Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
In an earlier post I stated the following:

Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter

The bullet choice isn't all that important, particularly at .30-06 velocities. Super accuracy is even less important. Put a bullet in the lungs and the elk will go down shortly.
...
My own choice of bullets, for many years, was Speer Grand Slams for my 7mm RM. Not very aerodynamic but accurate enough and they were hammers. These days I prefer North Fork SS, Barnes TTSX and Nosler AccuBonds for all my rifles. Two cows have gone straight down with a .30-06 and 165g North Forks, another with a 150g AccuBond.

If all I had was a C&C bullet, though, I'd use it and worry about other things. ...


That still stands true. Placement is king. That said, I choose tougher bullets because I worry more about what happens when things go south than when they go as planned. Dad gave me a Ruger American .30-06 last year, along with 4 boxes of Federal 165g Sierra GameKings and a box of Federal 165g Trophy Bonded Tip. Last weekend I had an opportunity to shoot both loads into water jugs.

Stick a GameKing in the lungs and elk will die, but take a look at the recovered 165g GameKing and 165g Trophy Bonded Tip bullets in the photo. Also look at the 225g .338 bullets, two cup-and-core Hornady SST bullets and one Nosler AccuBond.

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Here is another photo of bullets recovered from water jugs.
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Left to right:
4 jugs == .45-70, Sierra 200g FP .458" @ 2390fps, 81% weight retention (left group of five, front row center)
6 jugs == .45-70, Speer 300g Uni-Cor .458" @ 2247fps, 59.6% to 72.5% weight retention, 68.8% average (remainder of left group)
8 jugs == .45-70, Speer 350g FP .458" @ 2147fps, 87.6% weight retention
6 jugs == .45-70, North Fork 350g .458" @ 2189fps, 97.4% weight retention
9 jugs == .45-70, Cast Performance 460g WFNGC .458" @ 1812fps, 76.5% weight retention
5 jugs == .375 Winchester, Hornady 220g FP .375" @2230fps, 65.7% weight retention
7 jugs == .300 Win Mag, Barnes 180g MRX .308" @ 3100fps, 93.4% weight retention

In the image above, pay particular attention to the last bullet, a Barnes 180g MRX (similar to the TTSX but with a tungsten core in the caboose). It penetrated almost twice as many jugs as the .30-06 GameKing or Trophy Bonded. We have yet to recover an MRX or TTSX from deer, antelope or elk. I've taken three elk with AccuBonds (one with a .30-06/150g and two with a .338WM/225g) and all were compete pass-throughs. I don't expect pass-throughs will always be the case but I do expect them to hold together better than cup-and-core bullets, with deeper penetration the result.

If all you have is a bad angle on a fleeing and possibly wounded elk, which type of bullet construction would you rather trust - a standard cup-and-core or a bonded core (ala Trophy Bonded and AccuBond), or maybe a mono-metal like the Barnes TTSX?

For me there is no question. This fall I'll be hunting elk with the Ruger American Dad gave me last year. I had considered using the Sierra Game Kings because I had the 4 boxes Dad gave me. After trying them on water jugs I'll be using something else - perhaps the 165g Trophy Bonded Tip or .30-06 loads I already use, a 150g AccuBond, Barnes 168g TTSX or a 165g North Fork SS. In any case it will be something I trust won't come unglued on impact.




Lots of good info above.

However, the 165 Game King soft point is not the same as the 165gr HPBT. The 165gr HPBT has a significantly thicker jacket. Sierra's Techs confirmed this.

I have shot literally thousands of them, as they shoot so well in my Tikka .308s that I was actually using the projectile as my load for shooting rifle matches.

I have killed numerous Elk with the 165 gr HPBT Game King and not one needed a second shot. They are a little too heavily constructed for game such as coyotes, as they tend to pencil through. They work great for big bodied Mule Deer.

One negative thing: When loaded in a .308, out past 600 yards they really get blown around by the wind as compared to a Scenar for example. I have killed Muleys right at the 600 yard mark with them, but conditions were in my favor. Lots of kills in the low to mid 400s.

If I could choose just one proven load for my .308s to hunt Elk and Mule Deer with, it would be the 165 gr HPBT Game King, pushed by Varget.

THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

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