http://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...hornady-leverluton-30-30-ammo-roy-opsahl

I was roped in by the thread topic, but I stayed for the Up Yours!

I am tired of the overgunned and underskilled, of the 100yd shooter and the RUM. I'm bored with it.

Send a shooter in to hunt and let him do what he can do, whatever he is carrying! Good on ya, 30-30 Guy!

I've hunted with one since 1971.

My conclusion is that it is quite capable, even of more than it's given credit for.

I've killed deer, bear, and pigs with it.

And, farther than the mystical *100* yards.

All-in-all, I like the cartridge.

Fine cartridge that is more limited by the platform it is usually found in than the cartridge itself. For years 30-30 rifles were open sighted platforms. Take your trusty 30-06 remove the scope and watch its utility drop.

I've killed a Bull moose with the .30-30 as well. Also a Black bear and A bunch of deer and turkeys. Currently though I'm loving me some belted magnums.

There have been FEW cartridges that I've owned that I've never missed.

The 30-30 is at the top of the list.
I don't rant on it or anyone using it,
It's not my cup o' tea.

The 30-30 been doing that sort of thing since 1892! While I would think long and hard about taking one on an expensive hunt like Alaska Moose, but on the other hand if I lived their like I did, such a rifle - cartridge would be ok, not perfect but what rifle cartridge is? Learn to shoot, and learn to hunt and learn were to place the bullet, we tend to go over board on these things, and I will be the first to admit that in my current hunting I am shooting way to much gun for the game, Woodland White Tails, in South Eastern CT, with a 7mm RM, a 30-30 or a 243 would be more than enough, the local deer run about 100 lbs these days, over population of them!

i love the 30/30 and use one regularly when i can pry it out of my son's hands. that said, i doubt the validity of that story. i know it will kill a moose, but that story sounds a bit out there.

The 30-30 didn't come out till 1895. I have nothing against the round, have 7-8 rifles chambered in 30-30. It works just as advertised, but no better than anything else. In fact the 7X57 is a far better round and it did come out in 1892. The 30-30 was a step backwards the day it was invented.

30-30 does just fine on everything if you do your part.

I know a guy that thinks ALL gun hunting is overkill. He's got two grissly, a moose and a polar bear by bow and arrow.
The Eskimos guiding his polar bear hunt used a 22250 for the sole "back up" rifle!
I might not be up on the newer arrow technology but call me a chicken.....I'd rather be carrying a 3030 w/good ammo than a bow on hunts like that.

A 30-30 lever gun is about the last fuggin' firearm I'd ever buy.




Travis

Get-A-Life

This is the best I can do.

Sorry.



Travis

I have one of these old relics in 30.30 that shoots 125 NBT's into tiny, tiny little knots.



Every year I manage to whack a few crows and groundhogs with it and have to say it makes me grin like 'possum eating [bleep]. My nephew used it last year to kill 2 does and they didn't act like they were offended by being shot with it instead of a super magnum. I can think of worse cartridges out there to run with.

Is that a 340?



Travis

Yes sir.

Bitchin'.




Travis

Yep, trigger has about 3 inches of creep and the stock smells like naptha. But she is a sugar.

Neat old rifle. Back in my teens I bought a Savage 340 30-30 at a yard sale for $50. It's long gone, but I wish I had kept it. Mine just had iron sights.

I have the family lever guns.
My 30-30 was reamed to UBER.
I last shot it in 1972.
It's my "go to" stick.
Thank you.

My only .30-30 is also a Savage 340. (I never liked lever guns.) Mine has an aperture receiver sight, and it is my cast-bullet rifle. Damn near the perfect cartridge for .30-caliber cast bullets: case capacity is not too big, not too small, that long neck was designed to cover grease grooves, and they've had more than a century to perfect bullet design for it. Fun, fun, fun.

Friend of mine in college back at Utah State hunted with an open sighted Savage 340 .30-30.

Preparations for hunting consisted of stopping by the sporting goods store to pick up a box of .30-30 shells on the way out to hunt. Then verify sight-in by shooting at a knot on a tree about 75-80 yards away after we pulled off the highway on the way in.

Took a deer as it ran up a slope opposite him at about 150 yards, put the bullet right between the shoulder blades and dropped it DRT.

He was about as far from being a rifle looney as you can get but he knew how to hunt and knew how to shoot.

I gotta try some cast bullets in mine. What powder and do you run a gas check on them or cast them hard?

I just happened to have some 125 NBT's on hand and said WTH I'll give them a try. Been in love with her ever since.

Have you shot any of those 190gr Buffalo Bore ammo in it?

Definitely agree on the cast bullet affinity. I'm shooting nothing but cast in my old 1955 Marlin 336 SC. The Lyman 31141 gets 2100 fps and will easily stay on an 8" ringer at 200 yards from the kneeling position - this with a 4X scope.

Although just for grins one day I took off the scope and used the issue open sights to whack a slighter bigger gong (about 12x16") 4 out of 4 shots at that same 200 yards. I'll admit here that was about half skill and half luck, but I wasn't going to tell that to the onlookers.


