Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Jim Zumbo's gone over to the Dark side

Somethin' went bad, but I fear it's Zumbo's noggin.

Here's what I just posted on the blog as a response:

Jim, I have been a faithful subscriber to Outdoor Life since 1969. Outdoor Life is the first magazine I remember picking up in a barber shop to read. My three sons were brought up reading Outdoor Life.

I cannot believe I'm reading this drivel from an editor of Outdoor Life.

I'm not really sure why you have such a problem with military-styled rifles in the woods. Around our house, we generally prefer other styles. However, my sons and I regularly hunt with rifles such as the M1 Garand, the Mini-14, the Mosin Nagant. Up until last year, one of my favorite deer rifles was a Remington 742.

What weapons are you really against? Military arms? Semi-auto? Black ones? Plastic stocks? Ones with a pistol grip? Detachable magazines? Should the 30-06 be banned from hunting, because it is a military round? The 223 Rem? The 308 Win? What body is going to decide what is a proper hunting tool? You?

Sitting in my basement right now is the darkest meanest killing machine the Good Lord ever inspired man to put on this earth. When you open it up and look into the action, it exudes an air of ultimate danger. For over 100 years, men have fought wars with these beasts. I've got a bunch of them. You do too. I'm talking about the Mauser action and all its derivatives. Take any one of them, look at it seriously, and you'll see the killing machine of its day. The action was built to kill men, not deer. The stock configuration is just a bobbed configuration of a military stock. This was the black weapon of its day. Keep going, and this is true of every rifle in your inventory and mine, right back to the smokepoles.

Look, my esthetics tell me I look foolish toting an AR-15 variant around in the woods, same as you. However,I'm not going to be foolish enough to tell others to keep them home. As soon as I do that, I open up the possibility that someone else is going to tell me my gun is ugly and that I need to keep it out of the woods, or that it needs to be registered as an ugly gun, or that I need to turn it in to the ugly gun authority, or that I need to wear a sign around my neck saying that I own an ugly gun.

I've got news for you Jim: Hunting is ugly. You go out in the woods, level the barrel at an animal, pull the trigger and rearrange its innards until it stops breathing. Then you gut it, skin it and eat it. We do it despite it being ugly. We probably do it, because it's ugly. I enjoy it. You enjoy it. A whole lot of us enjoy it, and that's how you earn a living and that's how Outdoor Life sells magazines.

At least until now. Somewhere along the way, Jim, you and your magazine lost touch with that reality. As of this writing, I swear to you that there will not be another Outdoor Life magazine read in this household until you are no longer associated with the magazine.

If you want me, you can find me. I post at the 24hourcampfire.com and several other online venues

Nice Reply, Shaman...

Yeah,, you have a much better way with words than me.

Jim must have been into the hubbely bubbely when he wrote than one. Either that, or that big wad of green he got from the green company screwed up his sensibilities.
One BIG demerit for Jimbo. Gimme 10 pushups Jim.

Don

This is what Time Warner owns. Note that outdoor life and field and stream are on the list. Jim Zumbo works for a radical socialist organization. These magazines tout that guns are only for hunting and target shooting. I strongly recommend everyone boycott these rags.


Time Warner - Books
Time Warner Book Group
Warner Books

The Mysterious Press

Warner Vision

Warner Business Books

Aspect

Warner Faith

Warner Treasures

TW Kids

Little, Brown and Company

Little, Brown Adult Trade

Little, Brown Books for Young Readers

Back Bay

Bulfinch Press

Time Warner Book Group UK

Time Warner Audio Books

Time Inc.

Southern Progress Corporation

Sunset Books

Oxmoor House

Leisure Arts

Time Warner - Cable
HBO

CNN

CNN International

CNN en Espanol

CNN Headline News

CNN Airport Network

CNN fn

CNN Radio

CNN Interactive

Court TV (with Liberty Media)

Time Warner Cable

Road Runner

New York 1 News (24 hour news channel devoted only to NYC)

Kablevision (53.75% - cable television in Hungary)
In Demand

Metro Sports (Kansas City)

Time Warner Inc. - Film & TV Production/Distribution
Warner Bros.

Warner Bros. Studios

Warner Bros. Television (production)

The WB Television Network

Warner Bros. Television Animation

Hanna - Barbera Cartoons

Telepictures Production

Witt - Thomas Productions

Castle Rock Entertainment

Warner Home Video

Warner Bros. Domestic Pay - TV

Warner Bros. Domestic Television Distribution

Warner Bros. International Television Distribution

The Warner Channel (Latin America, Asia - Pacific, Australia, Germ.)

