Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters definitive Seyfried thread

If I remember right the first IPSC national was held on Table
Mtn. Golden Co.
I think the 2nd was at Ray Chapmans in Mo.

Nationals never have been held at Chapman's. You were correct about the first one---Kirk Kirkham won it. Ross won the second, held in LA and Wes Thompson's. Fowler won the third one held at Park City Utah, then the next two were in Hampton, VA--Shaw and Plaxco IIRC, then to Illinois and the era of TGO (the great one = Leatham) began.

Again, really great stuff... I guess I have to add Cigar Aficionado and Peterson's Hunting to the list of periodicals. I understand he also has had pieces in American Rifleman early and late in his career.

I am still trying to figure out how to document this stuff. I think I will either put it in a shared google doc that people can see and add to if they want, or possibly a "wiki" hosted on my own server.

Someone mentioned the Remington 700 in .22-250, and I know I have read about it several places. That's great detail about the era of the checkering pattern; I would not have the expertise to know about that. There was a great picture in an 80s G&A that showed him with the rifle and what looks like 50 or so coyote pelts nailed up to dry.

I understand it was rechambered early on to 22-250 Ackley Improved, and he finally shot the barrel out in the early '90s, spending more than he originally paid for the rifle on the rebarrel job (I guess not hard if you held it through the inflationary '70s). Most interestingly, he refers to it as His Favorite Rifle of All Time.

I will turn to on this and share with you as I get further info

interesting project you are working on...

as i mentioned earlier, i've enjoyed his writings on coyote hunting and revolvers--i especially enjoyed the articles on revolvers, as much of it was new to me, and the info was of great benefit. the coyote info was of interest, but in a different way, as i had already been hunting them for 15 years when i first read his writings around about 1986--but it is always interesting to read what others are doing.

i did not realize or know that his old remington m 700 bdl heavy barrel was rechambered to 22-250 AI--had always thought it was a standard chambering. with this being so, it was likely an early experiment prior to a gun build, as i did know that he had a shilen dga heavy barrel in 22-250AI...

you mention that the checkering pattern comment was of interest--didn't realize that would be of interest in and of itself, as i was thinking through the model/time to calculate a possible date for college...

nevertheless, those early rem 700 bdl's from 1962 to 1968 were exceptional guns: of course they had the checkering pattern i mentioned; an aluminum buttplate; non-jeweled bolt body; split sear; the back end of the receiver in the loading gate had a square notch cut-out in it; the bolt shroud on the back was much shorter, so that the rear end of the firing pin would protrude much further; the safety was somewhat taller, having a squared off contour; the bolt handle on them was unfortunately positioned so that in heavier kicking guns the index finger would often get banged; and finally, the wood was finished with rkw, a finish developed by dupont for (i believe) bowling pins. it was exceedingly tough, but so are other finishes--what made it unique is that it was very "rubbery", it really flexed easily (if a small piece peeled loose and you bent it in your hand)--to perhaps take the shock of a bowling ball hitting the pins. the finish on the stock did not crack when out in very cold weather (wood contraction), nor did it easily crack if the wood took on water and swelled a little, as it could "stretch" a bit...

though i've much nicer guns than these, i've never been able to shoot anything as well as a 700, especially the older ones--and the sporter weight 22-250 in either the 1962-68 checkering pattern, or the 1969-1973 pattern, are easily some of my favorite shooting rifles--though i surely appreciate the workmanship and machining on very finely made rifles, such as sakos, etc. my L579 sako 220 swift with high comb and 8x leupold is a work of art, but i can only hit yotes with it out to about 375 yards max, whereas the old remington 700's give me an edge to where i can at times hit them out at about 425 yards--and both are sporter weight rigs, as i'm not a fan of heavy barrels.

will be intersting to read all of the material that you compile...have fun with the project!

Seyfried was good out improvising. Here's a stage that was set up by Cooper (or the Hampton's guys) that was intended to force the shooter to pull and hold a rope that lifted a top-hinged portal and shoot one handed thru the window. When Ross got to the barricade--he pulled the rope, grabbed and held it in his teeth and shot two handed!!! Everyone subsequently followed suit and by the end of the match, that rope was nasty!!!

Ha! Talk about unintended consequences!