I believe Jack O'Connor was the fellow who quoted an Indian guide as saying "any gun good gun, shoot'em good".

Mine is an old Sauer, outside-hammer drilling with 28" barrels, and the long rifle barrel turns the old round into what might be called the .30-30 Overkill, since it's about 150 fps faster than 20" barreled carbines. It's taken deer and, with the 12-gauge barrels, Huns, sharptails and pheasants. It shoots 170-grain factory loads right to the iron sights at 100 yards--and there's not only an open rear but a folding peep in the tang of the stock.

Took my first deer with my dad's Marlin carbine, a muley doe the size of a Cape buffalo, and it dropped her instantly.

I have accomplished BOTH of those.

I have frequently killed deer between 200--390 yds with 'longer range' rifles. I've also killed deer from the base of the tree I was in--and 20 yds on out with those same rifles. I don't see 'longer range' cartridges being any handicap.

BTW I've also killed deer with 44 Mag handgun which is even shorter and 'handier'. (Pun intended) than any lever rifle.

Again, I'm not ranting, just stating preferences.

If I were ordered at gunpoint to limit myself to one rifle, it would be my M54 Winchester .30-30 bolt gun. It'll plunk ten 190 grain cast lead bullets into an inch all day long, with most going well under an inch, with 8x Unertl scope. Yank the scope and rely on the Lyman 48 and those same bullets will group respectably under 2", and make for a dandy woods deer hunting rig at 1850 fps muzzle velocity. Load it with 150 grain lead plain base bullets and a big pinch of Bullseye pistol powder, and the .30-30 makes for more plinking fun than should be allowed.

I never particularly cared for Winchester/Marlin lever guns, but the Savage 1899 is another story. Make mine a .30-30 or .303 Savage clone (oh, I did!) and again it is all a man could ask for unless pissed off Brown bears are in the offing.

The trick to reliable killing of bigger than life critters with a .30-30 is entirely in bullet selection- the heavier the better- and accurate bullet placement by a cool headed shot. Would a .30-30 or .303 savage be my first pick for a moose hunt? Probably not, but I wouldn't quake in my boots if that were the only thing available.

I'm tempted to throw the BS flag on that story. I'd have to see the bullet recovered from the vitals of the carcass to believe that it was the thutty-thutty that dropped that moose. They are known to stand there for several seconds, like nothing happened, even when hit properly with good bullets from plenty powerful cartridges, then all-of-a-sudden drop right in their tracks or keel over DRT.

I'd also want to know that the carcass was thoroughly checked to make sure it wasn't hit by both hunters before I'd put much credence in the thutty-thutty dropping it by itself.

Another thing, unless it was arranged ahead of time, if I was the other hunter, I'd have been royally pissed when ol' Roy opened up on the moose after my first shot, especially after the guide had said for ME to shoot it.

And I'm not a thutty-thutty hater, I've still got and still shoot my great-grandfather's Marlin Model 1893 take-down rifle. He carried it during the years he was an auxiliary Texas Ranger and it's documented that he killed a murderer with it that they tracked down and cornered in Arkansas, who decided to shoot it out with them. Bad decision on the murderer's part. Great-Granddaddy was known as an excellent shot with that rifle.

Back in late 20's and early 30's my Dad was killing moose with a 30-30 and that was with the commercial cartridge of the day! As to one shot kills I don't know as I was still just a twinkle in his eye. That old 30-30 put a lot of meat on the table. This happened in western Canada. Cheers NC

Keep an open mind. A few are worth owning.






And this poem from Recreation magazine in 1900 seems slightly relevant to the thread.

Yeah, I really like that 99, but would prefer another cartridge.

Sweet Rifle!

I have a few 30-30's in the stack. Couple of M94's, couple of M64's, a Marlin 336 and a Winchester M54 with factory installed receiver sight. All I shoot in them are my home cast bullets.
Someone comments that the shot 190 gr. cast in their rifle. A book if you can find it by Sam Fadala, "Winchester's 30-30, Model 94 is well worth the money. I met him once. Hell of a nice guy. Anywat he's very very fond of the 190 gr. Winchester Silvertip bullet for the .303 Sav. that "Big W" has never seen fit to sell to handloads and uses it only in one of the rare "seasonal" runs they do on that cartridge. He actually pays the uber high prices for the ammo, pulls the bullets, dumps the powder and sells the brass just to get those bullets. I've still got 100 rounds of that 303 Sav. ammo. Last I heard they were selling for around $50+ a box and probably a hell of a lot more these days. Anyway, I cast the RCBS #30-180-FN bullet for my 30-30 and in my alloy get a bullet right at 190 gr. I've taken two der with it so far but 15 others with the Lyman #311291, both bullets loaded in rge 1900 FPS range. I've always felt Winchester screwed up by not providing the 30-30 with that 190 gr. Silvertip or at least making it available to handloader. IIRC, factory .303 Sav. did about 1950 FPS from a 24" barrel and the Savage I had certainly dropped some fairly big Mule Deer quite rapidly.
I don't shoot the 30-30 much anymore as my poor old eyeballs can't properly focus on that front sight. I've since had caratract surgery so maybe the front sight will be more visible but just have not had the time to load up some ammt and go see. pun intended.
Paul B.

