If you had maximum points, which unit would you want to hunt?

Which Tier 1 Wyoming Trophy Outfitter would you want to go with?

Which Hunt dates would be most advantageous for a monster Elk?

Equipment Recommendations: Any tips are appreciated particularly for Boots / Pac Boots, Coats Fleece vs. Wool or anything else to keep you warm and dry you wish to share.

It seems Woolrich has gone woke and I don't even think they make their Hunting coat anymore. Filson raised their prices $100 last year and I hear the quality is not what it used to be after they were bought out.

Anyone have any experience with this Wool Coat?
https://micklagaard.com/en-us/collections/jackets-1/products/jacka-kebne?variant=31604037746821

How cold does it get on a late season hunt?

I wouldn't share a specific area I wanted to draw/hunt

I wouldn't use a outfitter/guide

I would hunt whatever season I preferred, be it archery or rifle.

I prefer mountaineering boots (asolo, la sportiva, zamberlan, etc) over most garbage you can find at cabelas.

If you want a warm coat for late season, first lite Chamberlin, thank me later. Puffy pants are a must too if you're going to be stationary/glassing for long periods.

It can be below zero at night and single digits during the day in October. Late season can be colder.

Probably be looking at wagon hound outfitters !

I prefer mountaineering boots (asolo, la sportiva, zamberlan, etc) over most garbage you can find at cabelas.
I am not shopping at Cabela's.

If you want a warm coat for late season, first lite Chamberlin, thank me later. Puffy pants are a must too if you're going to be stationary/glassing for long periods.

Would that get ripped apart with lots of feathers in the air in the bush ? Above treelined I could see that being a good choice.

It can be below zero at night and single digits during the day in October. Late season can be colder.[/quote]

I'm going to assume that's your question due to the quote job cluster.

You won't be hiking around in that jacket, unless you want to get sweated out and die of hypothermia. It's an extremely warm coat. When you're moving, it's usually a good idea to remove layers to try and minimize sweating as much as possible.

124

Drop the idea of a wool coat--heavy, takes forever to dry if it gets wet.

Think multiple thin layers, baselayer, shirt, vest, puffy coat, and a shell for wet weather and/or wind.

Big bulls in the Thoroughfare area and in area 7 with Wagonhound.
7 has the rep for big bulls but they can be found all over the state.
Best outfitters are booked for a few years out, maybe willing to PP share and get in earlier?

Several good outfitters in area 7 to choose from also, not just Wagonhound.

My son and I are putting in with 16 & 15 non-resident points. Plan on going outfitter/horseback into a wilderness area adjacent to Yosemite Park. Still need to draw tags and the point creep is a potential problem. We have good rifle dates: Oct 1 - 6. Get tags first and worry about gear later.

Maybe not Yosemite??

:-)

For me personally, I would be more concerned about the type of elk hunt. ie a pack-in horseback hunt in the Thoroughfare is a much different hunt than a ranch hunt in something like unit 7.

For me it’s the quality of the experience . Hunting horseback, in wilderness, hearing bulls bugling from your tent while listening to hobbled horses feeding , the grind of up early , back late, watching sparks fly from horseshoes/rocks on the ride. The smell of coffee perking while you saddle up horses... Cold starry night skies in and out. The smell of elk up close in dark timber......

Yes sir, give me a pack in wilderness horseback hunt in middle to late September early October.....

Did you get the coat? I'm intrigued by it

Not trying to insult anyone, but a Top Tier outfitter in the glamour areas/ranches or seasons is going to be 10-16k for a trophy hunt.

A pack in thorofare hunt on a general license a little less. Just to get that out of the way. Maybe that's no big deal, but it is a serious chunk of change for lots of people.

And lots of the good outfitters are booked up pretty good.

It can be dang cold on a late season or just cool. There is zero chance I'm wearing those wool coats on that kind of hunt, or really any kind in Wyoming. A giant down puffy is lighter and warmer.

Check out Josh at Shoshone Lodge Outfitters or Joe Poteat with South Fork outfitters. Joe has a unit 58 camp that is a late season hunt and kills some big ass bulls. And with max points outfitters won't be filled up on the LE units as the odds of NR's drawing are slim.

If you want good wool clothing check out Sleeping Indian or King of the Mountain.

