam

Yeah, me too. I'm still plotting a build of a .340. M700? M70? Pretty wood or tough, stable synthetic, or maybe laminate?

IIRC he used a 340 Wby to kill a big bear up in Alaska? I still have that issue, amongst a pile of classics. (Rifle or Successful Hunter?)

I recall it being a moose. (The article I remember was Guns and Ammo.)

The name of that article is "Bear Odessey". Read it if you have the opportunity. I think it was one of the better hunting magazine articles written. I believe it was in the arly years of Successful Hunter.

Expat

"Bear Odyssey" was in one of the Rifle Magazine Hunting Annuals that came before "Successful Hunter." Seyfried wrote that he traded his favorite "fighting rifle," a 416 Rigby, for his favorite "Hunting Rifle," a 340 Weatherby built on a Champlin action, on the hunt where he took the bear pictured in the article because of the distances he encountered on his first few hunts in the area. It is probably one of the top five most compellingly written articles to appear in a Wolfe Publishing magazine.

I might be able to add a little here as Ross has been a friend of mine for almost 25 years. I have eaten at his table, put food on his table, slept in his house, hunted with him , shot with him, fished with him, cast bullets with him, and reloaded ammo with him.

While that does not make me anything but a persistent pest who lived about an hour from his ranch it does speak of his patience in at least one case.

On Schrapnels story I have to say he never actually identified Ross. The breaks is big country and I have hunted with Ross enough to know he was not one to bumble about the countryside.

On the 22-250AI you guys are right in that the Shilen was the AI and the Remington stayed a standard 22-250. What most don�t know is that the Shilen never did kill a coyote because Ross quit hunting them the year he ordered the rifle. Seems he quit hearing them howl in the evening and decided the coyotes needed a safe place. Ross�s ranch became a coyote sanctuary.

On the Weaver Stance, Ross never did use a proper Weaver Stance and that is one of the Reasons he did so well in IPSC. A true Weaver stance has the strong side elbow locked at full extension. Ross never locked his elbows and the increase in recoil control was a part of his success. He never was super fast from the holster but once the gun was out and running very few were in the same league.

Think you're right, one of the best hunting article i read, writen by a real talentuous writer and hunter.
Too bad i gave the issue to one of my friend, who gave to another and so on and the magazine was lost.

Ross is really high class writer and really knowledgeable man about old world firearms.
I miss his writing.

Dom

John Burns - thanks for the good insight/information.

I don't know if this was alreday linked.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Ross%20Seyfried%20%96%20Lipseys%20Ruger%20Flattop%20.44%20Special%20Bisley%20Revolvers.pdf

I tried to find a scanned version of his article describing #13 his ulimate revolver that was a custom Ruger Bisley in .475 Linebaugh built by Hamilton Bowen, but haven't been able to google it up.

Bingo...."Bear Odyssey", "Rifle Hunting" Annual 1999.

Another terrific Seyfried article is "Close Enough Buck", "Rifle Hunting" Annual 2000. Wow, what a read. Riveting doesn't describe it fully.

Those early "annual" issues were the best. I still have a bunch of them, everyone was chocked full of adventure.

Here's another one:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=321&magid=24

No. 13

When ever there is a family that dose not get along and there is a good chunk of money to be had, things get sold. In this economy my guess Elk Song is going to be on the market for some time, then again maybe not seeing how Ross spent dam near 20 years making it into Elk heaven. I would bet the Mouth of the South, Ted Turner will buy it if he has not already started the process.

I dearly hope not........

[/quote] The name of that article is "Bear Odessey". Read it if you have the opportunity. I think it was one of the better hunting magazine articles written. I believe it was in the arly years of Successful Hunter.

Expat [/quote]

"Bear Odyssey" was in one of the Rifle Magazine Hunting Annuals that came before "Successful Hunter." Seyfried wrote that he traded his favorite "fighting rifle," a 416 Rigby, for his favorite "Hunting Rifle," a 340 Weatherby built on a Champlin action, on the hunt where he took the bear pictured in the article because of the distances he encountered on his first few hunts in the area. It is probably one of the top five most compellingly written articles to appear in a Wolfe Publishing magazine. [/quote]

Roger. That's it. Thanks for the assist.

Expat

Ross was instrumental in showing the world that the 45 Long Colt might just be the best hunting cartridge for a revolver.