I've got a ratty old '94 .30-30 I bought from a biker years ago.

From the bench, it's nothing. Off hand, it's a killing mo-fo.

The thing is, with cast bullets you can duplicate factory ballistics, and in most instances exceed factory performance in a .30-30. The splatter of a flat nosed 190 soft cast bullet out of a .30-30 or .303 Savage is something to behold- and costs pennies to load- a not inconsequential benefit in this day and age of inflated ammo component costs. No bullets to be had? No problem, I'll go to the shop and cast up a big pile of them. The .30-30 is ideally suited to shooting lead because factory ballistics are within the realm of feasability in bullets made from that substance- not the case with larger cartridges. (Speaking in terms of bullets soft enough to expand reliably on game tissue, not hard-as-nails target bullets coaxed to higher velocity out of larger cases.) The .30-30 is pretty darn versatile, no matter where you get its bullets, and the fact it usually comes packaged in a light handy user-friendly package doesn't hurt either.

I'd hunt about anything in north America with one.

Yes.

One of my favorite 3030 vids.
The same guy did a shoulder through shoulder penetration vid w/a cow carcass but I can't find it. I think this guy knows 3030's!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1E4abzmvio0

I agree! and the next to the last , and the third to the last......

I knew there was something weird about you.

Here in Pennsylvania, The only big game I hunt is Deer.....with a bear thrown in there once in a while.

I currently have 3 rifles....A Winchester 94 in 30-30, a Glenfield 30AS also in 30-30 and a Remington 760 Carbine in 30/06.

For the area I hunt and the critters I may have the opportunity on, the 30-30 is really all I need. However, the '06 does offer a degree of comfort when bear are on the menu

That must be where the word polelaxed came from. Hopefully the Society for the prevention of cruelty to animals does not find out about the 30-30.

I have a 340 that is very accurate with the 170 gr. jacketed soft points. It prefers the Monarch/Privi loads.

They make "dillars" explode!

I use 7.62x39 bolt rifles more than any others. I can load 'em down or pretty much dupe the .30-30 150gr. loads.

.30/30 class rifles were standard moose, deer, and black bear medicine in the North woods for resident hunters for years. Not flashy, but for those who stalk close and pick their shots, it's enough.

That doesn't make it a good choice for most of us.

Famous guide Field Johnson carried a .30/30 when guiding JOC on a griz hunt, and after wounding a bear with an '06, I believe, and discovering he had left his spare ammo in camp, Jack took the .30/30 from Field and started after the bear. The bear let out a roar from cover, and both hunters changed their mind and came back the next day for the bear, which was dead.

Johnson was later killed by a griz while hunting moose with, guess what, a .30/30.

I have a Marlin 336 30-30 and while it almost never is used, I feel that there should be one in every gun safe. And though it is seldom used it would be adequate for the vast majority of hunting I do.

I've whacked tons of critters with the .30-30. Mostly with a 94 Trapper. Receiver sights rock. So does something around 170-180 grains, jacketed or cast. The Contender is fond of 150 gr spitzers. Praise Zeus, it only takes one shot to kill chitt with it.

I love the 30-30 and owned three at the moment two Winchester 94's and one Marlin. If more people hunted with the 30-30 they would be better hunters and Big Game Shots .

I have come to the conclusion that i could kill anything with a 22LR if I could find some ammo!!!!

Skip to about 24 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xZsgwPlLM0

I've seen them drop in their tracks when shot with a 50 grain .223 in the chest, same with 30-30's and many other cartridges.. moose are not hard to kill. Ive seen them take as many as 8 300 ultra mag rounds before they die but that's cause idiot shooting was hitting everywhere but where he should have. Id far rather be in the woods tracking a wounded grizzly with someone who knew how to use a 30-30 than someone with a 338 mag who didn't. The 30-30 has killed untold boxcar loads full of moose, elk, deer, polar, griz and black bears, buffalo, you name it over the past 100 or so years. If all I had to hunt with was a 30-30 I would have been able to kill every animal I've ever shot with other calibers just as fast and effectively with the little 30-30.

As someone who has been hunting for close to 50 years, I am often amazed at the stupidity of some posters here and other boards. You spend too much time debating the best bullet, powder or cartridge and too little time actually hunting. The 30-30 is a time tested, proven performer on various game animals in many countries.

One of the things that most of you forget is that we hunt in different parts of the world - plains, forests, hills, etc. Geography decides what's needed. Many of you post about the 30-30 or other cartridges based on extremely limited experience. Many of you feel that if it isn't any good where you hunt, it isn't worth the powder to blow it to hell. Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one. Unfortunately, these opinions are poorly thought out.