JeffP

For me it’s the quality of the experience . Hunting horseback, in wilderness, hearing bulls bugling from your tent while listening to hobbled horses feeding , the grind of up early , back late, watching sparks fly from horseshoes/rocks on the ride. The smell of coffee perking while you saddle up horses... Cold starry night skies in and out. The smell of elk up close in dark timber......

Yes sir, give me a pack in wilderness horseback hunt in middle to late September early October.....[/quote]

This mirrors exactly what I was thinking of saying in a reply…. My thoughts also.

Ozarks

Josh Martogolio is who I'm booked with. Greybull River area.

Yes, I was concerned about the down coat being ripped apart riding the horse thru the treelined. I have a pair of Mountain Hardware Compressor pants with full size zipper I can put on. I just bought Kuiu Attack pants to wear under the MHP or if the Kuiu pants are not warm enough I could wear Wool pants under the puffy pants.

I am hearing that 59-01 is the place to go for the monsters.

Anyone have any comment on area 16 for a late hunt for top quality trophies?

The top tier Outfitter I spoke to told me that he and his guides all wear Wool from head to toe. I understand what you are saying about layers and light weight, coming from someone who has done 3 Sheep and 1 Goat hunt, I understand. But, the man said Wool, so now I am hesitating.

The Woolrich Hunting Coat that is in great shape that even has a zippered liner that most font have that I wore in the 1980s and 90s is a 42" and no longer fits me. Woolrich has gone woke and doesn't even make this coat anymore.

Filson, was bought out, raised their prices $100 about 1 year ago on the Double Mac' Cruiser to $495 and the quality has gone down. That's Why I did some research and came up with that Swedish Coat from Micklagaard. For the same money are Filson, it seems like a superior Coat.

Can you put me onto some more good outfitters in Area 7 in case I end up there?
Wagonhound is a name that keep coming up. There must be others?

I wish you good luck. I would like to read your AAR upon your return and or talk to you by phone when you get back. Are you going Fall 2023?

Aren't you an Outfitter or Guide in Alaska? If yes, please drop me a PM.

Could he mean Yellowstone ?

No, I wanted to see if anyone here had tried it out and if the members here thought it might be a good idea. Apparently, the preference here is for low weight , high warmth / high tech instead of the durability of Wool. I thought with the horse doing much of the work, it might now matter if my coat was heavy or not. Being out there from sunup to sundown and being comfortable enough is important.

Ralphie, I don't disagree with what you are saying. I think it is a lot of money for anyone. The one Outfitter I did speak to is at $15K, which I do have and I know what I am getting into. I have been on enough Guided hunts in Alaska, Mexico and most of the Canadian provinces to have learned the hard way the time is be cautious and do your research is now, not after things didn't work out or you got screwed. So, I am in the research phase now and won't be going this year. A weeks ago I thought I would go this year, but now I can see not this year.

I am only going to do this once more for Elk, so I want the best Area, Best Outfitter, the best timing to give me the best possible chance to shoot a monster, hopefully B and C Elk.

I appreciate everyone input and opinion. Thank You.

While I have everyone actively talking about Wyoming. I have also been applying for the Moose and Sheep and will soon be going for those as well. Anyone with any input into a Trophy area for those 2 animals and a Trophy outfitter for Wyoming Sheep and Moose please chime in. I would like to read your input.

You might talk to Chance at extreme outfitters. I don’t think it’ll be a backcountry hunt but they kill big stuff.

With regards to the wool or puffys. Don’t necessarily judge the best clothes by what the outfitter wears. I still see guides wearing filson tin pants, rubber cowboy boot covers, and jean jackets. I wear a down puffy on long rides all the time in some of the same country you are talking about. I used to wear wool too. There’s lots mo better now. But you can sure get it done with wool.

Sorry to bring up the budget deal. Guys are always asking about reasonable (cheap is what they usually mean) hunts.

Ralphie,
Who do you like for thoroughfare hunts?

I've been noodling a bit on those.

Thanks.

