John:

Great article on the 7x57 in the current issue of "Guns". And thanks for all the reloading data. This one is a keeper.

You realize, though, that you'll never get Ingwe to stoke the Ingwe Special with anything but 175s. At least that's what he claims.

Mike

Glad you liked the column!

Ingwe will always march to his own leopard thong.

Nice article.

MD, I was drawn for a spring bear permit here in NE WA and will use your 2800 fps and a 140 NPT in my old FN HVA 7x57 (24" Shelin). As far as camo goes I'll probably wear a Tiger stripe bra as a tip of the hat to Col. Corbett, after all they are on sale @ Vicki's Secret this week.-Muddy

Brno 21H

All I really need is a No.1 RSI 7x57 wit a Leupold UL 2.5x HD around here...

the 7x57 is one of my favorite calibers.I have three,a push feed m70 fwt.,a Brno21h and a cz american.The cz has a throat deeper than the ivory snow girl and shoots a 154 horn 75fps slower than a ruger that had with two inches less barrel than the cz.

That's funny right there.

Isn't this the rifle you don't like? Want to sell it?

I seat a 160 gr Nosler Partition out to 3.330" in my CZ.

Magnificent 7x57 is the correct description!

Great info, John. Never owned a 7x57. It appears in bullets of 140gr and under it's about the same as my/any 7-08. Looking at your data it appears that it'll do a little better with the heavy bullets than the 7-08? It this generally a true statement?

In my experience, not really. But as the article stated, there are too many variables in 7x57 throat and magazine length to be absolutely positive about exactly what any given rifle will do.

7-08's are far more consistent, due to being a modern cartridge with firm specifications, designed for 2.8" magazine.

BLASPHEMY!!!! LOL.

Wait til Ingwe comes along...

The 7-08 is most certainly easier to deal with due to factory ammo availability and consistency, but it didn't kill 1,000 elephants. So it's no fun....

That 1000 elephant thing is definitely a dividing line. Though I'm not sure of what!

Bet a 7mm-08 wouldn't shoot like the 77 Ruger tanger that Dennis Hall used in this piece...

That throat must have been pretty long...

And, ole Dennis wan't bashful about stoking those cases...

I'm sure he was getting serious "Fire pressure", way out of SAAMI territory...

DF

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl66partial.pdf

I always thought what it really told us was just how strong Bell's nerves were. Growing up in Victorian Scotland with a middle name like Dalrymple might have developed that nerve a bit.

Or maybe he was the original stunt shooter.

I think it shows how much gin Bell drank.

Gin? Bell was a Scot!

Regardless of that, everyone who hunts Africa drinks gin. Period. I read that in a Capstick book...so it much be true.

For those looking for the article, it is in the May,2015 issue of Guns magazine, which is the current issue as of today, March 18.

Go figure.

I had a tang saftey Ruger 77 in 7x57 that would not come closer than 200 fps. with Nosler load data to what was in the book. I took it to Bill Wiseman and had him chamber cast it and the dimensons were way large with a very long throat. I tried adding powder until I got to published velocity but the gun wouldn't group. Eventually I rebarreled it to .270 and still shoot it. Ruger really ran some dogs out in that era. I don't know if it was a barrel problem, reamer wear problem, or just really poor quality control.

Well, that rules me out for ever going to the "Dark Continent." I don't have a taste for gin. Irish whiskey, on the other hand....

I don't remember ever seeing a bottle or Irish whiskey in a safari camp, and I would have if one had been there. Plenty of Scotch--and gin.

Well, John, we'd just have to bring some class to the place. There's nothing like a nip of Black Bush by the fire.

I too am enamored of the 7x57, and like Ingwe, I prefer the heavy 175gr bullets. There is just no other bullet weight to compare with it for terminal performance and accuracy in a wide spectrum of rifles with varying chamber/throat geometries.

My first 7x57 was a pre-warning tang Ruger M77R. My load of choice at one time was the 160gr Speer Hot Cor over 50gr of H4350. When I acquired my M77R MkII I promptly chambered one of those rounds and fired it only to find the bolt locked quite tightly. I was able to open it only with help from a rubber mallet. Subsequent load development showed that my chosen max charge in the MkII was just 45 grains. This points out the extreme variability of rifles chambered in 7x57, even within one manufacturer.

I have other 7x57 rifles now and have been "playing around" with the 154gr Hornady bullets with fairly good terminal performance and flatter trajectory than provided with the 175 grainers. Even so, nothing beats those magnificent 175gr spitzers, and the Hornady Interlock Spire Point might just be the best of the standard-grade cup-and-core choices.

Hmmm..

Dennis Hall didn't mention a rubber mallet in the linked article, but from some of his load data, bet he needed one...

DF

I had good luck with H450 in my m77 7x57 using 139 and 154 hornadys.Too bad it is no longer available.

That H450 must have been some wonderful stuff. It appears on almost every page of my older Hornady loading manual. That may a slight exageration. When I was younger, my neighbor gave me a pound of the stuff leftover from his reloading phase years prior. Stupidly, I poured it on the sidewalk and lit it thinking it might be too old, or something. It was black and shiny and smelled like every other powder, but I burned it anyway. I regret that smooth move.

Does anybody know the difference between H450 and H4350?

4350 is extruded. Wasn't 450 a ball powder?

BTW, great article by JB, as always.

Lots of time and work went into that piece.

Thanks for all your efforts, John.

DF

I have 300 Hornady 7mm 162 GR A-Max bullets that should arrive today and i will be working up a load with Hod 4831SC in my 7x57 . I presently have been using the Sierra 160 gr BTHP with 49.0 gr of 4831SC and should be able to use the same powder charge with the Hornady bullet. My rifle seems to prefer 4831 over 4350, but will also try Hod 4350 working up to 47 gr.'s with the 162 gr A-Max. The A-Max 162 gr will become my go to bullet in the 7x57 if it groups well in my rifle.

bea,have you run your sierra 160 load over the crono? I am getting 2600 ave.fps with the sierra 160btsp over 50.5 gr. of h4831sc in a ppu case,r-p 91/2 primers and 3.135 oal.in my cz550 with a 23.6 inch tube.

This from a 24 inch barrel , i have now shorten the barrel to 21 inch and re-crowned and will now have to repeat chronographing the load .