There's a lot of narrow minded thinking here.

That said, It's heartening to see that a few of you realize time afield, shot placement, patience and tracking are more important than the latest cartridge, powder, or bullet pushed by advertisers. You realize that hunting in Maine is different than Saskatchewan. Sadly, you are in the minority.

How many of you have taken a moose with a 30-30, 303 British or 300 Savage? How many of you have been bushwahed into thinking that these cartridges are incapable of dropping a deer or a moose?

Say good night Gracie...

Good night Gracie. Ahh memories. I miss that cigar-smoking, Coke-bottle-bottom-glasses-wearing guy.

Steve, over the last couple years, I've been loading my 30-06 with cast bullets to the power levels you mention. I won't be shooting a moose anytime soon, but I know it is really easy to shoot well with 30-30, 303 Brit, and 300 Savage noise and recoil. I haven't hunted with these loads, but that is as much the animals' fault as anything. Range is the only limitation. Certainly not effectiveness on animals. I pine for the time when a 300 RUM was not in the hands of 1/2 of the yayhoos I see out hunting during elk season. Maybe that is 100% of the yayhoos who are carrying the RUM.

A 30-30 is not the best for cross canyon shots, or any other longer range affair. It is entirely adequate for the closer ranges most deer and many other animals are taken. For a period of 6 or 7 years a 94 Winchester in 30-30 was what I used for deer hunting here at home, not because I didn't have a "better" rifle but because I liked hunting with home cast bullets. In that length of time I killed several deer including some nice bucks with a Lyman 311041GC bullet and never had one go over 30 yards after the shot. One buck was hit from the front in the chest, the bullet cut diagonally through, coming to rest under the hide of the opposite "ham". Full length penetration from a cast lead bullet running just under 2000 fps at the muzzle. The buck tried to whirl around, lost his footing and fell, kicked a couple times and that was it. Blood shot meat was at a minimum on all those deer, not sure why I went back to more "modern" arms. Sold that 94 because it had the most god awful trigger I'd ever used. Maybe I need a decent Marlin, I've still got quite a few of those cast bullets left.

Save those cast bullets for a Winchester or a Savage. The Marlin micro-groove rifling makes for a challenging proposition when making cast bullets work. It can be done, of course, but not without some cast bullet skullduggery. Now, the Ballard-style rifling in some Marlins is another story.

Not a writer.....

I had read all the BS about the .30-30 not being enough gun. In the seventies, I was part of an investigation team working a double murder where the victims were ambushed by an assailant using a .30-30. The notes are long gone into the archives. I don't recall the brand/grain bullets, and the distance was about 45 yards.

I was the officer attending the autopsies. What I saw gave me a totally new respect for the round. True enough, it is not a long range round partially due to round or flat nosed bullets, but be assured the bullets are perfectly matched to the velocity within normal ranges. Victim 1 was almost decapitated and never knew what happened. Victim 2 looked like a small grenade exploded in his chest cavity and could not have retained consciousness for more than several seconds.

Today, I own four, all in different Marlin configurations.

jack

Yep, seen a lot of moose and elk dropped with a 30-30 not to mention black bears and deer including huge northern BC mule deer.

Never crossed my mind that it wasn't enough gun. Amused and slightly surprised is my response to anyone who thinks the 30-30 isn't up to cleanly killing N. America's largest animals.

My dad bought me a 30-30 Savage 340 in 1958 or '59. Open sights, good shooter. Killed my first deer and first elk with it. Both of my two sons killed their first big game with it, a mule deer and a black bear. I won't get it back.

Question (and not trying to be contentious): Wouldn't bullet design for the .30-30 be just about perfected after 100+ years?

Steve, I also very much appreciate your reminder that our individual hunting environment is an essential element in what works for us (or doesn't). I've posted before my beef with some of the professional gunscribes making blanket comments about what works or doesn't, minimum calibers, etc., without ever taking the environment into account.

I think bullets for the 30-30 have been good'nuf for most of that 100+ years. The exposed lead flat and round nosed cup&cores are ideal for open sighted guns (short ranges) and modest velocities. Certainly the 30-30 benefits from more modern bullets, but it doesn't need them to be all that it can be.

I've never been a big fan of the .30-30.....nor have I particularly disliked it either. It performs very well, if unspectacularly.

The .30-30 gained it's reputation, not because of it's outstanding ballistics, but more because of the firearms it was chambered in. My problem is that there are better (in my mind) rounds available in ther same guns. In traditional lever rifles I much prefer the .35 Remington, .375 Winchester and even the .32 Special over the more commom .30-30. I do own a few .30-30 rifles and certainly don't feel unarmed with guns so chambered.....but it isn't my first choice.

ROFL... yeah, I have guns like that, that I love!

In the intervening 12 years since the incident, I have become sanguine in regards to 30-30. However, back in 2002, I had about as disappointing an experience with a cartridge as you can have.

