I started a build with Robert in December 2014 and since November off 2015he has not returned my calls or emails. Any help or suggestions appreciated. Thanks

I know that he has been working to expand his shop recently. I don't have any advice for you but he's alive, well, and working.

Please see other "Gradous" thread in the classifieds.....things are not well!!

Some folks were able to get their parts back.....

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...8/Robert_Gradous_contacting#Post11157518

I just saw this and its funny I talked to robert 3 times todya without knowing any of this was going on. last fall I sent my parts into him. I just wanted a barrel install. He got my parts and promptly called me and sent pictures showing my parts were damaged because of my piss poor packaging job, mainly the trigger had poked through the box. At that time he also looked over everything really close and suggested a couple things he thought might be happening with my gun, he said it looked like a stock pillar had been crushed, I look at my stock sure enough its crushed slightly. He also found that a scope base screw had been tightened into the barrel threads.

back then he said the project would take about 6 weeks to complete. So that would have put me sometime in november. I wasn't worried about it so I didn't call to bug him. january rolls around and he calls to say its done he is just going to fix the trigger for me. He said he would call me later that day when he ships it out. I didn't hear back. I still wasn't worried about it.

Then a week or so ago I sent him an email asking about it. He said it has been done for quite a while except for the trigger repair. So today actually he called and confirmed with me every last detail we talked about. He asked me about packaging etc. He called and said he had it all packed up and ready. Later today he called again and said he was dropping it off at the post office and sent me a picture of the tracking label to my phone. He also said to make sure and let him know if there were any problems.

What I think has happened in the guy simply got too famous. I don't think you will find a guy that is more detail oriented than he is. seriously who the hell is going to examine an action and figure out a stock pillar crushed? YES people can get caught up too much in the details. The problem with that is it overwhelms them if they start to get too busy and they kinda shut down. I think he tries to make sure everything works rather than making sure what he does works and to hell with everything else.

a guy like robert simply should raise his prices until he keeps pace with a level of work he is comfortable with. $600 for a barrel install? he doesn't charge that but hell I might have paid that much. I haven't had trouble getting a hold of him, but when I have talked to him he is very through and conscientious about the work being done. I haven't gotten the gun back yet so the real question is how its going to shoot.

Well, dealing with idiots like cumfullofcowboys would likely make anyone a bit nutty.

I hope you get your gun and it works well. Still a bit confused about a November completion and its May and you still don't have it? Also in your post you say he has your gun but you are examining the stock!!! Very Confused

cant imagine being in business and to busy to return calls or emails thats just an excuse that I cant tolerate.....

I just sent in the barreled action. So I had the stock the whole time. Yeah it should have been done long ago. I am sure if I called and bugged him more or asked where it was he would have got it done sooner. He has returned my calls and emails can't speak for others.

Steelhead your funny but I am trying to figure out how I am a difficult guy to deal with. Yeah things could have went better, but my impression of Robert is he is ver conscientious out his work and most importantly the end result. I am not annoyed or irrated

Taxidermist follow this same general pattern it seems. A local taxidermist was extremely talented and learned from one of the best. He decided to branch off and start his own thing. At first, all was well, low prices and outstanding service/quality. As his reputation grew, so did his business. His wait times and prices continued to grow as well. He was forced to hire people to do some of the more menial tasks. At this point, he would do all the tough stuff and detail work. Time passed and I watched him get busier and busier. He worked seemingly day and night for a few years and the very first thing that began to suffer was customer service. He wouldn't return phone calls, emails, etc... When you were able to reach him, he wasn't very friendly and often was downright rude. His wait times increased, his word meant nothing. It was obvious that he had dependency issues with drugs and alcohol. His life was falling apart. Business suffered and the quality of his work also suffered. People's animals were "misplaced", orders were "forgotten". More and more, phone calls, emails and texts were ignored. His business fell apart and closed.

The same general thing happens to businesses both big and small, just look what too rapid growth has done to Cabela's.

Pretty simple stuff...
Under-promise and Over-Deliver. Don't leave people hanging. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Even a mildly talented guy could make a heck of a living.

Him being conscientious and one of the best rifle builders in the business is not what this thread is about, his communication skills and being more up front about his delivery times are the issues.......if he would just under promise and over deliver you wouldn't hear all the negativity, but you can't leave your customers in the dark and expect things to go on smoothly forever!

I have done business with Robert in the past. I will not do business with him again nor will i recommend him to anyone. There are too many quality smiths who WILL deliver a quality product in a timely manner. He is a talented builder but the other stuff is not worth dealing with.