Nice work bea175. There is a whole lotta huntin' you can do and game you can kill with that load right there.

with this load and my 7x57 with 24 inch barrel

It didnt bounce off!

yes it did and i had to finish him off with a big rock.

"Bouncing off"...

This is a 7x57, not a .270...

DF

Older tang safety Ruger I seat 150 nosler BT just off the lands, with IMR 4350. Medium pressure load and it has never let me down in 25 years. The bullets are seated way out on the case.

My head is still reeling from the previous months Optics column !

MD : could you compare & contrast performance of the Nightforce Compact @ $1950. (gasp !!) with say a Bushnel Elite 2.5-10x40 at a fraction of the cost.

I've been shooting H450 for decades and still have a couple pounds left. In my hands it is slower than the 4350 powders.

I consider H450 to be the ball version of H4831 when it comes to performance. With the same charge, the two powders give similar velocities. Even with magnum primers, H450 burns a bit dirtier, though, but it meters much more consistently than H4831.

Recently changed my middle name to Sue.
How do you do?

H450 was a surplus military powder. I used it in my 243 with 100gr bullets and it gave superior velocity and accuracy. It gave my 243 quite a bark but with a more vicious bite. I wish I had known it was discontinued before my local GS sold it all. It was pretty much like W780.

Yes it is! That'd be a Marilyn Chamber reference

That WAS funny. I had to cheat via Google though. Turns out she's dead too.

Thought that reference was to Linda Loveless.

Who cares? Both ladies had the talent.
Paul B.

I found the Mag today and bought it. great article. I have had good luck with the nosler 150 gr BT. didn't see them listed. Have you tried those in the 7x57. I use the 160 nosler partition on heavy game such as elk.

Tell Jeff John to put all those darn ads in the back 3 pages. It feels like Im reading the shotgun news instead of the newest issue of the GUNS Mag. The ad's are bigger than the articles.

good write up on the 7x57 Mule Deer. keeps it alive.

I have had very good luck with 160 gr NAB in my CLR/NULA hybrid.

donsm70

PRWLR, Linda Lovelace, get em straight!-Muddy

Billc,

Glad you liked the article!

I tried 150 Ballistic Tips in the Kilimanjaro 7x57 listed, thinking it would be a great all-around bullet, and the rifle hated them. Some rifles are like that. You can use the data listed for the 156 Oryx.

Jeff John doesn't have anything to do with where the ads go, since that's not the editor's job.

Thank You Mule Deer. I know the rifles are finicky about the weights. the ruger tang safety loves the 150gr nosler. If the rifle will group at MOA with the heavy bullet, its a keeper in my book, and Im done looking. and im just joshing you about the ad's in the mag. doesn't make a diff to me. I like your article.

It's not the weight that my 7x57 is finicky about, since it shoots 150-grain Nosler Partition very well. It might be the "hard" boattail of the 150 Ballistic Tip, because I've run into a few other 7mm rifles that didn't much care for that bullets, even though most do.

Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell

My 7x57 although it does have a Rim. I'm looking forward to deer hunting with it one of these days, birds and coyotes have eaten up my time the past few years. 173 gr S&B's open the group a little more. It shoots so well with these inexpensive loads that I might not even bother loading for it, 139's and 173's pretty much cover anything I'm going to hunt with it and I have a good stock of Brenneke 16ga slugs and NP "F" shot loads.

Growing up with a name like that would tend to make a boy pretty tough...

DF

This one shoot's 150BT's really well. [img:center][/img]

This one really likes 140's, not so much heavier bullets.

So, guess what its getting fed...

Could do worse than 140 NBT's, NAB's and NPT's, for sure, not to exclude others in that class. Just haven't tried those, yet.

DF

A nice little truck gun.

Good thing for Mr. Hall them guns had such loose bores and long throats. If he run them loads through much of anything else he would have probably suffered some physical discomfort from flying debris.

Yeah, ole Dennis should have been a Fire contributor as he had his own "SAAMI" pressure ceilings...

Those old 77 tangers were chambered loose as a goose and long, and he took full advantage of a sloppy chamber and a very strong action to produce those data.

Like they say on TV, don't try this at home...

Interesting Loony stuff, nonetheless.

DF

Yep.

Handy in a box blind.

A rifle with a 26" tube can be a pain, sticking it thru the blind window without bumping something and making noise. A short gun can be a real asset in close quarters.

DF

The Ruger 77 (1974) I use will group well with some rather different bullets. It likes most Partition bullets and Sierra 160 gr. game kings. But the tightest groups it has ever shot came with 160 gr. Trophy Bonded Bearclaws(original style) and IMR 4831??? It has also shot good with 140 and 150 gr. Ballistic tips.

Can someone post a pic of the cover? I made a special trip to one of the few bookstores left in my area and they had the March issue on the stand.

I just want a visual of what I'm looking for as far as the cover goes.

If this was true, generally speaking, is it a bad thing or a good thing?

Well now I need to by that mag!

That's the $64 question...

Dennis Hall evidently thought it was a good thing...

If I want to push 7mm, 160 gr. bullets at 3K+ fps, I'll reach for my 7RM.

DF

A pleasant surprise I found when I started loading the 7x57mm's is some of them shot the stubby Speer 115 grain hollow point very well. My current 77 tanger does sub-MOA with 48.5 grains IMR4320 @ 3100 fps.

Thanks for all of the good comments and observations above.

We live way far from any magazine source and it has been many years since I have bought any kind of gun rag (I do read some now and then at the dentist office, barbershop, etc.) but the comments in this thread will have me looking for Mule Deer's article.

Much of that has to do with the fact that my first rifle was a Chilean M95 in 7X57 that I got in the mail from Sears ($13.99 + postage) in 1963 - and slowly did my own pure novice "sporterizing". The barrel is almost 27" because that is where I set the hacksaw to chop it off from mil length at the time. But, then, this is the SW and I never have had it in a box blind.

After the simple successive "improvements" and it was settled down, and then when I learned to load for it, the rifle became a 1 MOA or better shooter - still is. I was a "one-gun" hunter/shooter for many years and just loaded a good 140 gr. Sierra with as much 4831 as reasonable - and it simply killed mule deer, coues deer, elk, antelope, javelina and varmints every time.