Ralph, I am used to hiking, I have not done a horseback type hunt and that is why I ask so many questions about the gear. I know 150 years ago many of the guys living and working in the mountains were using Wool and it worked for them, but they do not have the options we have today. Everything has its place. When I used to hunt Saskatchewan, I did not wear Wool, but some did wear King of the Mountain, which is good stuff as long as it is not too windy. But, others went for high tech and wore Northern Outfitters or the locals wore Raven Wear of Canada, which is what I bought and can wear on this hunt, it is an option. It does not compress to put in a pack is the main downside.

I don't mind discussing budget. These guys sure are getting telephone numbers for fees in todays world. I understand with inflation and their costs are high, but I feel that their prices increased faster than inflation has over the last 20 years. In the 90s I was going on 5 Guided hunts per year in the Fall. Now, that would be unaffordable or just plain not worth it to me. I don't want to go with a cheap Outfitter then it doesn't work out the way I want and I will regret it and this is my final chance to get a B.&C. Bull, due to todays prices we are talking about.

Which units does Extreme Outfitters hunt in? I would much prefer to spend around $10K, but in the prime areas I want to hunt in I don't believe that is possible.

It looks like area 59-1 may be my focus to try to spot an exceptional animal crossing the thoroughfare leaving Yellowstone and passing by. I expect to sit on a mountain top for 7 days or more, with my Spotting Scope letting many Bulls walk on by as my guide tells me field scoring until the right one crosses, while my Coat and Pac Boots try to keep me from freezing.

I looked at Shoshone Lodge Outfitters web site who say they take Bulls in the 350 class. The picture on their web site has to be a monster of 385 or more, big difference.

Probably the one downside to current lightweight clothing will be durability, you may be right about that.

I grew up horsepacking for elk. I guided in Colorado and New Mexico for 35 years. I did it for the fun of it rather than the money because my day job paid more than guiding ever will. The clothing I'm wearing today is probably 1/3rd the weight of what I was wearing 30-40 years ago. My rifle is a whole lot lighter too. I was just looking at my "frigid weather" wool pants hanging in my outdoor clothing closet that I haven't worn in 20+ years. The chances of me ever wearing those again are nil.

About the time a guy thinks he going to shoot an elk with the horse nearby is the time he ends up in a elk race to the top of the ridge and finally gets back to the horses 6 hours later.

Get some good Sitka pants or the like, the colder weather ones and go with merino under layers, various weights.
A puffy goes under a tougher out layer and would be very warm without weight.
For a good wool coat look on Ebay for a King of the Mountain or Sleeping Indian.
Wool socks ands good insulated boots are all needed for the feet.
Gaiters for snow or wet grass.

TurkeyTrack outfitter, Elk Mountain Outfitters, Rockin' 7 and Cross C ranch also work in area 7.
Triple Creek Hunts has ground in another good trophy area. None are like Thorofare Hunts, wilderness type hunts.
These are SE Wyoming outfitters and the hunting is not wilderness type of hunts, many will be ranches on rugged ground.

I went on a horse back hunt in Wyoming this past year. I do not think that wilderness hunt and monster bulls go hand in hand, as a result. We all took respectable five points, and Im not a bit unhappy but if I wanted a monster bull I'd be on a private ranch someplace. YMMV

I took a Sitka whitetail jacket, a wool sweater, two wool shirts, two pairs of pants, and two sets of wool under layers. I was never wishing I had more clothes and spent alot of time in just shirt sleeves. October 7-13 at 8-10,000 feet. The group before us had much more snow and cold than we did. We dealt in mud as a result of melting snow.

Those wilderness hunts aren’t usually for big bulls until you are talking the late seasons with lots of cold and snow.

It’s been about 4 years since I was guiding in there but I think Yellowstone outfitters is a good one though I hear they are booked for quite awhile. There are other good places in there too

Cold zero. For clothes on a horseback hunt I view it as I’m going to take similar stuff that the hikers take with the luxury of not having to pay so much attention to weight. But it’s still important. I don’t get into the trendy expensive brands. I hunted elk late October through late December here and never wore wool besides merino long handles and socks. Down and synthetic puffys. Merino and synthetic base layers. Grid fleece. Fleece lined hiking pants. Currently considering some puffy pants.

Josh martoglio was mentioned above. I think he’s an excellent choice for elk and sheep.

Extreme outfitters hunts several elk units. Give them a call and tell him your situation. They hunt sheep deer and antelope too. The owner just killed a bomber moose. They’ll book up. As Josh probably will too.