I remember one time Hamilton Bowen (legendary Revolver smith) was visiting Ross at his ranch in Roggen and I just had to show up to see what the grownups were playing with one weekend.

Seems Ross felt it would be a good plan to see how much punishment the factory Ruger 6 shot .45 LC could take before the cylinder bulged. The plan was to keep increasing the amount of H110 under a hard cast LBT 360gr WFN and mic the cylinder after each shot until it moved.

We each had a duty in this experiment.

Ross would don a grinding face shield and welding gloves in addition to shooting glasses and fire each round as the powder charge increase.

Hamilton would carefully mic the cylinder over the chamber to see if the cylinder had moved.

I was ready to call hospital in the event things got out of hand and Ross actually blew himself up.

We eventually gave up when the powder charge was so compressed that it was a race to get the loaded round into the gun and out the door to be fired before the crimp pulled and bound the cylinder.

I will say on the last few rounds Ross shot Hamilton and I choose to observe the firing from the cab of Ross�s Toyota pickup. No joke, we climbed in the cab for the last 2 shot of the experiment.

Say what you want about Ross but he was willing to personally shoot a Ruger to destruction just to find out how much safety factor the higher performing 45 Long Colt loads had if some silly fellow tried to stuff one in a 6 shot Ruger.

Based on what I witnessed that day it is simply not possible the hurt a 6 shot Ruger with H110 and 360gr LBT WFN with a .450 crimp to nose length.



I have shot that revolver and it shoot as good as it looks.

Bowen's book details that revolver, the No. 13. The welding and machining around the top of the hammer at the rear of the frame in order to close the hammer channel and build up the rear sight base is truly impressive. Ross also wrote about wrapping the grips with pigskin to preserve the scrimshaw when hunting.

....sorry my friend, but I think that you're confusing the Weaver with Ray Chapman's modified weaver, which straightened the strong side arm--go to page 26 here for an example:http://www.americanhandgunner.com/1976issues/AHND76.pdf
Ray lamented that it worked for Jack as he was using a 6" revolver with relatively light .38's. Quite different than Jack's and Ross' stance:



Ross was the closest thing to Jack as anyone in the top echelon of shooters.

I've talked to Ross a bit about this and believe he told me that with the 360s he got a very slight bit of bulge under the bolt notch, with the 325s there was no movement.

"Hitting with Handguns" is another great article, and serves as a great instructional for beginners as well as more advanced shooters:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=441&magid=31

While I find this interesting, I have heard of more than one 6 shot super blackhawk that was blown up by shooting 5 shot high pressure 45 colt loads in the factory six shooter.

Still darned impressive what the supers will do.

Have heard of a number that were blown with heavy loads of the wrong powder. The 5 shot loading data I've seen will run 10-15,000 LB less pressure than what a case full of powder runs.

Basic facts of testing firearms �

� What one gun will or won't withstand is a very inadequate indication of what others of the same model will withstand.

� What any one gun will tolerate for one round or so is a very inadequate indication of what that one gun will withstand as a long, steady "diet."

Agree 100% Ken. Alloys used, tolerances, and designs can change from year to year and gun to gun.

As for the No. 13 revolver, here's the full story on its construction:

http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/news/articles/World's_Ultimate_Revolver.pdf

Reading this as a teenager helped give me "the sickness".

To be sure Ross has never advocated 5 shot loads in six shot guns. He and Hamilton performed this test for their own edification and to determine the margin of safety in loading the six shot Ruger guns to 32,000 cup. Those loads were found to have a 100% safety margin in that it would take 60,000 cup, give or take, to blow a large frame 6 shot Ruger Bisley/Blackhawk.

I have heard rumors of 475 linebaughs having been built by boring out six shot ruger cylinders. If the six shot 45 colt cylinders could take those overloads, then the rumors of the six shooter 475's are plausible.

H-110 is my favorite big bore heavy bullet magnum powder, top accuracy and velocity with predictable pressure build is always a good thing. I have seen it do some wierd things with light bullets in the 480 and in the 357 max, but with heavy for caliber bullets in 40-50 cal it is great stuff.

I've seen and held one six shot 475 linebaugh gun and it had an oversized cylinder. At that, its maker didn't feel that it should really be leaned on. The cylinder on that gun was even bigger that the six shot 480 Ruger cylinder in the redhawk, which Ruger didn't feel was strong enough until they went to a different steel.

Yes, the SRH in .480 and .454 are made of Custom 465 steel, which has an extremely high tensile & yield strength.