Checked with the people running the 4-H trap program? We bought a year's supply for the price break which was passed on to the kids and included 28 ga. for a club gun. A portion of our grant money went to shells so the kids got a really good deal, and free shells for the state shoot if they went. Would've included a couple more flats of 28 ga. if we knew they'd be used. (Promo loads work fine for this, spendy shells don't add anything until you get to serious competition.)