Was in the store the other day, picking up a 98 Mauser action their gunsmiths had welded a new bolt handle on. Walked by the consignment long-gun rack on the way to the cash register and noticed a slim, foreign looking side-by-side shotgun. Put down the action and picked up the shotgun. It looked Germanic, but didn't have any markings on the barrels.

The price was interesting--if the gun was in overall good shape. I'm a regular customer there, so didn't feel shy about taking off the forend and shaking the gun to see if the action was tight. It wasn't, rattling a little, but wasn't super-loose either. Took the barrels off the action and they rung like a gong, indicating the solder between 'em was still good.

Had just gotten the gun back together when a new clerk who I'd never dealt with before (they've gone through a few lately) walked up and said, "That's a nice tight gun," in a little too hearty a voice.

He appeared to be in his late 60's, old enough to know better, but maybe he'd never had the gun apart. I said, "It's a nice LIGHT gun," then put it back in the rack and picked up my action.

"Looks like a nice Swedish 96," he said.

"It's a 98," I said.

"Oh, a small-ring 98," he nodded, smiling.

"No," I said, holding it up a little higher. "It's a large ring."

"Oh, yeah, it is. What're you gonna make it into?"

I smiled. "Dunno yet."

"I just had one made into a .30-.308. A very nice round, doesn't kick much at all."

By that time I didn't even ask what the hell a .30-308 was, so mumbled, "Sounds interesting," and headed toward the cash register.

Someone put the new guy up to ribbing you. Surely....

Oh my; let me guess. Just retired. Picked up a part time job

Hey, I resemble that remark! (Only I haven't picked up that job yet.)

I have been retired 15 years, and I don't want a job.. Didn't want one when I had to have one.. Loafing and doing my thing is just WONDERFUL!
But a guy does wonder where some of these guys in gunshops come from!!!! Maybe Wal Mart failures...

Maybe he intended to say "33-08" rather than "30-308". Wonder how dumb he'll feel when somebody tells him that you're the most famous gun writer in North America. Well, maybe the second most famous gun writer in North America after that gun writer from Vermont, the guy whose name I can't recall.

Jeff

John You might want to go back and buy the man a cup of coffee. Might be an article there

I believe there could be the makings of a good article there.

Ask him about the B-29.

I will hopefully resemble it soon too..

I always wanted one of those 30-.308s........... almost as much as I'd like to get a 7.62mm-06.....

If you look up retired/useless in the encyclopedia, there will be a picture of me.

While not as bad as that, try talking to the guys behind the counter at Cabela's. The young guys act like you're a bother and the old guys at least admit they no nothing about "Modern" scopes.

Dang, John - I generally feel their counter help is more knowledgeable than most shops, but now you have me intrigued. Guess it's gone downhill since ingwe left - I'm about due for a visit and will watch for this guy

i miss ingwe....he was a captive audience when i stopped into harass him when i was in Helena....now he can hide from me

He's probably too busy to do a lot of case-necking, so it made sense!

Sycamore

John,

Ha! So glad I'm not the only one having trouble with all the "new" help at the gun counter. I actually turned around and walked out of there a couple times, once while I was looking at that same shotgun and they (a couple of them tag teamed me) tried to impress me with their (lack) of knowledge about 16 gauges......not that I know all that much about them to begin with.

Anyway, I think Dave had a little talk with some of them because the last time I was in they all greeted me by name (we hadn't been introduced) and then pretty much left me alone.......so I bought that Monkey Wards .308 with the nice FN action

Few places will peg your bull-[bleep]-o-meter quite as quickly as a your average LGS.

I had my first suspicions about the average gun counter clerk at age 12, when I accompanied my father to a few stores. He'd decided to get back into deer hunting, since I was about to start. Of course, I'd already been reading GUN DIGEST and AMERICAN RIFLEMAN for a year or so, so knew a lot more than I do now.

At one of the stores the guy tried to sell my dad on the "new .30-08," because it kicked less but was more powderful than the old-fashioned .30-06. My dad was always a hard sell, so there was plenty of time for me to catch a glimpse of the tag on the rifle and discover, as I suspected, that it was a .308.

And no, my dad didn't buy the rifle.

That clerk may be related to the one that claimed that the reason a 340 wtby hit so much harder then a 338 win mag was because of the difference .002" makes!

Maybe they hire these folks intentionally so that we are made to feel superior to them.

Then maybe we will purchase something just to show them how much we know.

Or maybe if we stand around debating and correcting them we stay in the store longer and the longer we are in the store increases the chance that we will buy something.

Am I just grasping for a logical explanation to explain the lack of wisdom and logic found at most gun counters?

It can be fun sometimes though.

Or maybe most of those that know enough to be interesting are out using that knowledge.

I have run into very few gun store clerks who really knew their stuff. There have been a few here and there but not too many.

Mostly they had a pretty narrow range of knowledge and experience.

One of the best was also the owner of the store; he had hunted very widely across North America,was an avid shooter and knowledgeable rifleman, and in a former life had been in special ops for the military.He knew his stuff and taught me a lot.

Eventually the store closed down and he ended up in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation...it was rumored he was, and always had been, CIA.I guess you never know...

Ha ha Jedi mind trick, "these are not the droids we're looking for" .

When I was a kid, every town of any size in NH and VT had a LGS of the "mom & pop" variety, most of which smelled like Hoppe's #9. Most of the people were helpful and reasonably knowledgeable, some, like Bill DeVaux in Norwich, VT, exceptionally so. There aren't as many of those small LGSs any longer, as the owners are getting older and the young people don't take them over 'cause they can't match Wal-Mart's prices and make a living at it. When my Wife and I were first married and living in Hanover, NH, we used to do the "gun shop loops" almost every weekend. Northern loop one weekend and the southern loop the next. Found a lot of good buys in those small, out of the way, shops.

Since moving to Nebraska, I can only think of one LGS, and it isn't very local to me, that is worth the drive, Mike Strecker's place in Falls City, NE. Other than Strecker's, NE is pretty much an empty void when it come to small LGSs.

The pointless point of the ramble is that at least you have an LGS.

Jeff

I'm fond of LGS stories...we all seem to have them. I had a similar experience to this one last year. My brother and I were looking at a Kimber .308 they had on the shelf. My brother currently has a 30-06, but was thinking of adding a LW .308. The clerk overheard our conversation and said that he should get the .308 because it's more powerful than a 30-06. I asked why and was told "because the bullet leaves the barrel faster." What?

Another incident occurred at the same store a few years earlier when I was looking at the NightForce compacts. After checking out the reticle I wanted to see how positive the turrets felt. I spun the ele a few clicks and started to spin the windage turret when I heard yelling from approximately 20' away. The gun clerk literally ran from one end of the gun counter to other to stop me from spinning the turrets. My pard and I were caught completely off guard as he proceeded to lecture me on how I was "breaking the scope". He then said that I was ruining the "zero" on the scope by spinning the turrets. It literally took 10 - 15 seconds for what he was saying to register with us. It didn't help that he was visibly upset. He then told me I shouldn't touch things if I don't know what I'm doing. My buddy told him that I was a Ranger (civilians seem to think that saying this adds credibility), and the guy started to apologize. I had already started walking off at this time. Too late.

I do my best not to talk to gun shop folk unless I absolutely have to.

Maybe he knows where to find a rare 25-22/250?

