Exactly.... But what I would like to know if there is anyone that has had success shooting them in a stock rifle or a 8.5 in 1 twist rate before I spend money on something that won't shoot. If others have had success with it I would chance it. Some say 9 in 1 is good up to 130's. Others say 130's and under. Mine shoots 120's and 130's keyhole and will shoot 140's pretty well. Now my custom has a faster rate. And the 127 are smaller in gr than 130's and 140's. Just have not much experience with Barnes. If others have tried and they shoot... I am more inclined to try them. Being long I think they would be a great Whitetail bullet at any range.