I rarely use it any more - seems like a guy has to justify having gotten these more modern and exotic rifles/cartridges - but this old banger will stay with me until the end.

(Yes, that is a mil stock for a Swedish M96 6.5X55 in the background - thinking about making that one into a 26" mannlicher type sporter. The old yens and habits don't die easily). Thanks again.

Here you go.

Is there any decent 7X57 factory ammo?

Finally found it! Thanks Mike.

If you can't easily find the May issue of GUNS, you can download it off their website for $2. That is what I did when I couldn't find the issue in town.

http://gunsmagazine.com/store/products/guns-magazine-may-2015-pdf/

Probably - but someone more knowledgeable than me will have to say. I reload, so until recently I had bought no commercial 7x57 for over 50 years - since the original Winchester 175 gr. round nose stuff from the 60s. But, those did kill deer and elk.

I have seen both Federal and PMC 7X57 loaded at about 139/140 gr. (which BW I feel is about optimum for this cartridge). No doubt a web search will ID other commercial brands.

BUT - recently found an odd box of loads at a gun show - 116 gr. cone point bullet, is labeled SINOXID and was made by Dynamit Nobel in Germany. This stuff shoots fabulously in my old 7X57. I contacted the company on the net - they had none of that same load currently for sale - but one of their "engineers" was very nice and eventually sent me their load data - although I can't match the powder and don't know where to find that bullet over here. I am going to try.

There is some, if you can find it. A few years ago I got curious so went to my LGS and bought a box of every brand of 7x57 factory hunting ammo they had, which wasn't much: Federal Vital-Shok with the 140-grain Nosler Partition and Power-Shok with the 175 round-nose, and Winchester with the 145-grain Power-Point.

I shot them in my Kilimanjaro custom rifle with a 21" barrel and short throat. The two lighter-bullet loads both chronographed around 2700 fps, and the 175 around 2400, all a little faster than advertised. Of course, they'd all probably be slower in a more conventional longt-throat chamber. Accuracy was pretty good as well. The lighter-bullet loads were only about 100 fps behind 7mm-08 ammo in a 20" barreled Model 70 I had then.

Hornady used to offer a Light Magnum load with the 139-grain Interlock BTSP. This got around 2900 fps from the 24" barrel of another short-throated custom 7x57 I had back then, and shot VERY well. In fact I used it to take a good Coues deer buck in Sonora. But they discontinued that load, and today offer two Superformance loads, one with the 139 GMX and one with the 139 SST, both listed at around 2750 fps. But I haven't tried either.

What powder did you use with the 160 gr North Fork bullet in your 7x57 to take the Moose

I've had very good luck on Whitetails out of my Remington 700 Classic shooting factory Federal Premiums with Nosler Partition bullets. Sometimes after the shot the deer try to climb trees!@!

Nice buck, first photo.

Tree climber didn't make it far...

DF

Anybody try Sellier&Bellot 175's in their 7X57? It is a stepped bullet for whatever reason?

I have had good luck with Factory Lapua 170 grn when I can find it. very accurate load.

Bought my 1st 7x57 in 69 and learned to load and shoot with it for ctr fires. It is a 93 with the long throat for the 175's but it has allways handled 139 gr Hornady SP and 140 NPT's just fine. When I got a chance at a new 7x57 in the box M77R from the 1st run of these I jumped on it($160) it also has the long SAAMI spec throat It shoots the same bullets as well. Somewhere along the way I discovered that the recently discontinued 154 gr RN Hornady shoots really well in these chambers. Always used IMR 4350 for the loads with some 4320 also. Never felt inadequately armed when carrying either for the hunting I do. Recently I quit buying gun Mags, occasionally I buy a Rifle or a Handloader because of an article I want to read or keep for reference. I think I'll find a copy of the mentioned Guns and get it. Thanks JB for ratcheting up the interest. Magnum Man

bea175,

I used H4350 on the moose.

That particular rifle is the Kilimanjaro custom listed in the table of handloads. It shoots any bullet from 156-162 grains to the same point of impact at 100 yards with 46.0 grains H4350, so I have used it considerably as a "bullet test" rifle. I sight-in (and do most hunting of deer-sized game) with the 160 Sierra GameKing, then switch to other loads for larger game. (The Sierras would work fine on animals larger than deer, I am sure, because I've never recovered one from a deer, pig, antelope, sheep, etc., but a gun writer has to keep testing stuff.)

In 2007 I went to South Africa for a month on a big cull hunt, and one of the two rifles taken was the Kilimanjaro 7x57, with four loads using 46.0 H4350 and the 160 GameKing, 156 Norma Oryx, 160 TSX and 160 North Fork. Got to "field test" them all, but the Norma and North Fork are the most accurate in that rifle, averaging well under an inch.

Thanks for the reply John

Paul, I was out in the hidey hole yesterday, there is five boxes of factory 7x57 ammo, all 172(?) grain bullets. Made under the montgomery wards label, one box from south america, and a box of 170/180 projectiles made by knoch labed dangerous game. They are pulled bullets. i think i have some bullets some place that are wierd looking, your coin point remark, comes to mind.
I like shooting the heavy bullets at distance, and listening for the delayed "thunk" when they hit something. My personal belief unsupported by anything is around 140grains is probably ideal. I know the single shot riedl i have does not like light bullets, or remington brass.

It was one of the few factory loads that shot well from my 700 MR. On hogs at 15 feet, it was an excellent performer. I never did get to try that load on anything else, but I was confident enough in it that I carried it for an elk hunt. I had the crosshairs on a very nice 5x5, but since I was in BC, I couldn't pull the trigger.

My buddy used the 173 S&B's in an identical rifle to take a 10 point whitetail with no drama. I doubt they're going fast enough to come apart unexpectedly.

FC

I too love the Lapua! It is a shame we can not buy them over here. If someone would import them, they would sell a ton. If anyone has any 7x57 Lapua brass they will sell, please PM me your price.

Richard

H3900

I've looked at the European offerings by RWS and Norma. Both show few factory offerings, especially as compared to 7x64 offerings. Is the 7x57 losing popularity overseas as well? It certainly looks like it. Why? Beats me. Maybe "old and efficient" is out of style.

Rev,you should start loading your own.