That'll be my next project. The latest one, a 284-280....I call it 7mm Express, has been resoundingly wonderful. (It's a standard 280 opened up 4 thousandths to .284 by my very trusted smith. It's kind of a 280 improved. He said it was tricky reaming it out, but he only charged $300.)

Dang, and I just bought a .30-308.

You should AI it by lengthening it out to an OAL of 63mm.

Words of great wisdom there.

When I do have to talk to folks in gun stores I generally limit my vocabulary to "Gee!", "No kidding?", "Well, ya don't say", "Izzat so?", "Wow, that's impressive", all spoken with the wide eyed innocence of a youth, and finally "Oh, look at the time, I have to go..."

I worked in one gun store in Alaska and when I was mounting a scope to fit the buyer, the owner got mad and said that the correct way to mount a scope, no matter the size of the shooter was to pust the scope back until the edge of the objective hit the front of the front ring. This prevented the scope from moving back during recoil. I said that should certainly keep the scope from moving back during recoil, since most scopes I had seen tend to move forward from recoil.
Ironically, a lot of the gun clerks in a store that I worked at in Montana went on to become hunting and fishing guides. It wasn't unusual for someone that had never killed an elk to be an "elk guide".

I still remember the time I was in Sportsman's and asked the guy behind the counter to get me some powder. I put a couple of boxes of bullets on the counter, 130 grain .270 Partitions. He looked at 'em and told me they'd be no good for deer, I needed Barnes TTSXs. Not the TSX's, mind you, but the ones with the plastic tips.

Another good one was when I went into a store in Missoula, Montana and asked the middle-aged guy behind the counter for a box of 150-grain .270 Nosler Partitions. He IMMEDIATELY went into a rant about how he "could prove" 130-grain Partitions "hit harder," so why was I buying 150's?

I waited for him to calm down and asked for some 150's again. He glared at me while sliding them across the counter.

You know, these threads about gun store clerks always brighten my day. But it's a guilty pleasure. I feel a bit guilty about chuckling at the stories because I almost feel like I'm laughing at the mentally disabled...

The other side of the coin, and I'm sure some gun store clerks can back this up, is having to listen to the absolute BS coming from the customer side of the counter all day.

One reason I don't talk to folks at public ranges is that every conversation has somewhere in it, "Yeah, I hadda ------ that would shoot 1/4" groups all day long". "Shot that deer at 650 yards, just held right on him..."

Once again, "Gee!" "No kidding?", and "Gosh, look at the time..." are useful rejoinders.

That happens to gun writers too, believe it or not.

I also run into the occasional guy who starts running down a laundry list of articles he wants to see. I am always happy to listen to an idea or two, but when somebody lists several and tells me EXACTLY how he wants them written (because he actually wants to write them but doesn't know how), and finishes up by saying, "If you do those then I'll subscribe," I nod and smile and think GFY.

Then there are the guys who've read one of my articles, and ask me to tell them what I REALLY think. That's another GFY.

Good point, Jim - I've had the same thought reading through this. I've stood at the counter listening to other customers dazzling the staff with all kinds of reciculous crap. It does amaze me that the gun shop folks can actually be polite and listen to it with a straight face. I'm sure ingwe has some stories to tell (hopefully not about me )

I got the exact same reaction when I persisted in buying the Partitions, that's funny.

I guess one just has to establish a certain reputation. I like to go check out the local gun store once or twice a week and a lot of the guys there recognize me. Often when a clerk and customer are in a heated discussion the clerk will call me over and ask, "Jim, you know what you're talking about, tell us the real scoop and settle this argument for us..."

I started doing my own question and answer sessions at about 15. Had a late start to shooting (city kid) and was at the mercy of older fellows who believed their 06' was THE best one ever built. Or a 30-30 was only good to 75 yards and you HAD to use it in the thick woods. No good anywhere else because the bullets were only good for pounding through trees.

I actually bothered to shoot as many guns as I could find and read ballistics charts. Compared how bad they hurt to how flat they shot. Came to find O'Connor may have a notion. The 270 won hands down. And as far as I knew you BOUGHT guns so choice was somewhat limited making the 270 choice even easier.

Now after listening to you guys for years and parting out everything I buy to build something else "just because I can" I KNOW the 270 wins but I had to listen to preachers preach otherwise for a very long time. And it helped me as a kid understand just because you know your right doesn't make it so

All the little gun shops up here near the border have BS oozing out the door save for one. I don't blame them for speaking what they think they know. Or passing on what has been given as gospel over generations. I actually enjoy listening to the stories of holding on hair with the Mighty STW at 600 yards with a 100 zero. Because your shooting 140's. And the 20" barrel with a brake feels like a 243 so you can watch your shots. Through the 6.5x20, set on 20. Freehand. Running.

And god so loved the shooting world and all it's misplaced children. Would not want it any other way...

Cheers

W

You ain't tumbling into some sorta mid life crisis, are ya?

I sense a bit of cynicism creeping into a few of your recent contributions. Or maybe it's the result of some of us cranky old bastards here getting on yer nerves a bit? ;O)

I tend to discourage conversation with most LGS counter leaners, but have often enjoyed overhearing their prattle.

One former shop here only hired people that reflected the knowledge of the owner, which was about nil. He once insisted that the Marlin 336 scope base "fill" screws I wanted to buy, wouldn't fit my 444 Marlin. But sold them to me anyway, with the loud admonition that I couldn't bring them back when they wouldn't work. And another time I listened to two clerks there try to talk a young lady into buying a 357 magnum, because the 38 Spl. she was interested in, "couldn't kill a flea". She walked out.

Only good thing about that place, was that they consistantly under priced used rifles. So I made it a point to stop in frequently when in that area, to see what they were trying to give away and wound up buying a few. It was open for maybe four or five years.

Heard a guy at another shop once tell a customer that the reason a new M70 had the BOSS on it, was because Browning had allowed Winchester to use it under agreement. The customer didn't seem impressed by that jabber, looked at me like the clerk was on something. So I butted-in and added that the M70 was likely wearing a BOSS, because both manufacturers were owned by the same parent company? Then the clerk went ugly on me, when I asked why two identical pistols were priced differently, for no apparent reason. That place also folded after a few years.

My favorite LGC near hunting camp, has had some doozies behind the counter over the years. Mostly retired guys that had moved to the country and worked there part time. Only two or three of 'em actually had much knowledge about firearms, but that never impeded the rest of 'em from trying to impress customers with their BS and getting in over their heads.

That place was a great source of firearms and related items for over 40 years, until the original owner sold it several years ago. We don't expect it to last through 2014.

Lately, when I hear similar comments at the range, I say "I'm out here a lot, and I haven't seen one of those yet" or something similar.

I have seen a few genuine half MOA rifles though, 308's put together by Terry Cross and Mike Bryant come to mind.

Oh, no doubt. Gun counters are great places to listen in to conversions, but perhaps not so much to be in one (unless for the entertainment factor).

I just did a 308 to 30-308 conversion. Cheapest work I've ever had done and group size was halved.

dubePA,

I'm probably no more cynical than I was at 12, after hearing about the .30-08. But this conversation was outstanding in its repetitive "wrongness."

Such things do seem to come in cycles. Last week I was in the same shop and picked up a "sporterized" 1903 Springfield, a typical job from the 1960's with a sloppily bedded, roll-over comb aftermarket stock. As is also typical of that era, it had the original barrel (and why not?) with the rear sight base been removed. I could tell all this at a glance because I've owned several such rifles, including a couple I did myself, heating up the sight base to melt the solder.