I am surprised it took this long for someone to finally post this type of thread. Glad they did. Its been a long time coming.

Gotta say I'm surprised to be reading this regarding Gradous. Never had work done by him but know he was held in high regard around here for years.

Are the problems mostly with communication, build times, both?

Looks like he should stayed a pig farmer.

Too many folks think it takes chants and SERIOUS talent to make a rifle shoot.

You are truly one miserable sonuvabitch.

It never fails, someone mentions COCK or CUM and there's RobJordan.

I have read nothing both good things about him.But this is starting to worry me ,I sent him parts for a build a couple of months ago.For the people with problems with him,has he ever not returned your parts when requested?

BOTH

Not too good at reading sign, eh?

I got my project back from Robert yesterday packed like overkill and he called yesterday to make sure I got it ok. Just posting my feedback

Good to hear you received it even though it should have been November 2015 instead of May 2016. Sure hope I'm next in line, I was promised an early November2015 delivery too and still waiting!

Spoke to Robert's helper with shipping. All of your rifles have now been shipped or will be shortly. We all have some rough times in life and Robert is no different. I know it is easy for me to say as I have received mine but I do know Robert does feel bad about what has happened with his back log. If it is any help I can tell you that you will not be dissatisfied with your rifle from Robert.

Its only been since October 2013. Maybe this year yet.....

Maybe Robert's helper should man the emails in the evening. There's much I can forgive, lack of communication ain't one of them. It's chickensheit, regardless of circumstances.

A simple solution, one that my revolversmith of many years uses, is to stop accepting work until he is very knowlegeable and comfortable with his back log and committing to a delivery date that he then meets.

Communication is key........

As is being honest about lead times.....

fwiw & Ime,
Robert Gradous is a [bleep] head case... Been there and experienced that...

Regards, Matt Garrett
Chesapeake, Virginia
757-581-6270

Been blowing up the phones at Gradous to get an update. Silence is the response after being told I'd have it soon.
Disappointed and feeling cheated. Might be time to take some more extreme measures.

The sooner the better or it will drag on longer

Gradous rifle sucks. I took my unfinished rifle from him and shipped it to a better honest gunsmith. There's a couple more members I had pm's with that have chosen to stay silent drove to Georgia and had to get confrontational with Gradous to get their components. Supposedly he used to be a good gunsmith. Use to be, not anymore.

October 2013 >>> unreal. Go get you're stuff.

Rock star gunsmiths...

Does anyone know what caused the Gradous fall?

I hope it wasn't the glass dick.

I spoke with him a year or so ago and got no comfort level what so ever. It was a very weird conversation that ended any plans that I might have had.

Well, he was a pig farmer.

Spoke to Robert. Guess he had a tremendous backlog but was shipping out quite a few finished rifles. Trust me it is worth the wait

Trust me, no it's not worth the wait.

I wish I could get in touch with him.

Still can't get him to answer the phone?

I haven't tried in a couple weeks, but I tried for a solid month before that. He's had a bunch of my parts for a long time. Way over a year.

Nothing worse than that. I would rather him actually pick up the phone and tell me to go [bleep] myself vs dodging me.

Amen

Yep. What bothers me is that talked to him several times when I was sending him my stuff and he was super nice, but now it seems like he just dropped off the face of the earth.

I'd just like to get my stuff back. Borden/Jewel/Bartlein/McMillan Classic

Road trip to get stuff, Send to Jon Beanland to build. my 2 cents.

Send him a certified letter stating that he has 7 business days to return your stuff or you will have no choice but to consider that he has stolen the parts in question and report it to the proper authorities and do all you can to get them to charge him with theft, mail fraud, etc.

Doubt that would work in this case. His Dad has a great reputation, the long term sheriff is about to retire, and the presumptive new sheriff probably won't care if some out of state guy is out of some gun parts

Across state lines would be a fed issue, I think. Especially involving firearms.

I've been thinking about just driving up there. I just hope he's home when I get there.

If that be the case then use any means necessary to get your stuff/money back from Gradous.

I've been reading this thread for a while now. Wow!
Signed up today to make my first post:

I've known Robert for many years and consider him a very good friend and valuable industry colleague.

This thread is very disappointing and looses credibility with each subsequent post.

Three pages of insults, complaining and negativity. This thread is a social media group therapy session for a handful of guys who have their fragile little egos hurt.

