Originally Posted by jfruser
it aint what you know, but what you know that aint so.

Originally Posted by clockwork_7mm_gator
Nope. A very small demographic of black slaveholsers existed. More importantly, they *did* discriminate concerning who *could* be enslaved.


if you mean that eventually laws were passed prohibiting blacks from owning white slaves, sure, you're correct. but that implies a littel something most folk have been trained to overlook...

Originally Posted by clockwork_7mm_gator

"The Constitution was originally said to be in effect after a certain number of the original states ratified it. At least two of those states--New York and New Jersey ratified it conditionally, the condition being they would be allowed to secede at any time."

This is entirely false. No such thing as conditional ratification. The document is ratified as passed or not. No middle.

Also, the Irish could not be sold as property. If there's a lower form of life than being property, that's news to me.


news: irish were sold as property in north america. usually at 1/4 the cost of black slaves for several reasons.

The irish were sold as property in n america. As were teh scottish and the english and some other euros. from the tip of florida up through canada. Roughly 2X the number of whites were sold into slavery relative to blacks until the end of the cw.

you have to seek out primary source material as the ruling class has deemed factual history unhelpful and has instead imposed new & improved & helpful (to the ruling class) narrative. to include myths such as blacks were the only sorts held in bondage/as chattel in na.

james lafond, though lacking in academic sophistication, has accumulated a rather large trove of primary source material. if you have an interest in this topic, lafond has written about 10 books on it of various structure: primary source narrative with commentary, nigh stright-up primary source material published in a book for the first time, Q&A, etc.

https://jameslafond.blogspot.com/p/plantation-america-bookstore.html
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Plantation America Bookstore
Plantation America is an exploration of the early history of the United States of America, which were not often called colonies at the time, but plantations. They were plantations of unfree people from Britain, Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. These slaves and servants were bought and sold at auction, beaten and cruelly used, and then their history was erased. James LaFond is working to restore a part of it here.



http://jameslafond.com/article.php?id=12030
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The reading order perhaps depends on your motive for reading it. Assuming a desire for general learning, I will make a reading order list with an exception out to the side:

#1 [volume 2]: American in Chains places Caucasian slavery in context with a chronology of slave ages and slavery events going back to the middle ages, and numerous reviews of African American slavery narratives. This is very accessible to someone who has not read a lot of history. This is the first volume an African American should read.

#2 [volume 3]: Into Wicked Company is the shortest and easiest to read and I would recommend it to people who find reading a burden. It provides more context for Stillbirth of a Nation and would be the first volume I'd give to a teenager or person who likes verse.

#3 [volume 1]: Stillbirth of a nation is the saga of thrice abducted Peter Williamson, and would be my first choice for a military man to read.

#4 [volume 4]: A Bright Shining lie at Dusk was an attempt to bundle a mess of errata on Plantation America and put it out as a companion to readers of volumes 1-3 in an attempt to wash my hands of the series. If you buy Crackerboy or The Greatest Lie Ever Sold on the site I'll send this to you for free. If you ask for it, I'll send it. I'm emailing you a copy. It is just a companion to the better-formed volumes.

#5 [volume 7] The Lies That Bind Us lays out the foundations for Plantation America via a study of The Magna Carta and is otherwise a mass of support material like A Bright Shining Lie at Dusk.

#6 [Volume 9] The Greatest Lie Ever Sold makes the case that American history is a lie stemming from the abdication of the English king at the signing of the Magna Carta. It is the op-ed companion to the annoatted litany of Crackerboy.

#7 [Volume 8]: Cracker-Boy is the one volume that needs to be read by anyone who would argue against the narrative mainstream in America which claims that only Africans can be owned as human property. If you only buy one Plantation America book, this is the one.

#8 [Volume 5] So Her Master May Have Her Again is the first read I recommend for women, looking at the specific economics of being a runaway broad in Plantation America.

#9 [volume 6] So His Master May Have Him Again is the one book you should give to a working class liberal ghost man and is all about the economics of being a broke-ass cracker-boy in the land of the wee and the home of the knave.
Note: Paleface, the white Indian history, will not be written. Rather each of the following books will have a paleface section on white Indians, who were very often escaped slaves.

#10: [volume 10]: American Spartacus is about the over 400 acts of slave revolt I have documented, along with various reviews of primary sources sketching the conditions and histories of some non-slave uprisings in the United States and earlier Plantations. It will be 2 volumes at about 1,000 pages and will probably replace Cracker-Boy as the best single source.

#11 [volume 11]: The Thirteenth Tribe is about religiously sanctioned slavery in America and focuses on Pennsylvania and New England the myth of the Christian abolitionist movement and the reality that every slave in America, no matter his race, was held in bondage according to Judeo-Christian law. This will be the most heavily weighted volume towards piracy and the white Indian situation.

#12 [volume 12] Plantation America: A history Denied will serve as an overview, an index, a list of corrections to mistakes in earlier volumes and will take the story of the runaway white boy into the realm of the mixed race runaway, as virtually every extant slave narrative by a runaway African American" was the story of a man who was at least half European.

Fiction: the novel Sold is complete and the sequel Bound is just started. I recommend Sold to anyone at any time in tis reading who would like more immediate texture and to anyone who just can't get through a history text. It is the real story of Thomas Hellier and two fictional composite characters patterned on Peter Williamson and other targets of the soul-drivers who staffed Plantation America in its misery with the toiling souls of the doomed and forgotten.






Sorry, but this is totally bogus. There is a huge body of actual scholarship about the slave trade and this ain't part of it. Were whites indentured in America before slavery became entrenched? Absolutely. Were they frequently treated poorly or scammed? Yes. Were they legally and culturally distinguished from slaves. Absolutely. Were Irishmen sold as slaves in North America and owned as chattel? Hard no. Think it through: if you're willing to cross the color line and enslave the Irish, the English have no reason to make the triangle trade a triangle. You'd just ship the Irish to the New World in chains and seize the land. But they didn't. Because they weren't interested in setting up a slippery slope of which white people weren't above slavery.

That's not to say the Irish were treated well, but crummy urban conditions and enslavement aren't remotely the same thing.

There were black slaveholders up to the point of emancipation in places like Louisiana and many Indian tribes also adopted race-based slavery to become "whiter" in southern society. None of this is really new...