As I looked at the rifle out of curiosity, a young man nearby said, "That's been rebarreled."

I said, "I don't think so."

"Oh, yeah it was," he said. "There's a big step at the rear of the original barrels."

Again, I didn't bother to try to persuade him otherwise, because he was absolutely certain and there was no way to demonstrate his mistake.

My favorite LGS is a gunsmith who sells a few guns on the side. The sign on his counter reads:

Caution:

Hunting and fishing stories told here. Protective footwear may be required.

I learned something new on Armslist the other day too. The seller was advertising a RG revolver (with photo) and said RG stands for "Real Gun" and is made by Ruger. I had always thought RG stood for "rotten gun" so, see what I know

I find that replying with "If you say so." generally stops the conversation.

Kinda funny today, saw a guy a Cabela's try to cycle a Steyr 1895 straight-pull bolt action carbine that was in the used gun rack. No matter how much muscle he put into it, he couldn't get the bolt handle to rotate upward. I watched he and a friend dick with it for about five minutes, then asked if they could use a hand. They'd never seen a straight-pull rifle before and thought that it was a very cool concept. Noticed that Cabela's used gun prices, which are usually pretty high for most things, seemed unreasonably high.

Jeff

One evening when I was working behind the counter in a gun store, a gentleman in his 30's doubled timed down the main aisle, took a sharp left turn down the aisle to the gun counter and screeched to a halt. This entire time, he had been carrying a Remington 742 at port arms, his finger throught the trigger guard. The barrel was pretty well lined up on my bellybutton the entire time. When he caught his breath, he explained that he had a live round in the chamber that wouldn't extract. As I remember, I was a little less than courteous to the fella.
Another favorite was the dentist that brought in a Ruger SuperBlackhawk, Hunter model with a Burris scope. Beautiful setup. He had missed twelve deer with it from his tree stand and wanted to know what could possily be the matter. I asked him what range he had sighted it in for, and he gave me a puzzled look, and asked me "What do you mean, 'sight in'?"
Neither side of the gun counter is lacking in (insert your own word here).
royce

After seeing some of the accumulated expertise at the campfire here I have no doubt that 1/4" all day long rifles do exist, and not just the full blown bench rest jobs, either.

But somehow at the range ownership of these amazing sporting rifles is always in the past tense. And the poor owner of said rifle must really, really miss it as the two or three he is shooting on that particular day seem to be capable of averaging only about 1 1/2 to 2 inches all day long, at best.

At the range I used to frequent over twenty years ago I saw a lot of rifles that could do even better than 1/4" pretty often. Of course they were being shot by Don Geraci, Francis Broussard, Marcy Lyons, Carroll Green, et al.

One of the bargains obtained at the shop whose owner didn't want to sell me the "wrong" Marlin fill screws, was a very nice 1903 US Remington sporter for around $225, maybe 16 years ago.

Nice walnut stock that was bedded properly, Weaver bases and in excellent condition. It is one of two rifles I still own, that is glass bedded.

The clerk said it was a custom 1903A3. I pointed out that since it had a 6/42 barrel date (flaming bomb ord. mark) and machined bottom metal, that it was more likely a pre-03A3 Remington with original barrel. He refused to budge on his assessment.

Still have it, still shoots very well and has killed three whitetail bucks, coupla baldies. Put an old, but as-new steel Weaver K4 on it back then, because it gave the rifle a 1960s "period" look.

That Weaver came on the 444 Marlin and had been on there since the rifle was new (mid 60s?). I removed it and installed a Williams receiver sight, which was why I needed base fill screws from the idjuts.

Older I get, the more I like old rifles.

I may go back and buy the 1903 in the LGS. It reminds me an awful lot of the rifle our neighbor across the alley, a co-worker or my father's, put together in the early 1960's, and killed a pile of deer, antelope and elk with, despite not having a scope (he installed a receiver sight, though I can't remember if it was a Lyman or Redfield).

In fact I wouldn't be totally astonished if this one is his rifle, and the price is very low. In fact I've spent as much money to stay one night in a not-very-good hotel.

"If I do my part" Is usually included in the statement.

LGS are a hoot, both from behind the counter and in front of it.

One of the more knowledgeable clerks i've ran in to was working the counter at wal-mart, of all places. I wasnt really there to buy gun stuff, but they had some .243 sierra MK that I like to shoot in my 6/06. So I put them on the counter, the guy asks "what you loading for"..Wanting to avoid the 20 questions I just said they were for my 243win..he says, "oh I really like them in my 6/06". I talked to the old guy for awhile about guns after that.

I never seen him in there again, probably got fired for being a gun nut.

Is there any way he could have said 30-338

Wish every old rifle that I've stumbled onto and brought home, had come with an owner's diary. As many here have noted on this subject, damn shame old rifles can't talk.

Some came from people I knew, or elderly relatives. So at least there's some history that came along with them.

Stuck around long enough to hear some history on the last one I obtained, from the old boy that parted with it. Happy to have listened. Even happier that he'd kept it in a warm, dry place all those years, after he'd quit hunting with it.

I will never forget opening the bolt on a Rem 700 in my local pawn shop, and having a 22-250 round fly out onto the counter. Smacked the glass hard.

I made them take an additional $50 off the price for the "I just saved your ass" fee. They really did not have too much to say.

I did run into the complete opposite of this once.

Before Sportsman's Warehouse closed here there was a beautiful young lady that worked the counter. Absolutely a great looking woman and friendly, about 27 years old or so. I was in, looking over some rifles and she asked me what I was looking for exactly. I was also feeling like an ass that day and said - "I'd love a Ruger #1 in 275 Rigby" to which she replied - well, we do have a couple 7mm Mausers at the distributor, can I order one of those till you find the Rigby?"

She had this chit eating grin on her face too. I felt about 2 inches tall but she definitely knew her stuff.

The gun shop new-hire might be kin to Dick Fickle.

One of my favorite gun shop idiot stories:
The man has his scope mounted by the gun shop idiot who obviously put the wrong bases on the gun. When the gun owner asked why the bases were daylighted from the receiver top on his new Rem 700, the idiot replied, "You want them that way for tension. It keeps the screws tight. If the bases were flush with the receiver deck the screws would shear off the first time you fired it."

The new gun owner looked at me and said, "Man, that guy really knows his stuff."

If he didn't have a B-29 maybe he had an understudy rifle in .29 Hornet with an Ackley Improved 40-degree shoulder. What we say and write haunt us.....

I love reading stories like this. You laugh. You moan. You cringe.

At Epps Sporting Goods - founded and owned for many years by Ellwood Epps, creator of the Epps line of improved cartridges - a dullard that worked there told a customer that the 303 Epps conversion was not safe for the No 1 Lee Enfield, only the No 4.

If you are unfamiliar with Lee Enfield rifles, they fired the 303 British cartridge. The No 1 is simply an older version of a rifle that was created specifically to fire the 303 cartridge.

The customer turned to me and asked if that was true. I said no, that the 303 Epps generates the same pressure as the parent cartridge, the 303 British. The gun shop employee looked over his glasses at me and said, "And who are you, Steve Redgwell?"

The customer and I looked at each other and cracked up. The reason? My book was displayed on the counter, barely a foot away from the clerk, with my picture on the back cover, facing him. I was even wearing the same hat as in the photo.