Elk: you are absolutely right. I'm just trying to figure out why.

Easy,shoot more.

True; but at less than $16 per box of what I shoot.....

Now, if we're talking about tailor-making loads for various applications, well, that's a different story. For instance, a 150 gr partition for your upcoming African adventure....

You working at being a Loony...

Right?

You gotta reload if for no other reason than to have balistic gack to gack about here on the Fire...

Plus it's fun and you can create unique loads that your rifle will really love. Factory fodder generally hits the middle, hand loads can search the edges where real performance lives. And, how else are you going to have fire belching, Fire pressure loads...?

DF

My upcoming Safari involves a lioness and for her it's a 300 gr Sierra .375 H&H.

For the Blesbok and Wildebeest it's either a 260 gr NP or 300 gr Sierra .375 H&H.

You guys are zero help! I'm gonna die in abject poverty!!

See there, Rev.

Now you gotta find a .375 H&H.

The 7x57 is a round that really benefits from reloading, as commercial ammo has to be suitable for older actions. With that M-70, you can turn up the heat, maybe not to Dennis Hall levels, but up nonetheless...

DF

In my Featherweight 7x57,with a 160 gr Sierra GK it's 2710 fps from a 22" barrel. It loves that bullet and load.

Can't get that from a factory load.

Won't mention what the CZ 550 7x57 gets.

Welcome to handloading.

No.......!!!!!

I have 4 7x57s, and expect any of them can handle a bit of hot-rodding. But from what I can tell, about anything at 2500 fps equals DRT. And with most weights you're right: the only way to guarantee that is with a hand load...and a chrono, of course.

Yup, a chrono is an absolute.

No doubt.

Get two of them. One for using and the other for a spare.

I honestly don't believe I've saved any money by handloading over buying factory ammo.

I have, however, shot a great deal more for about the same cost.

[quote=elkhunternm]Get two of them. One for using and the other for a spare. [/quote

I have two of about everything. Why do you think I have 4 7x57s???

Cuz you lost count?

27 years as a partner in a CPA firm...losing count?

Well,yeah.

You have two of about everything and you have 4-7x57's,you lost count.

That's what happens when I don't have my ten-key.

The Scripture, Rev, the Scripture...!

"For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out" 1 Tim. 6:7

Sounds like your ticket and the makings of a great sermon...

DF

Yes, acceptance is the first step.

next determine the throating on those 4 7x57's

, and go forth and HandLoad !

Finally decide which one to Improve !

Cheers!

I have read all of Col. Corbett's books and have one question. Did He use the 140 gr. MOL high velocity load or the original 173 gr. load? I don't think I ever saw which one either in his books or in his American Rifleman articles. -Muddy

That's all true, but I'd really rather not live under the overpass until my final days actually come to pass!

Not much of a loony, was he. He's pretty silent about loads, rifles, etc. For instance, in The Temple Tiger (I think) he talks about a WR rifle that had an odd trigger, but he doesn't go into any more detail. Was it a two-stage trigger? Some sort of set trigger? He said it went "click" but nothing happened. After he figured that he had to pull it twice, he never mentions it again. Dang it! I want to know what it was and what ultimately happened to it!

I'd love to know what loads he used as well. Kynoch? Something else? 140 HV or the 173? Evidently, he didn't think that recording the details of the rifles and loads was terribly important to the story.

Yep.

Timing is everything...

DF

Rev,when you getting a .375 H&H?

When the old 7x57 no longer will do this (what are you doing this evening? )

Not much,gonna make a trolls (sherp aka herpes) night miserable.

And you?

Butchered that little sow and have her on ice. Not a bad Friday evening.

Congrats!

Tomorrow gonna take the SS .375 H&H out and sight it in. After that,don't know.

"I'd love to know what loads he used as well. Kynoch? Something else? 140 HV or the 173? Evidently, he didn't think that recording the details of the rifles and loads was terribly important to the story."

Rev. Mike. I would imagine that considering the size and power of th tiger that Corbett most likely use 175 gr. bullets for the penetration. I would think that considering the "quality" of bullet construction during that time period that the 140 gr. HV just might be a tad too fragile for the big cats. Makes sense to me anyway.
Paul B.

That makes sense to me as well, especially considering the use of a heavy double for other cats.

Question for Mule Deer,
I bought new model 70 classic light weight in 7x57 Mauser
the first of the year and was thinking of placing a 1.5x5
leupold on her..what say you? Also found today a new #1 RSI
in .280 Remington and will pick this girl up if she still is
at my local dealer this week-end.

That would work. So would some other scopes!

ll : If you don't get the #1, ream that Win out to .280

seriously , the comb may be too high for the extra low mounts that that scope deserves.

Make it fit you, and it will point and shoot like an English Shotgun !
Practice Lots.

This 'un sure does: Leupold 2.5-8 VX3



And this one: Leupold 1.5-5 VX3 (I posed the rifle on Corbett's books because it makes it look grandiose).

Rev. What! No hard bounds?-Muddy

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen, I have a 030-06 with
the little 1.5x5 on her and really like it,have used this
set-up for at least 25 years. I have never owned or
shot the 7mm Mauser but reading every thing I could find
on this rifle/cartridge combination it seems as if this
little scope would be about ideal. Now to start looking at
140,150 and 160 grain bullets for loading my new pet rifle..
Happy Trails to all
Larry

I use the Vortex 2x7 Viper with Dead Hold BDC on my 7x57. This scope matches it perfect.

They are hard bounds; just the omnibus edition. I'm waiting for Ingwe to die and leave me his leather bound Safari Press limited editions...along with the Ingwe Special, of course.

Been feeling poorly lately, Ingwe? Should I send you my shipping address?

I plan on raffling off the Ingwe Special...it will be worth millions by now....

My youngest son has taken ownership of my 7x57 Walther Mauser.









Here he is loading 160 gr AB's prior to the hunt.

"Taken ownership". Is that similar to "ripped off"? Nice rifle, looks like a good kid, some nice animals.

Some love here for the Hornady 175 RN.

Is that the McFlame? If so I'll buy some tickets.

+1

If he puts a McFlame on a 7x57, he just needs to go ahead and check out now.

Pesos?

Norma has a 150 gr. loading that is accurate in every 7x57 I've tried it in.