Shoshone mtn lodge was also mentioned and they should be considered for both a late season elk and probably sheep.

Ditto the wilderness hunts not being first choice for truly big bulls. They are there for sure but private land or ridiculously hard draws are the ticket for those kinds of bulls without spending weeks scouting and hunting.

Call me weird, but I still way, way prefer quality wool to synthetics for the really cold, below freezing hunts. If rain and/or slush is in the mix, then synthetics do come into play for me. I don’t mind the extra weight and slight restriction of movement of quality wool for the most part, most especially if it is below 0 F and snow is on the ground. In those temps, I am head to toe in high quality wool. They both have their place but wetness is where I have found synthetics to be better.

One thing to keep in mind though is that even if you’re on horseback, weight should still be a consideration, somewhat. Those horses work HARD and keeping their loads somewhat light helps keep saddle sores down as well as keeping them in better working condition. The one exception to that is arsehole horses that need weight to get tired out and behave better. Sometimes that is called for.

I think the Thorofare calls to me just because of the history and romance of it all. I grew up reading about it and I'm 68 with 12 points and I hear the clock ticking.

I've been trying for a area 7 tag but point creep has me one behind each year. Just pondering on how best to use them.

Thanks to you and Ralphie for the thoughts.

Interesting that a lot of you guys are advocating wool. Around here and in the outfitter camps I guided in synthetics were a lot more popular, although often some wool clothing was part of our hunting attire.

T Inman,
Wet is exactly why I don't primarily wear wool. The new Merino wools are light years better than what I grew up and is slower to get wet, but once wet wool takes exponentially longer to dry than synthetics--and it loses much of its insulating ability. Plus at 66 years old the lightweight synthetics definitely makes it easier and uses less energy to traverse rough country.

As good as weather predicting has become in recent years sometimes it can be spectacularly wrong in the mountains. When I step out of the cabin/truck/tent I am prepared mentally and gear-wise to spend an unintentional night outside despite my best intentions. I don't want to be doing that with wet clothing that takes forever to dry.

An item of clothing that I haven't seen mentioned on the 'fire are the newish fleece lined pants. I have worn a pair of Mtn Hardwear pants elk hunting the last two years. The only time I wore a bottom base layer of silk under those pants was when I planned on taking a stand in the morning a couple times. Several of those mornings during each of these past two seasons temps were in the single digits when I started out. I am quite surprised at how well these pants have worked. Very temp regulating, warm when I need them but not suffocating me when climbing back out of the canyon in the afternoon. I have bought some cheaper ones for working around the house and plan on buying another pair or two of the more expensive ones for hunting.

I'm booked for an early October pack-in rifle hunt (General license) and the outfitter has a 50 lb weight limit for gear (not including rifle and backpack).

One thing to consider also about Wyoming is that a lot of outfitters (at least mine anyway) have a hunt duration of 6 days.

Wool does not lose it's insulating ability when wet, that is exactly what it is known for, warmth when wet. We wear wool when it's cold, not going to rain and the snow just sits on top of the better brands. It felts after time and becomes denser making it warmer and more wind blocking.

How many sheep PPs do you have Cold Zero, moose too ? We have many areas that are fine for DIY hunting. My B&C sheep is from one such area.

I think I am looking for Northern Wyoming. Isnt area 59 Northern.

On Black Friday I bought a pair of Kuiu Attack Pants and my second pair of pants will be Wool, nice and loose with suspenders. KOM everyone is saying that it is heavy and with high wind the wind goes thru it. There does seem to be an even split in this topic about high tech synthetics vs. old school Wool. I believe based on this topic and the consensus here I won't buy the heavy Wool coat I link to at the top of this topic. I can see it sitting in a closet for many years once this hunt is over. I have a pair of Outdoor Research Gaiters to keep the snow out.

No one has recommended any boots yet. Anyone hav any opinion on Hoffman Double Insulated Pac boots vs. Schnees Hunter II or Extreme 10" ? Is a 0F boot rating enough ro should I go -20F ?

Any word on whether the max points will go up or not in 2023 ?

Alpinecrick

I think maybe part of the reason the Guides gravitate towards Wool, besides centuries of proven in the field use is that it holds up to daily usage over a season better than the more fragile synthetics will to rips, tears, burns, stains, etc. AKA hard sustained use.

