Thanks for the great reply's people, I asked the question wrong and if you would read my new post here, it has a heading of<P>still no one has been able to answer this on 2 forums.<P> am just trying to find out basicaly which action is the most reliable and why and also does the winchester have the rail that the newer cz does not have anymore to keep it from jamming it goes into detail on the other post from a reply i received in hunt america.