The details are here:
Ode to a 30-30 PT III

That was my last hunt with the Marlin and the 30 WCF. The next year I had a Savage 99 in 308 Win, and I have never regretted the change. My reconciliation with the Thutty-Thutty has been slow and I have to thank my friends at the 'Fire for their help. Some day, I may even hunt with it again.

Let me list the things that have allowed me to soften my opinion:

1) In 2005, I had a somewhat similar occurrence with a 35 Whelen. Despite several shots at 80 yards at a standing buck that completely removed the heart and lungs, the buck managed to remain on his feet. I was about to put in a 4th shot when he fell over. I was left to conclude that there are some deer that just do not want to die.
2) My son, Mooseboy, finally fessed up after reaching adulthood that he had been closing his eyes before pulling the trigger. That accounts for the deer that ran away magically on our early Yute hunts together with that rifle.
3) Honorable #3 son, Angus, managed to whack a doe in 2009 with the Marlin, with a load suggested by Campfire alum, Adobe Walls. I still keep Winchester PowerPoints in 150 grain in my inventory should the need arise.

Moose is now grown and has a family, consisting of MooseMama and Mooselette. MooseMama tried the Marlin last summer and really liked it. I am eagerly awaiting the time she comes deer hunting.

I don't think asking the nay-sayers "how many moose have you shot with a .30-30" is a good way to win an argument. Its no different than " how many deer with a .223" or "how many elk with a .243" arguments that guys use on here. If you've been around guns enough you have pretty fair idea what to expect from a given cartridge/bullet combo on a given animal. I have killed a mature Bull Moose with a .30-30 and it worked just as I suspected. Adequate, but not dazzling. The .30-06 and .450 Marlin have been a lot more impressive for me on Moose. I feel the .30-30 is about right for whitetails in the woods.

I used one for years and the first cf rifle I owned. I currently have 2 in Marlin 336's. The last 10 years or so, they get used very little as I went to lightweight bolt guns and current favorite is in 7mm-08. With the type of hunting I do in New England the 30-30 would cover about 90%.

They have been getting it done for over a century as did the 32 special and 35 rem, they used to be toted as handy and quick to bring into action but the factory bolt guns out there now do a better job for me. I will say, if all guns had to go, the last would be that first 30-30 given to me when I was 12 by my Dad

shaman,

If we hunt long enough we will run into animals that really don't want to die, despite being hit precisely in the vitals, even with Wonder Bullets. I've probably seen it with pronghorns more than deer, but deer will definitely resist going gently into that good night.

Once shot a big mule deer buck at about 275 yards with a 160-grain bullet from a 7x57, muzzle velocity about 2700 fps. This would seem to be sufficient, and at first it looked like it was. The buck was quartering, and I put it in the left shoulder to go back through the chest cavity. The buck staggered around a few seconds and then fell.

Low brush covered the ground and he fell behind some. As I walked up, expecting find him laid out peacefully, his head was up, and as I approached he stood and started running away. I put another bullet between his cheeks, which dropped him.

The first bullet had gone right where it was supposed to, traversing the chest and doing much damage, ending up under the hide under the short ribs on the other side, perfectly mushroomed.

But he did not want to die--and that was just one example. Also saw a big buck pronghorn take several 120-grain .25 caliber bullets in the chest before he gave up, and after the first one a wide spout of blood was pulsing out of his chest, through the exit wound just behind his shoulder. In neither instance was the fault the cartridge's or the bullet's or the shooter's.

Have also seen the opposite a few times, when much bigger animals dropped more-or-less instantly to bullets through the chest cavity, bullets that would be regarded as inadequate by many members of the Campfire. Dunno what causes that either, but am far more puzzled when they keep living when their lungs and heart are essentially gone.

My late father drilled a deer broadside through the chest cavity with a first generation Ballistic Tip, a 130 grain powered by a full charge of H4831 from a 26" barreled 270. The distance was inside 200 yards IIRC.

Dad was impressed by the liquefied thoracic contents blown out of the far side of the deer, and by the distance the deer was able to run despite having mush for plumbing.

gnoahhh
Do you add a gas check or shoot just as cast and lubed, if unchcked do you get any leadding? What is the hardness of your cast bullets, sorry if you listed it I missed it. Thanks for your time. Cheers NC

I think Ingwe would say that the problem is obvious - 270!

Thanks for the kind words, Mister B.

It was funny, but I had a bunch of squirrely instances in about a 3 year period, and then the deer went back to dying the way they should. Looking back on it, I realize that anyone who has never seen such an anomaly just hasn't hunted enough. However, at the time, I felt jinxed and my rifles haunted.

I saw two instances in my teens of animals well hit with a 270 and 130's that didn't act hit. One deer and one antelope, ranges 200-250 yds, shot behind the foreleg broadside, utterly destroying the heart on the antelope, and blowing the top off on the deer. The antelope took off running, and went many hundreds of yds. We knew he was hit well though, and were able to watch him bleeding as he ran off, and finally fall. The deer, a big doe, just kept walking along the game trail and around a rock outcrop. There were several guys standing around watching that said that she didn't get hit. We all saw the rock behind her get hit with the bullet. Sadly, My step-brother on the trigger took off up the mtn after the deer, and ended up shooting another near the top of the mtn. On the way back down the mtn with his deer, we came across the doe. She had walked just out of sight and collapsed. I don't fault the cartridge. In both instances, it performed perfectly.