On Robert's Website it specifically states that he does not guarantee build times and that he builds each rifle himself.
A year+ is not a long wait for one of the top smiths in the US. And yes, he is still very much at the top of his game; you'd be enlightened once out of this forum's little bubble.

Robert's time is stretched very thin - much of it helping other well-known industry people trouble shoot or problem solve. Robert is very generous with his knowledge and time and above all else, he is honest.

Currently much of his time is devoted to R&D for some very exciting products that will prove significant contributions to the Precision Rifle Community.

Yes I know the OP was about "communication."
And no, Roberts communication is not perfect - but this thread has snowballed into a childish banter of insults and name-calling. We are all human and have lives outside of our day job or business - things get delayed - life happens.

This community is small. Very few people here are truly anonymous even though many post comments like they are 10 feet tall and bullet-proof - Do you guys wonder why you are having trouble now?

I never have understood what is so hard about answering a phone or returning a call that people have to make excuses for not doing it...

I mean how many jobs could the guy have and how many people could actually be calling on a given day...are we taking hundreds of jobs and 30 calls a day or what

customer service goes along way especially when you are a gunsmith charging premium prices

All of this is no excuse for a little communication, which goes a long way in customer service...

Blow it out your ass

What a delusional post. You think you guys get to do whatever you want, justify it however you want, and the rest of us just get to deal with it?

And you are saying that Gradous is going to get back at the 24HC crew because of this thread by continuing to ignore his customers while holding onto thousands of $'s worth of gear? Unreal but not surprising...

I can think of one profession where people think they can get away with this type of behavior, gunsmithing. Literally anything else in this country your azz would be fired years ago...

The good thing about it is that there are choices. Gradous will never be one of mine....

Plainsite, since you are such good friends with him, would you mind asking him to give me a call? Seriously.

He's probably had my stuff for three years or so. I don't even have any hard feelings. I would just like to be able to get in touch with him to get my things back.

I've talked to him quite a few times years back and we've always got along great on the phone. Until a month or so ago, it's probably been over a year since I've tried to contact him, so it's not like I've been bugging him. But, all of the sudden, it's like he dropped off the face of the earth.

[video:youtube]M2lfZg-apSA[/video]




No Rifle for You!





David

Your patience is quite admirable. I'd have been traveling at the two-year mark.

Jeff Hicks 2.0

Plainsite:

You post that [bleep] as your first post on the campfire, you weren't "planted" on here or anything were you.........

Plain.....let me start by saying you don't have the first clue, or any clue for that matter, robert used to be a one man show , now he has a guy that does the chambering in his new CNC so let me clue you in.....that means 2 people are involved with each rifle + a guy that does all the shipping, so the one man show is over, communication in a timely matter is all that most guys want, there are a host of other issues that are known by just a few guys here at the fire, that if mentioned here would really get people with rifles there fired up, so don't start posting like you have a clue because you don't!

That was the name I could not remember.
This place is like the movie groundhog day.
It just repeats.

dave

This attitude is exactly why Gradous should have lawyers and law enforcement crawling all over him for STEALING people's stuff and money.

The sooner he is driven into bankruptcy and /or jail the better.

Please give me just ONE example where a business can hold thousands of dollars of a customers money for over a year and not respond once via text phone call or email for 8 months and it be considered ok????? Plainsite I will be waiting for your answer

Taxidermists pull the same schit...

No excuse but this too ^^^^^^^^^^^

They hold the cards....

Attorneys.

devnutt I have to disagree.my attorneys keep my thousands of dollars but they or one of their reps will IMMEDIATELY take my call 24/7. Not the same still waiting for answer from plainsite

747nutt, obviously you've never dealt with estate attorneys. Good luck with the value your receiving.

Ron Jeremy is building my next rifle. If I'm going to get f*cked, might as well get f*cked by a pro.

My last build was screwed together by a campfire regular, and took like 3 weeks...

He's a technical wizard.

Went to his shop once when I was in TX. Got a good hassle from Border Patrol but other than that - he seemed nice. Crew seemed nice. Place was small.

Wasn't long after his issue hit. Maybe a year? I don't know what ever happened to him.

IIRC he had a partner Clay (?) that was a rather nice guy too. IIRC Clay was trying rather hard to keep the place afloat while Jeff was doing his shenanigans.

Same kind of crap often happens with custom knife makers. It's mostly a one man show. They take money in advance ,then when any life crisis happens they have spent the money and are not able to do the work. Most of the time they stay afloat a while robbing Peter to do Paul's work, but it eventually catches up to them and then they get too ashamed to answer the calls. It's really a shame and communication with honest would always help matters.