My notes show that the 150 gr. norma load averaged 2717 fps out of my old ruger 77 with a 22" barrel.

Joe:

Does Norma still load that? The only factory Norma I see in 7x57 is the 156 grain Oryx. The 7x57R has a 150 grain FMJ, but I don't see any 150 grain loads in the standard 7x57.

Rev.,Im not Joe,but,I still have part of a box of the Norma 7x57 ammo.The part no. is 17002.Norma calls it a 150 gr. semi pointed soft point and lists a muzzle vel. of 2755 fps.I would be surprised if they still make this load.

Thanks. From the Norma website it looks like the only 7x57 still offered is the 156 Oryx.

Rev, sorry I'm so late in answering but, I went to Tulsa for the gun show and am just getting back into the swing. Yes, the # is 17002. I got several boxes years ago and only a partial left. The 156 grain may be even better.

Hey Joe: you might want to hang on to that. Norma doesn't list it anymore and the last box I saw auctioned off at about $50. The 156 grain Oryx is the only factory 7x57 load they now show.

$50 bucks is les than $10 more than our local Gander Mtn. wants for Remington green box 7x57 140 grain pspcl.Its hard to imagine!

Ouch! I picked up green box Core Lokt for $19.99 per box at Target Sports USA - free shipping.

Recently purchased a #1 RSI in 7x57 but haven't gotten the scope mounted the way I would like so I can shoot it. Have some priv ammo and some S&B stuff to just get things on paper with. Maybe in the next couple of weeks.

Magnificent!

Congrats Rev!

Thanks, Elk. It's still magnificent, isn't it.

Yup.

I think he does most of his flaming with a McFlame .223AI...

DF

John:

In that article you mentioned that you've taken pronghorn and springbok out to 400+ yards. Do happen to remember the load, primarily the bullet used and velocity?

Thanks

Have done that with a couple of loads:

The Nosler 140 Tip and 50.0 grains of IMR4350. This was in a "red pad" Ruger No. 1A with the typical very long throat of older Ruger 7x57's, and would be a pretty hot load in some rifles. Muzzle velocity was around 2850 fps.

The Sierra 160 GameKing and 46.0 grains of H4350. This was in my Kilimanjaro custom rifle, which has a minimal throat, so probably wouldn't be too hot in many rifles. Muzzle velocity is right around 2700 fps.

Thanks, John. One other question: you didn't mention in the article whether or not you have a favorite powder, or which you consider the most versatile in the 7x57. Any opinion?

I'm not John and certainly don't have his experience with the 7X57, but all of them that I have had really took a liking to H-4350.

Thanks. Any bullet weight preference?

I've mainly used 140-145's, but some 160's too.

I'm sitting here with one of my 7x57s, watching a 55 pound +/- boar root corn out of some nasty water. Hope his big brother shows. Ingwe, where are you??

Right here. shoot him in the face....

You know I will; no heart/lung shots for me in this terrain. I'm thinking the Ingwe Special is made for this.

Its too big, but it will work....

Maybe I'll pass and let him grow up a bit.

He's just the right size for eating, and there will be more you know....

More than we'd like!

Bust'em.

You got others out there growing…

DF

I'm at least going to let him get out of the water.

The deed is done.

Yeah, terra firma is the way to go.

Coming out of the water under hog power, better than dragging 'em out with Mike power...

DF

Just thinking out loud here. I don't recall any gunwriters calling the .270 Winchester -"Magnficient", just saying.

That guy passed on to his reward...

DF

Don't need too.

Photo required Mike.

Bob:

I didn't take a pic of the deceased as the Prvi C&C resulted in a mess, but I also know that on the 'Fire, if there aren't any pictures it didn't happen. Do you think this might suffice as proof: 58 pound boar...well, at least the eating parts.

Looks good enough to eat.

We'll marinate him in some mojo seasoning, put him in the crockpot for a few hours, shred him and throw him over a bit of rice. It ain't bad!

My brother-in-law and I were filling a feeder yesterday and we heard something behind us. Four little pigs were heading up the trail straight towards us, plain as day. Once they saw us they took off, but if they keep that up they won't live long.

Sonds good,Rev.

Those little pigs aren't afraid of the big bad wolf.

You're pretty much on the mark. Once they get any size on them, about the only natural enemy they have is an alligator.

And a 140gr chunk of copper and lead.

Heck, I recall a gun writer calling the .270 Winchester much less than magnificent, adequate for small deer but marginal for big deer. I think that story got him promoted. He's an editor now.

Using a 140 gr bullet is gonna get you in trouble with you-know-who!

Yeah, gotta shoot175's in the 7x57.

What about .270's bouncing off stuff...

Rev, you eat boars? We eat sows, donate boars to the coyotes.

One of our deer camp guys put a trail camera at the bone yard where we drag big ole boars, dump deer and hog guts. It wasn't coyotes that ate those carcasses, it was a bunch of hogs. A hog will eat just about anything, almost as bad as a possum.

DF

You mean the guy who uses 150s?

It would appear that my reputation is tarnished....



What can I say? Bell came to me in a dream one night and said it was OK to use 150 NBTs on deer.....

Corbett did the same, but only so long as the deer were chital....

7x57 for hunting Big Game starts and ends with the 160 to 162 gr bullet. The lighter weight ones are good for Prairie Dog hunting

Pigs are definitely opportunists: they'll eat just about anything they come across. But yes, we'll eat boars as well, unless they're really, really big. I know there's been a lot of debate about that, but I've found two primary things that influence the taste (aside from what they've been eating): whether or not they've been washed down before cleaning (a lot of times they wallow in their own filth), and whether or not they've been stressed before killing (e.g., run by dogs or something like that). So far, I've not been able to tell the difference in taste between a young sow and an older boar when they've been ambushed under a feeder and washed before butchering. Now granted, I'm not talking about some grizzled old campaigner that's been fighting for years; but something up to 150 pounds or so I'm not terribly afraid of.

As I said, I know there's been debate about it. The little fellow I killed last night weighted 58 pounds on the hoof. He had no smell at all when we cleaned him. As I said to Elk, he'll cook up fine.

Wait a minute: just a few days ago you blamed it on Mule Deer. Gotta keep your stories straight.

My stories are straight...

I blamed Mule Deer for the 160 gr TSX....