We need more stories!

Well, now that you mention it...I nearly had a free Westley Richards .500 Nitro Express last weekend.

Well, almost free, just a missing "9" on the end of the price tag.

************

True story - I stop in Cabelas to use a gift cert, and browse through the "Gun Library". I've seen the rifle before, and admired it, but knew it was $30k+ and didn't even bother handling it.

Today I notice the price tag reads, $3499.99 Hmmm.

A guy standing next to me says, "that's a real buy, but the bores aren't so good."

Well, I handle, open it, and sho 'nuff the bores are a little dark, but still very usable, especially for a .500 NE. I walk into their office:

Me: "this the right price?"

Salesman: (looks at the tag) "Yes, that's it"

Me: "okay, I'll take it"

Salesman: "great, have a seat, and I'll start writing it up!"

I sit down, note that the guy is starting to get a funny look on his face. I remember the story of the guy who withdrew $100 from an ATM, but was dispensed a bunch more, didn't report it, and had the law after him.

I mentally sigh, and say, "You sure that price tag isn't missing a digit?"

Salesman: "Yes, it's $34,999"

Me: "That's not what the price tag says"

Salesman: "ahhhmmm...going to fix that right now!"

I laugh and tell him no, I can't take it. Somewhere I bet there's some long-dead Westley Richards craftsman, laughing their ass off.

Most expensive gun in the store, and they lose a digit on the price tag

Fortunately, my LGS is a one-man shop owned and operated by a local rancher who uses it as a way to support his addiction to buying, selling and shooting firearms. He is only open a couple of days a week these days, but the shop is packed on the days that he is open.

He owns, and has shot, way more guns than I ever will. It is almost impossible to stump him on cartridges and the rifles or handguns for which they are chambered. He also knows everyone in southwestern New Mexico and southeastern Arizona. When people have guns to sell, they take them to Bill or call him, as he doesn't take advantage of anyone. He gets the damnedest stuff out of estates, and he has one hell of a collection.

He has traded me out of a couple of rifles that I would dearly love to get back. My only hope is to outlive him and buy them back out of his personal stash from his son who is his only heir.

What do you charge to change a gay .270 Win to a manly 6.8-06? I heard that the 6.8mms are 5% more awesome than any 6.5mm could ever hope to be.

6MMWASP,

He might have meant .30-338, but didn't say it. My hearing isn't the best in the world, but I still have most of it, and he was less than two feet away. And if he did mean .30-338, his comment about how it doesn't kick much doesn't make all that much sense--unless, of course, he's one of those real he-men we often run into. Or maybe he loads it down to .30-308 velocity levels?

What this campfire needs is a "Tales from the Gunshop" forum. That way, whenever someone runs into one of these gems, we can type it up for posterity.

mudhen, do you mind telling me either here or on a pm the name of the gunshop???? I love those places.. We will be heading to New Mexico and Az. later this year.. Used gunshops are really awesome...

In 2007 I had a relatively rare turkey tag in Alberta. Now I had read a lot of turkey hunting how-to stories over the years, but when I'm at the LGS and not finding the 3" copper plated 5s I was looking for, I asked the very knowledgeable (about most firearms things and I knew he had accompanied a friend who was successful the previous year) clerk which he would choose, 4's or 5's (3" copper plated)?

He looked at me and said "Get the biggest you can?" I said 4's? "No the biggest you can". I said, What are you talking about? BB, 4 buck? "The biggest you can."


I'm now thinking he's pranking me. I say, Jim every article I've ever read advised that I should try to get a dense pattern and usually #4-6 copper plated shot is advised.

Old Jim got very mad. He said "How dare you ask for advice and then question me when I give it to you? Who's been in on a successful turkey hunt? Not you!"

You know, he has hardly said 5 words in a row to me since 2007 and goes out of his way to ignore me. But really who cares?

I bought the 6s BTW. If I do it again, I'll get 5s or 4s. Not impressed with the 6s unless my sample of one was a super turkey.

The premiere shop in our area going back to my teenager days in the early 1960s has long ago gone under, but many of us old goats remember it fondly. It eventually withered away after the old man turned it over to his sons, but by then chain stores had moved into our area and likely sealed its fate.

Great place, good stock of merchandise and mostly knowledgable staff that were primarily part timers, including several gun loonie local cops.

One guy in particular was very knowledgable, but his quirkiness turned an awful lot of people off. Not me. I always enjoyed leading him astray if the circumstances offered and never missed an opportunity.

When the M686 S&W came out, decided I had to have one and headed down with money in hand. Shop was busy that night, but I waited for him to free up, knowing he'd try to talk me into a Colt Python. After that failed, he laid a 4" and 6" Smiff out on the counter, then got a phone call. No one was ever allowed to leave a handgun on the counter with a customer, unattended, but there I was with my choice of pistols.

The other guys behind the counter picked up on that'un right away and when he came back, some got on him. He claimed it was okay because I was a regular and he knew me. So one of the cops that I knew well, said "Okay, then what's his name, if you know him?" ;O)

The owner had to come out to restore order among the employees.

Same quirky guy was the "entertainment" one night some years later at our monthly gun club meeting, to do a show'n tell on cleaning firearms.

He wanted examples of several kinds of rifles, shotguns and handguns. I fetched along my 444 Marlin, knowing he'd want to impress the crowd by demonstrating that they can be cleaned from the breech by removing the lever. So before the meeting I mentioned that I bet that lever screw on the Marlin was as tight as a boar's arse?

He spent minutes making sure he had exactly the correct screw driver bit from his gunsmith's tool kit, before attacking that lever screw. Older folks can picture Art Carney doing lots of flourishes getting ready to sign something, on the Honeymooners TV show.

He found out it was only finger tight, but by then I had faded back into the crowd and he couldn't find me right off.

He still works one night a week at another gun shop and is just as renowned for his quirkiness, as he was 30 years ago.

I once posted that I talked to a guy at my range (20 years ago) who had just finished building a "custom" 270-06. He necked a 30-06 case to 270 and called it a 270-06 wildcat with his name attached to the end. I asked why he just didn't chamber the rifle for the 270 Winchester (tongue-in-cheek question) and he started to tell me how his cartridge was better. I just said I had to get back to my bench and left.

A few years ago I picked up the last 700Ti at a Sportsmans in Idaho. The dude behind the counter (in a very authoritative semi-gruff persona) tried to tell me the Ti action very desirable because it was so much stronger than the standard 700 actions. After I got done laughing at him, I asked if he thought the weight reduction had any merit or if paying $1K was worth it just for all that additional action strength.

A different employee handled my paperwork.

I overheard a dumbass at a LGS one day telling a Dr. That I knew very well that bullet from a 30.06 could travel a distance of over 5 miles! The Doc & I just looked at each other & winked. GS clerk never did figure out we were laughing at him.

Heard this same dumbas GS clerk tell another customer that the WW .375 Big Bore Cartridge was only good for killing a hog out to only 70 yards.

The idocricy of some people never fails to amaze me.

Once stopped at a gunshop in my area to buy some ammunition and chatted with the owner for a couple of minutes. I asked him if he was going to go hunting as deer season was just a few days away and he responded with: No, I dont want to be in the woods with all the bleeps that come in here all day.