I disagree, just as I disagree that it's something that happens with taxidermists too.

The people that it DOES happen to are people with LOW MORAL CHARACTER, regardless of profession.

I don't really know what you are disagreeing about. I didn't mean my post as an excuse. Yes, low moral character is certainly a major contributor.

It has NOTHING to do with the profession and EVERYTHING to do with the individual.

747,
I had a very similar problem with a gunsmith I had became aware of on the benchrest central forum. He kept my rifle for more than 2 years. I finally had enough of what seemed like "alcoholic excuses". I asked him to return all of my parts immediately and then let him talk me into another two days because he was almost done. Well, when I got the rifle he had left the 3" barrel shank that I had written to be trimmed to
1 1/2" and it had a mirror finish barrel that I had written to be bead blasted.
I didn't send it back because I didn't want another 2 year delay.

Guys, when this crap happens you will probably be more satisfied to have another smith complete the work.

Stray Dog thanks for sharing your experience with me. It's unfortunate but seems to occur regularly. I have learned a lot from all the feedback. This is just my opinion but I will only use a smith within reasonable driving distance from now on.

Or use Kampfeld customs.
He's honest.

Talked to him 2 weeks ago (Kampfeld). Was more work than he had time to do and was honest about it. Much rather that than be B.S.'d and wait years. Had it happen before...told 6 weeks tops and 10 mos. later had a subpar overpriced semi-custom that shoots a hell of alot better than it looks, (which is better than looks better than it shoots.) and an overly proud Smith trying to convince me/himself of what a great job he'd done.

I see I'm not the only one who has given money to this scoundrel and not heard a word from him. I sent money back in February and have not been able to contact him since. It's hard to believe people have been putting up with this for two and three years, this is totally unacceptable behavior from any respectable person or business. I really thought something happened to the guy and we tracked him down through a family member, only to find out he is just fine.My next move is a certified letter, and then court if no response. I will spend what it takes to get justice and make others aware of his practices.

And the story goes on...........

He answered the phone personally when I called him over a year ago. He was seemingly honest about his lead times and I decided it was too long for me to wait. I asked if he could suggest someone that he thought worked to the same level of detail and skill that he did. Mathew Stewart has now plumbed 3 rifles for me and they all have far exceeded my expectations. I now worry about Matt becoming so busy that I'll find the wait too long. I know this doesn't put parts back in the hands of those waiting on Gradous but I guess I'm saying I lucked out and that there are other ways. Mark at SAC is another top shelf guy fwiw...

Oh, he was quick to respond and answer emails when I was looking for someone to do the rifle, but as soon as he got the money he cut off all communication.

All you guys are much more patient professional gentlemen than I can ever hope to be!

Hilarious thread.....

BobinNH if you think the original point of this post is hilarious you have a weird sense of humor IMO!!

To all of my friends and customers. My sincerest apologies for the confusion and delays. The delays were caused by a large expansion to the shop that now houses new cnc equipment and all ancillary equipment necessary for the job at hand.
The procurement of equipment, tooling, three phase power, transformers and construction took much longer than expected.
After working on guns for 21 years by myself. I have decided to train a small crew of select people with a skill set exceeding my own in many ways which includes communication skills that I don't have.
Thank you for giving me the chance to work for you as my passion is building the most accurate rifle possible.
Now that I have a couple of skilled and long time friends at the wheel to enhance my process of building guns I know we will be able to move through the back log quickly.
Monday the 29th we will be able to take all calls concerning builds.
Thank you for your support and patience.
Robert Gradous

Know of a taxi in western WA with a similar story. She does great work, but don't expect to get anything back in the next few years. Are detailed threads on Hunting-Washington about people waiting 3 years, some as long as 5 years to get their game back. She'll say a year, but then not contact you again. And you can try to get a hold of her, but good luck. And if you ever do, she's "working on" yours and should be done shortly, for no comms to continue for another year or two.

Stop accepting work if you can't deliver on the work you already have in your shop

Hopefully someone on your newly hired crew is well versed in business ethics and can teach you same.

David

Wow just wow. Hope it works out. Been there done that. Wife says one morning lets go get your stuff with " gunsmith" 18 months. "Gunsmith" shat his pants in front of other prospective customers. Jkobe did the work in 2 weeks. Just saying.

Go big or go home...

That is a good indication of Kobe's backlog. Just saying.

I'm still trying to get my stuff back after certified letters, the guy still won't contact me. I have no desire to wait any longer and just want was is mine back! Good luck to those who wait.