Warner Bros. International Theaters (owns/operates multiplex theaters in over 12 countries)

Time Warner Inc. - Magazines
Time

Time Asia

Time Atlantic

Time Canada

Time Latin America

Time South Pacific

Time Money

Time For Kids

Fortune

All You

Business 2.0

Life

Sports Illustrated

Sports Illustrated International

SI for Kids

Inside Stuff

Money

Your Company

Your Future

People

Who Weekly (Australian edition)

People en Espa�ol

Teen People

Entertainment Weekly

EW Metro

The Ticket

In Style

Southern Living

Progressive Farmer

Southern Accents

Cooking Light

The Parent Group

Parenting

Baby Talk

Baby on the Way

This Old House

Sunset

Sunset Garden Guide

The Health Publishing Group

Health

Hippocrates

Coastal Living

Weight Watchers

Real Simple

Asiaweek (Asian news weekly)

President (Japanese business monthly)

Dancyu (Japanese cooking)

Wallpaper (U.K.)

Field & Stream

Freeze

Golf Magazine

Outdoor Life

Popular Science

Salt Water Sportsman

Ski

Skiing Magazine

Skiing Trade News

SNAP

Snowboard Life

Ride BMX

Today's Homeowner

TransWorld Skateboarding

TransWorld Snowboarding

Verge

Yachting Magazine

Warp

American Express Publishing Corporation (partial ownership/management)

Travel & Leisure

Food & Wine

Your Company

Departures

SkyGuide

Magazines listed under Warner Brothers label

DC Comics

Vertigo

Paradox

Milestone

Mad Magazine

Online Services
CompuServe Interactive Services

AOL Instant Messenger

AOL.com portal

Digital City

AOL Europe

ICQ

The Knot, Inc. - wedding content (8 % with QVC 36% and Hummer
WinbladFunds18%)

MapQuest.com - pending regulatory approval

Spinner.com

Winamp

DrKoop.com (10%)

Legend (49% - Internet service in China)

Time Warner - Online/Other Publishing
Road Runner

Warner Publisher Services

Time Distribution Services

American Family Publishers (50%)

Pathfinder

Africana.com

Time Warner - Merchandise/Retail
Warner Bros. Consumer Products
Theme Parks
Warner Brothers Recreation Enterprises (owns/operates international theme parks)
Time Warner Inc. - Turner Entertainment
Entertainment Networks
TBS Superstation

Turner Network Television (TNT)

Turner South

Cartoon Network

Turner Classic Movies

Cartoon Network in Europe

Cartoon Network in Latin America

TNT & Cartoon Network in Asia/Pacific
Film Production
New Line Cinema

Fine Line Features

Turner Original Productions
Sports
Atlanta Braves

Other Operations
Turner Learning

CNN Newsroom (daily news program for classrooms)

Turner Adventure Learning (electronic field trips for schools)

Turner Home Satellite

Turner Network Sales

Other
Netscape Communications

Netscape Netcenter portal

AOL MovieFone

iAmaze

Amazon.com (partial)

Quack.com

Streetmail (partial)

Switchboard (6%)

I just read Zumbo's comments. First of all, I think it seriously undermines his ability to be a serious hunting editor if he's somehow missed the ongoing trend of accurizing AR's for hunting, especially for prairie dogs. Secondly, I'm probably stating the obvious, but he did more damage than just to "black rifles" in my opinion. If you follow his "logic" (I use the term loosely), then we had better ban handguns too, since they have an extremely limited use in terms of hunting. Way to go, Jim. I'm sure you'll be having tea with Nancy & Hilary all too soon. Hope alienating hunters and shooters is worth it.

I don't know what dumb Jim is complaining about.

Ever since 1995 it's been possible to buy a factory off-the-shelf AR15 capable of 0.5 MOA accuracy, something which is impossible with any production bolt rifle erxcept for the $4,400 Tubb 2000, which copies many features from the AR15. AR15 shooters often or usually beat bolt rifle shooters in high-power rifle matches at 200, 300, and 600 yards.

Unlike a bolt rifle, you can drop a whole new upper assembly into the lower, if, say, your barrel starts to go south, in 30 seconds, without tightening any screws, and without affecting your zero in the slightest.

Reliability? I have about 10,000 rounds through AR15 target rifles without any malfunctions. Try that with a Remington 700 or an A-bolt.

As for the magazine, you only get a couple of shots at game no matter what. What's wrong with carrying 20 in the magazine instead of in your pocket?

I don't think Jim Zumbo knows very much about rifles.

Lets go further back than mausers... Wasnt the assault weapon of the day in the fledgling years of the US the brown bess(I'm no weapons historian) and no one thought twice of it. Hunting, protection etc... Much the same as the AR should be.

I'm sure he is a decent shot, but I'll guarantee I can shoot circles around him with my ARs any day any distance he'd choose. They are accurate and reliable. As to appearance, what happened to wood and blue? After that was lost, where do you draw the line as an idiot?

I hunt with an AR all the time. In a number of calibers. I'm so familiar with the weapons platform that I like it. I have run close to 20K rounds through them in one year in training. From 22 LR on up. Normally ran at least 8K on average plus dry firing. I'm used to the gun, it feels right. Why can't I use it? Why shouldn't I use it?

