Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Trying to Legislate Antler Restrictions into NY

Habitat management to attract wildlife is nothing new. Native Americans were doing it with fire when we came here.

Look guys, no matter where you are...you have to have a healthy doe herd. Bucks born make up 51%-does49% of the herd. When some of the north eastern states started passing out doe tags some years back, every body was happy, as I remember. So, what did they do? They went out and hunted hard for a day or two for a buck then went to shooting does. Some of the areas w/a high density were able to survive and are still good. The other areas that shot too many in low density areas now don't have any deer. Bucks don't have the babies. On one s.Texas ranch I'm familiar w/ has to kill 105-110 does a year just to keep the herd in balance. That sounds like a lot of does but it's really not when you consider the size of the place. If they get close to their number they don't worry about it. If they shot 200 or 250 does they would have problems...and soon. There's an old code in Texas that goes back to the 50's. You can shoot whatever you want at the deer lease...just don't under any circumstances kill a doe. That thinking pervaded even into the 90's in some of the hill country. So several of the areas in the hill country are still somewhat over populated to this day. The areas in the north east will rebound but it will take some time...they just have to lay off the does. Antler restrictions don't work...not even in Texas but taking care of your does...does powdr

ARs work because it helps the hunter realize that they don't have to shoot every antlered deer they see.

I can't see a spread restriction being very popular anywhere in the east or where deer are hunted in cover. Just about every deer I've killed I only had a window of seconds to see the deer id antlers and shoot. I'm just not successful getting them to turn head on so I can make sure they are 15" and not 14" or 14.5" and then get them to turn back broadside to present a clear shot at tne vitals. I can see a lot of folks say the heck with it if they start nailing people with $500 fines for shooting a deer that measures 1/2 inch too small.

Soon they'll tell you what gun and caliber you HAVE to shoot them with too.

Not so. In the absence of disease, predation, and/or competition, near any species can eat itself out of house and home ruining the habitat for many others as well.

We hear that argument from wild horse lovers out here all the time. Then the same crowd would be screaming for us to help all those poor starving horses out there.

My folks used to live among the highest density of deer in WVa. The forest supported a tree canopy and nothing else. Shrubs and forbs were nowhere to be seen and the population supported nothing but dinks.

Even with our low densities of deer and elk here in SE Oregon, they have an amazing impact on our plant communities. High fence a couple acres in our forest, come back in two years, and one will be amazed at the vegetation that can flourish with the absence of deer and elk.

Education not legislation.

Do you actually get satisfaction from getting a quick glimpse of a deer and realize its a buck and bang? I"m serious in that question. If my season was over that quickly I'd quit hunting.

But I understand what you mean.

of course...... there is a possibility, small though it might be, that a point or spread restriction COULD.. possibly, by chance, end up bumping the herd up and seeing more/larger/healthier deer and be able to watch and enjoy them some, instead of having to kill the first buck you see because lord forbid if you let him go your buddy might kill him or you might not even see another.

Yes I"m a smart ass.

When you are in Ak and the Moose of a lifetime pops out, what do you do? Stand around and admire him?

I suspect he gets more than a little actual satisfaction from Whitetails in the wood. Big wood Whitetail hunting rarely lends itself to I'll wait for the perfect shot, then take him in the head.

If I"ve already shot one that size, we take pictuers and let him walk...

Its kind of self policing without being regulated by the state.

I"m at the point on deer, where I"ll likely never kill a big buck again. I"ll get tehre on moose too, I"m just not that far along on the curve.

And after I killed the last moose in 2014, I still was out just watching looking and enjoying.

Big woods whitetails I only have experience of in the East Texas thickets, and I've yet to pop a round there at a deer that I didn't look at for some time first. Of course I don't have to kill a deer to be happy either.

BUT we are fortunate to also hunt a place where I can kill 4 deer, now 8 with my wife, without much effort, for the freezer. Lots of folks, unfortunatley, don't have that option.

Our local spread restriction, gives the option of killing a spike if you desire. That gives folks a quick meat option.

Much like moose, if you are a local, spike fork or 50 or over. Plus the bioligists there think the spike gene even in moose produces not as large a moose as paddle horn yearlings do eventually.

Obviously differing areas do things differently, and have different results though.

FWIW I"ve had either sex Elk tags. I"ve never killed an elk to this day. But I"ve passed legal but young promising bulls, looking for a cow mostly or a lifetime bull...Most would shoot the first legal one they saw.

What is the winter kill situation, if any, like in the proposed zones?

Please, we get it. You appreciate the outdoors and the hunting experience. It seems that by your repeatedly having to tell us, you imply you are special and the rest are lacking and hardly better than a bunch of bloodthirsty trigger pullers.

I've been to Ak twice, and while others who were also successful early made frantic efforts to get back home, I stayed the entire trip and enjoyed what I could of Ak. Helped out the outfitter a little getting ready for the next trip out and looked around. Doesn't make me special, but hey, I was liking Ak. I don't deserve a prize, but one was offered down the road.

Doesn't matter that you personally can kill 4. Most Eastern hunters can't, and the thread is about AR's in the East, so they best become good at what they can. And making quick decisions often is part of the game. Quitting hunting because the rules and opportunities don't suit them is a weak option.

For the most part, we agree on AR's, but getting off your high horse wouldn't be a bad idea.

I know you just want to be the best. I get it. Am I being a smart azz?

You seem to have trouble distinguishing the fact that not everyone is looking for antlers. Some are looking to fill a freezer and can't shoot a doe.

Not every state lets you shoot a pile of deer or has a long season to allow you to be picky about what deer you hunt if you're looking to eat them.

Keyboards must not convey.

If you only knew me in person, you'd not offer the words you do.

So we'll just leave it at that.

I don't know WHAT THE F*CK is so complicated about 'If you don't want to shoot a dink, don't shoot a fu*king dink' just don't tell me that I can't or shouldn't shoot one.

There are 2 choices when deer hunting, buck or doe, period.

You decide the size you want to shoot. Leave me the f*ck alone to do the same.

I'm new here,but not to deer hunting in NY. Lord willing this fall will be my 37th season. Been passing up 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks for over 20 years because I just wanted more challenge to my experience. Been mocked, laughed at and called an arrogant trophy hunter.
I have several thoughts on antler restrictions.
First I would love to see more mature bucks around to hunt. I feel it would add more excitement to hunting not just in bigger racks. More competition between bucks and a shorter more intense rut. By shorter I mean not having the breeding of does extending into a good part of the winter and therefore having as many late born fawns.

Second I don't like government intrusion and not crazy about them sticking there nose in to anything more than necessary. I'm not convinced that this is really a plot to discourage more hunters so as to " get the guns". You know the rest. Are there people out there with this agenda? Sure, are! I think this is more about getting an older age class of bucks out there to hunt than an antigun plot. I also know guys who have a limited time to hunt for meat and don't begrudge them anything. But in a couple of years the group of ,then legal bucks will be as big as the bucks that are legal now. There should be as many opportunities then at legal bucks.

Third I have had many a hunter say to me with disgust "you can't eat the horns ". I have one question for them. If you had a hot doe bring a group of bucks into range say a nice 1.5 year old 6 pt.at 30 yards and a big 4 year old 10 or 12 pt.at say 80 yards how many hunters would HONESTLY say that they would ignore the horns and take that easy young buck. Some would I have no doubt but not a majority.

My late father used to say that if you want to see the character of a man see what kind of a deer hunter he is. There will be some bad things that come of antler restrictions if approved. There are bad things about deer hunting now. Poaching, trespassing, greed etc.... IMO allowing these yearling bucks to live a year or two more will be much more positive than not.