Sam,

The new equipment, tooling, three phase power & transformers apparently cannot read.

Good stuff!

all phone calls will be answered on Mon the 29th, it's going to be a long day...............

Some people actually work for a living instead of talking about working.

I guess I do.

In the overall scheme of things I don't consider this one of life's real problems.

But it's still an indication of his backlog.

Why not give a heads up on the FRONT end? Give guys the choice to take their stuff elsewhere if they don't want to wait. You know, the whole do unto others...

I could have a backlog of ten years if I only produced a few rifles here and there and let the stuff sit on a shelf. Unfortunately what happens is your customers get pissed off and want there stuff back, and money back, like what is going on here. And, when you won't have any contact with your customers, they get really pissed off, so much, that they start calling government agencies to step in and do something about it.

I've watch Gradous progress from offering customers to build their own rifles (years ago) to being a sensation. I have absolutely no doubt that the guy builds one of the tightest shooting rigs in the business. For that, he's built a highly-successful business where demand is high. With the demand, he is growing and adding labor and equipment.

Having been a customer with another big-name shop that fancies themselves to use lots of CNC, the result of work performed didn't equal the performance of the factory Remington 700 I sent in. they also seem to have had a revolving door regarding labor over the past 5 years. In fact, I had to send the rifle back TWICE due to QC issues. Rifle still doesn't meet my expectations using Krieger barrel. With that, my question is this?

Having new labor and equipment, can Gradous and crew still produce the same level of workmanship that Gradous soley produced in the past? Some think CNC makes work more precise...I see it as an opportunity to not perform QC as the expectations are that the machine will produce it. Therefore, you now have button pushers. Just my $.02 based on my experience.

I wish Gradous the best of luck and hope he comes out of this on top with happy customers. The customer should be able to set the direction for the items they own.

Very few people have the hand on skills to produce the quality and repeat ability of today's CNC machines.

That being said, cheap machines are much like cheap labor, you usually get what you pay for.

Threading barrels with today's insert able tooling means perfect threads every time.

But if you are going to spend 80 grand on a lathe and have a "would you like fries with that" kind of guy run it you will just learn that CNC machines are capable of making junk parts at far higher rate than a manual machine ever will.

I’ve been toying with the idea of selling a 2-year-old Gradous-built .280AI for a couple of months so I did a search to determine what other Gradous rifles might be for sale, and doing so I discovered this thread.

I feel like I need to share some of what I know. Robert does not need me to defend him – so I won’t. I will limit my comments to my experiences having him build 2 rifles for me, both of which shoot lights out. I had the good fortune of being in his shop at the time he built my rifles. While I did not actually help, I stood alongside and watched him and he explained to me every step in the process and why he did what he was doing and the benefit of taking the extra steps. I learned more about accurate riles and precision shooting in my short time with him in all the years previous. I found him to be one of the most genuine, polite, respectful, and kind gentlemen I’ve ever had the privilege of meeting. The man has forgot more about precision and what it takes to build an accurate rifle than the collective wisdom in this thread. Over the two separate weekends that I spent at his shop, more than a few gunsmiths called for his advice. These were men who are quite well thought of in the business of gun building.

Wait times and good communication are one side of the business, no question about that. The other side is highly accurate and well-built rifles. Robert Gradous has nothing to prove to anyone in that aspect. For my money, when it comes to really accurate, well-built rifles, talk is over-rated

The background noise will sound similar to the phone bank at the Jerry Lewis labor day Muscular Distrophy Telethon..........

Yawn.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to build an accurate rifle. Lots of guys that nobody here have ever heard of can build same.

It is unethical to accept work that you have no intention of beginning for years.

It is unethical to accept payment for work that you have no intention of beginning for years.

It is unethical to refuse to return calls/rifles & parts/money for work that you haven't started after you have ignored the customer for years.

It is unethical to accept work based on you performing the build, hold customers gun/parts/money for years then tell everybody its all good now - you've got a new shop w/ CNC equipment and gunsmiths you never agreed to will be performing the build (theoretically) on your rifle.

Highly unscrupulous business practices. He'll never get any business from me.

David

Take it from a machinist with 37 years of experience, and 37 of those years involved with CNC machines, the machine means nothing, it has to do with the person programming and setting up the machine. I am one of the best there is at doing complex close tolerance work, yet I chose to let someone with experience building rifles put my gun together, makes all the difference in the world. Of course, if said builder won't build the rifle like he promised, or return calls, I would have been better off doing it myself.