Now back to "30-30's Are Awesome!"

You'll want a gas check for any regular velocity 30/30 load. I've pushed gas checked 170gr FN (really weigh in around 180grs) to 2150fps or so, with no leading at all.
I water drop mine out of the mold, and size to .309" which works for my M94.
I'm not really a huge M94 fan though (lever throw is too long for my short stubby t-rex arms), so I don't shoot it much aside from deer hunting.

While I've shot a few pipsqueak loads (<1000 fps) with bare-base cast bullets in the .30-30 and .30 Herrett, accuracy wasn't great. I put gas checks on all .30-cal cast bullets now, with remarkable improvement.

Thanks for the cogent, reasoned, and experience-based comments, Steve. I don't think I've ever killed a single head of game with a .30-30, but I have done so with a .30 Herrett. In my opinion (flame suit on!) the .30-30 is a perfectly adequate cartridge for a hunter. It's not a good choice for some sniper wannabe who practices on living game.

That is an excellent post.

The 30-30 is alive and well in the Canadian North boreal forest with Indian hunters.
They like the the portability of the iron sighted lever guns chambered for it and have no complaints about the lethality of the 30-30 within its range. Most of their moose are shot well within 100 yards.
Most say that it is effective out to 200 yards for moose, caribou and bears.

They work pretty well in single shots, too, with pointy bullets:



Ken Waters made the point in Pet Loads that the .30-30 by itself was nothing remarkable. What made it so successful was the chambering in lightweight, handy, slim Model 94's. For people who wanted a gun as simply a versatile tool, the Model 94 fit its niche perfectly, which is why several million were sold. And even though the Wild West had mostly passed by the time of its introduction, it was still capable of being a decisive defensive weapon. It may not be ideal for Griz, but will indeed kill big critters, if the bullets are well placed at reasonable range. And does so with decent economy.

My Contender is a neat little Texas deer rifle, and entirely adequate for small deer at short to moderate ranges. I never did warm up much to the Model 94, but the Savage 1899's and early Marlin 336's have a lot of class about them. One of these days I need to acquire a strong modern single shot in the caliber. I expect handloading with pointed bullets could stretch its range a little.

Yep; that's it right there. Those who obsess over ballistics tables are not going to find it satisfying. Those who like to get close before killing stuff will.

I love my model 94 w/ Williams FP & high-vis front blade. Still hunting with it is pure joy; by far the most carryable rifle out there IMHO.

No flames from this direction, and I think you have good point.

It really depends on your perspective. Me? Before picking up a 30-30, I had been out for 20-some seasons taking deer with 30-06 and 12 GA deer slug. To me, hunting was sending a slug lengthwise through a deer at 10 feet and watching it come out the other end in slow motion.

Growing up in Ohio, boys dreamed of a Remington 1100 with rifle sights, not 30-30's. So it was really easy to write off the 30 WCF after a brief flirtation.

The .32 Special outclasses the .30-30 in every aspect

DeFlave you are sick, twisted and perverted....and have incredible one-liners

I use my .30-30 for cowboy silhouette (with cast bullets) and have a literal blast (only knock the rams down about 20% of the time - but I can see/hear the hits which is all I care about). Have never killed anything with the .30-30 (have with the .32 special though) but millions of others have and I sure would'nt be afraid to use it on just about anything - like others have said put the bullets in the right place (which is a challenge for some - thus justifying that poor shooting can be replaced by a cartridge that is bigger and faster - compounded by watching to many "hunting" shows ) and it will be "way over kill"!!

PennDog

I use the same setup on mine with the Williams "Firesight" fiber optic. It really glows even in low light, which is a big help to my aging eyes. I expect I'll be "graduating" to a M336 before long, though, since it's easier to mount a 1-4x. I miss my eyes!

I haven't been with out a 30-30 for over 40 years, except for a 4 month period after my oldest sister killed her moose with my Marlin. one shot 60 yards with a gummie tip. after 4 months she gave the gun back. 30-30 is not a sexy round on paper, but for meat accumulated I'd bet it ranks in the top 5. excluding elephant meat of course.
I had a 340 savage one time that for some reason kicked worse than a mule. never slugged the barrel but suspicion a tight bore.
could never get accurate with it because of the anticipation of pain(flinch?). traded it off for a lyman tumbler. the next one I picked up shot like a dream and has ever since.
on my bucket list is a 99 savage in 30-30. do I need one, no, but what does need have to do with anything pertaining to guns?
here is them moose killer.

I like the butt plate on that 30-30.

I have a '99 Savage 30-30 takedown with a tip off mount. I have owned Winchester and Marlin. Winchester is by far the worst. They rattle a lot. Marlin is well made, but heavy. I have used the 99' 30-30 a few times and it is OK., but I would rather use my .300 Savage.