The Poobah does not err in such a way....



P.S. Corbett said to say "Hi"

Tell him "hi" back, next time you talk with him.

Buy a better brand of booze and those dreams will go away....

What could be better than talking to Corbett or Bell?


I mean besides the obvious debauchery of cavorting with young women....

What was I thinking??

At my age, Id much rather talk to Corbett....pass the cheap stuff!

At your age, you might not have any other option.

You HAD to go there, didn't you?

Misery loves company, I'm afraid.

The truth hurts.....

Yep...

Back to more pleasant tops. I'll be hunting Chital in about three weeks!

Only I wont be using the 7x57...taking a .243...( So I can shoot NBTs in it without ridicule...)

Really? Where are you headed? You and Sactoller finally get your trip scheduled?

Nope. Im headed to Tejas, Blackbuck and Axis. Sactoller is dragging his feet on getting the airlines to go direct to Windhoek...

Enjoy that!

You know, if you want things done....

Most likely,it's the wet turds Ingwe smokes.

I just had a lovely specimen rejoin the fold:













[img]http://i480.photobucket.com/al...-8271-477082F5D432_zpsthjtae58.jpg[/img]

Had her D&T'd, the charger hump ground, am replacing the safety w/ a chapman-style, and getting a few of the 24" tube trimmed. I have vertical Talleys coming as well as a VX2 2-7x 33mm LRD; then I just need sling studs.

Thinking 175 RN Interlocks for whitetails & 139 Interlocks for pronghorn? Or maybe 154 spires for both?

Tom
Successful choices do not need justification. The 150BT already has Dober's endorsement. Good enough.
John

John...I did not know the bullet had Dober's Seal of Approval. I shall sally forth with confidence!

He said Dober approved the 150s. You taking the IS instead of the .243?

For the Corbett fans, there's a nice articlee on him and the tiger of Mohan in the May/June issue of Sports Afield on page 88 with a few photos. Just a heads up if you haven't seen it. Also a good article by JB on rifling twists.
Paul B.

And Wally Johnson's well-used M70 .375. Excellent pictures as well.

I am going to try some 175gn Accubond LR's in my Super grade Featherweight Model 70. This could be a good combo.
John

I took a leap of faith and figured Dober Okayed all NBTs.....

Bet you like it! Where are you hunting in Texas?

If they shoot well (and they usually do), don't be afraid to fling 139 Interlocks at anything nondangerous. They dig deep.

Dober's primary reference was the 7mm 150 grain BT. Go forth and add to the 7x57 legend.

Only those that know, know.
John

In keeping with the Dober theme, I believe it ought to have been "...go forth and fill an ark..."?

Dang I miss that dude; thanks for pointing out the 150 NBT as a great "all around" choice.

I might have to load some up at about 2500 fps. I expect that'll work.

Ingwe, I heard there is a new 150 grain bullet for the .243. It's yellow and made by Dixon Ticonderoga. Think that's what Dober was talking about?

IMR-4350 worked well in my Featherweight with 150 gr NBT's.

I will check into it. I just picked up a few boxes of Hornady 140 grain Rigby and a couple of boxes of Prvi Grom. I haven't found anything the M1999 won't shoot very well so I'm a little slow at trying to work up any loads.

It would be such a shame to see a Reverend Smoking a Turd in Hell....

Naw,I'll show him the way out.

There is no way out for you....


You sealed your fate by shooting a .270...which is gay..

You know what the christians say happens to gays.....

I'm always happy.

Besides,I've been busy down here making escape routes.

You will need them.....

Yup.

I've been trying to avoid looking at the Ruger #1 on Gunbroker, in 7x57...It might be too tempting

OK, I have a spring bear tag in NE Wa. I have loaded 160 gr X Triple shock's to the Barnes I-4831 book max., they shoot well enough. Will the things actually expand @ 2400 through the ribs? I have used the 139 Hornady SPFB on several and most game animals simply die on the spot. BTW Rev. have you purchased that Bombay Bowler for your wife yet?. I can't believe that she actually mows the lawn faithfully for someone that would converse with anybody that has a leopard (nasty brute) thong as his/her Avitar. Sorry ING, I'm on the way to Augusta Tues. to shoot the gopher/badger/rabbit/coyote/skunk/ect. We'll be at the Lazy B slummin' incognito. Muddy

She's a patient woman, Muddy.

Hey Rev,have you seen my new varmint rifle?






Gonna put a Leupold 3x on it.Yesterday the box 300 gr Swift A-Frame bullets I ordered came in. Just waiting on some ammo I ordered to arrive,then I can get loading.

The download for $2 works. Even I could do it. Might resurrect that special 7x57 out of "the closet".

MD or others, were the later versions of Ruger #1's (7x57) produced with shorter throats? Is the red pad vs. black pad difference an indicator as to throat length?

Yeah, the later Ruger 7x57's did have shorter throats. Black pad is at least an indicator. I had both a 77 Mark II and a black-pad No. 1A that had considerably shorter throats than earlier Ruger 7x57's.

For those that read these threads and have no personal experience with this cartridge, it must be tough to look up the ballistics and wonder what the fuss is all about, as there are several cartridges, modern and older, that replicate or exceed the 7x57 performance.

There is a cache of supporters who love "Tradition" which is a manly way of saying "Romance". These guys quote Bell and Corbet and go into a lather at a "real" .275 Rigby rifle which most have never seen or held.

There is another group that likes underdog, out of favor, meaning limited new rifles, exclusivity and all that good stuff and there is a 3rd group who recognizes value and which really opens the door to self corruption.

These guys, me included can convince themselves anything and justify their choice because............

"Because" is a good reason and correction trails can lead to tangible opinion. Recoil tolerance or determining what you will now accept is legitimate. Watching the cartridge work in the field is a justifiable corruption, probably the most noble.

And there is the learning, the understanding of what you can load in components and achieve "balance". Some cartridges, particularly magnums, need prescription loads to ensure the bullet, powder, velocity, impact velocity combination, works effectively.

We use the word "efficiency", which means nothing more than and interpretation, we use the word "practical" which is a consolidation of fabricated opinion such as matching a cartridge OAL to an action length and we also have "realization" when all the contributing factors "balance" in meeting goals, needs, limitations, preferences, enhanced pleasure of use and pride of ownership.

