Thank you. I'll try that. I did a little research on LOP. And it seems like something in the range of 13-1/2" seems to fit me good. Without a big jacket. 13" would probably work with thick clothes. If I got a youth model of some sort, I could probably put a spacer in or something. But I think 14" is probably too long. And the whole grip thing is obviously an issue. The mossberg is kind of thick and far away for my finger. I have this daisy BB gun that has like the best dimensions. It really feels good. Now if I can translate that to a shotgun. hehehehehhee.