Always good to have a guides input.

Heeler, My Outfitter better get an extra horse then. At least in a bush plane you usually get a 60 lb limit. For the kids of fees we pay, I will be bringing more than 50 lbs and he can figure it out.

If you really want a 7 tag I’d just go into the special draw and you should be good to go.

18 Moose
18 Sheep

I am too old now for DIY and time away from work is precious. I need a pros help to give me the best chance possible at a monster. After about 20 years of working towards this, I want every possible thing I can control going in my favor.

I may as well announce now, this topic will go one for quite awhile. Once the hunt is over I will update everyone here how it all finally played out. I appreciate everyones help.

Ralphie

If you are looking for light weight puffy pants take a look at these with full side zips and weigh less than two pounds.

https://www.mountainhardwear.com/p/mens-compressor-pant-1561481.html?dwvar_1561481_color=090

Sorry to break this to you but you probably don’t need to worry about a moose and sheep hunt in Wyoming with 18 points.

A couple of points about the wool vs synthetic and puffy. When it’s real cold there is little chance getting wet from rain or snow. That’s when a down not synthetic puffy really shines. If it’s going to be wet it’ll be a little warmer and I’m using synthetics and good rain gear. Wool is heavy when dry and worse when it’s wet. But Wyoming doesn’t really get wet when compared to the PNW.

My non wool stuff has managed to hold up guiding in Wyoming since 2005. But I won’t argue the fact that good wool wears like iron. It just isn’t worth the cost of weight and not as warm to me.

I’m always shedding layers, putting them in my pack, then getting them back out and putting them on. I’ve had numerous wool items and I ain’t going back for hunting anyway. Whether I’m wearing it or in my pack I’m moving better with the down and synthetic than wool.

There’s lots of ways to do it. Obviously there’s accomplished guys on this thread doing it different from me.

Looking forward to hearing about your hunt.

I think your idea about Down vs. Synthetic puffer makes sense. Maybe the winning strategy is to bring one of each and the synthetic one should have a Gore Tex or Pertex outer shell, for when it does rain or snow.

I am aware that I need several more points for a top Moose/Sheep area, so for now my focus is on the Elk, since that will happen sooner.

Rough Country Outfitters

Ditto on what Ralphie said. 18 points will likely never get you a sheep tag. A non-resident friend of mine finally drew last year with 23 points. With the reduction in sheep tags from 25% to 10%, the number of non-res. licenses went from roughly 50 to 20 per year.

BOHICA

Once I burn my points, I'm ditching WYO

Boots... I took uninsulated Kenetrek hardscrabble hikers and wore them exclusively. I had my Schnee's pac boots in the truck and left them there. The weather forecast didn't call for that level of boot and i'm glad I left them. Ymmv. If you don't have the kind of socks I had or have perpetually cold or hot feet you might do different. I took my boots off frequently in the afternoons and let my feet air out. The guys the week before me did not. i didn't want more than the gear I had up there, I don't want all that stuff to keep track of all week long.

Yep! I’m toast. I’ve got 18 Bighorn PP’s and I’m 67. Before the 90/10 split, there was a glimmer of hope that I’d draw before I’m in a wheelchair but I don’t see how now. No NR tags in the random anymore. Not even 1 that us poor NR bastards can compete for with .01% chance of drawing. My only hope now is that one day I retire to WY and can use my points as a resident. Im not even sure if they will let my poor country Tennessee ass in the great state of Wyoming as a resident. We’ll see!

Mackey

I am looking for a 59-01 tag at this point.

My NR plan was never to draw PP until 18 and stop, but instead to continue to draw points until I have enough to draw a tag in the best possible Trophy unit. We are talking Elk now since that will happen first, then the Moose and the Sheep last, if that one ever happens.

I believe max Moose and Sheep points right now are 23? Anyone know the date the NR points go on sale for 2023? May as well get it over with.

Does Rough Country do Are 59? Who are the Area 59-01 Outfitters?


The names in Tier One that keep coming up are Wagonhound, Shoshone, Extreme Outfitters, SouthFork Outfitters LLC, Elk Mountain for Area 7.

That's good information, I did not know.

I responded about unit 7 outfitters