This is the 7x57 to me. It works. It is more pleasant to shoot than larger rounds. I drives bullets of decent caliber and weight to velocities that cover the common needs relating to trajectory. It can be built in a light rifle platform, a full blown custom platform and a traditional, meaning British Stalking rifle platform, that is aesthetically pleasing and engenders pride of ownership.

The 7x57 says, "I don't need to prove a thing because I already have". It is like driving a new Dodge Ram on its first road trip if you are inexperienced, it is like the recalling the curves of a past love that still sparkles in your memory.

Most of my 7x57's had also had 7mm Mauser stamped on the barrel and one 20 year companion simply said .275 Rigby. All were enough for all I asked of them.

John

Great piece, John. Enjoyed reading it.

I was following you pretty close until you got to the Dodge Ram part...

I've been told, never mess with a Dodge owner, he's already mad...

A good bud drives a Dodge Ram. I asked him about it and his emphatic reply, "It's a RAM." He didn't have to conviction to say "Dodge".

Just thought I'd throw that in...

DF

I have owned several and my latest is the Longhorn which is top shelf in every respect. I enjoy every mile.
John

Good to hear from a happy Ram owner, and one that's not sensitive about his truck...

Maybe they're sending the good ones down under...

DF

Nope. US of A.
I bought American consciously when I immigrated.

Drove Landcruisers in Oz.
John

Well, in that case, welcome to Dodge country...

And welcome to the USA.

DF

I expect there'll be more than a few of us.

Hey Elk, that's pretty nice. Y'all have some big varmints out there!

Yup.

Here's an interesting shot of a Dodge Ram one morning just south of our lease. I call it, "Dark+Drunk=Damp". And no, I wasn't involved....

Rev,

You taking way too much pleasure in the misfortunes of others...

Bet you'd find a mad Dodge owner somewhere in this scene...

DF

It was three very cold, wet, hungover Dodge owners.

Two F-250s pulled them right out. Believe it or not, all they did was change the oil and fire it up. As far as I know they got back to Fr Lauderdale in one piece.

To drown a Dodge is bad enough.

To be pulled out of the drink by a pair of Fords...

Ultimate disgrace...

DF

You can always look at it this way: they got it so buried that it took two to get it out. I'm not sure that's really a compliment but they seemed somehow proud about the fact.

They had a bad night.

Thanks MD for the quick reply. Took care of my 7x57 deficiency this morning.......

Good deal!

With what?

Gravity works, unfortunately.

It most certainly does!



Ted

For some reason I have noticed Dodge guys are not terribly bothered being rescued by Chevys. But they get plum distressed about Fords helping them.

So leaving trucks for the moment, good post AGW, will a Ruger #1 sufficiently solve the COAL dilemma? That oft raised concern over magazine length and the long throat? Of course that doesn't mean acceptable accuracy will result but the chances are raised because you are in control of the COAL.
Say AGW, what is a British "stalking rifle platform"?

A "nib" Boddington "Leopard". I can see my can of H4350 will be on the loading bench in a few days. Probably start with Sierra 140's and move to Noslers. Now where did that brass go...........

Nice.

Pictures?

DF

That'll work!

You guys are a bad influence, swapped one of the 25-06s for my first 7x57. Shilen barrel on a VZ24 sights and scope rings.

The British Stalking Rifle was a scaled down version of the Big Game rifle. With Rigby's and Holland's being chambered for the 7mm Series and .300 H&H being good examples.

There are quite a few of these in Oz and I owned, saw and handled these from time to time and they are cherished rifles for collectors and hunters alike.
John

I will post some after I receive it. Certainly a small bodied scope - maybe a fixed 4 or 6. I'll look at what is available from my little supply closet.

Thanks AGW - so the trend continues today, only with different terminology.
Maybe something like "new old stock" applies here too.

I have a red pad No.1A 7x57 with the long throat - a 160 Partition seated to touch the rifling uses less than 1/2 the case neck, but it works fine.

But...it closes the door on "need". That is a terrific combo.
John

Have or had one of the red pads like JGray tells of and it was a fine shooter also. My boy wanted to use it for a few days, about 10 years ago.

I'll be loading for elk as that is all I seem to hunt. So debating whether I go 140's or 160's in Partition or Accubond. Compromise with 150's in a Partition? Elk can be from 50 to 350 yards, my personal limit. Maybe I should let the rifle tell me what it likes without much drama.

The 150gn Partition can be driven at 2800fps in the 7x57. Such a combo covers most of what any hunter will ever do.
John

Thanks John. Its interesting to note that such an old "out of step" cartridge gets 14 pages of comments.

It almost always does.

Yep, last elk that came home with me was enticed to do so with that combination.

Here is my 7x57. It is a T-99 Arisaka action with a surplus 7x57 LR Mauser barrel I bought in the white. The barrel had Israeli markings on it. I used a T-38 stock and made anything I could out of aluminum and titanium. The project started out as just a tough, super light, mountain rifle and somehow became the most accurate rifle I own. Last year before deer season I fired four shots on the 100 yard range. The 1st shot is always high (Dirty the bore)and the next 3 were great. Two holes intersecting and the third was in one of the other two holes. You could only see 3 holes out of 4 shots. I am getting old and am sure that this rifle shoots way better than I can. It has made me a couple bucks on the ranges over the years. The exposed metal is from years of rough use. The baked on aluminum paint is wearing off.
I use Remington 7MM 150 Gr PSP bullets with 43.0 grains of IMR 4350 OAL 3.00. At one time I used Hornady 175 Gr RN bullets, but the 150 Gr bullets gave closer groups. 43.0 Grains is light, but I figure the accuracy overrides the speed. Every now and then I have to do a headshot in the laurel and logs.

Yep, Rev.

Your preaching, especially the 7x57 variety, is gaining a foot hold...

DF

No, not my preaching. There just seem to be quite a number of folks who still appreciate that old round and aren't ashamed to talk about it.

Well, I was trying to give you the credit...

DF

I appreciate that...let's give the credit to ol' Ingwe.

He's not bashful...

DF

Isn't there a picture of him wrapped up with some dude in leopard skin? Nope, not bashful at all!

Almost got it set up....Just working on all the scantly clad women on board!

