Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Keith vs. O'Connor - the sequel

Dear Ken,
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<br>First of all, I wanted to check on how you've been doing. I didn't even know that you had been ill until well after you were on the mend. I must have been under a big rock down here in SE Arizona.
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<br>I read with great interest the debate over O'Connor vs. Keith. I'm sorry to be adding my two cents worth this late, but just came across the thread this morning and registered so I could add a word or two. I enjoyed your story on Elmer's flight. I had read his version of it somewhere in the past, but at the time, he knew nothing of the cause of the problem. Needles to say, it was a close call for the old boy. As I now recall, he didn't mention having to leave his hat on the plane though. I have a hard time conjuring up and image of him running around without his hat!!! Although I didn't know Elmer well, I did spend a few enjoyable hours chatting with him - well, mostly listening.
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<br>Of the two men, particularly later in life, there is no doubt that Elmer was the more personable. I have heard from numerous fellows that they found themselves in Salmon and just asked directions to Elmer's house. There, they were greeted like old friends and invited in for coffee. Jack, on the other hand, didn't particularly enjoy uninvited guests and rarely entertained them. Openly at least, Jack was the more ornery and crabby of the two men.
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<br>A friend of mine wrote me that he made a trip to Salmon, asked for directions, and showed up at Elmer's front door. When he knocked, he was shortly greeted by Elmer, hat and all, who invited him in. They had a good discussion for a couple hours. This same friend also made a trip to Lewiston. He stopped by Lolo Sporting Goods, asked for directions to O'Connor's house, and was told that a visit there was by invitation only. He tried writing to O'Connor, enclosing a SASE, but never got a response. Consequently, he never met the man.
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<br>It is clear that the personalities of the two men were considerably different and that Elmer was the friendlier to strangers than was Jack. On the personality scale, we would have to score one for Elmer Keith.
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<br>As to which was the better scribe, I don't think that there is any real doubt that O'Connor was the better writer. That should not be surprising as he was a Professor of Journalism at the University of Arizona (after teaching at what is now Northern Arizona University and Sul Ross University). He had a Masters degree from the University of Missouri and in additon to his success as an outdoor writer, was a successful novelist. Keith, on the other hand, was a rancher and guide who most likely never finished high school. Even so, he was a natural born storyteller. Realistically though, I think that in this contest, we would have to give the nod to O'Connor.
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<br>When discussing the beliefs and philosophies of each of the men, Terry Wieland's artricle posted by tenderfoot about says it all. There are too many variables for either to be totally correct or totally incorrect. It boils down to personal experience more than anything else. For the two or three of you out there that have read my stuff over the years, it is clear where I stand on the great debate. Personally, I think that their "debate" had far more to do with the personal rivalry between the two men than it ever did on anything else. It seems to continue today, and I believe for the same reason - only carried out by present day disciples of the two men.
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<br>In a recent issue of Field & Stream, Dave Petzal reviewed Anderson's book on O'Connor. He wrote, in part, "The man who was shooting editor of Outdoor Life magazine from 1937 to 1972 may indeed have been, as this book's title says, the best gun writer ever, and the most contradictory. He was a bully and a snob, contempuous of people in general and very probably of most of his readers. But if he liked you, he could be a loyal and generous friend. Although his lifetime bag of big game was huge, he did not relish killing, sometimes regretted doing it, and said so in print. He was a brilliant and prolific writer whose gifts stayed with him until the end of his life, and he was a man of indomitable common snese and honesty. O'Connor could make words dance. He could put magic into what he wrote about and explain the mysteries of shooting so that even the dullest could understand."
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<br>By the way, just for grins, O'Connor's last rifle was not a .270 or .30-06. It was, of all things, a .280 Remington.
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<br>Ken - I hope you are doing gangbusters.
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<br>Tom Turpin

greetings, tsquare,
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<br>great insight. thanks for sharing your experience and keeping the keith/o'connor flame alive.
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<br>as an aside, your book, 'modern customs guns,' is a true gem, and has inspired me to pickup the .270 win. mantle.
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<br>keep up the good work.
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<br>cheers,
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<br>te
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Fee, fie, fo, fum! I smell the blood of a Kentuckian! Who left the gates open?
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<br>Hi there, Colonel Tom! Good to hear from you! Missed you at the SHOT Show. What're you doing back in SE Arizona? I thought you'd gone back to Kentucky for good.
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<br>You're right, on every point, about Keith and O'Connor. For some of O'C's remarks about Elmer, read Editor Dave Brennan's page in the current The Accurate Rifle (where he repeats the report of an unnamed Montana reader who (a) happens to be one of my best friends here in the valley and (b) visited O'Connor and asked him some very good questions (including several not mentioned in the source I've just cited).
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<br>Personally, I consider my friend Elmer the "better man" in every meaningful aspect -- and O'Connor one of the three best writers whose works I grew-up on. (The others? Warren Page and Robert Ruark) Even the best friends of Jack and Eleanor O'Connor considered them extremely unpleasant to be around -- even in public. But there's no questioning O'Connor's skill as a writer, which is how we should FIRST regard him.

To T.E.,
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<br>Many thanks for the kudos and glad you liked the book. Have you seen the engraving book as well?
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<br>To Ken,
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<br>Did move back to KY for a couple years but learned early on that my wife couldn't live there. She was allergic to about everything that grows in the state. We had kept our house in Sierra Vista so as soon as the lease was up, we packed up and moved back. Next time I leave, it will be toes in the air!
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<br>Hope to see you in Orlando.
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<br>Tom

many thanks as well, tsquare, for your response.
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<br>your newest book, 'custom firearms engraving,' is rated even higher by the editiors of amazon.com than your seminal book, 'modern custom guns.'
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<br>as a certified 'book-worm', i tend to group book purchases together for cost-efficiency purposes, and will be sure to pickup a copy of the 'engraving' book on the next round.
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<br>as an aside, and imho, i think the rigby's, dakota's and well's of the world - not to mention the general shooting public - owe you a debt of gratitude for reinvigorating and championing custom rifles, in general, and the 'art of firearms,' in particular.
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<br>keep up the great work, and all the best in your hunting and literary exploits.
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<br>te
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