I've heard it from both sides of the counter, most recent was a customer at the LGS. Old fella,wanted a box of GOOD 30-06 ammo. It needed to hit HARD, he told the guy helping him. The poor guy brought out about everything they had, to no avail. The Partitions were no good because they were soft points, and he needed his bullets to hit HARD! The TTSX's were no good, that plastic tip wasan't going to hit hard either. Hollowpoints were right out. I left before he made a decision, but I felt kinda bad for the guy behind the counter, he was trying very hard to be patient, but it was a couple days before deer season and the line was getting longer by the minute.

Hey JB,

Two GFY's already this year. Trying to qualify for the Hi-Line Crowd? Don't disagree with your conclusions, and appreciate you telling it like it is! I just turned 64 and don't have much tolerance for idiots either. Glad to see you are showing your age.

Well, this is a fun thread.
I guess I avoid most of it because my hearing's shot and I already know what I want.
The other thing, and I have to consider myself lucky, we have around 3 LGS and 4 BGS, I think, and this is probably one of the gunniest counties in America.

According to TP&W, a .30-06 round can only travel up to 4.5 miles, he was way off

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/learning/hunter_education/homestudy/firearms/bullets.phtml

And that was his problem. Quoting some dumb ass pencil pushing bureaucrat from TP&W.

Here at the Ranch, part of our property has two cotton fields that are each 320 acres. They are separated by a county road. So each fence that keeps our cows out of our crops is roughly 1 mile long in each direction.

Little brother used to bet me he could shoot across both fields with the old man's 30.06 when we were kids. And since our closest neighbor is over 6 miles away, no one was in Iminent danger.
No matter how much elevation he held, he could never shoot across both fields.

If that'd been a 30-308, he could've hit Oklahoma if facing north?

That's an interesting anecdote, and interesting "data" to base your opinion on--two kids on a ranch. And I'm sure "the old man's '06 was representative of what any 30-06 available can do.

Any time you're willing to bet real money that I can't shoot a .30-06 round two miles or more, let me know. It's funny, a guy just posted a video of .308 rounds hitting a steel target at 1450, I think it was.

That's almost a mile, shooting pretty much on the level.

Just ran a quick set of numbers with JBM, it only goes out to 3000 yards, which is 500 yards +/- short of 2 miles. A good .308 bullet launched at 2600 fps will easily make it to two miles. Check for yourself.

The one thing I will never do is let a clerk at a store like Cabela's or Academy mount a scope for me.

I recently heard a kid working at a LGS try to talk a women into buying a Taurus Judge. He said it was the best self defense pistol in the world.

Hatcher's Notebook, p.544: Maximum range for a 30-06 with a 172-grain M1 bullet at 2600 fps MV is 5500 yards (3.125 miles). Max range for a .50 Cal AP 718 bullet at MV of 2840 is 7275 yards (4.134 miles).

Presumably this is on the surface of Planet Earth at usual prevailing conditions. Yardage (mileage) will vary in other locations and conditions.

--Bob

Exactly, I wonder what the yardage would be at 5000MSL, considering that the 172 grain bullet and the 2600 MV are both conservative as far as what a 30-06 is capable of.

Ditto, here. Nobody, but NOBODY, mounts a scope on my rifles but ME!

Lost track of how many people I've encountered at our ranges, that were upset because their new rifle couldn't "find paper" and the guy that mounted the scope/bore sighted it, told them it was ready to go.

All of my scoped rifles were of my own doing and I don't own any sort of bore sighting doohickies, other than my eye. Easy enough with bolt guns and they're the only sort that wear a scope at our house.

Although I did once mount a scope on a Marlin lever rifle. Mostly just to wring out the maximum accuracy while whompin' up a load for it.

I cringe any time anyone starts talking to me in a gun shop.

Honestly, for all it's faults, the reason I am here at The Campfire is that the depth of knowledge that is here. In time almost every thread has someone step up and get the story right.

I'm the same way at the range. It seems that the guys who really know what they're doing tend to not be very "chatty."

Thirty, three O eight.
Thirty-three, O eight.


He may not be as dumb as he sounded.

The best clerk I've had lately was the new guy at WalMart.

I walked over, said I'd like to see if they had a certain gun. He looked at me and said, "Listen, I'm retired, I just started working here, and I know nothing about guns. You come back here behind the counter and look at whatever you want. When the manager comes back to yell at me for letting you do that, just leave. It doesn't matter to me if I get fired, I don't need this job."

He and I had a great conversation as I showed him a little about each type of gun he had in the case.

Once had a young clerk tell me that the 17 HMR was the best elk round in years.

Same here, and unlike the LGS/range, jibber-jabber can be skipped over with a <click>.

What is it about the gun shop environment that brings the idiot out of every vulnerable soul?

Was it a 30/308 or just a plain jane 308Win.???

Sometimes having a dum [bleep] for a clerk in a gun store is not a bad thing.There is a shop in midstate Wi.Who`s owner knows everything.Just ask him.Anywho I was viewing his used rifles and walla there is a Dakota 76 in 280 with a real nice hunk of English on it.Also was with a Swarovski scope.Price was $1,700.00 The hang tag said it was a Dakota 73.I told the owner it was not worth what he was asking as the 73 was the predecessor to the 76 and did not have all the bugs worked out of it.He grabbed his gun book and could not find a Dakota 73 listed.The 76 almost looked to be a 73 and thats how he came up with the hang tag.He said in that case he would pull the scope as it must be worth more than the rifle and sell me the rifle for $800.00.I hemed and hawed around and told him I would take it,but that he sure was a tough negotiator!!!! I think I pulled a Schrapnell !!

So what you're saying is that you misguided an honest man?

Or the opposite:
http://www.bearbasin.net/product_p/swa59156.htm

I prefer the 5's for my Squirrel whacking. 4's are too big & 6's lose momentum.

I asked for .300 Savage and was handed .300 Ultra Mag.

My other favorite was that spikes do all the breeding at night when the herd bulls are sleeping.

Just remember folks, for every story about what happened to you in the LGS, or what you were told/overheard in the LGS, there's a similar story that involves the customer spouting ridiculous info.

Every time I go into a bass pro near Houston I have to stand at least 5 feet away from all other people at the gun counter if I'm waiting to look at something. The things I hear the clerks and customers telling one another gives me chills.

I believe that's been mentioned, and agreed on, already in this thread.

What it comes down to is 90.47% of the people on EITHER side of the counter are FOS. Which probably correlates exactly with the general population.

He is far from an honest man.If he sold it for that someone got screwed on a trade in.

Now let's talk about some good LGS's. There is one in Ft. Worth called Elk Castle that has pretty knowledgeable sales people and excellent gunsmiths. I took a rifle in because I thought I had stripped one of base screw holes. One of their new gunsmiths took it in the back and came out five minutes later with it fixed. All he had to do was rethread the hole to the original size. Didn't charge me. Another time I brought in a Buck Mark that I was trying to take out the screw under the barrel to remove the barrel for cleaning. The head gunsmith tried to remove it for thirty minutes and couldn't. So he sent it to Browning and they got it loose and again I wasn't charged.

