I never dodged anything. I answered the questions thoroughly and to the best of the collective knowledge at the time. I'm sorry you don't understand that. Nor am I a troll or a tease. You've attacked me in the past and by your own words choose to "speak your mind" with little or no regard for dipomacy, tact or consideration. Given your past responses directed toward me in other threads it seemed apparent to me you were leading up to the same thing. And the fnags are showing already.
I have never chronographed an American manufactured, factory rifle cartridge. But to assume that I'm ignorant of their embellishment of the figures is more than a stretch. That their figures were inflated was established back in the 1950's. With the advent of home chronographs it isn't easy for them to get away with inflated figures.
I've read more than a few articles wherein the author had chronographed original British BPE cartridges. There are not a lot of them out there but enough articles exist to draw something of a conclusion. That and the few that I've done pretty much agree with their findings. That is that the British ammunition compaines were not very eager to inflate the velocities of their ammunition. Those loads chronographed have been quite close to published velocities. Pretty much the same held true from ammunition off the Continent.
The information for the cartridges listed is readily available today, as compared to when I started shooting them. To suggest otherwise simply doesn't hold with the evidence. At any rate, here are the factory loads most often listed.
11.15 X 60, (43 Mauser)
370 gr. lead bullet
77 grs. Fg
1430 fps
450 X 3 1/4
365 gr. lead bullet
120 gr
1750 fps
500 BPE
340 gr. PP lead bullet
136 gr.
1880 fps
I read this post this morning and didn't have time to look up my records and I haven't taken the time to look them up since I got home. I assure you they are in my "pile" somewhere and I will find them. When I do I will post the results I got.
Over the weekend I dug out all my Double Gun Journals and organized them into years and put them in those magazine holders so I could put them in my loading room. While doing so I browsed through a few issues and came upon one written by Sherman Bell in 2004. I read it because he was doing pressure tests on straight black loads, NFB loads with filler and duplex loads. In that article he stated that he had achieved regulation in an Alexander Henry, 450 X 3 1/4 double with straight black powder loads. He had to drop to a 300 gr. bullet to do it but that doesn't matter, it worked and that load is fine for anything in North America except for possibly the big bears. Mr. Bell has been shooting and studying doubles for something over 30 years and until that time had never been able to achieve regulation with black.. He was using KIK powder. He's ahead of me as I've yet to achieve regulation with straight black.
The thrust of the article was pressures with the loads mentioned. Again, duplex loads developed lower pressures than black or NFB loads. I don't remember exactly how much lower they were but 1 1/2 tons sticks in my mind.
Things change, evolve and products improve. I have to confess that I haven't done any BPE load development since before 2000. I worked up accurate, effective loads and use them still today. That will change soon as a recently arrived Cape gun in 43 Mauser X 16 bore is awaiting load development. I read and hear where todays powders are hotter, better. If that's true perhaps I should revisit my loads with newer black. Maybe regulation with straight black can be achieved now in more than an occasional double. If anything I've posted doesn't hold true with newer manufactured powders then I will stand corrected, today. I do know it was beyond the ability of black in the 1990's through 2000 to regulate in almost all doubles due to not generating enough velocity. As recently as last year it still wouldn't regulate in my 500 BPE.