Nothing in the above post surprises me. I have never dealt with Gradous but have dealt with many custom builders. I bet he builds a hell of a rifle.

Unless you have a signed contract with a guaranteed delivery date, you have nothing except the incessant whining on the Internet. The rifle should be delivered in a "reasonable" period of time....define that for me LOL!

These kangaroo court indictments of sole proprietor custom smiths make me LMAO. Only an idiot would even post them.

So, are phones ringing off the wall?

Mine sure hasn't.

I know Robert but have not spoken to him since before this thread began. I can't speak for Robert's customer service but I can speak to his talents as a gunmaker and his qualities as a man.

When I set out to learn how to fit and chamber my own barrels, one of the most well-respected gunmakers in the country told me that I should learn from Robert. Robert is not a "monkey see, monkey do" gunmaker but, rather, a very intelligent man who asks "why?" at every step in the process. He is a next-level thinker. His techniques are always pushing the boundaries of perfection which is why he gets calls all day long from others in the business asking for his input. Any hack can fit and chamber a barrel but a select few guys take the process to the level that he does.

Robert didn't know me from a hole in the ground but he put me up on his farm and spent two days walking me through the building process. Our mutual friend's endorsement was enough for him. He taught me the "why" of every step and challenged me to ensure that I was getting the picture. During my time in his shop, I witnessed a steady stream of calls and visits from people who wanted, and received his help. He would not accept my money for his time and, for that, I am eternally grateful.

I have been in the shoes (with other makers) of the frustrated customers who are waiting patiently for their rifles and I'm not here to make excuses on anyone's behalf. Part of the reason that I learned to build my own rifles was that I couldn't stand waiting for others to do the work, only to find that it wasn't done correctly. That said, I can't stand by and watch a guy get dragged through the mud who was so generous to me. If Robert wasn't constantly helping others, he'd surely get more work done. All I can say is, when he's done with your rifle, it will shoot.

He was just beginning the physical expansion of his shop when I visited. Hopefully his new equipment and staff will help him speed up his build process and work through his backlog. I hope that for him, as well as his customers.

Curious - how much time does RG have using CNC to produce close tolerance gun builds?

No dog in the fight but seems to me if the CNC is new to him - last thing I'd want is to be his guy's new guinea pig.

Robert has a guy who does his machining and programming and is supposed to be very good...........all the shop needs now is a chef a secretary and a phone that works!

ASK.....I did. It's not hard to be a wise consumer. Lots of top shelf gun builders take a long time to produce such a weapon.

More than 37 years? After all - someone here is one of the best with that experience and he wouldn't do it...

Have you had him build a rifle?

Have you ever spoken with the man?

Accurate is one thing. Gradous accurate is another.

Ever heard of law of diminishing returns? It requires a lot of additional attention to detail to gain the last nth degree of performance.

If you have a field gun that can agg .250" then you understand but I bet a ham sandwich you don't.

Apparently your reading comprehension isn't very good.

Refer to my post you quoted.

David

Don't know his exact credentials but he's a retired machines and Iv'e heard he is very good....as in many years experience!

Apparently your understanding of sarcasm and irony ranks right up there with your understanding of top shelf gun builders. I can promise you he doesn't need nor want your business.

Makes me think of the film animal house. " blow job"

Judging by your response I've got a much better handle on sarcasm and irony than you do.

1 would bet a whole lot more than a ham sandwich that you don't have a 1/4MOA hunting rifle built by Robert or anyone else you idiot.

Prove me wrong.

David

I am still and always will be a fan of Robert and his rifles. They are incredible...

Not me, I had few Gradous rifles and sold'em. I'd buy a Marlin XL7 bolt rifle....even one used in .270 before hiring him & his crew to build one.

Sitting on customers' cash and rifle parts for years and not returning their calls has zero to do with gunsmithing skills.

The most accurate rifle in the world doesn't amount to much if it's not delivered.

^ NAILED IT!! ^

All I can say is had you met the guy you would know weird on a whole new level. I spent a weekend there. He can spot a stop sign 2 miles away, and your gonna hear about that sign until your stopped at it. He needs to remember to take his meds and this kinda stuff wouldn't happen.

Whats the average delivery time on a Gradous rifle?

Mine have taken 6 months to a year. I was never in a rush to get it back. Rarely checked progress as I knew it would show up when he was done.

When I took his gun building class it took a week for us to build it together

No matter how wonderful his rifles may be there's no excuse for taking customer's money and not delivering nor communicating. Expanding the shop etc., etc. is no excuse nor is admission of the lack of business skills.