John

He could out Weaver, Weaver:

...in his post-lucky-shirt era. A true study in concentration--based on his flexed forearms, I'm guessing that he was close to deforming the shape of the grip of his Pachmayr.

very nice pics--that was back in the era when practical shooting was truly practical--it made good defensive sense, and then some. that rope just had to be putrid--laden with all manner of baddies...

improvisation combined with quick thinking is the key to everything--like when armstrong and aldrin used a ball point pen to mitigate a problem on the ascent stage on the lem--for they had inadvertantly broke off the switch while pulling on their eva suits--without a workable solution the engine would not have fired, leaving them stranded on the lunar surface...

it truly amazes me how some folks "can't think on their feet"; for example,

about 35 years ago, my wife was teaching a night class in stained glass. her students were all very wealthy--doctors and lawyers wives, a few well to do businessmen, etc. we had just gotten married then, and didn't have any spare chump change laying around. my wife needed a good hand held shop brush to clean up the glass chips on the workbench. we couldn't afford to go buy one at the hardware store, so i handed her my old, 4 inch wide house painting brush--pretty pathetic for a shop bench brush, but it would have to suffice. she took it along for the first night of class--a night of discussion and going over equipment, etc. you guessed it--the next week they all had brand spanking new 4 inch wide house painting brushes in their kits--even though they all likely had a true, good shop bench brush at home already--if not the very best in the latest ultra portable shop vac--too funny...

but going back to practical shooting, improvisation, and thinking on your feet;

lately there has been an upsurge in making instructional dvd's for tactical shooting--and without a doubt, some have useful tips. in the past few years there is now the concept of "taking a lateral step while firing--moving off-line", and in some applicable cases it just might be ok. nevertheless, like lemmings marching towards a cliff--today there is more than a rash of tin horn pistoleros blindly engaging in this maneuver for every shot/position. but if one stops to think about it, in many cases it is of little help--for all kinds of people regularly train on gunning movers--and it is essentially about as easy to hit someone at close range while they are moving/stepping laterally--as it is if they're standing still--unless their lateral step is to get behind suitable protective cover. however, an often unintended consequence of this "lateral step" is one of inadvertantly tripping or stepping into or onto something, and losing one's balance--which has happened to me a few times on a construction job site where i am so focused on what i am doing that as i sidestep for better leverage (or whatever), i have tripped and gone sailing to the floor. if a chap blindly trains for this in every instance, and then perhaps eventually finds himself in some type of a threat situation such as in a darkened room that is crowded with junk, etc., and quickly sidesteps, he may likely lose his balance--and even more.

i remember bruce lee's "second tenet", what he called "directness". i read that when a reporter asked him what that meant--bruce suddenly threw his wallet at the guy's face. the guy ducked. bruce told him that it wasn't necessary for him to get into a horse stance--you did what was natural--you ducked.

this is what Ross apparently did in that scenario--thinking on his feet and doing what came natural--all in the interest of obtaining the necessary edge...

The article referencing the Remington 700 was in G&A in December '94. The title is actually "Lure of the Custom Rifle," and the discussion of the .22-250 is a few paragraphs on page 55.

He does specifically refer to it as his "absolute all time favorite rifle" which took "enough critters to fill several trucks." He never mentions it having a Shilen barrel originally, but rebarrels it with a Schneider 1-13 twist at Carolina Precision.

He never says it is Ackley Improved, but does say "The .22-250 cartridge is virtually perfect and I have an 'improved' chamber, so no change is needed there." I'm not sure if it could be anything but AI, but he never specifically calls it that. Regrettably there is no pic of that particular rifle in the article.

It's really fun to dig stuff like this up!

I am so thankful for everyone who has added to this thread and PM'd me with details. The pictures are particularly wonderful, thanks!

I am enjoying this project so much, that I've decided I'm going to take longer on the research side of things to make future projects simpler. I would like to produce a biography of RS someday soon, but since it will be almost all based on previously published works of his, it will be more of a research project than a real original writing project.

I am making a wiki, where I am going to, for lack of a better term, "review" old gun magazines. I'm going to do my best to summarize and distill any high points of particular articles down into a few sentences and facts that people will be able to search and reference when they're looking for particular topics or information on particular authors. I am going to particularly focus on RS-containing periodicals at first.

If you aren't familiar with how they work, wikis are a way for people to share and create content. Anyone can edit them, though admins have special editorial and user control.

At first it will be very sparse, but I think this might be the kind of thing many people find useful. If some folks besides myself start creating content on there, then it could evolve into something really exciting.

If I'm not making any sense, I think it will make more sense once I actually share the link with you. Thanks again! Gene

i have an article (g&a may 1986) that has a photo of both rifles--the 700 bdl in 22-250 and the shilen dga 22-250ai, along with a pic of him shooting the shilen dga rifle in 22-250 ai, but don't know if it is "ok" to send you a pic of it, as the magazine is copyright 1986. (if i knew for a fact--for certain--that it was legally ok or acceptable), i'd be happy to get it to you for your compiled material/article--but first and foremost it is always my desire to honor/respect another individuals efforts with respect to creative or intellectual property...