Was in the deep woods on a foggy morning, watching a nice fork horn moving toward me. I was hoping to bag the 10 pointer I'd been dancing with all season but really wanted some meat in the freezer.

Anyway, I watched him move in to about 20 yards. I only had a single round. After a moment of consideration I raised my 94 to port arms and shook it real hard. The buck's eyes rolled up and I guess he had a heart attack.

There are several reasons the Model 94 and the .30-30 are legends. Being able to rattle down some grub is just one of them.

I got the 10 pointer 2 days later with a butt stroke. Had to use my bullet the day before to foil a bank robbery.

Dan

Yeah I know. It's really the standard story for m94's in 30-30.

With other chamberings, sometimes you have to toss an empty toward the animal/bank robber, and they either give up the ghost or offer to wax your car.

I was sold on the platform/cartridge after it single-handedly ended the cold war by collapsing the USSR.

30-30 M94 for President!

just finished that one. butt stock was broke by the wanna be ninja I got it from. not bench friendly with top end loads.

Good stuff for a butt stroke though.

Never had anyone offer to wax my car that I recall, but my hearing isn't what it used to be.

wonder if a Stevens 44 1/2 is strong enough for a .30-30?

maybe a 32-40?

Question of metallurgy maybe? The CPA 44-1/2; yes. The original, I dunno.

LMAO

Was a true story.

Noe Schitt.

Sorry I didn't back to you. Stomach virus/food poisoning had me laid out for a couple days.

I shoot plain base (PB) bullets of 150 grains in plinking loads of 1000-1400fps. Anything above and beyond that gets a bullet designed for a gas check (GC) and a gas check gets installed. PB bullets are cast from an an alloy that yields a hardness of 8-10bhn. Heavy hunting bullets are 10-14 bhn, cast from wheel weights and not water quenched or heat treated as I want to guarantee expansion at the impact velocity of 16-1800 fps that you get from a .30/30 cast load at 100 yards or beyond. I used to worship at the altar of hard cast bullets until I found that proper bullet fit and a good lube will allow fine accuracy, no leading, and clean killing from a relatively soft bullet.

What was that rather hilarious debate a few years ago right here regarding bullets that "pencil through"? Well, the only time I had a bad experience of that nature was 35 years ago with 180 grain round nose cast bullets made from monotype (hard as sin, probably 21-25bhn), driven at .30/30 velocity from an '06. It took four of them driven through a dink's chest to kill it- it kept getting back up. Heartsick, I almost gave up on cast bullets for hunting, until I analyzed the problem. Switching to softer alloys and minding my P's and Q's when selecting/sizing bullets and their alloys made the difference.

Funny story: Back in 2001, I hired a plumber to come in and get my newly purchased deer camp plumbed out. I got a call at work a few days into the project:

"This is Dave, your plumber."

"Yes, Dave."

"Sorry to bother you, but I saw something you probably need to be aware of."

"Yes, what is it?"

"Well, I started hearing shooting outside and I went out and there was your neighbor up the road. He was in his bathrobe and his underwear and he was out on his deck firing at a herd of deer that were on your property. There was about seven of 'em."

"Yes, he's prone to that."

"Well, Sir, he ran out of bullets in his 30-30 and went back inside. The deer didn't pay him no mind. A little later he came back out and started firing at the deer again."

"Did he hit anything?"

"I don't think so. The deer didn't seem to care, but he did finally manage to make them run off. He ran through a box or more."

"Yes," I said. "That's R____, and I probably need to talk to him about it, but he never seems to hit anything. Thanks for letting me know."

Indians matter. Arrows not so much.

Yep, tell that to the handful of deer that have met my 32-20 and a few pigs and javelina too... none survived, none traveled very far....

Sling a Judo head at a hog and let me know how that pans out.

Lyman 311041. It's heavy, weighing 176 gr. with a GC.

Or this. It works on everything.

311041? Right. Every time.



The other right one is some sort of 7mm bullet that tripped in a box of hula hoops. 285something or another...

BD

well, shucks. I got outbid on the auction, anyway

I have run a 44� in .32-40 with 170 jacketed loads up to 1900 fps. Nothing failed, including the doe I shot with it

The CPA would be appealing. Not cheap but certainly a quality piece.

Did ya try shakin' the gun at the doe? Maybe not, those old 44-1/2's don't rattle much.

My son after he got back from his last tour in Afghanistan told me he had a lot more respect for a a 30-30. When I asked him why? He said, �he got shot in the ribs with a 7.62x39 bullet FMJ and that the bullet went through 2 layers of Kevlar and it was stop by the steel plate.� He showed me the steel plate,
it had a dent about a 1/2� around and about a 1/4� deep. He said, �it knocked him flat on his back and broke 2 ribs.�

I said, �Son, I've been trying to tell you that 18 years.�

165 gr LEVERevoluton ammo makes the 30-30 a 200 yard rifle.

