Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 30/30 Overkill?????

ROFL... yeah, I have guns like that, that I love!

In the intervening 12 years since the incident, I have become sanguine in regards to 30-30. However, back in 2002, I had about as disappointing an experience with a cartridge as you can have.

The details are here:
Ode to a 30-30 PT III

That was my last hunt with the Marlin and the 30 WCF. The next year I had a Savage 99 in 308 Win, and I have never regretted the change. My reconciliation with the Thutty-Thutty has been slow and I have to thank my friends at the 'Fire for their help. Some day, I may even hunt with it again.

Let me list the things that have allowed me to soften my opinion:

1) In 2005, I had a somewhat similar occurrence with a 35 Whelen. Despite several shots at 80 yards at a standing buck that completely removed the heart and lungs, the buck managed to remain on his feet. I was about to put in a 4th shot when he fell over. I was left to conclude that there are some deer that just do not want to die.
2) My son, Mooseboy, finally fessed up after reaching adulthood that he had been closing his eyes before pulling the trigger. That accounts for the deer that ran away magically on our early Yute hunts together with that rifle.
3) Honorable #3 son, Angus, managed to whack a doe in 2009 with the Marlin, with a load suggested by Campfire alum, Adobe Walls. I still keep Winchester PowerPoints in 150 grain in my inventory should the need arise.

Moose is now grown and has a family, consisting of MooseMama and Mooselette. MooseMama tried the Marlin last summer and really liked it. I am eagerly awaiting the time she comes deer hunting.

I don't think asking the nay-sayers "how many moose have you shot with a .30-30" is a good way to win an argument. Its no different than " how many deer with a .223" or "how many elk with a .243" arguments that guys use on here. If you've been around guns enough you have pretty fair idea what to expect from a given cartridge/bullet combo on a given animal. I have killed a mature Bull Moose with a .30-30 and it worked just as I suspected. Adequate, but not dazzling. The .30-06 and .450 Marlin have been a lot more impressive for me on Moose. I feel the .30-30 is about right for whitetails in the woods.

I used one for years and the first cf rifle I owned. I currently have 2 in Marlin 336's. The last 10 years or so, they get used very little as I went to lightweight bolt guns and current favorite is in 7mm-08. With the type of hunting I do in New England the 30-30 would cover about 90%.

They have been getting it done for over a century as did the 32 special and 35 rem, they used to be toted as handy and quick to bring into action but the factory bolt guns out there now do a better job for me. I will say, if all guns had to go, the last would be that first 30-30 given to me when I was 12 by my Dad

shaman,

If we hunt long enough we will run into animals that really don't want to die, despite being hit precisely in the vitals, even with Wonder Bullets. I've probably seen it with pronghorns more than deer, but deer will definitely resist going gently into that good night.

Once shot a big mule deer buck at about 275 yards with a 160-grain bullet from a 7x57, muzzle velocity about 2700 fps. This would seem to be sufficient, and at first it looked like it was. The buck was quartering, and I put it in the left shoulder to go back through the chest cavity. The buck staggered around a few seconds and then fell.

Low brush covered the ground and he fell behind some. As I walked up, expecting find him laid out peacefully, his head was up, and as I approached he stood and started running away. I put another bullet between his cheeks, which dropped him.

The first bullet had gone right where it was supposed to, traversing the chest and doing much damage, ending up under the hide under the short ribs on the other side, perfectly mushroomed.

But he did not want to die--and that was just one example. Also saw a big buck pronghorn take several 120-grain .25 caliber bullets in the chest before he gave up, and after the first one a wide spout of blood was pulsing out of his chest, through the exit wound just behind his shoulder. In neither instance was the fault the cartridge's or the bullet's or the shooter's.

Have also seen the opposite a few times, when much bigger animals dropped more-or-less instantly to bullets through the chest cavity, bullets that would be regarded as inadequate by many members of the Campfire. Dunno what causes that either, but am far more puzzled when they keep living when their lungs and heart are essentially gone.

My late father drilled a deer broadside through the chest cavity with a first generation Ballistic Tip, a 130 grain powered by a full charge of H4831 from a 26" barreled 270. The distance was inside 200 yards IIRC.

Dad was impressed by the liquefied thoracic contents blown out of the far side of the deer, and by the distance the deer was able to run despite having mush for plumbing.

gnoahhh
Do you add a gas check or shoot just as cast and lubed, if unchcked do you get any leadding? What is the hardness of your cast bullets, sorry if you listed it I missed it. Thanks for your time. Cheers NC

I think Ingwe would say that the problem is obvious - 270!

Thanks for the kind words, Mister B.

It was funny, but I had a bunch of squirrely instances in about a 3 year period, and then the deer went back to dying the way they should. Looking back on it, I realize that anyone who has never seen such an anomaly just hasn't hunted enough. However, at the time, I felt jinxed and my rifles haunted.