No not an excuse at all...it sounds like it's all part of the plan...

It's Crowdfunding.

Has anyone tried calling him? I thought I read in an earlier post that he was going to start answering calls regularly starting last Monday since his equipment and others new items were in place. I called him just recently and we had a good talk..

Thought the exact same thing. CNC is expensive.

Exactly.

Piss poor practice. I can't fathom anyone still licking his nuts

You have the calling thing backwards. The pig farmer should be making the calls.

Robert knew how to talk and make phone calls before the new project ever was thought of....when the phone rang he just chose to answer the calls that he knew were not over due builds....

Not sure how he thought all the owners of the way over due builds would just sit back and wait forever without saying anything!

Especially in this day and age of forums, social media, etc. Communication is easier than ever, and can be good or bad for you. If his product is as good as people say it is, just some communication on his part would have prevented a whole lot of bad stuff being said about him that easily show up on a google search.

So you're trying to imply the guy running a professional business holding fists full of cash is reponsible to communicate to customers about unexpected/expected delays in work orders? Chit.....

I agree

The guys in here constantly complaining probably still squat to take a pizz.I hear you drone on and on about how awful Robert is but alas, not a damn peep with regards to where your candy asses has sent your rifles to. Target pics? Some people just like to rattle to hear their selves talk. Here's the thing, I have had custom builds from Smiths from all over for me for benchrest, tactical, F-class, etc etc. I was Always chasing the carrot. To date, NONE can build a stick to shoot w/what Robert builds. Let me say it again, NONE!!!! Here's the thing about burning your bridges, when you're on the outside looking in it just plain sucks watching the accuracy party carry on without you. EVERY Biz has growing pains and Roberts is no different. Personally, I will always be a loyal Gradous rifle owner and end user. Let me know how those .5 to 3/4 '' at best MOA groups are working out for ya. You guys don't deserve a Gradous build but I suspect you'll get exactly what you deserve in the end though.

^^^^^^^^

I'm tired of the crying manginas too. Amen. Move on.

Yep - no one can hang with him.

Please post pics of all of your custom builds from the aforementioned list you just supplied.

I'm not claiming no one can build a rifle that is as good as someone - you are. I simply posted that apparently many do.

The only whiners here are the RG nuttlickers who can't understand that their guy is this go around's Jeff Hicks. No more, no less.

Daddy Rabbit READ the chart. Numbers don't lie. RG is ONE of the best, but there are many! Correct load development for any rifle is another factor.I am very pleased with my RG rifle after I developed a load for it and we settled our bump in the road and moved on. Also I would be specific to which people on this list squatt or are candy asses. If you think we fit that category here in rural central Texas bring your ass down here and the matter can be further discussed.

So i am wondering how many people have requested their parts back recently and actually received them? Or will they sit in the back room
for the rainy day fund?

Here's another carrot for you to chase. Though I doubt this stick will shoot what you like.

Lol

Pretty sad....

Not sad, but funny as fu-k!

If your daddy calls you and you dont answer, you're gonna get a knot slapped on your head.

If you call your dog and he doesn't come, he will be disciplined.

If a man has thousands of dollars of my money and parts and wont answer the phone, he's gonna get knots on his head for my trouble!

It's simply about respect!

The turd polishers in this thread can spin it any way they choose.

In all probability, that chart simply reflects how "well known" the smith is. Geroge Gardner shoots the rifles his shop builds in competition...great for name recognition.

Let me guess, your moral compass is stuck on south.

Exactly! I am surprised some of the people Gradous put the screw on haven't been down to discuss things with him.

BULLSCHITT! Gradous isn't the only man who can build an accurate rifle.

At this very moment I can go put my hand on three different custom rifles than will shoot well into the low .2' and .3's MOA consistently out to 500 yards and I didn't have to spend thousands of dollars or wait multiple years to get any of them.

So a guy with a several year backlog like RG (ignore the fact that this somehow precludes him from using the phone or email) isn't well known and wouldn't be well known to people shopping for a rifle?

How does that work exactly?

So unknown you have to wait 30 months to get your product?

Being that well unknown must mean is's a 4-6 year wait for something from GAP then - right?

No dog in this fight. He hasn't done any work for me. I don't understand the chart. Top 50 shooters of what? I know a lot of National Champions in different shooting disciplines and none of them use any listed on this charts. Flesh this out a little please.