I wonder what Ross' Pachmeyer Specials would be appraised at these days?

He has wrote that he bought the BDL Varmint Special and put it straight to work...no barrel break-in or special treatment, just shot it. A lot...there was a pic with him, the rifle and a "wall" of coyote pelts.

Sometime later he wrote that he built the Shilen as the perfect coyote gun, but you guessed it, he could always shoot the BDL better.

He eventually shot the barrel out of the Varmint Special and I "think" he had it re-barreled in 22-250, then later re-barreled again when he was experimenting with big cased, tight twisted .22s and .24s.

very interesting info--it's just really tough to beat those old rem 700's. the rifle that Ross used--according to the picture in the article--had a two piece standard dovetail front/windage rear mount system--something often decried in this day and age (and without a doubt there are much better mount systems to use to be sure, especially when it comes to a hunting rig), yet guys like him, and Mawhinney--managed quite well with their rem 700 and standard mounts on deck (Mawhinneys had a one piece standard base/ring system).

i've always been a believer in the concept that "simplicity lies at the heart of the most complex", and there are many lessons to be learned therein...

one of the centerfire rifles i had built back in the mid 1970's would outshoot (on a bench--not out in the field), anything i'd ever had--or have now--and yet i never did anything to the barrel but "shoot and clean", (which is why i really enjoyed the essential truth within big sticks barrel break in video). that particular rifle would perform best with the pills well back from the lands...

in the early 80's i bought an L579 sako in 220 swift--especially for yotes--a great rifle and very accurate, but try as i would, i never could shoot it out in the field--on demand--like i could an old rem 700. in part i believe it is the very high comb and cast off stock, along with its balance, which never seemed to work for me in as perfect an arrangement as the "vanilla" rem 700.

along with Ross, i think a lot of us have found that--search as we may--the "ordinary" rem 700 is tough to top.

Thanks for the correction 2nd sign of old age.

In response to Hi Vel about the .22-250 Model 700. As I recall, his Varmint Special stayed in its original factory chambering, whereas his Shilen DGA custom rifle was in .22-250 AI. He mentioned the Varmint Special in several articles over the years, and along about 1989 or 1990 all the G&A writers submitted a couple of paragraphs about their all-time favorite handload. RS's was the .22-250 with 55-grain Hornadys and I believe IMR 4064, because that was what he first tried when he bought the rifle in the 60's. He described the throat of his rifle being almost completely gone because he had to seat the Hornady so far out it was barely in the case. Then, in about '93, he wrote about custom rifles and mentioned having his Varmint Special rebarreled by Carolina Precision. I interpreted the article to mean that he was sticking with the original .22-250 factory version, indicating that he already had an AI version (the Shilen DGA). I could be wrong. However, I distinctly remember him in a later column mentioning that he could not get the new barrel to shoot as well as his old, so he ultimately sent the Varmint Special back to Remington for a new factory barrel, which made it shoot just like it used to.

I remember the same. I am positive he never had the original BDL Varmint Ackleyfied.

based on the articles of his that i've read, this is what i had always understood as well--that the rem 700 bdl varmint gun was always a standard 22-250--but when i read alabamagene's post about it being changed to an ai chambering, i was very surprised, thinking i may have somehow missed an article that disclosed the "changeover from standard chambering to ai in that 700". the only 22-250 ai that i ever remembered him showing in the articles i've read was the shilen dga firearm...

Yes, I think maybe you're all correct. I think in the '94 when he says "I already have an improved chamber" he is referring to his shilen .22-250 Improved. I think he's saying "I already have a rifle in .22-250 Improved so I will rechamber this one in straight .22-250.

To add credence to that thought, in Sep-Oct Rifle Magazine (no. 197, pp. 43-44), Ross mentions he had a special 22-250 Improved built on a shilen action and brown precision stock, weighing 12 lbs, meant to live in a pickup and kill coyotes out to 500 yards without missing. He says it shoots .25 inch groups, but "never hit as well for me as the out of the box Remington Varmint Special," so again he implies it is likely not an Improved chamber on the Remington.

Despite my dearth of posts, I have been working on this stuff very hard. I have a copy of Gun Notes Volume II and I have found all the references to Ross. I am working through magazines too. I have put together a wiki but I need to get a little more in there before it "goes live" so that when I share it with you it will make sense what I'm trying to accomplish.

Thanks again for your thoughts and pictures. Look for the book to be complete in about 2035! (only slightly kidding, this is going to take a while).

-AG

Have you made any effort to reach out to Ross? He's not much of an "online" guy, but he's around.