A couple of years ago I bought what I thought was a SX3 Walnut Field 12 gauge from Buds. I looked it over at the FFL and took it home. When I got home I compared to my SX3 in 20 gauge and noticed the stock on the 12 gauge was shorter. In small lettering the box did say compact but the website did not. This was my first online purchase and I realized I should examined the shotgun more thoroughly. Buds was a fault too for misrepresentation. I called Buds and they basically told me to pack sand, they would take it back if I paid shipping and they charged a 40% restocking fee. I found a store called Bargain Hunter Outdoors that is a big Winchester/Browning dealer. They took the SX3 in trade and charged me $199.00 more for a Maxus 3" Stalker. When I am looking for a firearm I always give them first shot and will even pay a few dollars more if they can't match.

I still buy from Buds because there firearms are so cheap, but I always check the model # on their site vs the model number on the manufacturers site. I am constantly surprised at how many discrepancies there are .

The first gun I bought from Buds was a Ruger No. 1 RSI .30-06. When I ordered it I casually asked the gal how many of those they happened to have in stock. She said they had five '06 RSIs. Then I asked if I could trouble her to open the five boxes and have her ship me the one with the best wood. I was referred to as a "sweetheart" and told that wouldn't be a problem at all. The result is pictured in the thread link below with it's best buck to date.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7219465/2/RUGER_1_wood

Buds made me a repeat customer, but I'm glad I've never had to return anything.

Well said and so true!

One true test, if it's an old guy that appears to be a gun IDIOT, ask him anything about JOC. The old idiots always know about him.

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

I do pick up ammo cheap once in a while because someone bought a pile of 308 for an 06, or 7 Rem Mag for their 7 Mauser.

On thing about knowing something about guns and ammo is I have learned to ask a few questions before revealing a profound truth. The devil is in the details.

At a LGS in Hagerstown, MD, I pointed out that an old Model 52A Winchester had its LH locking lug seat cracked plain as day (a notorious fault on the early 52's), the young clerk just shrugged his shoulders and turned away. Two weeks later, I pointed it out to a different clerk, and got much the same reaction- a look that said "who are you to tell me stuff like that? I'm the expert here." Over a year later the gun is still setting on the rack, with its fantastically high price tag (for a gun with a cracked lug seat, and other more minor issues). I stop in there a lot and often consider dragging the manager into it but in the end, why bother. I do hate the idea of some feckless soul buying the gun and discovering that accuracy sucks (the usual result of said condition), not to mention a potential safety hazard (the RH lug seat usually holds well enough though). They probably allowed too much on it when it was brought in and refuse to eat the loss.

"You can lead a man to reason, but you cannot make him think."

Thank you.

old idiot

Not sure if you're dogging old guys or JO'C.

Despite his 270 fixation, I like reading JO'C's work and still occasionally like to cozy up the library and thumb through the copy of "The Hunting Rifle" that my parents gave to me in 1971. Back in those days, Outdoor Life was THE magazine and JO'C was THE gun writer.

Jeff

Having worked for 6 years in a gun shop, I can honestly tell you that takes place on BOTH sides of the counter.

I was surprised to be told that adding a muzzle break increases velocity due to adding barrel length. Also that mounting your scope with the objective bell hard on the barrel increases the stability of the scope, gives three points of contact. Rick.

On the other hand I was very pleased to find out that all the "old stuff" is pretty much useless and the "new stuff" is vastly superior.



Now I am just waiting for the price-fall on the "old stuff".

These days I tend to be slower in blaming the other person in what I thought I heard.

Out with a female friend for breakfast and she ordered "Oatmeal Slush." WTH!!!! When the waitress left I asked what is oatmeal slush? She laughed and said Nooooo. Oatmeal Deluxe, you know with raisins, banana and cinnamon?

Then one time her phone rang and after a short conversion she said, "That was Yanoto." "Who is Yanoto?" " The ex." "Your were also married to a Japanase fellow?"

Another laugh and she slowly said. " That was you know who."

He Father was a shooter and she had been thru this previously

Sage advice for those of us who what can't hear good anymore.

Huh? Whadju say?

Kinda like the feller who likes Iron Butterfly's "InaGlobofVelveeta". Or Creedence Clearwater's "There's a bathroom on the right".

No question that oddballs can be found on both sides of the gun shop counter.

But I can abide them more easily when they're not behind it, because there's no reason to rely on them for anything more useful than some brief entertainment.

Most of the local gun shop owners where I grew up were a bit eccentric. Two could be downright unpleasant when dealing with persistant dimwits. But it was always a good time when I stopped by, even if I happened to be the focus of their wit and wisdom on that visit. Just part of the curmudgeon experience.

All but one are gone now and I don't expect anyone to come along to replace them.

At least they all knew WTH they spoke of and aside from the normal guff handed out to regulars, they were all a joy to spend time with.

I have enjoyed reading these comments from both sides of the counter in the LGS. Most of my time in gun shops has been as a customer, but I do have some behind the counter time from years ago when my brother had a gun shop and I helped him out. I have an attitude I reserve for dealing with people in the LGS.

I had a Dad that had no interest in firearms at all, so I got little direction at home or from family concerning firearms. I was very fortunate though, to have a couple of really small gun shops in the area, owned by old guys that loved to get young guys hooked on shooting. They would spend their time showing and explaining different firearms to young guys knowing that we didn't have the money and couldn't buy the guns if we did. These guys loved talking and sharing their knowledge. They spent time with me and were patient while answering a thousand questions. I found that I could learn much more by listening than I could by talking and that the right question would really get them going. In no time I was holding the "76" Winchester, having its action explained and demonstrated.

I figure when I get some guy behind the counter that has his facts a little confused or is too enthusiastic about the latest polymer 9mm pistol, that it is payback for all the time those old guys spent with a young man 50 years ago that was full of questions and had pockets that were empty. I think about Mr. Clyde Curry and Mr. Roy Smith and I cut him some slack.

The closest LGS where I grew up was owned by a fellow who must have been in his late 30s when I was a teen. He also sold scuba gear. He was very knowledgeable and tended to have a lot of custom rifles in his inventory, something that was relatively rare in those days. I spent a lot of time there, but never actually bought anything except a little ammo and maybe some cleaning supplies.

He was well-known in the shooting fraternity in the Houston area in those days, and his major claim to fame was that he did not negotiate. When he put something on the rack, new or used, the price on the tag was the price that it sold for--period. He had a very nice semi-custom Mexican Mauser that I lusted for, but the price was way too much for a teenager who was supporting a car and a girl friend. I mentioned this to the manager at one of the downtown shops one time. He just laughed and said, "If he doesn't get his price, Ken will still have that damned gun until he retires or dies."

Probably 30 years later, while visiting my mother, I was driving by the shop and stopped and went in just to see what, if anything, had changed. Ken was still behind the counter, white-haired and wizened, the scuba gear was dusty and cobwebbed, and that Mexican Mauser was still on the rack--with the same faded price tag!

I've really enjoyed reading this thread! My LGS situation is frustrating. At one of them, the owner acts like you are bothering him if you go in. At the other, the guy behind the counter constantly acts like he is the world's foremost expert, regardless of the topic at hand. I know enough to know that I may not be the most knowledgeable guy in the shop, but I also know enough that I can't stand the general air of condescension. Maybe his attitude developed from listening to geniuses on this side of the counter, but all the guys I know who know anything about guns and shooting hate going in there. I occasionally buy reloading supplies, cleaning supplies or other items, but have bought zero guns from the first guy and only one from the second. I have made most of my recent gun purchases from a LGS that is more than an hour from home. It is worth the drive to deal with someone who knows what he is talking about and who understands that many of his customers have some knowledge and experience. He usually has the best prices too, but if he didn't it would be worth paying a little extra to know a place like that could stay in business.

