Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 30/30 Overkill?????

My son after he got back from his last tour in Afghanistan told me he had a lot more respect for a a 30-30. When I asked him why? He said, �he got shot in the ribs with a 7.62x39 bullet FMJ and that the bullet went through 2 layers of Kevlar and it was stop by the steel plate.� He showed me the steel plate,
it had a dent about a 1/2� around and about a 1/4� deep. He said, �it knocked him flat on his back and broke 2 ribs.�

I said, �Son, I've been trying to tell you that 18 years.�

165 gr LEVERevoluton ammo makes the 30-30 a 200 yard rifle.

Would I hunt moose a 30-30? NO, I would with 30-06 and a 180 gr Partition.

Cole k. Wow sorry he found out the hard way but thank God it sounds like all ended well. Tell him we appreciate his service and welcome home from the fire. Hope he never has to shoot at an than anything besides big bucks the rest of his life.

This is a true story. No, really!



Disguised as one of 'the other guys', here I am taking pictures of roe deer droppings near Braunschweig, circa 1973.

In 1973, I was stationed with the army in Europe. I belonged to a unit that specialized in covert insurgent patrols, the type of which became known as black ops. Our missions were always straight forward, but dangerous. We were known by others in the unit as 'the fence sitters' because we always operated inside East Germany, literally within "spitting distance" of the fence. In those days, there was constant Communist activity along the border. The Commies were always trying to spy on us, and we were always doing the same.

Operations of this nature weren't your standard 'hop the barb wire and take pictures' sort of thing. Our assignments certainly involved picture taking, but there was much more. Radio surveillance, demolitions, strategic personnel eliminations, troop and special equipment movements were all part of the job. And of course, contacts with locals were equally as important. East German civilians were the best source of equipment movements and whether or not a sector was quiet or not. They had a unique perspective on what the military was doing right where they lived. Because I spoke six languages fluently, I was fast tracked into the unit almost right out of basic.

These operations generally lasted several days, but despite what you might have read in the newspapers, they were conducted in whatever manner was required to get the job done. We were not at war with East Germany, but had we been caught there dressed as civilians, who knows what would have happened to us. We all knew that, at best, we would spend a long time in prison. At the worst, we would have been shot.

There is no doubt that if they had caught us, we would have been held up in front of the cameras for the whole world to see.

We didn't carry standard sidearms or rifles. We were careful to use civilian cartridges like the 5.6�35mmR, 243 Winchester or the 30-30. About then, US hunting magazine sales in Europe were on the rise. These publications convinced many hunters to abandon their traditional rifles and cartridges for something American. Older stuff like the 6.5 Swede and the 7 or 9.2 Mausers were being used less and less. For that reason, I opted to carry a 30-30.

It's a little known fact that our military did not provide the arms or cartridges we used on the other side of the wire. We purchased firearms and ammunition from overseas base rod and gun clubs. Everything was kept in our unit lock up.

I carried papers identifying me as Willem Gutscher, citizen of Braunschweig, a border city near the east-west German frontier. The whole area was heavily fortified and perennially a hotbed of covert activities into the 1990s. The guys talked about this a million times, but if caught, we were convinced that our clothes and papers would fool the East German guards. They would think we were hunters who accidentally wandered over the fence while chasing roe deer. It sounds naive now, but we believed we could pull it off.

The closest we ever got to capture was the day we were moving past an East German observation tower. We were just out of sight of the guards there, when a roe deer scooted out of a small thicket and attempted to run from us. I should have known better, but the 30-30 went to my shoulder and I got a clean heart-lung shot from about 350 meters away. My buddy watched the animal drop right on the spot.

Roe deer don't weigh much. I figured mine went about 40 lb. We decided to pick up the carcass and cross over the fence back into West Germany for a BBQ. The 170 gr. bullet destroyed the heart and there was a lot of blood. Making the shot was a breeze. My specialized training, coupled with great weather (it was a bright sunny day) made it almost too easy. As well, having a spotter - a highly trained operative watching everything through his binoculars - made recovering the deer a snap.

40 lb is easy to carry over your shoulders when you're a young, physically fit man. It's quite another thing to have to run with it and your gear when you're being chased! A couple of minutes after I picked up the deer, we heard vehicles approaching at a high rate of speed. The three of us picked up the pace, knowing that we had to make the half mile to the fence before the East Germans got there.

My number two spotted several military trucks closing on our position. They didn't quite know where we were, but you can bet that their people were glassing the fields and trees for any sign of us.

By that time, we were maybe 100 meters from the barbed wire. We could hear dogs and men moving towards us from either side of our position. Luckily, I kept a pair of wire cutters in my small pack for just such an occasion. With seconds to spare, I managed to cut through three layers of fencing and we crossed unmolested back into West Germany and safety.

The guards found our way out, but did not pursue us. They made some radio calls, but their chain of command probably stood them down. Chock another one up for the good guys!

That particular mission taught me a few things. The most important of course was always knowing the way out when you're being chased. The second was knowing that moderate range shots - like the one I took to harvest that roe deer - are a piece of cake with a 30-30. Of course, you have to be trained and highly skilled, but that goes without saying.

Finally, carrying that old Winchester made me understand why the 30-30 tamed the west. From that day on, it's all I've ever used to hunt game everywhere on the planet.

Cole . thank God you son was able to show the "trophy's " to you.
thank him for me for his service. as far as 30-30 being a moose round, my 73 year old sister got her moose with a 30-30 loaded with gummie points. one shot at 60 yards and he went 8 feet.
only thing she has ever shot, had to start at the top!