I did pick up 2 7x57's, one is a Brno 22fs they other a Ruger #1....

I assume pics of the Brno and Ruger are forthcoming?

I agree with 'whoop: lookin' for some pics.

Still waiting for you and Ingwe to figure it out...Mozambique?

Would love to go to Mozambique & Uganda.

Ingwe, Elk, and Sac in Mozambique...I'm afraid the State Department would have an issue on its hands!

Rev, have you had a chance to try the Grom ammo yet?

Not the pics you are looking for but here is one of a rusty old 22h 7x57.

Yup,the leopard print thongs would be a sight to forget.

I haven't yet. I've had my hands full with the parish these past few weeks - people dyin', etc - but I have several boxes of it as well as several boxes of the Hornady 140 gr. Rigby cartridges. I'm hoping to get to the lease in the next week or so to try both. I'm really curious to see how the Grom performs. I might just try it in the Zastava first...just because they're both Serbian (I probably should have some Slovovitz or something to go with it).

That's a nice looking rifle! How do you like those double-set triggers?

Y'all would probably get deported pronto.

Shame isn't it. Talented people like us being thrown out of Mozambique,they just know talent when they see it.

That's probably true. You know, though, if you went to Mozambique you'd have to take that .300 HH. You just would.

Yep, the Grom should work fine in the Zastava as they probably know each other and the Slovovitz. I've had some the Grom loads on the shelf for a while but no experience with it yet.

I like double set triggers but they are probably an acquired taste. Shot the schuetzen rifles for a lot of years and the double sets were quite common.

My old business partner was Serbian and introduced me to that stuff. Wow, you talk about an acquired taste. I'm used to Black Bush Irish whiskey...that Serbian stuff will substitute for 93 octane.

How does that old rifle shoot? I like it!

I thought you were headed to Africa next year.

I am.

Mozambique & Uganda along with Zimbabwe are for the future.

Yup.

After it's been re-stocked into a fine piece of wood.

A Mozambique plains game hunt might be interesting!

Not too fine...you don't want to turn it into a safe queen.

Rev, the rifle shoots very well. Seems to have quite a bit of life left in it.

Yup. With Cape buffalo and just maybe a leopard thrown in.

Won't spend no more than $500 for a wood stock(English walnut) and that'll be fine for me.

That's a round that's not known for burning barrels, huh?

Let me know who's doing that, if you don't mind. I wouldn't mind having my Zastava Mauser "rigby'ed" but danged if I can find someone to even give me an estimate as to what it'd cost.

My wife's high school friend,he's a gunsmith.

The $500 is for the inletted stock,no labor,glass-bedding or fitting (if need be) in the price.

I told my wife that I might just get stupid and have the new Rigby company build me a Lindon Best. I expect I'll be sleeping in the garage.

Rev, I don't believe it's immune to burning barrels but fortunately this one just wasn't shot a lot. Got real lucky and picked up a 21f that shows virtually no wear via the bore scope.
They are out there, you probably need to snag one when you get a chance. I think you would enjoy using one of the old Brno's.

LOL, the garage might be a big step up from your new residence.

Nope,that's where her new car is going.


Most likely,you'll sleep in the doghouse.

Yeah, that's probably true!

Elk, we don't even have a dog anymore. Now that's scary!

Doesn't matter.

As promised on this thread, a new Boddington Leopard at the range today. About 1.5 MOA for the first trip with 140 NP's and 150 Sierra GK's using H4350. I look forward to more good time at both benches. No chrony today.

I've been eyeballing one of those too. What are your thoughts on it? Good fit and finish? Can you post some more pics of it?

For now I'll say that it has good fit and finish. I like the matte finish with the Circassian walnut. I'll get some more pics up as time allows.

Bigwhoop,I use IMR-4350 and 160 gr SGK's in my Winchester Featherweight.

Anything a 7X57 can do a 280 can do better!!!

Heretic!!!!

Have a 7x57 that'll duplicate the .280.





The rifle that load was shot in.

CZ 550 American 7x57.

I can over load more powder in my 280 than you can overload in your 7X57.

How did you determine this?
John

John...I think it was the same way that I determined a .270 is gay....

And anything a .280 can do a .280 AI, 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Mashburn, 7mm Weatherby, 7mm STW, 28 Nosler or 7mm RUM can do faster.

Better is another question entirely.

Everyone knows more is better.For example which is better,Kate Upton or Twiggy?

Maybe there was genuine logic in the original magnum being a booze bottle?

Tough to argue with that logic....

Maybe the guys that like their rifles under 5 lbs. all-up,like the Twiggy ones!

I liked JB's article. The message was clear, in that the 7x57 is enough......if you can place one of the many great .284 bullets in tbe right place.

I haven't shot anythimg larger than about 1,000 pounds live weight but it was certainly enough.

I hope Seafire chimes in on this, but I'm asking everyone: do you have any favorite loads for a 120 grain bullet at somewhere around 1800-2000 fps at the muzzle? I have some old data showing 4227 with 130 gr at about 2050, but what I'd like to do is run some 120s at about the same velocity or a tad slower with an easily opening C&C. Impact distance is less than 50 yards, and it doesn't have to be 4227.

I'm tired of watching the raccoons eat my corn while waiting for a pig to show!

Thanks in advance.

#13 Speer book lists max. of 22 gr. of SR 4759 and a 130 gr. for 2004 FPS. Muddy

Thanks, Muddy. My old brown DuPont guide shows basically the same thing: 23.5 gr, 130 Speer, 2055. I'd really like to lob a few 120s at about the same velocity or a bit less as well.

That was a great article for sure MD. I have a No. 1 RSI that I like very much in 7MM Mauser. It shoots great but only with the longer bullets like 175's. Maybe it just has a very long throat. I would like to have a bolt action in 7MM that has a strong action but there is not much choice in new guns that I can find. Maybe and old post 64 used Winchester? There are quite a few of them on the market and they seem to shoot very well. I thought CZ was still making the American in 7MM Mauser but I don't wee them for sale.

Check out Montana Rifle Company. There are also 2 or 3 pages of 7x57s on Guns International. Gun Broker also has some listings.

Oh, and I understand Rigby is building them again in their "London Best" model. It's a little more than the CZ but what the heck.