I often overhear conversations around gun counters that make me shake my head. One of the funniest recently happened in the local Wal-Mart. I don't remember what I was in there for but a couple of young guys were talking about ammo for deer hunting. One was explaining to the other that the .30/06 was good for deer but only if you use 150 grain bullets. He went on and on, but before I go out of ear-shot I had been educated that 180 grain bullets out of an '06 would practically blow up a deer.

I was in a shop a couple of days ago and two security guards were talking to each other loudly about shooting people on duty and getting shot themselves but body armor saved them. Not knocking the security guard profession, but they sounded like more like 11Bs or vice cops. Owner and employees were smirking and shaking their heads.

I am not surprised John. When recently purchasing a Mark V at Cabela's I got my dose from one of the experts can't help themselves.

I was conducting what I thought to be routine commerce when a mobile doughnut conservation/storage unit approached, to tell me what an excellent purchase I made with an action perfectly designed for the .338 I bought.

When I told him it was a .460 Action with a blocked off magazine, he told me I was wrong, "the .460 requires a specially designed version of the Mark V that is considerable larger". I smiled and left.

JW

On GunBroker, there is a Colt Light Rifle (Dukes Guns in PA) for $975. It has been on Gun Broker since at least 2009; I ran into Duke at the 2011 NRA Annual in Pittsburgh and asked why it is so high - got no answer. It's still there. I've bought 2 Colt Light Rifles for a lot less ($375 in 2007 and $450 in 2009) and both ere NIB. I guess Duke just wants to hang onto the rifle until hell freezes over.

Dukes on Rt 422 outside of New Castle?

Addition: Just checked GunBroker and it is him. He has made a good living not selling low. You want it let me know. My best hunting Bud lives right down the road and knows him well. Perhaps he can work something out.

People with good gun knowledge do not always have the business acumen to run a successful store. And vice versa. I do complain about goofy comments from the gun shop employees (and owners) but I tip my hat to anyone making a go of it in today's market. That includes Duke.

Thing with Duke's, is that he usually has what you want in stock. A busy little store. He has apparently done well.

OK.

A fire member who is looking out for my best interests PM'd me and indicated that this possibly could be interrupted as an offer for a shill purchase. While I can see his point, my original intention was to have my Bud see if Duke is willing to sell the firearm for the price they are currently going for, which is considerably less than his GunBroker minimum.

If so, I would have let the fire member and Dukes handle the transaction between each other.

I love this thread. Having been in the gun business for 50 plus years, both retail and wholesale, I can simpathies with both sides. Not saying I've heard it all, but after all those years I just put on my chest waders before going to work.

Dennis

A few years ago I was in the market for a Browning Short-Trac in 300WSM. The LGS had one in the rack, so I was going to spend my Christmas bonus on it.

There was a new guy behind the counter that I had never seen before. I asked him if I could look at it. He said, "you don't want that, it's a 300WSM. Browning discontinued making rifles in that caliber years ago. You can't even buy ammo for it anymore."

I said "OK" and headed for the door where I bumped into the owner. He asked if I found what I needed etc. I told him, "no, you have an idiot behind the counter that I refuse to deal with", and I walked out.

That afternoon he called me and asked if I was still interested in the rifle and he would take care of me personally . Told him "Too Late, found one at GM". Never saw that idiot there again.

I have a son that graduated from Trinidad State with a degree in gun smithing about a year and a half ago. He is working at a LGS as a gunsmith and sales person. He has been interested in firearms all his life and seems to love his work. He knows a great deal about the new firearms, but when it comes to the old stuff, that interests me, he comes up short. He just hasn't seen it or been exposed to it yet, but he is learning.

I have had a few of my friends come to me and say that he worked with them on a problem or a purchase. I have to admit that the first thing I thought of was the kind of counter person that has been mentioned here and that they were going to complain about him or some comment he made. I couldn't have been more wrong. They all have complimented him on the handling of the problem and the kind of service he provided behind the counter.

I got to meet some of his class mates at Trinidad State while he was in school and they were great guys. Talented and knowledgeable about firearms and they knew enough to realize how much they didn't yet know. It makes me feel good to know that there are young people that are interested in learning the business and there are good schools that can teach them. They are willing to ask questions and listen to answers. They also have the knowledge to spot a BS artist when he shows up and the self control to let him go unharmed.

One of the most interesting aspects of firearms is there's ALWAYS something to be learned!

Having live some 71 years so far, it's been my observation that people in general think they know and often pretend to know more about topics than they really do. Not so bad if it's only a gun store clerk, but really bad if it's your doctor.

That is true. I have found that I have had to unlearn some facts that I knew to be true too. An old guy once told me that silence was not necessarily an indication of a lack of knowledge, but that it can also be an indication of patience in the presence of a lack of knowledge.

ild save a hell of alot of money on books if the opposite were true a book on British shotguns and rifles from 1860-1900 just showed up today

you really don,t need a cannon, I really think many guys behind the counter at BASS PRO HAVE NEVER HUNTED

I was recently at a local bass pro shops just to browse, the new hand gun selections and be shocked at the prices, , while Im standing there,amazed at the higher prices, a guy comes to the counter and says to the sales guy that he wants to purchase a powerful handgun to hunt hogs with, as on his first hog hunt he used a borrowed 45acp commander pistol and was less than impressed, with it , as it took him 4 shots to kill a 220 lb hog, the clerk without asking a single question about the range the hog was shot at, where the bullets hit, or any other info, reaches for a 500 S&W that costs $1475,
the guy looking to buy the hog handgun says , that is a lot more expensive than he had hoped to pay and far too large to holster comfortably, but asked about the ammo cost, the clerk, just reaches for a taurus, revolver
again the guy asked about ammo cost and availability and he was again ignored, I started asking the guy about his hunt, where he hit the hog , how far away, it was, the ammo he used etc, trying to get some idea as to the conditions under which he had shot the hog, I found that as usual the shot placement was not ideal (IT RARELY IS ON MOVING TARGETS FIRED AT BY EXCITED FIRST TIME HUNTERS) and ranges were well under 20 yards,
I suggested the guy purchase a 6.5"----8 3/8" 44mag S&W revolver that was listed as $749-$800 on the display, as it was one of the few stainless 44 mag double action revolvers in 44 mag on display for under $1000 and buy some double tap 300 grain ammo,, or damn near any commercial full power loads, with a 240grain or heavier bullet, or better yet learn to hand load his own ammo, and assured him that if he placed his shots carefully that a 44 mag loaded correctly would be fully adequate on any hogs as ID shot well over a dozen or more, in the last few years alone, with a similar combo and most required only one hit
it was rather obvious that the clerk was not happy with my advice as he acted like he worked on commission and he could care less what worked as long as it was expensive, he kept muttering something about the 454 cassul and 500 S&W would be better for hunting grizzles in Alaska...
I assure the guy that the 44 mag was 100% capable of shooting clear thru hogs and dropping them very effectively with the ammo suggested , then I walked away, I don,t know if he purchased the 44 mag but in my opinion it was a far better choice for the application
why does the 44 and 41 mag now get little respect

thats the second time Ive had the clerks who don,t seem, to have much experience, push the more expensive guns as options, vs the the best values , or reasonable choices get pissed off at my advice.