BTW I shoot rapid fire strings and matches with my AR due to match rules. In hunting I've NEVER fired more than one round out of my AR. Doesn't mean I'm switching to a Ruger #1 though....

Use what you like, its the indian, not the arrow. Fool.

Jeff

AR's are also a very popular choice for coyote hunters.We all have our work cut out for us, and the work of our children will be even greater! JZ is so self absorbed that he doesn't even realize the damage he causes when he scribes such drivel!

I like some bolt rifles, but not all of them. I like some lever rifles, but not all of them. I like some gas operated rifles but not all of them.

And I like having the second amendment so I can enjoy experiencing such a variety.

Mr. Zumbo seriously undermined his own credibility with these comments. For many years we have been preaching the need for the various disciplines of the shooting sports to put our differences aside for the good of the sport as a whole. Jim's comments set this process back immensely.
I'm sure he has his sponsors to appease, which is too bad, because he has obiously lost his ability judge things objectively. His comments drove a wedge between two groups of firearms enthusiasts who need each other's support. As the old saying goes, "united we stand, divided we fall."
Heck, I don't know-maybe he's got designs on running as Hillary's V.P. candidate.
Two things I know for sure. 1) I am cancelling my subscription to Outdoor Life. 2) It's time to buy another AR. There's six 'yote pelts hanging in the garage right now from the work of an AR. Maybe they didn't know no one ever hunts with one of these "assault rifles." Especially the one that fell to one well placed shot at 290 yards.

Zumbo's writing those comments is ludicrous coming from a gun/outdoor writer. Pure idiocy.

That being said, I have never owned an AR or an AK, and have absolutely no desire to. If I were a competition shooter I might go the AR route, but I know so little about them with regard to what's being done to "de-militarize" (used in terms of making them accurate and not to mean PC acceptable) them and make the sporter/civilian friendly for feild applications and the like. I do often question why some people are so in love with the gun I knew to be the little light 223 that rattles a lot, but maybe the answer to that question is "If I have to ask why I wouldn't understand the answer". Which is to say, they're just not my cup of tea...I handled them in the army and they hold no special place in my heart or mind. I know they're really tricking them out now. I do think that some, not all, have a desire in them to be "tactical" satisfied by carrying these things afield, they they attract a certain personality type in some cases, but thats just an opinion. That being said, they still have that right and should so long as they're set up for the hunting purpose at hand and using proper ammo.

The AR is my wife's favorite rifle-though she's never hunted with one. I've thought about getting her a 6.8 SPC upper for hunting whitetails.

While you are chewing on Mr. Zumbo, You might want to drop a line to Remington as well. They might be a little more concerned if they are reminded by many of us that their products and sponsorship of Mr. Zumbo is being mentioned in the same breath with which law abinding hunters and gun owners are being disparaged. It might have no visible effect in the near term, but maybe they will think a little more carefully next time.

Powerful words.

I'd bet Remmy wouldn't care that much. They are corporate America and don't sell anything ARish.... just a guess...

Jeff

Thanks for that list. We all need to be careful what we put into our heads, though it is harder and harder. I admit I don't pay enough attention to who is publishing what. I haven't read Field and Stream or Outdoor Life since I was a kid due to their wishy-washy approach to things and every article being entrance-level. There are some other mags on there though that I have read from time-to-time.

I agree very much with fact that, as hunters and shooters, we must stand united. There has been too many issues that we have been divided on such as the use of bait for deer or dogs for bears. Having said this, I'm still not at ease with the use of the 'assualt' rifles for hunting.
I know it is easy for me to say as I have no interest in them, I much prefer the look of wood and blue. I like to hunt with a nice classic rifle in lever, bolt or SS. I am not uneasy with the use of 'assualt' rifles because I feel 'holier than thou' and my use of a #1 is more sporting than the person who loves to hunt with their AR15.
If everything were the way I'd like it, we could all use our favorite arms without consequences. So what is the sources of my uneasiness? The fact that the future of our traditions is based in public perception. I'm sure PETA would love to have the image of 'hunters' imbedded into the public's mind as a bunch of assualt rifle carrying men waging war on the local wildlife populations.
Before I close, I want to make it clear that I don't have a problem with what you carry. To me a semi auto hunting rifle is no different than a semi auto 'assualt' looking rifle. As a matter of fact, my levers can fire a second aimed shot almost as fast a the AR15, I would think.The only actual difference is the image. Also, I hate the fact the public perception can be so important and that's all it is. Some that carry AR15's are, no doubt, better and more ethical than many carrying more traditional arms.
Please don't attack me for having these concerns, but I would like your reactions to my thoughts on the importance of public percetion.

Thanks Les for posting this, Jims gone to far on this one , I carry one most everday at work, but when Im in the field Ill take a Savage 99, or another vintage gun with me! John