Would I hunt moose a 30-30? NO, I would with 30-06 and a 180 gr Partition.

Cole k. Wow sorry he found out the hard way but thank God it sounds like all ended well. Tell him we appreciate his service and welcome home from the fire. Hope he never has to shoot at an than anything besides big bucks the rest of his life.

This is a true story. No, really!



Disguised as one of 'the other guys', here I am taking pictures of roe deer droppings near Braunschweig, circa 1973.

In 1973, I was stationed with the army in Europe. I belonged to a unit that specialized in covert insurgent patrols, the type of which became known as black ops. Our missions were always straight forward, but dangerous. We were known by others in the unit as 'the fence sitters' because we always operated inside East Germany, literally within "spitting distance" of the fence. In those days, there was constant Communist activity along the border. The Commies were always trying to spy on us, and we were always doing the same.

Operations of this nature weren't your standard 'hop the barb wire and take pictures' sort of thing. Our assignments certainly involved picture taking, but there was much more. Radio surveillance, demolitions, strategic personnel eliminations, troop and special equipment movements were all part of the job. And of course, contacts with locals were equally as important. East German civilians were the best source of equipment movements and whether or not a sector was quiet or not. They had a unique perspective on what the military was doing right where they lived. Because I spoke six languages fluently, I was fast tracked into the unit almost right out of basic.

These operations generally lasted several days, but despite what you might have read in the newspapers, they were conducted in whatever manner was required to get the job done. We were not at war with East Germany, but had we been caught there dressed as civilians, who knows what would have happened to us. We all knew that, at best, we would spend a long time in prison. At the worst, we would have been shot.

There is no doubt that if they had caught us, we would have been held up in front of the cameras for the whole world to see.

We didn't carry standard sidearms or rifles. We were careful to use civilian cartridges like the 5.6�35mmR, 243 Winchester or the 30-30. About then, US hunting magazine sales in Europe were on the rise. These publications convinced many hunters to abandon their traditional rifles and cartridges for something American. Older stuff like the 6.5 Swede and the 7 or 9.2 Mausers were being used less and less. For that reason, I opted to carry a 30-30.

It's a little known fact that our military did not provide the arms or cartridges we used on the other side of the wire. We purchased firearms and ammunition from overseas base rod and gun clubs. Everything was kept in our unit lock up.

I carried papers identifying me as Willem Gutscher, citizen of Braunschweig, a border city near the east-west German frontier. The whole area was heavily fortified and perennially a hotbed of covert activities into the 1990s. The guys talked about this a million times, but if caught, we were convinced that our clothes and papers would fool the East German guards. They would think we were hunters who accidentally wandered over the fence while chasing roe deer. It sounds naive now, but we believed we could pull it off.

The closest we ever got to capture was the day we were moving past an East German observation tower. We were just out of sight of the guards there, when a roe deer scooted out of a small thicket and attempted to run from us. I should have known better, but the 30-30 went to my shoulder and I got a clean heart-lung shot from about 350 meters away. My buddy watched the animal drop right on the spot.

Roe deer don't weigh much. I figured mine went about 40 lb. We decided to pick up the carcass and cross over the fence back into West Germany for a BBQ. The 170 gr. bullet destroyed the heart and there was a lot of blood. Making the shot was a breeze. My specialized training, coupled with great weather (it was a bright sunny day) made it almost too easy. As well, having a spotter - a highly trained operative watching everything through his binoculars - made recovering the deer a snap.

40 lb is easy to carry over your shoulders when you're a young, physically fit man. It's quite another thing to have to run with it and your gear when you're being chased! A couple of minutes after I picked up the deer, we heard vehicles approaching at a high rate of speed. The three of us picked up the pace, knowing that we had to make the half mile to the fence before the East Germans got there.

My number two spotted several military trucks closing on our position. They didn't quite know where we were, but you can bet that their people were glassing the fields and trees for any sign of us.

By that time, we were maybe 100 meters from the barbed wire. We could hear dogs and men moving towards us from either side of our position. Luckily, I kept a pair of wire cutters in my small pack for just such an occasion. With seconds to spare, I managed to cut through three layers of fencing and we crossed unmolested back into West Germany and safety.

The guards found our way out, but did not pursue us. They made some radio calls, but their chain of command probably stood them down. Chock another one up for the good guys!

That particular mission taught me a few things. The most important of course was always knowing the way out when you're being chased. The second was knowing that moderate range shots - like the one I took to harvest that roe deer - are a piece of cake with a 30-30. Of course, you have to be trained and highly skilled, but that goes without saying.

Finally, carrying that old Winchester made me understand why the 30-30 tamed the west. From that day on, it's all I've ever used to hunt game everywhere on the planet.

Cole . thank God you son was able to show the "trophy's " to you.
thank him for me for his service. as far as 30-30 being a moose round, my 73 year old sister got her moose with a 30-30 loaded with gummie points. one shot at 60 yards and he went 8 feet.
only thing she has ever shot, had to start at the top!