I know a guy who has a pre 64 whelen, but again it suffers for the same problem of no provinance. I have been round and round on this gun, and as I see it there are only two ways it could be orginal. One as said here it is a custom order form winchester, or two and I think this far more likely. It was a recalled 35 remington and some very smart individual had it rechambered into 35 whelen. I still want one but the price these guys are asking are just way too high for gun that while way cool, is just to hard to confirm.