I saw two instances in my teens of animals well hit with a 270 and 130's that didn't act hit. One deer and one antelope, ranges 200-250 yds, shot behind the foreleg broadside, utterly destroying the heart on the antelope, and blowing the top off on the deer. The antelope took off running, and went many hundreds of yds. We knew he was hit well though, and were able to watch him bleeding as he ran off, and finally fall. The deer, a big doe, just kept walking along the game trail and around a rock outcrop. There were several guys standing around watching that said that she didn't get hit. We all saw the rock behind her get hit with the bullet. Sadly, My step-brother on the trigger took off up the mtn after the deer, and ended up shooting another near the top of the mtn. On the way back down the mtn with his deer, we came across the doe. She had walked just out of sight and collapsed. I don't fault the cartridge. In both instances, it performed perfectly.

Now back to "30-30's Are Awesome!"

You'll want a gas check for any regular velocity 30/30 load. I've pushed gas checked 170gr FN (really weigh in around 180grs) to 2150fps or so, with no leading at all.
I water drop mine out of the mold, and size to .309" which works for my M94.
I'm not really a huge M94 fan though (lever throw is too long for my short stubby t-rex arms), so I don't shoot it much aside from deer hunting.

While I've shot a few pipsqueak loads (<1000 fps) with bare-base cast bullets in the .30-30 and .30 Herrett, accuracy wasn't great. I put gas checks on all .30-cal cast bullets now, with remarkable improvement.

Thanks for the cogent, reasoned, and experience-based comments, Steve. I don't think I've ever killed a single head of game with a .30-30, but I have done so with a .30 Herrett. In my opinion (flame suit on!) the .30-30 is a perfectly adequate cartridge for a hunter. It's not a good choice for some sniper wannabe who practices on living game.

That is an excellent post.

The 30-30 is alive and well in the Canadian North boreal forest with Indian hunters.
They like the the portability of the iron sighted lever guns chambered for it and have no complaints about the lethality of the 30-30 within its range. Most of their moose are shot well within 100 yards.
Most say that it is effective out to 200 yards for moose, caribou and bears.

They work pretty well in single shots, too, with pointy bullets:



Ken Waters made the point in Pet Loads that the .30-30 by itself was nothing remarkable. What made it so successful was the chambering in lightweight, handy, slim Model 94's. For people who wanted a gun as simply a versatile tool, the Model 94 fit its niche perfectly, which is why several million were sold. And even though the Wild West had mostly passed by the time of its introduction, it was still capable of being a decisive defensive weapon. It may not be ideal for Griz, but will indeed kill big critters, if the bullets are well placed at reasonable range. And does so with decent economy.

My Contender is a neat little Texas deer rifle, and entirely adequate for small deer at short to moderate ranges. I never did warm up much to the Model 94, but the Savage 1899's and early Marlin 336's have a lot of class about them. One of these days I need to acquire a strong modern single shot in the caliber. I expect handloading with pointed bullets could stretch its range a little.

Yep; that's it right there. Those who obsess over ballistics tables are not going to find it satisfying. Those who like to get close before killing stuff will.

I love my model 94 w/ Williams FP & high-vis front blade. Still hunting with it is pure joy; by far the most carryable rifle out there IMHO.

No flames from this direction, and I think you have good point.

It really depends on your perspective. Me? Before picking up a 30-30, I had been out for 20-some seasons taking deer with 30-06 and 12 GA deer slug. To me, hunting was sending a slug lengthwise through a deer at 10 feet and watching it come out the other end in slow motion.

Growing up in Ohio, boys dreamed of a Remington 1100 with rifle sights, not 30-30's. So it was really easy to write off the 30 WCF after a brief flirtation.

The .32 Special outclasses the .30-30 in every aspect

DeFlave you are sick, twisted and perverted....and have incredible one-liners

I use my .30-30 for cowboy silhouette (with cast bullets) and have a literal blast (only knock the rams down about 20% of the time - but I can see/hear the hits which is all I care about). Have never killed anything with the .30-30 (have with the .32 special though) but millions of others have and I sure would'nt be afraid to use it on just about anything - like others have said put the bullets in the right place (which is a challenge for some - thus justifying that poor shooting can be replaced by a cartridge that is bigger and faster - compounded by watching to many "hunting" shows ) and it will be "way over kill"!!

PennDog

I use the same setup on mine with the Williams "Firesight" fiber optic. It really glows even in low light, which is a big help to my aging eyes. I expect I'll be "graduating" to a M336 before long, though, since it's easier to mount a 1-4x. I miss my eyes!

I haven't been with out a 30-30 for over 40 years, except for a 4 month period after my oldest sister killed her moose with my Marlin. one shot 60 yards with a gummie tip. after 4 months she gave the gun back. 30-30 is not a sexy round on paper, but for meat accumulated I'd bet it ranks in the top 5. excluding elephant meat of course.
I had a 340 savage one time that for some reason kicked worse than a mule. never slugged the barrel but suspicion a tight bore.
could never get accurate with it because of the anticipation of pain(flinch?). traded it off for a lyman tumbler. the next one I picked up shot like a dream and has ever since.
on my bucket list is a 99 savage in 30-30. do I need one, no, but what does need have to do with anything pertaining to guns?
here is them moose killer.