I keep searching for fantastic deals on "old, out-moded, no-longer-good-for-anything" revolvers, but I must never look in the right places.

I made one customer pretty angry at me when I worked behind the gun counter. He wanted to look at a S&W mountain gun that was in the case, and I lied and told him the gun was on lay away and I couldn't handle it. He asked me if I could get another one, and I told him no, and he probably wouldn't like it anyway because it recoiled too much. He was not happy and he and his wife left the store with him telling his wife what an A hole I was- That was actually what I wanted, because his wife had bought the same gun for him a few days before and had it stashed for a Christmas present. We all had a good laugh about it right after Christmas.

I've got 2 Colt Light Rifles in 30-06 now and neither shoots that well; I think I'm off of e Colt Light Rifle kick for no. But, Duke's rifle has been on GunBroker for 5+ years. I am surprised that he's kept his money tied up for so long.

When it comes to knowledgable salesman I still believe in the adage, "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". Apparently they teach something different in Business school.

Maybe we should be tipping them.

Fortunately I've got a few guys at a gun shop I deal with you are pretty dang knowledgeable for their age. I'm 43 and all but one of the guys at this shop are younger than me and shoot A LOT. They have the biggest assortment of shooting toys you could imagine.

I don't know how they have a dime to take home. They are also pretty darn handy as bowhunters too.

As much as anything, they are just nice guys who spend tons of time visiting about hunting, shooting, guns, bows, you name it. It's a fun place to kill a couple of hours.

And they have bent over backward helping me find guns and sell them at very fair prices.

There's a shop in Emporia where the owner does the same with potential customers.
Can't pull his tubby butt away from his coffee drinkin' buddies at the BS'ers table.

One of the stupidest things I ever heard actually came from a gunsmith.
I had a NM RBH in 45 Colt and asked if he thought it possible to ream the 45 ACP cylinder for 454 Casull.
His reply? Hell, if ya' want a magnum just shoot 44's in it.

I went to look for some bullets for a .243 Win I had and asked the guy behind the counter what they had. He hands me a box 95gr or 107gr SMK (can't remember which). I tell him that my barrel has a slow twist and was looking for a shorter bullet. He looks back on the shelf for a few seconds and says: "No, don't have any shorter, all the ones I have are 6mm". I thanked him and walked away!

I was in a shop a few years back and a clerk was showing me a pretty nice Springfield 03 that had just came in for sale. He pointed at the switch on the left side of the reciever and told me that it made the rifle semi auto when it was flipped down.

I was at the LGS (actually a department store, GI Joe's) several years ago. Weatherby had just introduced the Ultra Lightweight model.

I was there for spark plugs but since they didn't have what I wanted I decided to look at the guns. What real man leaves the store without looking at the guns, right?

So behind the counter are two identical-looking rifles. The only difference turned out to be the size of the hole in the barrel. One was a .270, priced at $1175. The other was a .30-06, priced at $575. Stainless fluted barrel, blued receiver, gray stock, the works.

I asked to see the .30-06 (because everyone knows that .270s are gay) and the young (and very sure of himself) expert handed it to me. I examined it carefully and asked why the price difference?

That one, he said, pointing to the .270, is the new Weatherby Ultra Lightweight. That one, he said, pointing to the .30-06, is just a Mark V.

They look exactly the same, I replied. Are you sure? Yes, that one is just a Mark V. The other is the new Ultra Lightweight. I'll take it, I said.

He wrote me up and I filled out the form. After passing the background check he passed me off to another clerk to walk me up to the register. The rifle, in the box, still had the price hang tag in the trigger guard. This became important.

Beep, said the scanner, showing $1175. Nope, I said, it's $575. They called a manager, who tried to get me to pay their cost at least. Nope, I said. See the tag? $575.

I started hunting with that rifle exclusively in 2004. If I really thought about it I could remember all the animals I've taken with it. Maybe.

Funny, I don't recall seeing that young man in the store again.



P

He was just Interviewing to be a Gun Magazine Writer

I wasn't going to add anything because everyone seems to have at least one story. However, after a trip to Bass Pro on Sunday, I can't help but add another.

I asked about a red dot scope for a handgun. The clerk told me that they only have red dot scopes for rifles. I asked what the difference was and he replied that the eye relief was different.

I saw several small red dot scopes in the case and mentioned that they look small enough for a handgun. The clerk said let me get our resident expert on red dot scopes. He returned with their expert. He pulled a couple of red dots out of the case, held them up against his eye (as close as you would hold binoculars) and stated "These will never work on a handgun".

We have a little gun shop in our valley that comes to mind when I read mule deers post.

They fancy themselves as experts in all things "tactical" in spite of not a single one of them having any sort of .mil/LE background to my knowledge.

They are quick to give their steely eyed stare and try to impress with their not so concealed handguns, flashing their iron to doubly impress customers.

I had one go on and on about FN belt fed machine guns ( I did not ask a thing about machine guns or FN) and how they should actually be deployed, as opposed to how the military's better units do so currently. I asked if he was a former armorer or spec Op operator. He informed me in a rather put off and condescending tone that he did not need to be either to know they were doing it wrong (to paraphrase and abbreviate his long winded non sense).

He explained that he had been selling guns for 6.5 years and he knew guys in the military. I asked if he had to take a test to get his ffl (yeah I know it is not nice to subtly mock people, but sometimes it is just too irresistible). He replied that he did not actually have an FFL, just worked in stores where guns were sold.

Somehow he turned the conversation to concealed carry and how he could spot guys who carried guns a mile off. He also could spot cops (who don't know anything about guns) at the same distance.

My partner had walked up and being the polite guy he is, literally laughed in this ninjas face and called him something along the lines of a fuqing maroon.

That of course really got the conversation rolling and our ninja gave us his best "mean mug".

We then proceeded to pick up the shipment of plastic guns that had been ordered for guys to use as BUGs and off duty pieces.

I thanked our genius for his unsolicited advice and we left, barely escaping with our lives.....

That place seems to hire clones of the genius we were subjected to. It is little wonder why I avoid the place like the frigging plague.

This part of the state is in desperate need of an old fashioned gun shop....

And somehow the bullet weight gets equated to powder weight, and everyone knows 180 grains is definitely more powder than 150 - although even the latter in anything shoulder-fired...yikes! [rolls-eyes icon]

Gun store in Boise with employees that can be similar. Some clerks are okay but some will glare at you and try to visually intimidate you the minute you walk in like you both owe them money and just insulted their wife/sister/mother all together.

It's a shame I don't go there as they have a huge inventory even if the prices aren't the greatest. But the owner flat out lied to me as he tried to cheat me out of a set of Ruger scope rings - said they were sold separately when Ruger had been including them free for years - so I don't go there at all any more.

Boise Gun co. Or Cliffs Guns?

Boise Gun but now that you mention it Cliff lied to me as well about a few bucks on a Lyman sizing die. I don't darken their door either. Amazing, disheartening really, to see how little it takes for people to sell their integrity.

A dickhead named Dick told me the 30-06 is a 30 caliber bullet with 106 grains of powder. He repeated this some weeks later even after being corrected the first time. Dick thinks nothing of anything or anyone but Dick. The old saying around the shop was "Dick Dick before Dick dicks you." He spent more time in the bosses office with the door closed than everyone else did doing real work. He didn't have to pull his weight like everyone else. Couldn't if he had to. I always figured he had something on the boss nobody else knew about.