Butch,
I think they are talking about tactical rifle shoots in that chart....a whole different crowd than the benchrest guys you are familiar with....I didnt think they needed 1/4 inch rifles in those shoots although to have a rifle that shoots that is great....

I think the one new poster here might not understand the benchrest crowd has been shooting under a 1/4 inch and then some for years...

And their are probably many sporter class rifles that may shoot 1/4 or better but I dont think most guys are capable of shooting that with an 8 pound rifle on an everyday basis including me

Gene great comment. For a post that started long ago about lack of communication it seems to have turned to rifle accuracy of which I think the guy shooting the "most accurate" rifle part of the equation has been totally forgotten.

Me too.

Since you seem to have blinders on...I'll spell it out for you...I was only commenting on the chart...not the wait times.

If that sinks in, you'll see that the rest of your post is off the mark. At least with me.

Butch, you have a lot of experience in rifle building, would you PM me a recommendation or two for a good honest gunsmith pls? Not looking for a fly weight builder for this one but a sendero type. Thanks

The LRI in my avatar makes 1/4" easy...and it took a weekend to turn around.

When building a rifle, if one starts with a decent action, adds a quality barrel, stock, ensures bedding is good, and has a good trigger and scope, the shooter must remember, the loads and driver all add up in the equation. A good smith is also integral, and there are many good ones. Some not so good.

Like medicine and other professions, some folks have great "Clinical skill" and knowledge, and may or may not have a good "bedside manner" - likewise some may have better or worse business skills. Lastly, we are all human and not perfect.

Find someone you like, trust, and has a reputation of doing quality work. Unless you are shooting bonafide competition for score, milking the last few thousands of accuracy can tax one's wallet, the gunsmith, and the owners shooting and handloading skill. Each person must decide what their needs are and proceed accordingly. Not all gunsmiths are equal in skill, personality, and pricing. But there are MANY who will make an owner happy.

Wish all those building projects much fun and success in your projects. It often requires patience of varying lead times. How long is a project worth waiting is up to the shooter. It's nice when you can get one done in days, weeks, or a few months. I've often spent upwards of a year just getting all my parts together.....so that burns up one's patience to a degree.

WTF Cliff? Stop smoking cheap pot.

I've never used the guy for smith work, but I'm a fairly patient man when it comes to other people. I could likely forgive some legitimate delays to get what I want, just the way I want it. But I'd not put up with months of no contact at all. Dodging customers for long periods of time when you already have their parts and money is not excusable, regardless of the quality of the work product.

A trick I used to get a hold of a 'smith that wouldn't answer my calls was to setup a Google voice number in his city or other locale. I figured he was dodging my calls but wasn't dodging new business. If true, this was going to be tough for him as he would potentially be dodging future business as I rotated phone numbers. VOIP has its privileges.

The guy picked right up and proceeded to (while stuttering) tell me he lost pieces to my parts and was trying to source new ones. Once I told him the manufacturer was a different manufacturer and not the one he sourcing, things were quickly in motion and my items were sent to me (fixed).

Such a simple thing. Here it is.

Those that are defending these actions are quite telling...

If I pulled this stunt with my customers, they'd have my ass. I'd have been beating on his door a year ago....

There's been a couple guys in his drive way waiting for him when he came home because he would not answer their phone calls...

Did they have any luck getting their money or stuff back?

You would think that if in deed the whole shop was overhauled that they might update their web page.

Yes.....

I am glad they were able to recover from hum.

[/quote]
WTF Cliff? Stop smoking cheap pot. [/quote]

Funny, but I have never smoked it. Fact.

Stoney, I believe you misunderstood me. To Clarify my original position:

I was in NO WAY Condoning the actions of RG, Nor suggesting anyone do business with him or use Any Gunsmith who is not professional in how they treat their customers. It is obvious what's happened with RG and his customers is 100% UNACCEPTABLE. Very unfortunate for the customers who put their trust, faith, dollars, and parts in his hands.

On the contrary, there are MANY Good Gunsmiths Other than RG, who will build a good product, at a good price, and treat customers as they deserve, in a professional, respectful, and timely manner. Those other gunsmith's all have varying lead times that can be honestly estimated and communicated up front and they will honor said commitments or pro-actively communicate any delays due to unforeseen events.

So, for the record, I was never endorsing RG, or excusing his actions, Not in the least. I WAS pointing out, that in the process of building a custom rifle, it is often a time consuming process. That was exclusive of RG.

I hope that clarifies my original position.

It's over!!!!!!!!!

You got your stuff back?

Yep!

Glad you got your stuff back.

Glad to hear it.

David